Wanting to end up in Austin - better residency UTSW or S&W

[trophyhusband]

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My wife and I had never been to Austin before this interview season and we loved it (doesn't just about everybody though?). Now we're trying to figure out what would be the best residency option to get there.

My wife feels that she has a strong chance of matching at either UTSW or Scott & White and she really likes both programs. The interesting thing is that where one program is weak the other program is strong and vice versa. So we're having a really hard time putting one above the other. Now we're trying to determine which program will give us the best chance to end up in Austin.

It seems that UTSW has more name brand recognition in the world of pysch and with UTSW taking over the Austin Medical Education Program that may provide job opportunities for someone who trained at UTSW. On the other hand Scott & White is closer to Austin (though not by much) and it would seem that the program might have stronger ties to the area.

Can anyone provide additional insight? For what it's worth my wife will most likely be pursing C&A if that helps any.

P.S. We realize that a lot of people would love to live in Austin and the job market might be a bit tight, we're just trying to position ourselves as best we can at this time.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Honestly, I'd go for UTSW since living in Temple would be a pretty huge negative for me. Also, UTSW does have more name recognition, and I'm sure a good number of their grads have wanted to go to Austin, so they're probably well known there. Austin's not the east coast or anything, but it's a town where education and prestige are probably valued more than the rest of Texas, so my guess would be a bigger name would help you in their market.

Also, I don't know how tight the physician market in Austin is. It's been growing pretty rapidly, and people = doctor jobs. It's more expensive than the rest of Texas and doesn't have any residency programs in anything, so I would guess they still aren't meeting their physician needs. Austin is maybe desirable for the region, but it's still not going to have the same draw as the coasts will.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Are you debating between UTSW-Dallas and Temple or UTSW-Austin and Temple? You mention AMEP, UTSW, and AMEP becoming UTSW so I got confused.

If you are aiming to work in Austin, I would really consider the UTSW-Austin program. I talked to the residents at the program, and they mentioned that they are getting numerous job offers from the area. It makes sense. You would already know everyone in the area.

With that said, one of the faculty I interviewed with at UTSW-Austin came from Temple.

I think you could get into the job market there from any program, but UTSW-Austin would make it easiest.

 

[trophyhusband]

Are you debating between UTSW-Dallas and Temple or UTSW-Austin and Temple? You mention AMEP, UTSW, and AMEP becoming UTSW so I got confused.

If you are aiming to work in Austin, I would really consider the UTSW-Austin program. I talked to the residents at the program, and they mentioned that they are getting numerous job offers from the area. It makes sense. You would already know everyone in the area.

With that said, one of the faculty I interviewed with at UTSW-Austin came from Temple.

I think you could get into the job market there from any program, but UTSW-Austin would make it easiest.

Sorry, we are debating about UTSW-Dallas and Temple. I was just saying with UTSW taking over the Austin program maybe that would create some job opportunities for residents from UTSW-Dallas.

Also, as far as living in Temple is concerned it's not that big of a deal to us. Neither city is our ideal living situation and living in Temple would allow us to put $500-$600 more a month towards my wife's loans due to much lower housing costs. Dallas has more to do but either would be fine for 3 to 5 years (depending on what happens with a C&A fellowship).

 

[Doc Samson]

Sorry, we are debating about UTSW-Dallas and Temple. I was just saying with UTSW taking over the Austin program maybe that would create some job opportunities for residents from UTSW-Dallas.

Also, as far as living in Temple is concerned it's not that big of a deal to us. Neither city is our ideal living situation and living in Temple would allow us to put $500-$600 more a month towards my wife's loans due to much lower housing costs. Dallas has more to do but either would be fine for 3 to 5 years (depending on what happens with a C&A fellowship).

Based on my own experience, there is something to be gained from coming from an outside program to your 1st job out of training. You don't have to deal with people (read: nurses) telling you that they "remember you when you were just...", you have a slightly better hand in negotiations (signing bonus, moving allowance, housing allowance), etc. If you're perceived as coming from a "more prestigious" location, then there's also some mystique that comes with that. Not saying these things are the be-all/end-all, but certainly variables that should be considered in your calculus.

 

[daru1]

Also, I don't know how tight the physician market in Austin is. It's been growing pretty rapidly, and people = doctor jobs. It's more expensive than the rest of Texas and doesn't have any residency programs in anything, so I would guess they still aren't meeting their physician needs. Austin is maybe desirable for the region, but it's still not going to have the same draw as the coasts will.

