Want some myths debunked about M.D. vs D.O.

[Aviator97]

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Hey guys. So I'm a sophomore in high school who would like to become a dermatologist. Now, my goal is M.D., but just in case something happens along the way, I would like some information about D.O.; well, myths debunked about D.O. My dad tells me that D.O.'s "Do not have as many job opportunities, are where the medical school failures go, make less than a M.D., can't specialize, and are not respected." Now this is coming from an Indian parent so that should make his extreme reasoning a little more understandable hehe. Anyway, what I would like to know is:

1. Do D.O.'s have just as many job opportunities and openings as M.D.'s?

2. Is it really where the medical school failures go? (I know this isn't true, but would like some insight). I've heard its much easier to get into.

3. Do D.O.'s really make less money than M.D.'s? Now if its only a couple thousand less, thats no big deal. I mean salary isn't quite an issue because frankly, I'm sure they still get paid well!!! 🙂

4. D.O.'s can specialize correct? If not, thats going to be a little bit of a disappointment if something does happen along the way and I end up D.O. 🙁

5. D.O.'s are respected just as much as M.D.'s are right? Now, this isn't a big concern of mine, because I really don't care about this, but its good to know anyway.

The reason I say "in case something happens along the way" is because I am not, by any means, the brightest and smartest person out there. I would say I'm a little bit above average...maybe a good bit above average, but still nothing spectacular. I also seem to burn out FAST which obviously won't help at all. I would appreciate feedback on everything said here.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Uhh....no, your dad is completely wrong. The only thing with DO's is that they don't always get the specialties they want because some are designated for MD's. It is still possible to get the harder residencies, but I'm not entirely sure on their adversities. DO school is a tad bit easier to get in, but its not that huge of a drop-off, most people put it as their backup plan because it has lower stats to get in. In the past they were always battling each other. Nowadays the careers are on-par with one another and it's not a huge deal among colleagues.
Some MD's are arrogant jerks who think the two letters behind their name entitle them above everyone else. Those are the ones who discriminate against DO's, DPM's, DDS, whatever. For the most part, it is usually pretty chill.

How about instead of worrying about this, you try and finish high school and get into a college that is suitable for you. Its nice to have a goal eventually, but if you get to med school, you might realize derms is completely wrong for you (not to mention it is one of the hardest specialties to match into). Just concentrate on what's in front of you.I appreciate your enthusiasm, keep working hard and do your research. Make sure the career is right for you. I'm 1/4 Desi and I have friends/family who were pretty much forced into medicine by their parents. Sure they make good money, but they aren't too cheery, so take it slow. Read more on the forums and try to use the search function instead of posting for every little question you have. Best of luck!

Also, please ask your dad about going into podiatry and come back and post what he says. I'd love to hear it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Hey guys. So I'm a sophomore in high school who would like to become a dermatologist. Now, my goal is M.D., but just in case something happens along the way, I would like some information about D.O.; well, myths debunked about D.O. My dad tells me that D.O.'s "Do not have as many job opportunities, are where the medical school failures go, make less than a M.D., can't specialize, and are not respected." Now this is coming from an Indian parent so that should make his extreme reasoning a little more understandable hehe. Anyway, what I would like to know is:

1. Do D.O.'s have just as many job opportunities and openings as M.D.'s?

In almost all cases, jobs are offered to an individual and not the degree. However, there are still some bastions in this country which have little to no history of hiring a DO.

WIth the changes coming with combined accreditation and decreased ignorance about osteopathy, I suspect that will change. But right now there are probably a few places around the country which are less open to DOs.

2. Is it really where the medical school failures go? (I know this isn't true, but would like some insight). I've heard its much easier to get into.

On average, entrance exam scores and GPAs are lower for osteopathic schools, however, the best DO schools have rigorous entry standards which equate to allopathic schools. It is not MUCH easier to get into and I'm not sure that was ever the case. Smart students look at all avenues which allow them to reach their goals.

3. Do D.O.'s really make less money than M.D.'s? Now if its only a couple thousand less, thats no big deal. I mean salary isn't quite an issue because frankly, I'm sure they still get paid well!!! 🙂

Reimbursement is not tied to degree. My partner a DO, and I, an MD, make the exact same money for the exact same procedures, based on our contracts with insurance companies.

DOs may make less on average than MDs because traditionally more DOs gravitated toward lower paying specialties, but procedure for procedure, patient for patient, the pay is the same.

