WashU & "gunners"

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bearintraining

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I recently had a conversation with a MD collaborator & friend who told me he interviewed at WashU for both MD and residency and felt it was a "very competitive environment" (to the point that he turned it down). Can anyone else comment on what it's like at WashU as a med student? I'm interviewing there soon and would appreciate any input. Wondering also if the situation is still the same (he's been done his residency for several years now)
 
WashU has a world class medical program; they are going to have competitive applicants. Every Dr/resident/fellow I have spoken with has told me the same thing(some affiliated with said program): Where you go does not/will not make you a great doctor and you should go where you see yourself the happiest.
 
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Where you go does not/will not make you a great doctor and you should go where you see yourself the happiest.

Agreed. Since I haven't interviewed yet I can't comment yet on that part.. but it seems like an amazing place, for sure.
 
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Agreed. Since I haven't interviewed yet I can't comment yet on that part.. but it seems like an amazing place, for sure.

Some people thrive on the atomosphere as a kind of elitist zone of proximal development, while others, such as your friend, turn away from it. I think also it depends on what specialty you are interested in; if you are interested in highly competitive field I supposed you should just get used to the pressure and go to the best possible school to give you the best chance of matching into choice programs. Although even then, with board scores being so important, Im not sure how much prestige would help.
 
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Would be a nice analysis to see whether schools with top-percentile MCAT medians correlate with increased competitive environment.

Surprisingly, some reports say the opposite is true. The most competitive schools are actually the most collaborative/least gunnery. This includes WashU.
 
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Wash U has a completely unranked P/F first two years. Your class rank comes solely from year 3 & 4. That's big.
 
I was at Wash U interview. They are trying to change that image - now more collaborative and holistic, less gunner type. It is especially true with the recently new dean and admission committee.
 
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Wash U has a completely unranked P/F first two years. Your class rank comes solely from year 3 & 4. That's big.
First year is P/F, second year and beyond are H/HP/P/F.

Students didn't seem too intense when I was there, but it's definitely a very traditional curriculum and they told me that WashU doesn't hold your hand the way some schools do.
 
First year is P/F, second year and beyond are H/HP/P/F.

Students didn't seem too intense when I was there, but it's definitely a very traditional curriculum and they told me that WashU doesn't hold your hand the way some schools do.
Perhaps it changed? I spoke to a current student there last week during winter break. We were both drunk so maybe I misheard. Still a pretty cool system IMO
 
Thanks for all the comments and feedback guys -- I'm definitely looking forward to my interview there next week!
 
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When I interviewed it seemed more collaborative among the students, I didn't really get a huge competitive vibe
 
I agree with what most people have said. The atmosphere here is not remotely competitive, at least within my class. Grades haven't changed our class dynamic at all.

For what it's worth, I have a handful of friends at a different top 20 "true P/F" school that are miserable because of how competitive the atmosphere is there. The notion that grades = gunners and competition is false, especially with how our curriculum and grading structure is designed.
 
I agree with what most people have said. The atmosphere here is not remotely competitive, at least within my class. Grades haven't changed our class dynamic at all.

For what it's worth, I have a handful of friends at a different top 20 "true P/F" school that are miserable because of how competitive the atmosphere is there. The notion that grades = gunners and competition is false, especially with how our curriculum and grading structure is designed.

Awesome! Fantastic to hear - thank you for commenting!
 
I agree with what most people have said. The atmosphere here is not remotely competitive, at least within my class. Grades haven't changed our class dynamic at all.

For what it's worth, I have a handful of friends at a different top 20 "true P/F" school that are miserable because of how competitive the atmosphere is there. The notion that grades = gunners and competition is false, especially with how our curriculum and grading structure is designed.

At the same time, don't make the mistake of thinking that true P/F automatically means competitive and gunner-like. Atmosphere is often school-specific and you can't predict it without taking into account a multitude of factors.
 
