What an interesting life I have... (strategy revolving debt, undergrad dropout, med school hopeful)

[Jeex]

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Hello SDN -

Thanks in advance for reading my thread - I have learned quite a bit over the few years stalking this forum and I really want to thank everyone who regularly contributes. I feel like I have quite the interesting life path to my hopeful destination of medical school, debt free and could really use some advice as I haven't been able to find anyone in the same situation as me on this thread. First off, I want to let the readers know that I am determined to get into medical school and plan on working as hard as it takes, for as long as it takes. I am turning 28 this June.

When I was 18 years old, I was the first one in my family to attempt to go to college. I wanted to graduate and become a computer engineer. No one in my family really had helped me get there, I actually moved out on my own when I was 17 due to some violence at home by my father - don't really want to talk about that, but nevertheless I got out of there. I finished the last year of high school in a different city, poor area, on my own working and attending school.

I attended a community college in the hopes of transferring to a nice school to learn computer engineering. With my 2.8 community college GPA, and a 1410 SAT score I was able to get into a very nice private school in Pennsylvania (I'm from the Southeastern United States by way of Canada).

I started to take out loans and was a little bit of a slacker (my attitude was "C's get degrees" back then and did enough to get by) but was passing my classes (2.8 unfinished undergrad GPA) and everything was going well. During my senior year I no longer had the credit score to get any more loans and was forced to drop out and find a job. I was left with roughly $30,000 in undergraduate federal/private loans and $20,000 that I currently owe the University because I couldn't secure my last year of classes. I have paid off around $10,000 of the "on paper" loans from the gov't and private sources.

I am currently living back in the South, and things are looking good for me. I actually am a computer engineer. I make around 80-85k a year at my job, and am saving roughly $2,000 a month to pay towards my debt. In January, I should earn a 10k bonus and a tax return of around $2,000. I have a decent amount in my 401k, and my car is paid off and I won't need a new one for a few years.

I am currently in the process of talking with my university and seeing if there is any way for me to finish my year left of school remotely through online classes towards any available bachelors degree but to be completely honest, I believe it will cost around $30,000 if distance learning is even possible. The most realistic scenario is that they will hold my transcripts from this school until I pay off my remaining balance of $20,000 AND I will not be able to complete the schooling because they will not offer enough classes for me graduate online. I live out of state and moving is not really an option due to the nature/opportunity of my current job.

I currently have a credit score of 575, up from 500, and it's continuing to rise. This is due to being unable to repay my loans until I was able to get a well paying job and taking on credit card debt after dropping out to buy clothes and supplies for interviewing. I don't hold any credit card debt and my current debts in my credit report are the sole $20,000 of student loans (private and gov't).

In addition to this scenario, I also need to take every single pre-requisite class to medical school again. I don't have any formal post-bacc programs near where I live and I really need to continue to work to knock this debt out. However, I should be able to transfer to a new college nearby that is quite respectable and will be able to offer me night and weekend classes. I would almost consider taking my community college transfer credits and attaining a brand new bachelor's degree in a med school-ready program over the course of the next couple years, nights, weekends, and summers, while continuing to work 9-5, and paying off the $20,000 "on paper" debt, and visiting my debt to the university in the future when I have the ability.

My main questions and concerns here are essentially this: what would you do if you were my shoes? What is the best "all around" strategy for me to get into medical school and ensure I don't have any debt/risk?

To summarize:

Currently:
- $20,000 on paper debt
- $20,000 owed to university for last semesters, transcripts frozen
- Poor (but improving) credit score
- Need one more year to get a bachelors from school from a school in a state I don't live in
- No credit card debt or other debt
- Able to save $2,000 a month currently, possibly $30,000 cash in exactly 12 months
- Nights and weekends are free
- No post-bacc near me
- 2.8 GPA in both community college and private university
- Single, no children, not much of a support system
- Will be 28 in June
- Willing to do whatever it takes


I would love to hear any/all advice.

 

[Jeex]

Currently I am just in saving mode - I am very interested to knowing as much as I can as far as the best strategy to knock all this out.

🙂

 

[deleted480308]

do all your classes public school....get all your debt payments current, there is a credit check for gradplus loans too and you need to be in order should you get accepted

 

[Jeex]

do all your classes public school....get all your debt payments current, there is a credit check for gradplus loans too and you need to be in order should you get accepted

What do you mean by public school? Community College OK?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

What do you mean by public school? Community College OK?

Yes it will be. But you need to complete a bachelors. That will require a University. Do Public to save money.

My first thought is to pay that debt off yesterday. I mean drop it. Especially the 20k freezing all your classes. The government loans will be fine if your current, but it sounds like you can do very little till your former university unfreezes the classes and you can get transcripts. I would then retake anything C or below and get A's while mixing in the necessary med prereqs that you are missing (if you haven't done chemistry, do that first with lab, as they are sequential and everything else can be done in 2 semesters).