I'd like to make a correction to this. UTSW has taken over all the programs here. Austin has a lot of residency programs, IM, Psych, FP, Surgery, Transistional, Prelim, Pedi, etc...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I'd like to make a correction to this. UTSW has taken over all the programs here. Austin has a lot of residency programs, IM, Psych, FP, Surgery, Transistional, Prelim, Pedi, etc...

It does, but my understanding is that the programs there are still fairly small -- they're certainly not big enough to meet Austin's physician needs.

Wasn't there some talk at some time about starting a medical school in Austin?

 

[daru1]

It does, but my understanding is that the programs there are still fairly small -- they're certainly not big enough to meet Austin's physician needs.

Wasn't there some talk at some time about starting a medical school in Austin?

Your first statement is misinformed. There are residency programs here in a variety of fields. More to the point, there have been increases in most programs' spots over the last couple of years, and none have had decreases in spots. As in many metro areas with university/academic-based programs in our country, there are a shortage in physicians in some fields, and not in others. Psychiatry has a shortage for medicare/medicaid patients, it is a good market if you'd like to set up cash-only or even take insurance.

As for the medical school, now that UTSW has taken over, and UTMB is out of the picture for residency training in Austin, the UT regents have made it clear their intention to build a medical school in Austin. There is one that just opened in December in Round Rock (A&M). UT has to struggle with trying to also build a medical school in the Valley -- see this weekend's article in the Austin American Statesman for more details.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Your first statement is misinformed. There are residency programs here in a variety of fields. More to the point, there have been increases in most programs' spots over the last couple of years, and none have had decreases in spots. As in many metro areas with university/academic-based programs in our country, there are a shortage in physicians in some fields, and not in others. Psychiatry has a shortage for medicare/medicaid patients, it is a good market if you'd like to set up cash-only or even take insurance.

As for the medical school, now that UTSW has taken over, and UTMB is out of the picture for residency training in Austin, the UT regents have made it clear their intention to build a medical school in Austin. There is one that just opened in December in Round Rock (A&M). UT has to struggle with trying to also build a medical school in the Valley -- see this weekend's article in the Austin American Statesman for more details.

Well, I know there are residency programs in all these things. But none of them are huge residency programs, and probably per capita Austin is behind on residents trained per person, so they're going to need to recruit people outside of the Austin training programs. My guess would be that all the new Austin psychiatry jobs aren't going to be filled by recent Austin psychiatry graduates. However, yeah, if practicing in Austin is your main goal, training there makes sense. I'd still suspect the main UTSW will open almost as many doors, though.

And on all this stuff, what's up with UTMB? I thought the move into the Austin market was a positive thing for them and am a little sad that they're moving out. If I'm remembering correctly, they only took over the Austin residencies a few years before the hurricane. I think UTMB has an important history in Texas, and I hope they're still able to thrive.

 

[TexasPhysician]

And on all this stuff, what's up with UTMB? I thought the move into the Austin market was a positive thing for them and am a little sad that they're moving out. If I'm remembering correctly, they only took over the Austin residencies a few years before the hurricane. I think UTMB has an important history in Texas, and I hope they're still able to thrive.

UTMB was still "in process" of taking over the Austin programs when the hurricane hit as I understand it. The psych program for example was never officially a UTMB program that I am aware of. They switched from AMEP to UTSW-Austin not UTMB-Austin to UTSW-Austin.

The UTMB school is still in good shape, and the many people I know there are still very happy with their training. However, UTMB plans to be undergoing construction for at least the next 10 years. Money has already been set aside to make it bigger and better than ever before. Still, it is very hard to build up a second residency center hours away when you are in a steady state of rebuilding yourself.

UTMB isn't going anywhere but up......they just won't be building out (like to Austin) anytime soon.

 

[trophyhusband]

Based on my own experience, there is something to be gained from coming from an outside program to your 1st job out of training. You don't have to deal with people (read: nurses) telling you that they "remember you when you were just...", you have a slightly better hand in negotiations (signing bonus, moving allowance, housing allowance), etc. If you're perceived as coming from a "more prestigious" location, then there's also some mystique that comes with that. Not saying these things are the be-all/end-all, but certainly variables that should be considered in your calculus.

Much appreciated Doc Samson. I would think that coming from a "more prestigious" program could also allow for a slightly better hand in negotiations as well. *Sigh* I thought that I was done with all of this stuff when I graduated and found my first job... At least I have these experiences to help guide my wife I guess. It also helps that I have a business background... it amazes me how little med school teaches students about the business/management aspect of being a physician (or even of being a resident for that matter). Thanks again.

