WashU vs Yale

[path2007]

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I'm looking forpeople’s advice on which residency program is better.
Both cities have bad repubation for safety. I heard some bad words about WashU and looks to me the working enviroment in Wash U is not that friendly.
Any comments?
Thanks

 

[yaah]

You can never really win in the 'which program is better' argument, because there will be proponents on each side, as well as detractors. For every person who says one of them is by far better, someone else will say the opposite. I know you don't want to hear this, but you have to decide for yourself. Both programs will train you to be a good pathologist, and have the opportunities to do what you want with your career. I wasn't interested in either one, partly because of the city and partly because I hadn't heard great things about the training environment. But I never went on interviews to either so my impression is basically invalid.

 

[LADoc00]

WashU med center is in a perfectly safe location bordering Forest Park. There are bars, restaurants and shopping all within walking. The train goes right through the med center as well. You dont need a car really. In addition, WashU heats all these above ground tunnels so you never go outside when its really cold.

Meanwhile Yale IS in the hood with such fine dining options as Dunkin Donuts.

 

[path2007]

thanks guys

 

[sohsie]

I know from both previous posts on this forum and from interviewing a candidate recently from that med school that that there is 24 hour turnaround time for all signouts, biopsies and large specimens. That means that you get a small amount of time, if any, to preview your cases before signout. You are signing out everything the day it comes out. I think while this may be great for the departments relationship with the hospital, this is quite bad for training.

 

[LADoc00]

I know from both previous posts on this forum and from interviewing a candidate recently from that med school that that there is 24 hour turnaround time for all signouts, biopsies and large specimens. That means that you get a small amount of time, if any, to preview your cases before signout. You are signing out everything the day it comes out. I think while this may be great for the departments relationship with the hospital, this is quite bad for training.

WashU has the hotseat program Stanford and UCSF also employ (UPenn as well I think....San Diego too maybe, lots of other I think..). It was in fact invented there by Lauren Ackerman. So yes there is a 24-hr TAT provided by the hotseat fellow, but the case then goes to the resident for previewing and signing out the following day.

Disclosure: I did not train at WashU. Im not a "ra-ra" man for them. But I will say if you want to make a TON of cash, training and then staying in the midwest is by far the best way to go.

 

[sohsie]

WashU has the hotseat program Stanford and UCSF also employ (UPenn as well I think....San Diego too maybe, lots of other I think..). It was in fact invented there by Lauren Ackerman. So yes there is a 24-hr TAT provided by the hotseat fellow, but the case then goes to the resident for previewing and signing out the following day.

Disclosure: I did not train at WashU. Im not a "ra-ra" man for them. But I will say if you want to make a TON of cash, training and then staying in the midwest is by far the best way to go.

Sorry to disagree, but from what the candidate from WASH U told me, combined with what has previously been posted on the boards, the cases are received by the resident and then signed out the same day, not the next day.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3156279#post3156279

 

[LADoc00]

Sorry to disagree, but from what the candidate from WASH U told me, combined with what has previously been posted on the boards, the cases are received by the resident and then signed out the same day, not the next day.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3156279#post3156279

Sorry to disagree and actually know what Im talking about but...
Cases are received by residents who indeed gross everyday, they are then read out the following day by the hotseat fellow, which is rotation as a surg path fellow/junior attending, they are then previewed and signed out by the resident. 24-hr TAT is guaranteed by the hotseat position and not by resident/attending duo.

This system is a compromise between providing top notch TATs and still allowing junior residents to learn from the cases.

Seriously, take what people say with a grain of salt on these boards. And listening to some applicant's half-baked interpetation of what he/she is seeing isnt always wise.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

LADoc is absolutely correct about Wash U's program. The hotseat system is one of the main drawbacks for Wash U (IMHO) because it detracts from the simulated experience of being the actual final word on a specimen. You (the resident) are not the first to see the specimen and while you are interpreting what you see there is always the diagnosis that someone more experienced than you made to color your thought process. I feel like it kind of steals autonomy from the resident.

And you will gross every day. The reason that the program has such a reputation for long hours comes from finishing a day's work at 4 and having to head back and gross for 3 hours before heading home. I found it kind of funny that the surg path fellows have a whole month rotation in the gross room where all they do is apportion the specimens from that day out to the residents.