You don't need a formal post bacc, you need a first BS unless I misunderstood you, and then you need retakes. But you need at least a 3.5 in all classes from here on out. Sounds like you are in a strong position job wise right now, so thats a good starting point.

 

[Goro]

Work for a few years. Save up $; pay off debts.
If you can, retake all F/D/C science coursework and apply to DO schools. This is the fastest route to your becoming a doctor. You can do a DIY post-bac at your local CC to save $.

If you're boning for the MD, then aceing a post-bac or SMP is mandatory, along with aceing MCAT.

Just remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Go seek out some financial counseling while you're at it.

You can always join the Nat Guard or Armed Forces Reserves to make some extra cash and get military scholarships, GI etc.

- No post-bacc near me
- 2.8 GPA in both community college and private university
- Single, no children, not much of a support system
- Will be 28 in June
- Willing to do whatever it takes

 

[Jeex]

Work for a few years. Save up $; pay off debts.
If you can, retake all F/D/C science coursework and apply to DO schools. This is the fastest route to your becoming a doctor. You can do a DIY post-bac at your local CC to save $.

If you're boning for the MD, then aceing a post-bac or SMP is mandatory, along with aceing MCAT.

Just remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Go seek out some financial counseling while you're at it.

You can always join the Nat Guard or Armed Forces Reserves to make some extra cash and get military scholarships, GI etc.

- No post-bacc near me
- 2.8 GPA in both community college and private university
- Single, no children, not much of a support system
- Will be 28 in June
- Willing to do whatever it takes

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. The goal is to save $$ for the next couple of years, I think I should be OK doing that. I can't do any military as I am technically a Canadian citizen but can get American citizenship if need-be.

I don't have any post-bac programs around that would let me do them while working.

I am really boning for the MD, and need to increase my GPA, so it's possible that I could do SMP after the required undergraduate classes? I'm sure they have SMPs in my area or at the state medical university that caters to this.

Additionally, I was thinking of working on the weekends as an EMT for cash and experience purposes. How much of an impact do you think that would have?

 

[Goro]

As a Canadian with an eye on US medical schools, your path is made harder in that so few international applicants matriculate. Thus, you're going to have to ace everything from now on, including MCAT.

And yes, you do the SMP after finishing UG.

Strongly suggest having a Plan B though.


I am really boning for the MD, and need to increase my GPA, so it's possible that I could do SMP after the required undergraduate classes? I'm sure they have SMPs in my area or at the state medical university that caters to this.


Impact your schooling? That's up to you. We expect you to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Additionally, I was thinking of working on the weekends as an EMT for cash and experience purposes. How much of an impact do you think that would have?[/QUOTE]

 

[Jeex]

As a Canadian with an eye on US medical schools, your path is made harder in that so few international applicants matriculate. Thus, you're going to have to ace everything from now on, including MCAT.

And yes, you do the SMP after finishing UG.

Strongly suggest having a Plan B though.


I am really boning for the MD, and need to increase my GPA, so it's possible that I could do SMP after the required undergraduate classes? I'm sure they have SMPs in my area or at the state medical university that caters to this.


Impact your schooling? That's up to you. We expect you to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Additionally, I was thinking of working on the weekends as an EMT for cash and experience purposes. How much of an impact do you think that would have?

[/QUOTE]


I'm a permanent resident (green card) because I was born in Canada. My dad is an American citizen and my mom is Canadian. We've been living in the United States since 2001. Does that change anything?

 

[Goro]

Then you're an American, and can join the US Armed Forces (which can pay a decent chunk of change)

 

[Jeex]

Then you're an American, and can join the US Armed Forces (which can pay a decent chunk of change)

I checked out the programs but they look to require US Citizenship. I'm a Canadian Citizen with a Green Card.

🙂~

Barring Military I guess I should just be saving right now? How many classes would I need to actually re-take? Let's say I got a mixture of D,C,A,B in all my classes. I only have a biology credit and it's a B+. Do I need to take all my undergrad or just finish the classes I need with a 4.0 (all science).

I believe I would have a 3.0 GPA after getting 4.0's in the science curriculum.

If I complete a bachelors from a brand new school, and can't get my official transcripts from the school I dropped out of, will this be an issue/prevent me from getting accepted?

 

[Goro]

Yes.
Barring Military I guess I should just be saving right now?

Retake only F/D/C science course work, as I advised above. Retaking an A or a B would leads Adcoms to question your judgment.
How many classes would I need to actually re-take? Let's say I got a mixture of D,C,A,B in all my classes. I only have a biology credit and it's a B+.
Do I need to take all my undergrad or just finish the classes I need with a 4.0 (all science).