4. D.O.'s can specialize correct? If not, thats going to be a little bit of a disappointment if something does happen along the way and I end up D.O. 🙁

Yes they can. Currently there are fewer residency program slots in some DO specialties than there are MD ones, but remember, DOs can apply for both DO and MD residencies.

Being a DO and a specialist are not mutually exclusive. There are no specialties that I am aware of that are off limits to DOs.

5. D.O.'s are respected just as much as M.D.'s are right? Now, this isn't a big concern of mine, because I really don't care about this, but its good to know anyway.

That you may get some different opinions on. Patients who have seen and have a good experience with a DO, or those who are in the know about the educational requirements, respect them. However, I will tell you that I have, over the years, had patients tell me they preferred me because they did not want to see my partner because of her degree. So there are patients out there like that.

Then again, there are probably more patients who consider a PA or NP to be equivalent than a physician, so a lack of respect for physicians is across the board, regardless of the degree.

Your father wants the best for you; he is also repeating things that may not be currently true. My father tried to talk me out of medicine and most of what he was telling me (mind you, not a single person in my family was anywhere near a medical degree, or even a hospital for that matter) was complete BS. I don't know your father's background but I would suggest that you tell him that your goal is to be a doctor and that you will choose the most well rounded, accredited education you can possibly obtain and make him proud of you.

Hope that helps.

(BTW, your profile says you're in Philly; PCOM is one of the best programs out there).

 

[Aviator97]

Uhh....no, your dad is completely wrong. The only thing with DO's is that they don't always get the specialties they want because some are designated for MD's. It is still possible to get the harder residencies, but I'm not entirely sure on their adversities. DO school is a tad bit easier to get in, but its not that huge of a drop-off, most people put it as their backup plan because it has lower stats to get in. In the past they were always battling each other. Nowadays the careers are on-par with one another and it's not a huge deal among colleagues.
Some MD's are arrogant jerks who think the two letters behind their name entitle them above everyone else. Those are the ones who discriminate against DO's, DPM's, DDS, whatever. For the most part, it is usually pretty chill.

Ah okay thanks that helps to put me sort of at ease then.

How about instead of worrying about this, you try and finish high school and get into a college that is suitable for you. Its nice to have a goal eventually, but if you get to med school, you might realize derms is completely wrong for you (not to mention it is one of the hardest specialties to match into). Just concentrate on what's in front of you.I appreciate your enthusiasm, keep working hard and do your research. Make sure the career is right for you. I'm 1/4 Desi and I have friends/family who were pretty much forced into medicine by their parents. Sure they make good money, but they aren't too cheery, so take it slow. Read more on the forums and try to use the search function instead of posting for every little question you have. Best of luck!

Oh yeah I sure am trying to finish high school and get into a college suitable to me. Just doing a little bit of research so I know what to expect. Yeah I don't know of anyone who was forced into it, but all of my cousins younger than me are sort of being brainwashed to become a doctor because "thats the only path to success" according to my family. Me, on the other hand, I like biology, so it might be something I'm interested in. Sorry about the search function thing...I forgot to actually use that...😳

Also, please ask your dad about going into podiatry and come back and post what he says. I'd love to hear it.

Hahaha yep I sure will ask him and post back! 😀

In almost all cases, jobs are offered to an individual and not the degree. However, there are still some bastions in this country which have little to no history of hiring a DO.

WIth the changes coming with combined accreditation and decreased ignorance about osteopathy, I suspect that will change. But right now there are probably a few places around the country which are less open to DOs.



On average, entrance exam scores and GPAs are lower for osteopathic schools, however, the best DO schools have rigorous entry standards which equate to allopathic schools. It is not MUCH easier to get into and I'm not sure that was ever the case. Smart students look at all avenues which allow them to reach their goals.



Reimbursement is not tied to degree. My partner a DO, and I, an MD, make the exact same money for the exact same procedures, based on our contracts with insurance companies.

DOs may make less on average than MDs because traditionally more DOs gravitated toward lower paying specialties, but procedure for procedure, patient for patient, the pay is the same.




Yes they can. Currently there are fewer residency program slots in some DO specialties than there are MD ones, but remember, DOs can apply for both DO and MD residencies.

Being a DO and a specialist are not mutually exclusive. There are no specialties that I am aware of that are off limits to DOs.