 

[LADoc00]

LADoc is absolutely correct about Wash U's program. The hotseat system is one of the main drawbacks for Wash U (IMHO) because it detracts from the simulated experience of being the actual final word on a specimen. You (the resident) are not the first to see the specimen and while you are interpreting what you see there is always the diagnosis that someone more experienced than you made to color your thought process. I feel like it kind of steals autonomy from the resident.

And you will gross every day. The reason that the program has such a reputation for long hours comes from finishing a day's work at 4 and having to head back and gross for 3 hours before heading home. I found it kind of funny that the surg path fellows have a whole month rotation in the gross room where all they do is apportion the specimens from that day out to the residents.

A.) Of course Im correct, I dont post half-baked stuff unless I intend to be funny.
B.) This is the same system that is in places at dozens of training programs. Its standard fare, you either have a program where you alternate grossing days usually cross-covering frozens or a program where you gross and sign out everyday.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

A.) Of course Im correct, I dont post half-baked stuff unless I intend to be funny.
B.) This is the same system that is in places at dozens of training programs. Its standard fare, you either have a program where you alternate grossing days usually cross-covering frozens or a program where you gross and sign out everyday.

Wow, I didn't know that a lot of programs did things this way. Personally, I would not prefer the whole gross/signout everyday routine...and I agree with Brendan's concern regarding having hotseat folks see specimens first and come up with diagnoses before the resident sees the case. Certainly, that detracts from learning for residents. Great for fellows. To each his own.

I think the gross/signout everyday routine works for programs if the volume is not very high. But I could imagine things getting quite hectic if the volume was quite high.

 

[pathstudent]

A.) Of course Im correct, I dont post half-baked stuff unless I intend to be funny.
B.) This is the same system that is in places at dozens of training programs. Its standard fare, you either have a program where you alternate grossing days usually cross-covering frozens or a program where you gross and sign out everyday.

Are the clinicians really satisfied with a prelim diagnosis from a trainee? I can't imagine them telling the patient anything or intitiating therapy without a signed out report, which probably takes just as long with or without the fellow seeing it.

So that doesn't seem like a true TAT improvement.

As an aside, didn't most of the men who made Stanford path famous migrate from Wash U. I think that is the case but will defer to LADoc or someone else with more knowledge of pathology personalities and history. It seems to be true for everything in California. Half the things there that are famous transplanted themselves from somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast.

 

[pathstudent]

Wow, I didn't know that a lot of programs did things this way. Personally, I would not prefer the whole gross/signout everyday routine...and I agree with Brendan's concern regarding having hotseat folks see specimens first and come up with diagnoses before the resident sees the case. Certainly, that detracts from learning for residents. Great for fellows. To each his own.

I think the gross/signout everyday routine works for programs if the volume is not very high. But I could imagine things getting quite hectic if the volume was quite high.

I think a system that allowed a full day of looking at the slides and reading up on the cases would be ideal for learning pathology. However, now that academic institutions are being run with the pressures and profit-oriented mindset that has overtaken all of medicine, it would be foolish for a program to allow this.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I think a system that allowed a full day of looking at the slides and reading up on the cases would be ideal for learning pathology. However, now that academic institutions are being run with the pressures and profit-oriented mindset that has overtaken all of medicine, it would be foolish for a program to allow this.

Well I certainly agree...I think it's great to have experience coming up with a differential, working up a case, and writing up the reports oneself. Why? Cuz that's what you're gonna be doing when you're an attending!

The turnaround time pressures are very real. Fortunately, most of the clinicians in our hospital seem understanding of the need for previewing time. Compared to other places, we have a slightly longer turnaround time (which benefits the residents since we have a whole day to preview cases) but and that doesn't seem to be too much of a problem. Of course, when there are critical results, even if the working diagnosis is just preliminary, we take it upon ourselves to contact the clinicians or let them know where we're at in our thinking when they beat us to the punch and contact us.

 

[LADoc00]

Are the clinicians really satisfied with a prelim diagnosis from a trainee? I can't imagine them telling the patient anything or intitiating therapy without a signed out report, which probably takes just as long with or without the fellow seeing it.

