Western AZCOM or Touro?

[DelAGator]

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Of the 3, what has the best clinical experiences? I am looking into radiology or surgery?

 

[Dr. Don]

Of the 3, what has the best clinical experiences? I am looking into radiology or surgery?

I would say Western or AZCOM. I'm a second year at Western and last year's class matched very well in both surgery and Radiology, with some notables being an ortho spot at an allopathic residency and USC Rad, among others. I believe the match lists were posted so do a search. Good luck to you, and as far as the weather is concerned (noticed you're from florida), southern california wins by a landslide! good luck to you!

 

[NRAI2001]

I would say Western or AZCOM. I'm a second year at Western and last year's class matched very well in both surgery and Radiology, with some notables being an ortho spot at an allopathic residency and USC Rad, among others. I believe the match lists were posted so do a search. Good luck to you, and as far as the weather is concerned (noticed you're from florida), southern california wins by a landslide! good luck to you!

I was looking at the Western match list (available in the preosteo board) and it didn't seem like many people went into surgery out of western. Is this bc they had difficulty getting surgery, students just weren't interested, or are the surgeries just listed as "traditional" and "rotating"?

 

[NRAI2001]

Of the 3, what has the best clinical experiences? I am looking into radiology or surgery?

What about NOVA, my friend interviewed there and he said that they had a awesome campus and the city was really great?

 

[crys20]

I would take a look at the match lists and use that as a guide...It is easy to find them online.

 

[Vince]

I was looking at the Western match list (available in the preosteo board) and it didn't seem like many people went into surgery out of western. Is this bc they had difficulty getting surgery, students just weren't interested, or are the surgeries just listed as "traditional" and "rotating"?

DO 2005 here. I heard our class had a few unsuccessful stories of trying to get into Ortho, but those were DO programs. (These were good students too.) We only had one try for MD ortho and he got it! (Very intelligent person with a stellar application.)

Aside from the one that matched into a DO Gen Surg residency, I don't know of any others that really wanted to go into General Surgery. I think there was one who was hoping for Urology, either MD or DO, but was unsuccessful this go around. There is another student who matched into a Surgical Intern year, but that was a complete shock to me, and I have no idea as to whether that person was hoping to match categorical or is still trying to decide what specialty to do.

In short, Surgery was not sought after in my class. The big competitive ones from my class this year I think were PM&R & Anesthesiology.

Only two in my class went for Radiology, one matched in the military to Walter Reed I think, and the other one was mentioned above going to USC.

If you work hard, and I mean really hard, you should be able to match into a competitive specialty from either Western or AZCOM. It might be an exception to the rule, but it can be done. I would not go to Touro if you are thinking Rads, Surgery, or Surgical Subspecialty.

Anyone have $0.98 in change for this dollar? 😉

 

[OnMyWayThere]

I have a Q... do the people in "traditional rotating" know what program they're going to yet or do they apply during their internship?

 

[NRAI2001]

I have a Q... do the people in "traditional rotating" know what program they're going to yet or do they apply during their internship?

Good question. When do they apply for their residency if they are doing this? Do they just match into the same instituion most of the time?

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Good question. When do they apply for their residency if they are doing this? Do they just match into the same instituion most of the time?

Perhaps the Q needs a dedicated thread... I'll post one now.

 

[NRAI2001]

Do people who wish to do more competitive residencies (plastics, neurosurgery, rads...etc) need to go the traditional route?

 

[NRAI2001]

bump

 

[heech]

I would not go to Touro if you are thinking Rads, Surgery, or Surgical Subspecialty.

That hardly seems fair. As you mentioned, COMP this year had a couple surgery matches (with a prelim).

TUCOM, with a graduating class a little more than half the size of COMPs (100 versus 180), matched 1 DO ortho, 3 DO general surgeries, and a MD general surgery in the class of 2005.

 

[NRAI2001]

Why do so few people match into surgery? Do less DO students want to go into surgery or is there some form of bias?

 

[VentdependenT]

Why do so few people match into surgery? Do less DO students want to go into surgery or is there some form of bias?

Yes x 2

It seems that only the most motivated osteopaths will be able to match into university based surgical programs. Plan early, do a couple o' sub-I auditions and rock them, score high on the USMLE (upper 220's for starts), land some big letters, and you're in the running. That is an arduous task to say the least.