That you may get some different opinions on. Patients who have seen and have a good experience with a DO, or those who are in the know about the educational requirements, respect them. However, I will tell you that I have, over the years, had patients tell me they preferred me because they did not want to see my partner because of her degree. So there are patients out there like that.

Then again, there are probably more patients who consider a PA or NP to be equivalent than a physician, so a lack of respect for physicians is across the board, regardless of the degree.

Ah okay cool thanks for the reply! That also helps greatly to clear things up.

Your father wants the best for you; he is also repeating things that may not be currently true. My father tried to talk me out of medicine and most of what he was telling me (mind you, not a single person in my family was anywhere near a medical degree, or even a hospital for that matter) was complete BS. I don't know your father's background but I would suggest that you tell him that your goal is to be a doctor and that you will choose the most well rounded, accredited education you can possibly obtain and make him proud of you.

Hope that helps.

Yeah my father is doing basically the same thing as your father. He's basically just completely BSing things, but the thing he emphasizes most is money....like everybody else in my family. My father is nowhere near medical or hospitals either...hes in IT (Network Engineering) so thats the complete opposite!

(BTW, your profile says you're in Philly; PCOM is one of the best programs out there).

Cool thanks I will look that up!

 

[Arijos0222]

Hey guys. So I'm a sophomore in high school who would like to become a dermatologist. Now, my goal is M.D., but just in case something happens along the way, I would like some information about D.O.; well, myths debunked about D.O. My dad tells me that D.O.'s "Do not have as many job opportunities, are where the medical school failures go, make less than a M.D., can't specialize, and are not respected." Now this is coming from an Indian parent so that should make his extreme reasoning a little more understandable hehe. Anyway, what I would like to know is:

1. Do D.O.'s have just as many job opportunities and openings as M.D.'s?

2. Is it really where the medical school failures go? (I know this isn't true, but would like some insight). I've heard its much easier to get into.

3. Do D.O.'s really make less money than M.D.'s? Now if its only a couple thousand less, thats no big deal. I mean salary isn't quite an issue because frankly, I'm sure they still get paid well!!! 🙂

4. D.O.'s can specialize correct? If not, thats going to be a little bit of a disappointment if something does happen along the way and I end up D.O. 🙁

5. D.O.'s are respected just as much as M.D.'s are right? Now, this isn't a big concern of mine, because I really don't care about this, but its good to know anyway.

The reason I say "in case something happens along the way" is because I am not, by any means, the brightest and smartest person out there. I would say I'm a little bit above average...maybe a good bit above average, but still nothing spectacular. I also seem to burn out FAST which obviously won't help at all. I would appreciate feedback on everything said here.

Don't bank on becoming a physician, a dermatologist, or anything right now. Just focus on your next bio quiz

But in all seriousness, just think about finding what you want to do. You may want to be a Doctor one day, and enjoy the idea of another field or healthcare position (Dentistry and Podiatry come to mind)

My mother is having a disk decompression by an Orthopedic Spine Surgeon of whom has a D.O. degree, and that specialty is extremely hard to get into, especially the fellowship.

Btw, i'm laughing at your choice of words.

Debunked

 

[iforget2]

Lol don't worry too much about all this until maybe halfway through college and you can take a look at your GPA and see where you stand. Just make sure you get into a cheap, decent college first.

 

[gdfernan]

One critical difference between the two is that US MDs can basically practice medicine anywhere in the world (after appropriate licensing), but US DOs are not allowed to practice in many foreign countries.

 

[Law2Doc]

One critical difference between the two is that US MDs can basically practice medicine anywhere in the world (after appropriate licensing), but US DOs are not allowed to practice in many foreign countries.

If you attend med school in the US, you really aren't going to be interested in or trained for practicing in foreign countries.

 

[Dharma]

One critical difference between the two is that US MDs can basically practice medicine anywhere in the world (after appropriate licensing), but US DOs are not allowed to practice in many foreign countries.

Far from critical... VERY far! Actually DOs can practice in MANY foreign countries, albeit a FEW less than MDs. I hate to pull the wiki link move, but scroll down to see the list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine

That said, regardless of degree type, it is actually quite difficult to become licensed in most foreign countries, i.e. plenty of hoops to jump through which may not be worth it. The common response is that if you want the international experience there are always groups like Doctors Without Borders, where MD or DO will do just fine.