 

[Doc Samson]

Much appreciated Doc Samson. I would think that coming from a "more prestigious" program could also allow for a slightly better hand in negotiations as well. *Sigh* I thought that I was done with all of this stuff when I graduated and found my first job... At least I have these experiences to help guide my wife I guess. It also helps that I have a business background... it amazes me how little med school teaches students about the business/management aspect of being a physician (or even of being a resident for that matter). Thanks again.

My residency had a 4th year course on transition to practice which basically taught us the financial and negotiation aspects of finding a job. Very handy info when it came to negotiating my 1st and 2nd jobs out of training.

 

[psychotrope]

My wife and I had never been to Austin before this interview season and we loved it (doesn't just about everybody though?). Now we're trying to figure out what would be the best residency option to get there.

My wife feels that she has a strong chance of matching at either UTSW or Scott & White and she really likes both programs. The interesting thing is that where one program is weak the other program is strong and vice versa..

these two programs are completely different. What does your wife see herself eventually doing?

utsw is obviously by far the better program with respect to rankings, reputation, etc....

does your wife care about those things?

I would rather live in temple(a very very very down home town) than dallas, but I suspect some would rather live in dallas....again, thats another huge point. Would you prefer living in a small town or a large city?

 

[trophyhusband]

these two programs are completely different. What does your wife see herself eventually doing?

utsw is obviously by far the better program with respect to rankings, reputation, etc....

does your wife care about those things?

I would rather live in temple(a very very very down home town) than dallas, but I suspect some would rather live in dallas....again, thats another huge point. Would you prefer living in a small town or a large city?

Yeah, they are rather different. Like I said though they provide different aspects that make them hard for us to rank one over the other.

Temple offers the outline of what she wants to do and she can fill in where needed through moonlighting opportunities in Austin. UTSW-Dallas provides everything internally as well as some additional areas of interest that she may decide to pursue.

The Dallas vs. Temple thing isn't a make or break thing for us either way we've lived in both large cities and fairly small towns. If I didn't work from home the traffic issue (I've grown very tired of traffic over the past few years) might push me towards Temple but then again if I didn't work from home I would need to try to find a job in Temple....

We spent a couple of days in Austin and really enjoyed it. Now it was only a couple of days and we might be a little pie in the sky about it right now. But the ability for my wife to easily find a job in Austin could be a factor that puts one program over the top. It sounds like either would get us there so it's back to splitting hairs...

Thanks for the thoughts and opinions everyone!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Yeah, they are rather different. Like I said though they provide different aspects that make them hard for us to rank one over the other.

Temple offers the outline of what she wants to do and she can fill in where needed through moonlighting opportunities in Austin. UTSW-Dallas provides everything internally as well as some additional areas of interest that she may decide to pursue.

The Dallas vs. Temple thing isn't a make or break thing for us either way we've lived in both large cities and fairly small towns. If I didn't work from home the traffic issue (I've grown very tired of traffic over the past few years) might push me towards Temple but then again if I didn't work from home I would need to try to find a job in Temple....

We spent a couple of days in Austin and really enjoyed it. Now it was only a couple of days and we might be a little pie in the sky about it right now. But the ability for my wife to easily find a job in Austin could be a factor that puts one program over the top. It sounds like either would get us there so it's back to splitting hairs...

Thanks for the thoughts and opinions everyone!

I'm still voting for UTSW. IMO, having to go to Austin to moonlight to get experience isn't equivalent to having it in-house. Also, what if you change your mind on this whole Austin deal -- lots of people like Austin, but you've only spent a few days there. Personally, I liked Austin until I moved there -- there are some significant downsides to being there that might wind up making it seem less ideal later (bad traffic, horrible summers, kinda unfriendly vibe). I'd be really surprised if S&W brought any extra benefit to the job hunt in Austin, and UTSW will help you more with jobs anywhere outside of central Texas.

 

[TX515]

Your wife will be able to find a job in Austin graduating from either program, and pretty much any other city in the state you can think of. Psych is in huge demand here in TX.

 

[trophyhusband]

Your wife will be able to find a job in Austin graduating from either program, and pretty much any other city in the state you can think of. Psych is in huge demand here in TX.

Thanks, we chose S&W as she just felt more comfortable there and the program setup is more in-line with her learning style (and we decided we're just not Dallas people). It's our #2 program overall.

Thanks for all the thoughts/opinions everyone!

 

[TX515]

Scott White is a great place to train, friendly people, Temple as a whole, not just Scott and White. Know many classmates including myself will be ranking it highly.

 

[daru1]

We look forward to seeing both you and your wife around the campfire in a couple of years!