Community programs are always an option as are osteopathic gen surg programs. The latter do not seem to recruit too heavily but I may be incorrect.

 

[Jinyaoysiu]

That hardly seems fair. As you mentioned, COMP this year had a couple surgery matches (with a prelim).

TUCOM, with a graduating class a little more than half the size of COMPs (100 versus 180), matched 1 DO ortho, 3 DO general surgeries, and a MD general surgery in the class of 2005.

Not here to dispute the fact that one can also match into Rad/Surgery from TUCOM, but the the size of COMP class of 2005 is 160, with 1 MD Rad, 1 MD Ortho, 1 DO Ortho, 1 DO Facial Plastics, 1 DO general, 1 ENT in Los Angeles(not sure if it's MD/DO), not to mention the caliber(USC&UMDNJ).

 

[NRAI2001]

Yes x 2

It seems that only the most motivated osteopaths will be able to match into university based surgical programs. Plan early, do a couple o' sub-I auditions and rock them, score high on the USMLE (upper 220's for starts), land some big letters, and you're in the running. That is an arduous task to say the least.

Community programs are always an option as are osteopathic gen surg programs. The latter do not seem to recruit too heavily but I may be incorrect.

So community based surgery programs wouldn't be too difficult to match into? Is it possible to get fellowships after completing community based programs?

 

[VentdependenT]

So community based surgery programs wouldn't be too difficult to match into? Is it possible to get fellowships after completing community based programs?

From what I understand they aren't as difficult as university based surgery. You still need to dot your t's and cross your i's but you may be able to get by with just a COMLEX. That is not a recommendation however.

I think your second question has been answered, at least partly, several times in the surg forum. Check it out. As with anything it always depends on how you market yourself (chief resident, research, case studies published, poster presentations at local surg conferences, case load, letters, etc..) and what you are shooting for.

 

[NRAI2001]

From what I understand they aren't as difficult as university based surgery. You still need to dot your t's and cross your i's but you may be able to get by with just a COMLEX. That is not a recommendation however.

I think your second question has been answered, at least partly, several times in the surg forum. Check it out. As with anything it always depends on how you market yourself (chief resident, research, case studies published, poster presentations at local surg conferences, case load, letters, etc..) and what you are shooting for.

I don't know how much truth there is to this, but a few docs and med students told me that u actually get better training at community based residencies bc you are exposed to such a bulk of cases. You may not see the ultra complicated cases, but you see huge volumes of the cases that will probably make up 90% of your practice.

With this in mind, wouldn't community based programs produce "better" more experienced surgeons.

 

[heech]

Not here to dispute the fact that one can also match into Rad/Surgery from TUCOM, but the the size of COMP class of 2005 is 160, with 1 MD Rad, 1 MD Ortho, 1 DO Ortho, 1 DO Facial Plastics, 1 DO general, 1 ENT in Los Angeles(not sure if it's MD/DO), not to mention the caliber(USC&UMDNJ).

You're right, Word didn't copy correctly into Excel, and I had the wrong number for COMP's class size. Regardless, for a school that's graduating 62% the number of students COMP is graduating... TUCOM's residences are nothing to blush about.

I don't think anyone *really* is really keeping score on residency distribution; there's no trophy being handed out here. The comment made above is this:

I would not go to Touro if you are thinking Rads, Surgery, or Surgical Subspecialty.

I don't see how that advice to the incoming makes any sense. In the class of 2005, a higher percentage of TUCOM students ended up in residencies in these fields. Yes, USC radiology and UNMDJ ortho are fabulous programs... but that's not the only factor that a prospective student cares about, right? (And even if it was... what about Yale MD anesthiology, from TUCOM 2004?)

Here are some facts that might be meaningful to prospective students:

- class of 2004: COMP had zero, and 4 surgeons (2 general, 1 ortho, 1 optho). TUCOM had 4 surgeons as well (3 general, 1 ortho).

- class of 2003: COMP had one radiology, and 4 surgeons (4 general). TUCOM had zero radiology, and six surgeons (5 general, 1 facial plastic).

I don't see any evidence that going to COMP as opposed to TUCOM is going to give you a major advantage for the above specialties. Do you disagree?