Law2Doc pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

[Medstart108]

Hey guys. So I'm a sophomore in high school who would like to become a dermatologist. Now, my goal is M.D., but just in case something happens along the way, I would like some information about D.O.; well, myths debunked about D.O. My dad tells me that D.O.'s "Do not have as many job opportunities, are where the medical school failures go, make less than a M.D., can't specialize, and are not respected." Now this is coming from an Indian parent so that should make his extreme reasoning a little more understandable hehe. Anyway, what I would like to know is:

1. Do D.O.'s have just as many job opportunities and openings as M.D.'s?

2. Is it really where the medical school failures go? (I know this isn't true, but would like some insight). I've heard its much easier to get into.

3. Do D.O.'s really make less money than M.D.'s? Now if its only a couple thousand less, thats no big deal. I mean salary isn't quite an issue because frankly, I'm sure they still get paid well!!! 🙂

4. D.O.'s can specialize correct? If not, thats going to be a little bit of a disappointment if something does happen along the way and I end up D.O. 🙁

5. D.O.'s are respected just as much as M.D.'s are right? Now, this isn't a big concern of mine, because I really don't care about this, but its good to know anyway.

The reason I say "in case something happens along the way" is because I am not, by any means, the brightest and smartest person out there. I would say I'm a little bit above average...maybe a good bit above average, but still nothing spectacular. I also seem to burn out FAST which obviously won't help at all. I would appreciate feedback on everything said here.

The fact is D.O.'s are questioned about their qualifications more than M.D. If you think about the general public, most of them don't know what a D.O. degree means, but they know what an M.D. degree is and this is because the media often uses the term doctor and M.D. interchangeably. Think about shows like House M.D. or Emily Owens M.D. The title says M.D. and not D.O.

So yes, if you choose D.O. be prepared to be questioned more often because of your degree. Whether you like it or not, as a D.O. you will always be labelled and stereotyped, kind of like a racial minority. 90% of people won't treat you any different, but 10% will.

This really is the elephant in the room and i've read many posts on how D.O = M.D. and for most purposes this is true, but the reality is, D.O. is less well known and D.O. carriers the reputation of "couldn't get into M.D." and that will burden you. Its up to you to fight it, but if you don't want that label, don't go to D.O. its as simple as that.

 

[Law2Doc]

... but the reality is, D.O. is less well known and D.O. carriers the reputation of "couldn't get into M.D." and that will burden you. Its up to you to fight it, but if you don't want that label, don't go to D.O. its as simple as that.

sure, but if you, in fact, couldn't get into an MD program and still end up a practicing physician at the same place, aren't you kind of getting the last laugh?

 

[Dharma]

The fact is D.O.'s are questioned about their qualifications more than M.D. If you think about the general public, most of them don't know what a D.O. degree means, but they know what an M.D. degree is and this is because the media often uses the term doctor and M.D. interchangeably. Think about shows like House M.D. or Emily Owens M.D. The title says M.D. and not D.O.

So yes, if you choose D.O. be prepared to be questioned more often because of your degree. Whether you like it or not, as a D.O. you will always be labelled and stereotyped, kind of like a racial minority. 90% of people won't treat you any different, but 10% will.

This really is the elephant in the room and i've read many posts on how D.O = M.D. and for most purposes this is true, but the reality is, D.O. is less well known and D.O. carriers the reputation of "couldn't get into M.D." and that will burden you. Its up to you to fight it, but if you don't want that label, don't go to D.O. its as simple as that.

Did you really just bring up House? Wow...

No offense, but ^this is the typical pre-med response. And you're basing this off... experience? No. More like speculation and hearsay. It would be nice to see the perpetuation of uniformed responses come to a halt, but then again, this is SDN, the great battlefield of MD vs DO... but back in the real world, these matters are trivial. People are too busy worrying about getting better (patients) or helping them get better (physicians) to really care.

DO attendings are rarely asked about their credentials. A vast majority of the time, the general public has no concern for such matters. 10%? Doubt it. By the way, where did you find this statistic? Source?

That said, the obstacles that will be encountered MAY be when it comes to landing a residency at the more competitive programs (e.g. Johns Hopkins) and sometimes in more competitive fields (e.g. ACGME Derm), where very few (if any) DO's have broken through. Of course, there are plenty of solid and competitive programs (e.g. Cleveland Clinic) with DO's on their match list.

OP I'd recommend speaking with MD and DO physicians. Shadow and get a glimpse of reality and don't be afraid to ask questions. Observe the difference in opinions according to fields, generation, location (if possible), etc. Skewed opinions coming from folks without firsthand experience in such matters may not be the best source to base a decision on.