That would get human eyeballs to look at your app, at that point.
I believe I would have a 3.0 GPA after getting 4.0's in the science curriculum.

You'd better be able to get those transcripts, because if it appears to the Admissions dean that you're trying to hide something, then you will never, ever be a doctor. There are clearinghouse s of information like this for Deans to look at.
If I complete a bachelors from a brand new school, and can't get my official transcripts from the school I dropped out of, will this be an issue/prevent me from getting accepted?

 

[Jeex]

So I have D's and C's on my transcript that aren't science related (business school), how will it look if I have 2.8 undergrad (non science) and then every science class post graduation 4.0?
Retake only F/D/C science course work, as I advised above. Retaking an A or a B would leads Adcoms to question your judgment.

Ok. If I was able (in my essay) to show dropping out of the old university due to financial hardship, would that be okay or would they still want them?
You'd better be able to get those transcripts, because if it appears to the Admissions dean that you're trying to hide something, then you will never, ever be a doctor. There are clearinghouse s of information like this for Deans to look at.

 

[Deranged Medic]

So I have D's and C's on my transcript that aren't science related (business school), how will it look if I have 2.8 undergrad (non science) and then every science class post graduation 4.0?
Retake only F/D/C science course work, as I advised above. Retaking an A or a B would leads Adcoms to question your judgment.

Ok. If I was able (in my essay) to show dropping out of the old university due to financial hardship, would that be okay or would they still want them?
You'd better be able to get those transcripts, because if it appears to the Admissions dean that you're trying to hide something, then you will never, ever be a doctor. There are clearinghouse s of information like this for Deans to look at.

When applying, you must report all courses taken and submit a transcript to either AMCAS (MD application service) or AACOMAS (DO application service.) I hate to bear bad news, but you are going to need those transcripts.

 

[Jeex]

When applying, you must report all courses taken and submit a transcript to either AMCAS (MD application service) or AACOMAS (DO application service.) I hate to bear bad news, but you are going to need those transcripts.

Understood. I just got off the phone with the school and they don't have any distance learning credits. As they are out of state and my current job is too valuable to give up, this means I am stuck with no degree and credits from a 4 year university and a community college. This means I will have to pay off my debt to the university and then transfer to a 4 year degree program to gain a bachelors.... oh boy.

 

[Deranged Medic]

Understood. I just got off the phone with the school and they don't have any distance learning credits. As they are out of state and my current job is too valuable to give up, this means I am stuck with no degree and credits from a 4 year university and a community college. This means I will have to pay off my debt to the university and then transfer to a 4 year degree program to gain a bachelors.... oh boy.

Look into some sort of bullcrap degree like Organizational Leadership, etc. There are quite a few degrees that will allow you to transfer in large amounts of random credits as "block credits." It's what I did, and I'm going to med school in a couple of months...

Sometimes the cards we are dealt suck. Keep it up; it sounds like your app will be pretty unique when you are able to apply.

 

[Bru]

So beyond all the grades, debt and green card issues, you might also considering getting some clinical experience now. It'll help you figure if this is for you and by the time you apply, you'll have a lot of hour/experiences accrued to help convince adcoms. I guess that is what I'd do. Pay off debts, work on US citizenship and do some volunteering (clinical and/or other types) for the next year or two then find a close four-year and transfer as many credits as you can. Then take pre-reqs and possible D/F grades that match to future school.

At the very least, you're looking at around 4 years before you'll be in good shape to apply just properly set your expectations.

 

[Jeex]

So beyond all the grades, debt and green card issues, you might also considering getting some clinical experience now. It'll help you figure if this is for you and by the time you apply, you'll have a lot of hour/experiences accrued to help convince adcoms. I guess that is what I'd do. Pay off debts, work on US citizenship and do some volunteering (clinical and/or other types) for the next year or two then find a close four-year and transfer as many credits as you can. Then take pre-reqs and possible D/F grades that match to future school.

At the very least, you're looking at around 4 years before you'll be in good shape to apply just properly set your expectations.

I was thinking about part time EMT on the weekends to knock out two birds with one stone. Get some more $$, and get good exp!

How does that sound?



Also, a local university has this program: (link to bachelors finishing program - scrubbed for anonymity) would this be fine to complete my degree and then take undergrad science courses afterwards?

After which, something like this?
(link to medical program, scrubbed for anonymity)

 

[Bru]

Sounds fine although it might be difficult to get paid as a part-time EMT depending on where you are. There are a lot of volunteer EMS services and some may reimburse you for the cost of your EMT-B training. Check around and see what the lay of the land is in your area.

 

[Ad2b]

RE Credit: Don't save, pay that stuff off. Your credit will thank you even if your savings account won't. 720 FICO > $3000 in bank

Become one with https://www.myfico.com/Member_Home.aspx and the forums there are on rebuilding credit. Read everything you can on PFD, GW, Settlements, etc.