 

[trophyhusband]

We look forward to seeing both you and your wife around the campfire in a couple of years!

? Aren't you at UTSW-Austin? I'm not sure how to interpret this... is there something that S&W and UTSW-Austin do in concert with one another (resident retreat or something)? Or is this just more of a friendly welcome to Austin thing? I'm really intrigued... and thank you!

 

[psychotrope]

I'm still voting for UTSW. IMO, having to go to Austin to moonlight to get experience isn't equivalent to having it in-house. Also, what if you change your mind on this whole Austin deal -- lots of people like Austin, but you've only spent a few days there. Personally, I liked Austin until I moved there -- there are some significant downsides to being there that might wind up making it seem less ideal later (bad traffic, horrible summers, kinda unfriendly vibe). I'd be really surprised if S&W brought any extra benefit to the job hunt in Austin, and UTSW will help you more with jobs anywhere outside of central Texas.

the programs he's talking about(and the other programs she interviewed at) are *IN NO WAY* similar......I mean there are 10 other programs she interviewed at where they could practice in austin if they still wanted to.

I mean S&W is a nice program no doubt, but it is NOT a program that attracts a great number of top candidates, and it sounds like his wife is one. Nothing wrong with that, but if your wife wanted to match at S&W why do all that work to be a top candidate?

 

[trophyhusband]

the programs he's talking about(and the other programs she interviewed at) are *IN NO WAY* similar......I mean there are 10 other programs she interviewed at where they could practice in austin if they still wanted to.

I mean S&W is a nice program no doubt, but it is NOT a program that attracts a great number of top candidates, and it sounds like his wife is one. Nothing wrong with that, but if your wife wanted to match at S&W why do all that work to be a top candidate?

Not sure she ever considered herself a top candidate and as she had focused on peds/OBGYN up until her psych rotation in 3rd year I'm not sure we ever really had a good handle on her competiveness in the field. I think her glowing LOR's really helped her be more competive than should would have been from a strictly numbers perspective.

We were actually quite suprised with the number of interviews she offered. The only place that she applied to that didn't respond was George Washington and we kind of take that to mean she wouldn't be particularly competive in the NE.

Also, my wife really couldn't care less about prestige (as much as I would like her to sometimes) of a program or competiveness. She's much more interested in going to a place where she's going to feel comfortable working for the next 3-5 years and where she will be able to get the training that she wants and in a way that best suits her learning style (this was the biggest issue with UTSW... the changing of rotations each month).

So I guess just because someone is relatively competitive doesn't mean they have to go to a competitive residency just to prove they can...

 

[psychotrope]

Not sure she ever considered herself a top candidate and as she had focused on peds/OBGYN up until her psych rotation in 3rd year I'm not sure we ever really had a good handle on her competiveness in the field. I think her glowing LOR's really helped her be more competive than should would have been from a strictly numbers perspective.

We were actually quite suprised with the number of interviews she offered. The only place that she applied to that didn't respond was George Washington and we kind of take that to mean she wouldn't be particularly competive in the NE. QUOTE]

I've seen her interview list(you posted it) and she took it wrong then.....GW didn't give her an interview probably because they didn't want to waste an interview on an overqualified candidate who was likely to not rank them in a place where she could realistically end up there..........GW doesn't get the kind of people your wife is typically.

As for the peds/obgyn thing....peds is probably about the same competitiveness as psych, obgyn probably a bit moreso in that they have a higher % of american grads....so not sure where that comes into play.

Psych is still a pretty non-competitive field for american grads. Your wife is an american grad who did decently to well and has no red flags; hence the almost 100% success in interviews(and honestly had you applied to even more top 25 places you would have gotten even more interviews from almost all of them in fact, even top 10 places)......

If she really feels that A&M is worthy of her #2 spot, by all means do it. But there will most likely be some combination of a number of do's/imgs there while she is there, and there will be plenty of programs she could have gone to that are viewed *much* higher that will make a difference down the road........

I'm in the same boat as your wife(ie about to match), and several private practice psychiatrists in areas I would want to live(and awesome practice groups) tell me that even if you don't want a competitive child fellowship, it *does* make a difference for what group you join what residency you come from.......

 

[trophyhusband]

I've seen her interview list(you posted it) and she took it wrong then.....GW didn't give her an interview probably because they didn't want to waste an interview on an overqualified candidate who was likely to not rank them in a place where she could realistically end up there..........GW doesn't get the kind of people your wife is typically.

As for the peds/obgyn thing....peds is probably about the same competitiveness as psych, obgyn probably a bit moreso in that they have a higher % of american grads....so not sure where that comes into play.

