What am I doing wrong? What do I do? Getting desperate

[mynameistoolong]

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I'm an international student with 3.75/39. I'm a senior now, and I've been doing research since my first month in the US. I didn't get a publication, but I'm not sure how I could possibly have improved my research background besides that.

I applied to 23 MD/PhD programs including 6 non-MSTPs, as other SDNers suggested when I made a thread about my school list. Got barely any luck with MSTPs—only 2 IIs from them and 4 from non-MSTPs.

I got waitlisted for the fourth time today. The other two that I haven't heard final decisions from: Upstate—from whom I should've heard a long time ago if I had gotten in; and BU—where I was deferred, but 2 SDN applicants got in already, suggesting that, with a class size of ~8, they probably filled most of the spots.

What on earth am I doing wrong? Am I terrible at interviewing? Why didn't they reject me then? Has anyone been rejected post-interview? I haven't seen any of this on the threads this year.

What should I do now? I've sent out so many update letters and letters of interest, and none have worked at all in getting me extra IIs, or saving me from the seemingly inevitable waitlists. I'm absolutely at a loss as to what I can even do anymore.

The past six months have been an awful emotional roller-coaster ride for me, and I feel like it's about to crash now... I knew it would be really hard as an international, but to actually experience this is just devastating. It's been especially difficult as I see other people on SDN getting multiple acceptances, while feeling like all my work hard for the past 3.5 years meant nothing... 😢

 

[mTORC]

Hey mynameistoolong,

I'm so sorry for your misfortune. It's ludicrous that it's so hard for international applicants. However, do you think you may have written something in your personal statements that can attribute any of this? What are your EC's like?

 

[cpi89]

I don't know specifically about Upstate or Boston, but I imagine there will probably a lot of movement on wait lists/deferred decisions in the coming months. Don't lose hope.

 

[mynameistoolong]

I don't think there's anything majorly wrong with my personal statement, I got it vetted by an English professor and someone commented that it was interesting in one interview. I have passable shadowing (30h) and clinical volunteering (100h). Besides those I have an IT teaching job, a standardized patient job (actually came up a lot during interviews!) and some club leadership positions.

I would say I have a decent MD application at least, since I got three IIs at top 15 MD-only programs (those I'm not expecting to hear from quite yet). MD/PhDs, on the other hand, I barely got any (i.e. only 1) in the top 20. Perhaps I'm just not cut out for research...

 

[cpi89]

I don't think you should let your application prospects define you. If you want to do research, you will. Those ECs seem pretty standard, likely your biggest issue is your international status. There's nothing to do about that and it's clear your application has many strengths to overshadow that.
Your MDApp profile says you have 5-6 wait lists (is that correct?). The fact that you're not getting rejected means the schools feel that you would be a good fit there and are qualified to attend. It's still January and many schools haven't even finished interviewing, it's nowhere close to being over. Just hold out.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Wait listing is very normal for MD/PhD admissions. The class sizes are small so schools can't accept many people to begin with. On top of that, a certain segment of the applicant population ends up with multiple acceptances. As a result, there's heavy movement on wait lists once people have to start giving up spots. I interviewed at one school where an adcom member explained that the school essentially wait lists everyone they're thinking of accepting and only outright accepts the most stellar applicants. They also use the wait list as a way to gauge applicant interest. From the way it said to me, at that school if you're on the wait list and don't send in an LOI, you're not getting in. In other words, the school uses their wait list as a way to keep their acceptance:matriculation ratio high. I'd imagine a lot of other programs do this too.

As for your question about people getting outright rejected after interviews, it happens. I think it's uncommon, but it definitely happens. I would know, that's been the outcome of half my interviews so far (the rest being ominous silence). If you've got multiple wait lists I think you've got reason to be optimistic.

 

[daolso]

I don't think there's anything majorly wrong with my personal statement, I got it vetted by an English professor and someone commented that it was interesting in one interview. I have passable shadowing (30h) and clinical volunteering (100h). Besides those I have an IT teaching job, a standardized patient job (actually came up a lot during interviews!) and some club leadership positions.

I would say I have a decent MD application at least, since I got three IIs at top 15 MD-only programs (those I'm not expecting to hear from quite yet). MD/PhDs, on the other hand, I barely got any (i.e. only 1) in the top 20. Perhaps I'm just not cut out for research...

For what it's worth, I had a similar experience with MD/PhD versus MD invites. My app is extremely geared toward research, I had little volunteering and less shadowing and I still got more interest from MD programs, even those whose GPA range I was completely out of. I assume it's just a result of how competitive the MD/PhD application pool is. Don't give up! There will definitely be waitlist movement as the year continues.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2013-2014-md-phd-acceptances.1037479/page-2#post-14826585

 

[surfBen1]

I noticed that you are an international student. Just for your information... Most MSTP programs do not accept non-US citizens or non-naturalized aliens who do not have their I-151. The NIH grant they receive cannot fund non-citizens. Their internal funding can fund international students... but they often avoid doing so. Furthermore, many non-MSTP programs will do the same thing, if they plan to apply for an MSTP grant in the future.
I would try to see which programs have accepted international students in the past and go from there.