 

[HughMyron]

1. Do D.O.'s have just as many job opportunities and openings as M.D.'s?

Unless you are desperate to get into something like academia, Derm, Rad Onc, VascSu, NeuSu, etc, then yes, you will be fine.


2. Is it really where the medical school failures go? (I know this isn't true, but would like some insight). I've heard its much easier to get into.

Let's be honest, medical school is the most difficult professional school to enter in the country. Of everyone who says they are "premed," less than 10% will make it to med school. There's a LOT of med school "failures." That doesn't make them any less of people. And I know you're only 15, but you should be prepared for the fact that you picked a tough road to follow. It's hard in college, and it only gets harder from that point out.

Anyways, it's an open secret that people at DO schools have lower scores/grades than MDs, and some of them couldn't get into MD schools. It doesn't make a difference. They learn the same stuff, and they still become great physicians.


3. Do D.O.'s really make less money than M.D.'s? Now if its only a couple thousand less, thats no big deal. I mean salary isn't quite an issue because frankly, I'm sure they still get paid well!!! 🙂

Not if they do the same work. The only reason they make less money is that many gravitate towards lower paying specialties.


4. D.O.'s can specialize correct? If not, thats going to be a little bit of a disappointment if something does happen along the way and I end up D.O. 🙁

Yes...


5. D.O.'s are respected just as much as M.D.'s are right? Now, this isn't a big concern of mine, because I really don't care about this, but its good to know anyway.

Yes. The only people that give a crap are academics and douchebags.


The reason I say "in case something happens along the way" is because I am not, by any means, the brightest and smartest person out there. I would say I'm a little bit above average...maybe a good bit above average, but still nothing spectacular. I also seem to burn out FAST which obviously won't help at all. I would appreciate feedback on everything said here.

Sometimes the hardest thing in the world to do is to believe in yourself.

Background: I am going to a US MD school this August, but I am a lower stat applicant who considered many DO schools.

 

[nysegop]

1. Do D.O.'s have just as many job opportunities and openings as M.D.'s?

2. Is it really where the medical school failures go? (I know this isn't true, but would like some insight). I've heard its much easier to get into.

3. Do D.O.'s really make less money than M.D.'s? Now if its only a couple thousand less, thats no big deal. I mean salary isn't quite an issue because frankly, I'm sure they still get paid well!!! 🙂

4. D.O.'s can specialize correct? If not, thats going to be a little bit of a disappointment if something does happen along the way and I end up D.O. 🙁

5. D.O.'s are respected just as much as M.D.'s are right? Now, this isn't a big concern of mine, because I really don't care about this, but its good to know anyway.

1. Yes. I have never heard of a hospital giving preference to either degree. Actually I just did a google search and found one hospital that only allows DOs:
http://www.westviewhospital.org

2. No, absolutely not. They have fewer applicants so they don't need to be as selective as MD schools. Keep in mind that the DO school is virtually the same as the MD school except the DO students have to do EXTRA.

3. First of all, all doctors, osteopathic or allopathic are going to be making a lot of money anyway, so what difference does it make? Also, if you do well in osteopathic medical school, and get a good residency and board certification there will be no difference in pay.

4. Of course. DO graduates do residencies just as MD students do. They also get board certified by the same organizations that certify MD grads. Specialization is not dictated by degree, it is a result of what residency you choose to do.

5. Yes.

 

[Winged Scapula]

3. First of all, all doctors, osteopathic or allopathic are going to be making a lot of money anyway, so what difference does it make? Also, if you do well in osteopathic medical school, and get a good residency and board certification there will be no difference in pay.

For clarification, pay has relatively little to nothing to do with where you do residency or being board certified. Reimbursement is based on CPT and E&M codes which do not change with regards to degree/residency/BC.

4. Of course. DO graduates do residencies just as MD students do. They also get board certified by the same organizations that certify MD grads.

Osteopathic and allopathic residencies have different boards. For example, if you complete an ACGME surgery residency and pass your exams, you will be Board Certified by the American Board of Surgery. This is the case for both MDs and DOs that complete ACGME residencies.

If you complete an Osteopathic surgery residency and pass your exams, you will be Board Certified by the American Osteopathic Board of Surgery. At this time, only available to DOs completing an osteopathic residency.

So not the same organizations (but still equivalent).