 

[Vince]

I don't see any evidence that going to COMP as opposed to TUCOM is going to give you a major advantage for the above specialties. Do you disagree?

First of all, I was just giving an opinion...no need for anybody to get all bent out of shape. I said "I would not go..."

I didn't say that going to COMP gives you an advantage to these specialties. Also, I didn't really say that COMP had that great of match results getting into Surgical specialties, radiology, etc.....a few good matches is hardly enough to make a generalization. And again, these residencies were not desired by many. There were some unsuccessful stories trying to get Ortho.

Looking at match results from each school more closely, I think AZCOM would probably be a better choice if you are serious about a competitive specialty. If, however, you want to do your residency in California, especially, Southern California, then I would lean towards WesternU/COMP, albeit not that much.

As a side note, I hear that WesternU/COMP Clinical rotations policies changed and that you can only do 2(or 3?) electives in a given specialty your fourth year. If AZCOM doesn't have such a policy and you have more options fourth year, then chalk up another point in AZCOM's favor.

Here's another 2 cents for anyone going to ANY D.O. medical school: With competitive specialties like Surgery, Sx Subspecialties, Radiology, Anesthesiology, Ophtho, PM&R, etc. good board scores help with screening but to really stand out as a DO applying to MD residency programs, you really need to shine on an audition rotation. That will make all the difference. So go where you think you'll have options.

 

[Elysium]

Here's the name of the game, period: if you want to do something really competitive, don't go to a DO school. I'm saying this as someone who goes to a DO school. You ain't gonn be matching Ortho at the Mayo Clinic (interestingly, one of my friends is doing Ortho at the Mayo Clinic. But, he went to Hopkins) at COMP or AZCOM or TUCOM or anywhere else, even if you make a 280 on Step I. That's just the way the game is played. There are obviously some DOs who match the competive specialties (we had a DO neurosurgeon of all things come and speak to our class), but they are definetly the exception to the rule. IF you want to do primary care, ER, PM&R, anesths, etc. you have a shot as a DO. If you want to do anything else, you better rock the hell out of your first two years, step I, your audition rotations, your 3rd year, and apply to both allo and osteo. It can be done. But it isn't easy. The difference between these DO schools is really splitting hairs. It's all up to you, not your school.

 

[NRAI2001]

Here's the name of the game, period: if you want to do something really competitive, don't go to a DO school. I'm saying this as someone who goes to a DO school. You ain't gonn be matching Ortho at the Mayo Clinic (interestingly, one of my friends is doing Ortho at the Mayo Clinic. But, he went to Hopkins) at COMP or AZCOM or TUCOM or anywhere else, even if you make a 280 on Step I. That's just the way the game is played. There are obviously some DOs who match the competive specialties (we had a DO neurosurgeon of all things come and speak to our class), but they are definetly the exception to the rule. IF you want to do primary care, ER, PM&R, anesths, etc. you have a shot as a DO. If you want to do anything else, you better rock the hell out of your first two years, step I, your audition rotations, your 3rd year, and apply to both allo and osteo. It can be done. But it isn't easy. The difference between these DO schools is really splitting hairs. It's all up to you, not your school.

👍

 

[NRAI2001]

Has ortho become the most competitive residency to get now? Seems like everyone is always talking about ortho?

 

[Nazish323nazo]

Has ortho become the most competitive residency to get now? Seems like everyone is always talking about ortho?

yes, u r right but I think the pros and cons of any institute can't be singled out unless you yourself join the institute and go there on a regular basis.

 

[hank freid news]

I would like to say Western or AZCOM. I'm a first year at Western and last year's class matched very glowing in both surgery and Radiology, so a few notables being an ortho spot at an allopathic residency and USC Rad, among others. So I consider the match lists were posted so do a search.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I would like to say Western or AZCOM. I'm a first year at Western and last year's class matched very glowing in both surgery and Radiology, so a few notables being an ortho spot at an allopathic residency and USC Rad, among others. So I consider the match lists were posted so do a search.

all are comparable. I'm a second year at TUCOM. Spend some time on each campus if you can, get to know the faculty and students, and then make your decision. There is certainly something to be said for location, but by no means the sole criterion. I only applied Touro and Western. Had to decide between the two. Although I did glance at the match lists...(I thought Touro's was "better"), and spent a lot of time out at Pomona and also up on Mare Island, the decision was easy. While my friends down at Pomona complain of nothing to really do, we often go wine tasting in Napa, party in San Fran, and skiing and snowboarding in Tahoe. Hard to beat...