 

[Maebea]

I noticed that you are an international student. Just for your information... Most MSTP programs do not accept non-US citizens or non-naturalized aliens who do not have their I-151. The NIH grant they receive cannot fund non-citizens. Their internal funding can fund international students... but they often avoid doing so. Furthermore, many non-MSTP programs will do the same thing, if they plan to apply for an MSTP grant in the future.
I would try to see which programs have accepted international students in the past and go from there.

I believe mynameistoolong did his due diligence and applied only to programs that fund international students. Still, it can be very difficult to gain acceptance. We receive applcations from ~50 internationals a year, and only 20% of them end up matriculating in MD-PhD programs. Last July's cuts to MSTPs may make it even more difficult in the future; programs that were cut may need to use more institutional funds to cover domestic students when they return to med school. I am aware of one program that decided this year that it would no longer consider funding international students.

 

[Fencer]

That is exactly what he did. Despite his international status, the OP, received a remarkable number of invitations to interview because the strength of his application. I am not sure how those interviews went, and his question is more pertaining to his interview approach. I suspect that financial reality hit many of the programs.

 

[gbwillner]

That is exactly what he did. Despite his international status, the OP, received a remarkable number of invitations to interview because the strength of his application. I am not sure how those interviews went, and his question is more pertaining to his interview approach. I suspect that financial reality hit many of the programs.

I think that this is unfortunately a good thing. There are way too many MD/PhD spots. The numbers have been growing steadily in the recent past. And t he funding rates and rates of matriculants actually going into research are precipitously dropping.

 

[mynameistoolong]

Thanks for the response everyone. Nothing I can do now. I'll just send more LOIs and keep hopes up for my MD-only interviews.

 

[kidsInCollege]

Thanks for the response everyone. Nothing I can do now. I'll just send more LOIs and keep hopes up for my MD-only interviews.

I think that is a good move. The only thing that is against your application is - to put it bluntly - you are an international. Much of the NIH funding and institutional funding come out of tax-payer money. For various compelling reasons, those funds and spots are not likely to be open to internationals. That will leaves just 1 or 2 spots in a handful of non-state schools (MSTP or not) open for international students. Essentially, your hit rate goes down drastically. From what I have noticed, very few schools accepted internationals (went through some rosters) who have unique background with serious life challenges (ex. war-torn African/middle east countries). I think your resume and background are great as you got several Ii. The reason for not getting an acceptance lies within the interview setting. Perhaps, Fencer can fill in about "unstated" criteria the Adcoms are under pressure to consider - if there are any (like distributing the spots among various PhD departments/specialties among others..)

 

[Fencer]

Sequestration and the overall decrease in NIH funding hit many institutions across the country. Institutional funds potentially used to support International applicants have been used to bridge investigators, laboratories, and their students. When people look at the AAMC statistics, you only see just over a dozen applicants without a state of residency. It is assumed that all of them are internationals, but actually, several US Citizens (born in the US when parents were studying here) are included with Internationals because they do not have a state of residency. I seen at least one applicant to my program of this category.

There are some endowments that are specific to help groups from particular areas of the world. As I indicated earlier, the OP is gifted but unfortunately the wrong passport. PhD programs would love him. If he gets into MD training, go for it. As a US graduate from an outstanding institution, try working for a biotech company who might sponsor your green card, or pursue the PhD, then MD route.

 

[histidine]

That really sucks being an international student. I would look into what Fencer suggested. Depending on what country you are from, a green card may only be a year's wait. For bachelor degree holders, I know the wait for Chinese is around a year and a half, but for Indians it's around 7. It really varies.

 

[Maebea]

AAMC reports that international students made up 15 of 609 matriculating students in 2013, 21 of 635 in 2012 and 14 of 633 in 2011.

 

[Juggs Gotcha]

I feel your pain, I'm an international applicant and got very few interviews and this whole process has way been too expensive. You seem to have done really well with interviews and with that many waitlist offers, it's very likely you'll be getting accepted soon. Post-interview, I think you may want to take the risk of telling one of your remaining programs that if they accepted you, you will show up. Otherwise, looks like you will end up at a top MD program where you can just apply into the MSTP, which usually has a high success rate. I think this year has been particularly bad for internationals because of the sequester, especially at the big programs which seem to have received cuts from NIGMS. You've done better than most other international applicants in this climate.

 

[mynameistoolong]

You actually got accepted into my top choice and it seems unlikely that they're gonna take two internationals in a year... So yeah... But thanks for the encouraging words.

 

[Solarium90]

We need to hit up some of that hot chocolate. 🙂 I remember meeting you on the interview trail, best wishes man hang in there.