So that doesn't seem like a true TAT improvement.

As an aside, didn't most of the men who made Stanford path famous migrate from Wash U. I think that is the case but will defer to LADoc or someone else with more knowledge of pathology personalities and history. It seems to be true for everything in California. Half the things there that are famous transplanted themselves from somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast.

I didnt invent this, Im merely telling you folks what the dealio is at such institutions. **IF** I was in charge of training **** would sure as hell be different. I would break stuff down by CPT, you wouldnt be on derm, you be on your 88305 rotation. You wouldnt do a worthless rotation in autopsy, you would do a rotation in autopsy/advocacy for insurance payment of autopsies. You wouldnt do months of surg path on end, you would have 3 weeks on, 1 week on a reading rotation interpersed with classes on finance, billing and contract law. CP wouldnt a fruitless exercise in watching gel runs, it would a compressed management degree co-taught with a REAL management school. Your elective choices would include: government lobbying, medical law as it pertains to pathology, ***ins and outs of well paying expert testimony***, contracts and negotiations, etc.
Everyone would learn flow on virtual flow interfaces, there would classes on databasing histopath images, instruction on different types of LIS......

But unfortunately Im not in charge so you all must suffer the:
gross--->sign out--->do a post mortem--->do a sit on my ass fellowship--->work for Ameripath tract

 

[DarksideAllstar]

...and I agree with Brendan's concern regarding having hotseat folks see specimens first and come up with diagnoses before the resident sees the case. Certainly, that detracts from learning for residents. Great for fellows.

At UCSF, the hot seat fellow gets the slides and paperwork, reviews the case writes a prelim diagnosis in their log book (so if a clinician calls, they can give it), and places the slides and paperwork on the resident's desk. The resident then previews the case that afternoon/night and signs out with the attending the following day. The resident does not receive the prelim diagnosis unless they actively seek it out (ie go look it up after everyone leaves the residents' room). Actually, the system works fairly well for bigs. For biopsies, the hot seat fellow gets the slides in the morning with the resident and they double scope them. The hot seat writes down a prelim, then the resident signs out with the attending later in the day, so there is in effect a one day turnaround on biopsies (residents sign out surgicals and bigs on separate days). This biopsies are usually what the clinician is anxiously waiting for in terms of dictating their care, not a friggin Whipple.

 

[CameronFrye]

At UVA we also have a slightly longer TAT (and the clinicians will occasionally gripe), but the path faculty are committed to preserving preview time. Our surg path schedule is:

Day 1: Frozens - Is also the AP resident on call overnight.
Day 2: Gross (techs gross in small biopsies)
Day 3: Smalls day - You receive small bx's from the day before around 7:30, you preview them, then you sign them out usually around 10 am. Once done, you dictate the diagnoses and get the cases signed out. In the midafternoon, you receive your "mains" cases and you preview them.
Day 4: Mains day - You signout all large cases.

We have a gyn fellow that sees the gyn specimens before us and writes down a dx on the back of the paper work, but I only look at that if I'm completely stumped.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I think a system that allowed a full day of looking at the slides and reading up on the cases would be ideal for learning pathology. However, now that academic institutions are being run with the pressures and profit-oriented mindset that has overtaken all of medicine, it would be foolish for a program to allow this.

I think that BID has this in place.

 

[pathstudent]

This biopsies are usually what the clinician is anxiously waiting for in terms of dictating their care, not a friggin Whipple.

Yeah that's usually the case, but if the radial margin is positive in the whipple then the patient goes for radiation. Also let's say on permanent the bile duct margin was actually clearly positive. They would like to know those things ASAP and would not appreciate getting a prelim report that they are positive or negative from a fellow and then have that over-turned when the real report comes out.

I don't think any physician would treat without a singed out report.

 

[pathstudent]

At UVA we also have a slightly longer TAT (and the clinicians will occasionally gripe), but the path faculty are committed to preserving preview time. Our surg path schedule is:

Day 1: Frozens - Is also the AP resident on call overnight.
Day 2: Gross (techs gross in small biopsies)
Day 3: Smalls day - You receive small bx's from the day before around 7:30, you preview them, then you sign them out usually around 10 am. Once done, you dictate the diagnoses and get the cases signed out. In the midafternoon, you receive your "mains" cases and you preview them.
Day 4: Mains day - You signout all large cases.