Psych is still a pretty non-competitive field for american grads. Your wife is an american grad who did decently to well and has no red flags; hence the almost 100% success in interviews(and honestly had you applied to even more top 25 places you would have gotten even more interviews from almost all of them in fact, even top 10 places)......

If she really feels that A&M is worthy of her #2 spot, by all means do it. But there will most likely be some combination of a number of do's/imgs there while she is there, and there will be plenty of programs she could have gone to that are viewed *much* higher that will make a difference down the road........

I'm in the same boat as your wife(ie about to match), and several private practice psychiatrists in areas I would want to live(and awesome practice groups) tell me that even if you don't want a competitive child fellowship, it *does* make a difference for what group you join what residency you come from.......

Yeah, her passion is working with MR, PDD, and Autism and those don't seem to be patient populations that she's going to have to compete very hard for so I don't think she's especially worried about it. She is working with an attending that has a pretty sweet gig at a relatively major Children's Hospital that had her questioning whether she should try for something more competitive per his recommendation... But she's comfortable enough with the list to have certified already.

This match process certainly is an interesting bit of psychological warfare on the allopathic medical students...

 

[anesthesiarocks]

Yeah, her passion is working with MR, PDD, and Autism and those don't seem to be patient populations that she's going to have to compete very hard for so I don't think she's especially worried about it. She is working with an attending that has a pretty sweet gig at a relatively major Children's Hospital that had her questioning whether she should try for something more competitive per his recommendation... But she's comfortable enough with the list to have certified already.

This match process certainly is an interesting bit of psychological warfare on the allopathic medical students...

1) Do you guys wonder *why* the attending with the pretty sweet gig is questioning why she would pass on much more prestigious places? I mean she's an attending *in that field* with a pretty sweet gig? She probably has a clue what she is talking about.....

2) MR/Autism, while obviously not a "competitive" area, still has the same dynamics of everything else. IOW, someone from duke or penn or columbia or(insert your topm 15 program here) who wants to do that, and there *will* be some, is going to have a huge edge up on someone from a place like S&W......

I don't want you to think I am being overly critical of your decision. If anything I am complimenting you and your wife on her excellent credentials🙂......I'm just pointing out that going to S&W will put her behind many other people in terms of competitiveness, and some of those people she is apparently ahead of in terms of qualifications to match into a good spot now.....

 

[trophyhusband]

1) Do you guys wonder *why* the attending with the pretty sweet gig is questioning why she would pass on much more prestigious places? I mean she's an attending *in that field* with a pretty sweet gig? She probably has a clue what she is talking about.....

2) MR/Autism, while obviously not a "competitive" area, still has the same dynamics of everything else. IOW, someone from duke or penn or columbia or(insert your topm 15 program here) who wants to do that, and there *will* be some, is going to have a huge edge up on someone from a place like S&W......

I don't want you to think I am being overly critical of your decision. If anything I am complimenting you and your wife on her excellent credentials🙂......I'm just pointing out that going to S&W will put her behind many other people in terms of competitiveness, and some of those people she is apparently ahead of in terms of qualifications to match into a good spot now.....

While this may be true it also discounts the fact that we're trying to start a family and the competitive programs aren't particularly family friendly. UTSW is the only truly competitive program (unless you want to count Baylor, but bleh) she interviewed at and while we would consider it family friendly it has the other issue I mentioned. So it's neither here nor there at this point. We didn't have any real desire to go to the west coast or the NE so the amount of "competitive" programs she could have interviewed at was severely limited.

As far as being less competitive vs. others from UCSF, Duke, Emory, MGH, etc. I'm not sure how much of an issue that is going to be as the places we're thinking of settling are not likely to attract many of those folks (except for Austin but even that isn't necessarily as high on our list as it was when I first created this post).

In all likelihood she'll work a county mental health center or something equally low paying as my wife has an aversion to making money 🙄. So this is all probably a moot point.

 

[psychotrope]

While this may be true it also discounts the fact that we're trying to start a family and the competitive programs aren't particularly family friendly. QUOTE]

we went over this same discussion earlier, and again I *dont* think S&W is family friendly compared to most programs in it's "peer" group.

Is S&W family friendly compared to some of the more malignant crappy NE programs? God yes......

Is S&W family friendly compared to some of the "prestigous" programs that they don't really compete with? God yes.....(but in a different way than above)

But if you truly want family friendly, there are *several* programs(heck I've interviewed at 4 or 5 myself) which do provide that family friendly atmosphere, and they are much more laid back/less call seriousness than S&W. Of course S&W has a better reputation than some of these more laid back programs too.....