 

[bravotwozero]

AZCOM just doubled their class size. Granted, they also secured more rotation sites than needed, but since nobody has rotated at these sites, you won't be able to get any reliable information on the quality of clinical education you would receive. Therefore, I personally would not go there. Of course, the tuition at AZCOM is also another reason not to go there, but I digress.

 

[MossPoh]

Revive threads from the dead much?
😉

 

[jessjane]

Of the 3, what has the best clinical experiences? I am looking into radiology or surgery?

Surgery is the best experience of mine. I am newbie but i love my work. And its latest technique from which you can easily eliminate any person difficulty.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

never mind.

 

[travis]

Of the 3, what has the best clinical experiences? I am looking into radiology or surgery?

I just matched today into radiology from Touro NV as did a classmate of mine. There is a great imaging center in Vegas, the Nevada Imaging Center, a very advanced imaging center with research opportunities available.

I am very happy with the education our school provided and the success of our class matching. Ultimately, I would say that it is more about the individual than the school. If you are doing the DO match then you want to do a bunch of 2 week rotations at DO rads programs, if you are doing the MD rads match you want to rock your USMLE score, both of these can be done from any location.

IMO Touro was a fantastic fit for me!

 

[MossPoh]

I find it kind of funny that this thread was started around the time you were starting medical school. Congrats on the match though.

 

[bigDinLV]

I find it kind of funny that this thread was started around the time you were starting medical school. Congrats on the match though.

And you were probably starting college at that time? I find that funny.

 

[calichik]

I'm from Touro-CA, and so far our list this yr for rad and surgery look like this:

1 diagnostic radiology
1 otolaryngology/facial plastic surgery
4 general surgery
1 orthopedic surgery

These are only the AOA and military ones. We'll find out next month what the ACGME ones are if any.

 

[hotlikebutter]

westernu/comp AOA match if looking just at surgical and rad matches

entx1
gsurgx3
orthox2
neurosurgx1
diagnostic radsx1
opthox1
obgynx3

there seems to waves of interest in surgery, i think there is a surge right now for whatever reason.

 

[1hotaartichoke]

TUNVs match looks something like this (an approx):

ENT: 1
Neurosurg: 1
Ortho: 5
Gen surg: 1
Rads: 2
Anesth: 3
OB-Gyn: 3
Neuro: 1

not bad i think...😀

 

[haiboss]

AZCOM has many new postdoctoral program, so its good for doctors about to have a postdoctoral trg.So its my choice.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

TUNVs match looks something like this (an approx):

ENT: 1
Neurosurg: 1
Ortho: 5
Gen surg: 1
Rads: 2
Anesth: 3
OB-Gyn: 3
Neuro: 1

not bad i think...😀

Not a bad list. I'm also considering the surgery route.😀

 

[MasterShakeDO]

Note that the above are only the AOA matches and there are likely many more after the ACGME match!

 

[r90t]

It's not the program, but the individual student. Allopathic programs have more slots for specialists, thus is the route that I went.

Have just graduated radiation oncology this year and being from AZCOM, I was able to get into a program based on merit and not school. This lead way for a second DO to match into my program (on of my junior residents) and the ranking of a DO from COMP very high this past year.

Do take the MD Step I/II. I did not and it was a mistake on my part.

Do publish in a peer reviewed journal, preferably in or with relevance to the field that you are wanting to go into.

Study your butt off and be at the top of your class.

Study your butt off in residency and do better than your MD peers, so they are willing to take more DOs in the program. Don't be "that DO."

Do well in your clinical rotations and get well known letters of reference, not from Dr. Smith, FP, if you want to do rads/plastics/etc...

Rotate at the program you want to rank #1-3 on your rank list.

Don't coast during your clinical time. Make the most of 3rd/4th year. I have seen MD/PhD's with bad clinical skills, but are very smart. Myself and the other DO run circles around them in clinical examination skills and judgement.

Good luck.