We have a gyn fellow that sees the gyn specimens before us and writes down a dx on the back of the paper work, but I only look at that if I'm completely stumped.

That's a great system.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Yeah that's usually the case, but if the radial margin is positive in the whipple then the patient goes for radiation. Also let's say on permanent the bile duct margin was actually clearly positive. They would like to know those things ASAP and would not appreciate getting a prelim report that they are positive or negative from a fellow and then have that over-turned when the real report comes out.

I don't think any physician would treat without a singed out report.

What I am saying to you is that the hot-seat fellow would rarely get a call re: large tumor resections, if at all (usually to inquire about IPOX). The clinicians (surgeon, rad-onc, hem-onc, etc) usually are not treating right away and dont need one day turnaround on these cases. Rad-onc will not be giving radiation POD1 to a patient who just had a Whipple performed. Usually the clinicians are smart enough to wait a couple days for a report to be signed out in these types of cases where the definitive treatment has been completed. They also understand what a "prelim" is and that it is NOT the final word.

 

[pathstudent]

What I am saying to you is that the hot-seat fellow would rarely get a call re: large tumor resections, if at all (usually to inquire about IPOX). The clinicians (surgeon, rad-onc, hem-onc, etc) usually are not treating right away and dont need one day turnaround on these cases. Rad-onc will not be giving radiation POD1 to a patient who just had a Whipple performed. Usually the clinicians are smart enough to wait a couple days for a report to be signed out in these types of cases where the definitive treatment has been completed. They also understand what a "prelim" is and that it is NOT the final word.

Yeah no ****.
I would go so far to say that they never institute definitive treatment without a signed out report. And they likely never tell the patient anything until the report is signed out as it would suck to have to tell the patient something else later on.

Rapid TAT are soley for patients and indirectly for clinicians as the patients bug the clinicians. I could be wrong but I don't believe that they would do anything to a patient or tell a patient anything of even minor significance without a signed out report. If you did that, you would get burned real fast.

It is nice for the fellows to have the quasi-real pressure as I'm sure the clinicians use their service out of curiosity, and I'm sure the fellows don't want anything of significance being over-turned by the final report. Secondly, it is good practice in a academic setting for a senior trainee to look at the cases first and identify which ones might need special treatment, ones that might sit there on an overwhelmed first year's desk for most of the day. It sounds like a great system and a great experience.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Yeah no ****.

Umm... then why did you say this:

Also let's say on permanent the bile duct margin was actually clearly positive. They would like to know those things ASAP and would not appreciate getting a prelim report that they are positive or negative from a fellow and then have that over-turned when the real report comes out.

I don't think any physician would treat without a singed out report.

😕

 

[pathstudent]

Umm... then why did you say this:

😕

Because they might want to take him back to surgery before he is discharged with a positive margin.

You are trying to argue a particular point. You are right with most whipples they wouldn't care if they had a report out in two days or one week. However, I can think of instances where they would care.

What I am saying is true in general. Clinicians want a signed out report before telling a patient anything of significance or doing anything to the patient. They would be putting themselves at legal risk and/or jeopardizing the trust of their patient by doing so. So the idea that a "hotseat" fellow is equivalent to a 24 hr TAT is false.

 

[djmd]

But unfortunately Im not in charge so you all must suffer the:
gross--->sign out--->do a post mortem--->do a sit on my ass fellowship--->work for Ameripath tract

-----------------------------------------------------------------------(*)----------------------------

thanks now I know where I am
😡 The next part of my journey seems like a blast!😡

 

[sohsie]

Sorry to disagree and actually know what Im talking about but...
Cases are received by residents who indeed gross everyday, they are then read out the following day by the hotseat fellow, which is rotation as a surg path fellow/junior attending, they are then previewed and signed out by the resident. 24-hr TAT is guaranteed by the hotseat position and not by resident/attending duo.

This system is a compromise between providing top notch TATs and still allowing junior residents to learn from the cases.

Seriously, take what people say with a grain of salt on these boards. And listening to some applicant's half-baked interpetation of what he/she is seeing isnt always wise.