I interviewed at 14 programs....S&W was one of those. I'm from texas, went to med school there, and an ranking S&W #5.......but out of the 14 programs I interviewed at, 6 or so had "real" call, 4 had semi-real call, and 4 had basically no call........

S&W had "real" call.......there is a reason they allow the resident to go home at 730ish am post call for the whole day....think about it.

The fact that I have them #5 out of 14 speaks to the quality of S&W, but if their schedule was more "family friendly"(and again I dont have a family) I would probably rank tham 2 or 3 instead of 5....because most of the places I interviewed at had a much better call schedule, where "home" call was actually home call(ie at s&w it is certainly not that).....

 

[trophyhusband]

we went over this same discussion earlier, and again I *dont* think S&W is family friendly compared to most programs in it's "peer" group.

Is S&W family friendly compared to some of the more malignant crappy NE programs? God yes......

Is S&W family friendly compared to some of the "prestigous" programs that they don't really compete with? God yes.....(but in a different way than above)

But if you truly want family friendly, there are *several* programs(heck I've interviewed at 4 or 5 myself) which do provide that family friendly atmosphere, and they are much more laid back/less call seriousness than S&W. Of course S&W has a better reputation than some of these more laid back programs too.....

I interviewed at 14 programs....S&W was one of those. I'm from texas, went to med school there, and an ranking S&W #5.......but out of the 14 programs I interviewed at, 6 or so had "real" call, 4 had semi-real call, and 4 had basically no call........

S&W had "real" call.......there is a reason they allow the resident to go home at 730ish am post call for the whole day....think about it.

The fact that I have them #5 out of 14 speaks to the quality of S&W, but if their schedule was more "family friendly"(and again I dont have a family) I would probably rank tham 2 or 3 instead of 5....because most of the places I interviewed at had a much better call schedule, where "home" call was actually home call(ie at s&w it is certainly not that).....

Bleh, this is going in circles. Lets just say S&W had the right balance of family friendliness, training, benefits, COL, etc. That none of the other Texas programs could match. From there we can all just agree to disagree.

Never thought psychiatrists (or future psychiatrists) were so judgemental... . Just kidding folks. I appreciate the thoughts but we're extremely comfortable with this choice.

 

[psychotrope]

Bleh, this is going in circles. Lets just say S&W had the right balance of family friendliness, training, benefits, COL, etc. That none of the other Texas programs could match. From there we can all just agree to disagree.

Never thought psychiatrists (or future psychiatrists) were so judgemental... . Just kidding folks. I appreciate the thoughts but we're extremely comfortable with this choice.

No I didn't think I was being judgemental/critical....I just disagreed with the basis of the "family friendliness" aspect of things relative to other programs in that group.......

Like I said I interviewed at 14 programs, and out of all 14 S&W probably ranked about 3rd or so in terms of "which program would you most likely have to be up at 230am on call nights" at.......

it's good experience, but it's not family friendly wrt call. and in any real sense it sure as heck isn't home call. I talked to almost all the 2nd and 3rd year residents(as well as 2 4th years at S&W), and out of that group all admitted that they were up almost all night every call night, which stretches into the middle of your third year. One of the residents did actually try to sneak home at times(and the other residents commented on this), but they thought it strange as she would usually have to go back in just after she got home.


Whereas 4-5 of the programs I went to(probably not the same quality as S&W overall)actually did have a pure home call system.....this was simply due to lack of patients.........

 

[trophyhusband]

No I didn't think I was being judgemental/critical....I just disagreed with the basis of the "family friendliness" aspect of things relative to other programs in that group.......

Like I said I interviewed at 14 programs, and out of all 14 S&W probably ranked about 3rd or so in terms of "which program would you most likely have to be up at 230am on call nights" at.......

it's good experience, but it's not family friendly wrt call. and in any real sense it sure as heck isn't home call. I talked to almost all the 2nd and 3rd year residents(as well as 2 4th years at S&W), and out of that group all admitted that they were up almost all night every call night, which stretches into the middle of your third year. One of the residents did actually try to sneak home at times(and the other residents commented on this), but they thought it strange as she would usually have to go back in just after she got home.


Whereas 4-5 of the programs I went to(probably not the same quality as S&W overall)actually did have a pure home call system.....this was simply due to lack of patients.........