I find the rumors about WashU being a hypercompetitive environment (and the entire notion that it's a numbers ***** -- but I've got my own theory on this) a fascinating aspect of SDN. It's something that is perpetuated throughout the premedical forums, but there's little to no evidence it's true from actual students. Of course, I may be biased, because there's a huge chance I'll be there next year, but I'll give you my perspective. I would venture that in many ways, WashU is less competitive than many other medical schools. The students there are excellent and have worked incredibly hard throughout undergrad. From the friends I have there (many, many!), the students seem to be very laid back, especially in their first year -- partly blowing off steam from undergrad, and probably partly because the quality of their institution protects them from needing to be competitive. After all you don't need to graduate AOA and top quartile of your class at WashU to do well in match placement, whereas that's not as much the case at a "lesser" known school.

The students I know and interact with are very happy at WashU, and most are very collaborative and social. I don't personally think there's any reason to be concerned. Good luck at your interview, and don't allow SDN rumors to bias your expectations/experience.
 
At the same time, don't make the mistake of thinking that true P/F automatically means competitive and gunner-like. Atmosphere is often school-specific and you can't predict it without taking into account a multitude of factors.

I agree, and it may even be more class-specific than school-specific, at least from my experience.
 
In the admissions process WashU has been described as incredibly metric focused (ie GPA and MCAT), so it would not be a stretch to imagine they'd attract many gunners with that system. Just a guess
 
In the admissions process WashU has been described as incredibly metric focused (ie GPA and MCAT), so it would not be a stretch to imagine they'd attract many gunners with that system. Just a guess
Being described as metric focused by SDN premedical students and actually being entirely about numbers are not necessarily one and the same. While they admittedly have high numbers (one possible explanation this is due to their admitting a higher number of students because other high-ranking institutions attract and draw many of those high-stats applicants away), that doesn't mean that those students only got those number by being gunners. Plenty of students don't have to be gunners to get good grades and good test scores. For what it's worth, the students I know are well-rounded and non-competitive.
 
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Being described as metric focused by SDN premedical students and actually being entirely about numbers are not necessarily one and the same. While they admittedly have high numbers (one possible explanation this is due to their admitting a higher number of students because other high-ranking institutions attract and draw many of those high-stats applicants away), that doesn't mean that those students only got those number by being gunners. Plenty of students don't have to be gunners to get good grades and good test scores. For what it's worth, the students I know are well-rounded and non-competitive.

Yea, what I'm saying is that from the people I know who go there (n=3) and SDN dogma, WashU med is known for taking people with High numbers but otherwise weak applicants.

Again though this was less directed at WashU and more at IF a school were very metric focused THEN it would probably collect alot of gunners.
 
@Amba and @gettheleadout are at Wash U. Hopefully, they'll respond to this bat signal.
Obviously I'm still in a year where everything is P/F, but I've honestly been surprised by how much people have shared resources they've found/created so far. No complaints about my fellow students being competitive.
 
Much like @efle I also didn't attend WashU med, but I went for a run on Saturday through Forest Park including briefly jogging past the WashU campus and Barnes Jewish.

I'm willing to provide my expertise. Go ahead and AMA.
 
Interviewed here recently and can say I didn't get a "gunner" feeling at all while I was there. Everyone seemed nice and chill and this was during exam time! Also had a great conversation with a fellow applicant and judging by the others I spoke to, WashU isn't really recruiting gunners.
 
Go to a pass fail school and thank yourself later!
 
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Much like @efle I also didn't attend WashU med, but I went for a run on Saturday through Forest Park including briefly jogging past the WashU campus and Barnes Jewish.

I'm willing to provide my expertise. Go ahead and AMA.

I went to a park once, how dare you.

Also @efle goes to school in Washington so what does he know.
 
Isn't that true for nearly every medical school??

No, there are differences.

Some schools (like WashU) are only P/F for year one, then switch to H/HP/P/F.

Many are always H/HP/P/F or similar (ABCD, etc).

Some are P/F but ranked (like NYU) within the P/F.

Some are "true P/F" meaning you're not ranked until your clinical years (like Columbia and Harvard).

Very few have no grades (Yale - maybe just Yale?).

Some have unranked PF clinical years (UCLA).
 
I saw this when it had like two posts lol I just have nothing to contribute. The few Washington MD and MSTP I've spoken to had nothing but good things to say but no idea how you'd judge competitiveness vs other med schools.

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