I looked back at the previous post that I had linked to and saw that it was actually an applicant from last year(beary) and not a resident who had said that "After signing out the smaller ones, you preview the bigger ones (late morning - early afternoon), and then sign those out in the afternoon. " They may have been mistaken.

However, the applicant I interviewed didnt merely drop into the department one day to see what it was like. They did 4 months of pathology electives there and were given the same independent workload as the residents there, which was independently confirmed. They were quite clear that they were signing out their bigs the same day that they got the slides. Therefore, I certainly would take their word over yours, despite your apologetic claim to know what you are talking about.

Of course, the easiest way to know either way is if a current resident there posted the facts.

 

[LADoc00]

I looked back at the previous post that I had linked to and saw that it was actually an applicant from last year(beary) and not a resident who had said that "After signing out the smaller ones, you preview the bigger ones (late morning - early afternoon), and then sign those out in the afternoon. " They may have been mistaken.

However, the applicant I interviewed didnt merely drop into the department one day to see what it was like. They did 4 months of pathology electives there and were given the same independent workload as the residents there, which was independently confirmed. They were quite clear that they were signing out their bigs the same day that they got the slides. Therefore, I certainly would take their word over yours, despite your apologetic claim to know what you are talking about.

Of course, the easiest way to know either way is if a current resident there posted the facts.

I will perform a public mea culpa if indeed things have changed that radically since I ventured through Barnes-Jewish. Are there any stealth WashUer's that can adress this?

 

[SLUsagar]

As an aside, didn't most of the men who made Stanford path famous migrate from Wash U. I think that is the case but will defer to LADoc or someone else with more knowledge of pathology personalities and history. It seems to be true for everything in California. Half the things there that are famous transplanted themselves from somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast.

i can comment on that...
Yes, historically, Kempson and Dorfman both finished their WashU training and came to Stanford and basically are considered the founding fathers. They obv. therefore implemented a similar Ackermonian system (LV Ackerman that is, not that bernie fool) that incorporates a hotseat, gross room conferences with teaching/pimping (all in good nature of course). We in the typical Californian lifestyle, have modified it a bit, and now truly is both resident, fellow, and patient oriented.
DAY 1: GROSS - resident(s) gross(es), other resident grosses and covers frozens
DAY 2: CYTO/PREVIEW : morning, resident(s) preview and write up some cyto cases, other resident previews and goes on and performs FNA's. Afternoon attend cyto sign out. Mid/late afternoon (as well during downtime in morning in btw previewing/doing cyto) you preview your cases (bigs/smalls/shorts/talls)...which are distributed by hotseat fellow (SP fellow) who looks at everything, writes a prelim (in a hotseat folder, hidden from resident). Cases have been previously looked at, but are NEW to the resident. Residents find this day the longest as you often need to stay until late evening previewing, but at least the day (3/4 day) is protected preview time, NO SIGNOUTS or GROSSING. Residents come of our training program very strong in cyto (besides SP obv), which is great for private practice or even carry-over to SP/academia.
DAY 3: SIGN OUT: Residents sit 1on1 with attending and sign out cases (mind you: resident here from DAY 1 dictate their own reports --> i must say that this challenging in the beginning but utterly important. I know other places you just jot some notes during preview but then hand all the paperwork over to the attending who runs away after s/o and dictates all the cases in their tiny offices. I can't tell you how many outside SP fellows we've had come through and be like, what are you first year residents doing? dictating? wow!! i didn't do that until my 3rd/4th year! so yes, it's challenging esp. given path's Hugh Jass learning curve, but being able to write up reports yourself early on is a great asset - of course attending will proof and modify cases as needed). after s/o, resident goes back to hotseat to doublecheck and agree on all cases. Discrepancies are shown around or re-reviewed by everyone involved.

The cycle repeats itself, except the grossing and FNA resident switch. Rest remains the same.