Fair enough. My wife's definition of family friendly is anything that isn't Q4 or Q5 and anything that doesn't include night float. Home call is a benefit but if it's not possible she's happy we could live within 10 minutes of the hospital. Besides the fact that we can probably rent a house in the area and avoid apartment living. We'd save a ton of money vs. the mortgage we're paying currently as well (more money to pay back loans). So again it's the total package for us... trying to split it up into this reason or that doesn't do the total analysis we went through justice. But people ask and I feel the need to respond... 🙂

Besides we're hoping we end up at #1... which I guess is obvious or it wouldn't be #1.

 

[cricketpsych]

Just to reinforce the original discussion, I would say as far as family-friendly S&W seems to be the better deal by far. During my interview day at UTSW, I was given the impression that call was not a big deal, the schedules were nice, etc. However (and this wasnt really discussed on my interview day), psych call at parkland is q2. Q2!! Yes, it is home call, and theres a psych ER, so youre not coming in to do H&Ps, but still...

 

[daru1]

? Aren't you at UTSW-Austin? I'm not sure how to interpret this... is there something that S&W and UTSW-Austin do in concert with one another (resident retreat or something)? Or is this just more of a friendly welcome to Austin thing? I'm really intrigued... and thank you!

Welcome to the area. There's no crossover with respect to the programs, but once you get into residency you'll see that you'll probably stay in central texas for a while. There's only a certain number of psychiatrists getting "pumped out" each year, so we do tend to meet each other over time.

 

[trophyhusband]

Welcome to the area. There's no crossover with respect to the programs, but once you get into residency you'll see that you'll probably stay in central texas for a while. There's only a certain number of psychiatrists getting "pumped out" each year, so we do tend to meet each other over time.

Got it, thank you for the warm welcome. We'll see what the match brings.

 

[psychotrope]

Fair enough. My wife's definition of family friendly is anything that isn't Q4 or Q5 and anything that doesn't include night float. Home call is a benefit but if it's not possible she's happy we could live within 10 minutes of the hospital. Besides the fact that we can probably rent a house in the area and avoid apartment living. We'd save a ton of money vs. the mortgage we're paying currently as well (more money to pay back loans). So again it's the total package for us... trying to split it up into this reason or that doesn't do the total analysis we went through justice. But people ask and I feel the need to respond... 🙂

Besides we're hoping we end up at #1... which I guess is obvious or it wouldn't be #1.

curious, what is #1? San antonio? That small austin program? Dude your wife is near a 100% lock to match at either of those so it wouldn't even matter.... If you dont feel comfortable mentioning it now you can wait until programs have to finalize their own lists🙂

also, one thing about call is that some of the programs I've been to(admittedly outside of texas) where they have q4/5 call are actually some of the most family friendly programs out there. Why? Because if it's a small program with low volume then you may be called in one out of every 4-5 nights, and you're sleeping at home for 8 hours on a call night most of the time. Whereas just because something is q8ish for two years(like S&W), thats "real" call where you certainly won't be at home and will be working nonstop overnight.......of course going back to your original question on UTSW vs S&W, UTSW isn't one of those "low volume" places either. My point is just that some programs with q4/5 call for a year actually have interns and pgy2's struggling to reach 45-50 hrs of time in the hospital just because the volume isn't there and a "call" night doesn't mean a whole lot.....

 

[trophyhusband]

curious, what is #1? San antonio? That small austin program? Dude your wife is near a 100% lock to match at either of those so it wouldn't even matter.... If you dont feel comfortable mentioning it now you can wait until programs have to finalize their own lists🙂

also, one thing about call is that some of the programs I've been to(admittedly outside of texas) where they have q4/5 call are actually some of the most family friendly programs out there. Why? Because if it's a small program with low volume then you may be called in one out of every 4-5 nights, and you're sleeping at home for 8 hours on a call night most of the time. Whereas just because something is q8ish for two years(like S&W), thats "real" call where you certainly won't be at home and will be working nonstop overnight.......of course going back to your original question on UTSW vs S&W, UTSW isn't one of those "low volume" places either. My point is just that some programs with q4/5 call for a year actually have interns and pgy2's struggling to reach 45-50 hrs of time in the hospital just because the volume isn't there and a "call" night doesn't mean a whole lot.....

We don't mind saying, I doubt our list will greatly affect anyone elses. Our #1 is University of New Mexico. We went back for a second look at the city (I've never been to Albuquerque) and decided that we loved it there. We told them they were #1 on our list but haven't heard a peep back (they had been quite responsive to e-mails previously). So either they're not interested or they're playing things close to the vest. We'll see on match day I guess. We've already got a ranked to match message from #3 so we won't be falling any farther than that... and truth be told we'd be happy at any of the top 3. The biggest difference is the locations of the programs.