List to the other advice given about grades, university, finishing bachelor's degree; if you can handle EMT and courses and other full time job, then hit it up... otherwise, focus on getting solid A's now.

 

[Jeex]

I was considering writing a blog about my journey to keep me on the right path and some personal accountability. What kind of stuff am I not allowed to write about / will hinder my chances at getting accepted?

I would like it to be anonymous 😛

 

[Lord Boko]

I'm a permanent resident (green card) because I was born in Canada. My dad is an American citizen and my mom is Canadian. We've been living in the United States since 2001. Does that change anything?[/QUOTE]

This is interesting to me. I always heard that if either parent was a Citizen of the U.S. when a child was born then that child is a U.S. citizen by default.

 

[Ad2b]

Website on US Citizenship for children of US citizens born outside US:

http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents

It appears that if the individual has already turned 18, then his citizenship remains as is: Canadian.

 

[Jeex]

I'm a permanent resident (green card) because I was born in Canada. My dad is an American citizen and my mom is Canadian. We've been living in the United States since 2001. Does that change anything?

This is interesting to me. I always heard that if either parent was a Citizen of the U.S. when a child was born then that child is a U.S. citizen by default.

I have a birth certificate with my father (us citizen) listed as the father. I should be able to get Citizenship that way.

If I can't do it that way, I've been living in the united states since 2001, so I could apply without any "family help" as well.

 

[Lord Boko]

Website on US Citizenship for children of US citizens born outside US:

http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents

It appears that if the individual has already turned 18, then his citizenship remains as is: Canadian.

Huh. You learn something new everyday.

 

[Jeex]

Website on US Citizenship for children of US citizens born outside US:

http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents

It appears that if the individual has already turned 18, then his citizenship remains as is: Canadian.

Huh. You learn something new everyday.

Just to clear some things up not exactly related to the original post but maybe will help someone down the line

http://forums.immigration.com/threads/n-600-age-limit.296161/
http://www.uscis.gov/forms/n-600-application-certificate-citizenship-frequently-asked-questions

- I lived in the USA before I turned 18 and carried a green card before I turned 18 and my dad is american
- I am eligible to file for n-600 any time at any age

 

[NonTradJp]

Jeex, I just want to encourage you on your journey and say that you seem to have your thoughts well organized.

 

[Jeex]

Jeex, I just want to encourage you on your journey and say that you seem to have your thoughts well organized.

Thank you! Much appreciated!

 

[Jeex]

Look into some sort of bullcrap degree like Organizational Leadership, etc. There are quite a few degrees that will allow you to transfer in large amounts of random credits as "block credits." It's what I did, and I'm going to med school in a couple of months...

Sometimes the cards we are dealt suck. Keep it up; it sounds like your app will be pretty unique when you are able to apply.

That's amazing, I actually am looking into one of these degrees like that. I will also need to find out what science classes I can take afterhours or on weekends after I finish this 🙂

 

[Deranged Medic]

That's amazing, I actually am looking into one of these degrees like that. I will also need to find out what science classes I can take afterhours or on weekends after I finish this 🙂

I was looking at either 4 years of doing a Bio degree, or transferring my credits to finish my BS in a year, then 2 years of post-bacc to finish the prereqs. Plus, I had no interest in a Bio degree, but I was able to find a degree that was applicable to my current profession, which I enjoy but don't want to do for the rest of my life.

 

[Jeex]

Update: I was able to find out that I can take Bio1/2, Chem1/2, Physics1/2, and Ochem1/2 after hours at my local community college, and it looks only to be about 800 a semester so I can do this while saving $$ to pay off my debt and then take my college completion program.

Let me give you an example of my possible schedule this summer:

M-F:
6:00am - gym before work
7:00am - ready for work and to work by 8:00am
8:00am - 5:00pm - work
6:00pm - 11:00pm - Science Classes + Lab

Saturday-Sunday:
Errands / Study / Cook all my meals for the week

Thoughts? I'm taking my BSBA degree completion program in about a year (after debts paid off) and that will be from a 4-year state school. Will having the science classes at a community college (due to schedule while working) negatively impact my ability to get into a medical school?

 

[Cawolf]

Depending on your course load and the difficulty level of the classes, studying only on the weekend may not be enough.

 

[Jeex]

Depending on your course load and the difficulty level of the classes, studying only on the weekend may not be enough.

It would be 2 classes a semester. BIO1/CHEM1 with labs then BIO2/CHEM2 etc

 

[smallbiz2doc]

You'll at least be doing pre/post-labs, lab quiz study, etc... through the week, and that stuff takes a bit longer than you might expect in order to do well. You seem like someone who can pull it off though.