I truly believe our's is a great system b/c (at least!) 3 pair of eyes look at EVERY case: hotseat fellow, resident, attending. Great learning + great patient care. Plus the residents are a joy to work with as well as the down-to-earth and super-friendly attendings. SP is busy, but you learn tons and honestly, it's pretty damn fun.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

i can comment on that...
Yes, historically, Kempson and Dorfman both finished their WashU training and came to Stanford and basically are considered the founding fathers. They obv. therefore implemented a similar Ackermonian system (LV Ackerman that is, not that bernie fool) that incorporates a hotseat, gross room conferences with teaching/pimping (all in good nature of course). We in the typical Californian lifestyle, have modified it a bit, and now truly is both resident, fellow, and patient oriented.

When I rotated on SP at UCSD, Weidner (another product of WashU) told me he also implemented the SP fellow (gross room, hot seat, etc) system at UCSF back in the day.

 

[pathstudent]

i can comment on that...
Yes, historically, Kempson and Dorfman both finished their WashU training and came to Stanford and basically are considered the founding fathers. They obv. therefore implemented a similar Ackermonian system (LV Ackerman that is, not that bernie fool) that incorporates a hotseat, gross room conferences with teaching/pimping (all in good nature of course). We in the typical Californian lifestyle, have modified it a bit, and now truly is both resident, fellow, and patient oriented.
DAY 1: GROSS - resident(s) gross(es), other resident grosses and covers frozens
DAY 2: CYTO/PREVIEW : morning, resident(s) preview and write up some cyto cases, other resident previews and goes on and performs FNA's. Afternoon attend cyto sign out. Mid/late afternoon (as well during downtime in morning in btw previewing/doing cyto) you preview your cases (bigs/smalls/shorts/talls)...which are distributed by hotseat fellow (SP fellow) who looks at everything, writes a prelim (in a hotseat folder, hidden from resident). Cases have been previously looked at, but are NEW to the resident. Residents find this day the longest as you often need to stay until late evening previewing, but at least the day (3/4 day) is protected preview time, NO SIGNOUTS or GROSSING. Residents come of our training program very strong in cyto (besides SP obv), which is great for private practice or even carry-over to SP/academia.
DAY 3: SIGN OUT: Residents sit 1on1 with attending and sign out cases (mind you: resident here from DAY 1 dictate their own reports --> i must say that this challenging in the beginning but utterly important. I know other places you just jot some notes during preview but then hand all the paperwork over to the attending who runs away after s/o and dictates all the cases in their tiny offices. I can't tell you how many outside SP fellows we've had come through and be like, what are you first year residents doing? dictating? wow!! i didn't do that until my 3rd/4th year! so yes, it's challenging esp. given path's Hugh Jass learning curve, but being able to write up reports yourself early on is a great asset - of course attending will proof and modify cases as needed). after s/o, resident goes back to hotseat to doublecheck and agree on all cases. Discrepancies are shown around or re-reviewed by everyone involved.

The cycle repeats itself, except the grossing and FNA resident switch. Rest remains the same.

I truly believe our's is a great system b/c (at least!) 3 pair of eyes look at EVERY case: hotseat fellow, resident, attending. Great learning + great patient care. Plus the residents are a joy to work with as well as the down-to-earth and super-friendly attendings. SP is busy, but you learn tons and honestly, it's pretty damn fun.

That is a great system too. Does the SP fellow order immunos on cases that likely need them to help expedite the process?

Also, how long are you there are on your cutting day?

 

[mrp]

Well, this thread jumped the tracks a while ago...

Here at UCSD, the surg path fellow on the hot seat previews the biopsies/quicks with the resident. Once this is done (usually around 11 am or so), the resident goes to sign out the biopsies with the attending, and the hot seat fellow then previews the next day's bigs solo. All hot seat diagnoses are written in a book and clinicians can call for preliminary diagnosis. Which they do ALOT--sometimes it seems like the phone is ringing off the hook. The hot seat fellow is supposed to emphasize that this is a PRELIMINARY diagnosis and to take the clinician's pager and name in case there is a change in the final dx.

Overall, the system is fantastic for the fellows (the hot seat fellow sees everything) and is plus/minus for the resident. On the plus side, the resident gets teaching from 2 different people on the biopsies, the hot seat and the attending. On the minus side, he/she can't see them as "virgin" cases. Residents, though, do dictate everything from day one of residency. I wasn't aware that there are places where the attendings dictate cases instead of the residents. That doesn't sound that great.