 

[psychotrope]

We don't mind saying, I doubt our list will greatly affect anyone elses. Our #1 is University of New Mexico. We went back for a second look at the city (I've never been to Albuquerque) and decided that we loved it there. We told them they were #1 on our list but haven't heard a peep back (they had been quite responsive to e-mails previously). So either they're not interested or they're playing things close to the vest. We'll see on match day I guess. We've already got a ranked to match message from #3 so we won't be falling any farther than that... and truth be told we'd be happy at any of the top 3. The biggest difference is the locations of the programs.

Unless UNM fails to submit their rank list correctly, based on your wifes application I'd be willing to bet 10 to 1 odds she winds up there.....

 

[trophyhusband]

Unless UNM fails to submit their rank list correctly, based on your wifes application I'd be willing to bet 10 to 1 odds she winds up there.....

Could be, but what fun would match be without excessive handwringing and neuroticism.... wait... nm 😉

 

[Doctor Bagel]

We don't mind saying, I doubt our list will greatly affect anyone elses. Our #1 is University of New Mexico. We went back for a second look at the city (I've never been to Albuquerque) and decided that we loved it there. We told them they were #1 on our list but haven't heard a peep back (they had been quite responsive to e-mails previously). So either they're not interested or they're playing things close to the vest. We'll see on match day I guess. We've already got a ranked to match message from #3 so we won't be falling any farther than that... and truth be told we'd be happy at any of the top 3. The biggest difference is the locations of the programs.

I approve of this choice. 🙂 I think living in ABQ would be so much nicer than Temple. Bigger, more culture, NM food and proximity to Santa Fe and the mountains. And IMO, being close to Santa Fe trumps being close to Austin. You'll also miss out on the ridiculous central Texas heat but still get lots of sunshine.

 

[trophyhusband]

I approve of this choice. 🙂 I think living in ABQ would be so much nicer than Temple. Bigger, more culture, NM food and proximity to Santa Fe and the mountains. And IMO, being close to Santa Fe trumps being close to Austin. You'll also miss out on the ridiculous central Texas heat but still get lots of sunshine.

Whew! I was worried you wouldn't approve. That crisis is averted. j/k 😀

We'd be very happy to end up there and as we said we could see ourselves staying there long term. We'll see what happens.

Now, if only my wife's family were as open to the idea of us not moving to Texas 🙄...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Whew! I was worried you wouldn't approve. That crisis is averted. j/k 😀

We'd be very happy to end up there and as we said we could see ourselves staying there long term. We'll see what happens.

Now, if only my wife's family were as open to the idea of us not moving to Texas 🙄...

I know I always wait for anonymous internet people to approve my decisions. 😉

 

[trophyhusband]

Unless UNM fails to submit their rank list correctly, based on your wifes application I'd be willing to bet 10 to 1 odds she winds up there.....

Well I guess they submitted their rank list incorrectly 🙂. We're actually really excited about Scott & White, it was one of my wife's favorite programs. Considering she interviewed during the Ft. Hood shooting and she couldn't see the facilities because it was locked down (we went back for a second look at the facilities) that's saying something.

UNM was my wife's first interview (it was also their first interview day) and she actually came down with a case of Shingles (no stress in 4th year right? 🙄). We were hoping it wouldn't affect how she was ranked but we didn't have a good feeling when she sent them an e-mail saying they were #1 and they didn't respond. Oh well, there's always fellowship. We still really like that program too.

 

[billypilgrim37]

and she actually came down with a case of Shingles (no stress in 4th year right?

I'd love to see some epidemiology on zoster and medical students. I had a ridiculous t10 case m2 year, and I was one of 3 in my class who came down with it first two years.

 

[psychotrope]

Well I guess they submitted their rank list incorrectly 🙂. We're actually really excited about Scott & White, it was one of my wife's favorite programs. Considering she interviewed during the Ft. Hood shooting and she couldn't see the facilities because it was locked down (we went back for a second look at the facilities) that's saying something.

UNM was my wife's first interview (it was also their first interview day) and she actually came down with a case of Shingles (no stress in 4th year right? 🙄). We were hoping it wouldn't affect how she was ranked but we didn't have a good feeling when she sent them an e-mail saying they were #1 and they didn't respond. Oh well, there's always fellowship. We still really like that program too.

I really liked scott and white's program. I ranked them 7(out of 13), but only because I wanted to stay in the southeast. Had they been located in georgia/florida/alabama/sc and not texas, they would have been very very high.

The facilities at scott and white are very nice. Maybe the nicest I've seen.