It's Weidner's fellowship. I suspect he set up a similar fellowship at UCSF.

 

[SLUsagar]

That is a great system too. Does the SP fellow order immunos on cases that likely need them to help expedite the process?

Also, how long are you there are on your cutting day?

yup, hotseat fellow learns to grow balls enough to order $$$ IPOX, stains, etc. as needed. The attendings don't complain about their choices, but then again the fellows are usually pretty good about not ordering excess stuff.

gross room: we're getting another PA soon (June), so that should help even more [we've got 2.5 PA's, do nearly all biopsies/smalls, but they do know how and often will handle bigs]. We avg i'd say 7-8:30pm right now. some days earlier, some later. Your frozens days have the potential to be busier, but we're all a team, so the other residents/PAs will pick up slack if you're out doing frozens all day.

 

[sohsie]

I will perform a public mea culpa if indeed things have changed that radically since I ventured through Barnes-Jewish. Are there any stealth WashUer's that can adress this?

Looks like I owe the mea culpa to LADoc 😳 I'm not worthy!

Thanks to SLUsagar for the info.

 

[roach]

Looks like I owe the mea culpa to LADoc 😳 I'm not worthy!

Thanks to SLUsagar for the info.

i thought SLUsagar was talking about stanford and not wash u

 

[SLUsagar]

i thought SLUsagar was talking about stanford and not wash u

correct, stanford.

zup roach!! shoot me an email! haven't chatted in a while dude!

 

[sohsie]

i thought SLUsagar was talking about stanford and not wash u

Oops, premature mea culpa! Hopefully someone from Wash U can clarify for all of us.

 

[LADoc00]

When I rotated on SP at UCSD, Weidner (another product of WashU) told me he also implemented the SP fellow (gross room, hot seat, etc) system at UCSF back in the day.

WashU alum:
Noel Weidner
Richard Kempson
Ronald Dorfman
Juan Rosai
Roger Warnke
Mark Wick
many others....

Although the original concept of a specific residency in Pathology dates to people like Mallory at MGH in the 1920s, WashU pioneered both the concept of the surgical pathology fellowship and the idea of a Clinical pathology residency program.

 

[roach]

WashU alum:
Noel Weidner
Richard Kempson
Ronald Dorfman
Juan Rosai
Roger Warnke
Mark Wick
many others....

Although the original concept of a specific residency in Pathology dates to people like Mallory at MGH in the 1920s, WashU pioneered both the concept of the surgical pathology fellowship and the idea of a Clinical pathology residency program.

lots of history, but it sounds as though the place has lost some of the luster..at least from people I know who trained there or are pretty familiar with the program. can anyone comment on this? it still seems like a good place to do a surg path year.

 

[dermpathlover]

lots of history, but it sounds as though the place has lost some of the luster..at least from people I know who trained there or are pretty familiar with the program. can anyone comment on this? it still seems like a good place to do a surg path year.

It is in Saint Louis after all.

1950 population 857,000
1970 population 622,000
1980 population 443,000
2000 population 348,000
2020 last one out, turn off the lights!

It is impossible in this day and age for STL to compete with Frisco and Beantown at least in terms of being a desirable place to live. But there might be a backlash now that those other cities are so expensive. New brilliant academics will be forced back to the midwest and plains to afford a house.

 

[SLUsagar]

lots of history, but it sounds as though the place has lost some of the luster..at least from people I know who trained there or are pretty familiar with the program. can anyone comment on this? it still seems like a good place to do a surg path year.

and from LaDoc:
famous WashU alum:
Noel Weidner
Richard Kempson
Ronald Dorfman
Juan Rosai
Roger Warnke
many others....

wow, what a list of names. Only prob is....everyone has left. Wash U at one time was indeed the cream of the crop. Yes they've still got Pepper Dehner and P. (his first name is actually Prostate) Humphrey, but the historical folks are long gone. Maybe in 10-15 years or so they'll be strong again. Still not a bad place to train though, better than some no-name place. I have also heard stuff similar to posts by others...namely,
"it's a great place for pathology, but Wash U has a real penchant for hiring as*holes in all of their departments." My advice would be to check it out for yourself and decide for yourself."