What are my chances? 3.98 GPA, 34 MCAT, Top tier schools?

[tbarlock]

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I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on whether or not I stand a chance getting into some top tier schools. Here is my academic information, extracurricular info, and schools to which I plan on applying. I'm wondering if my MCAT is too weak or not. Please be honest; I really don't know what to do.

Majoring in Biology with minors in Chemistry and Mathematics
Cumulative GPA: 3.98
Science GPA: 3.99
MCAT: 34; 13-P, 10-V, 11-B

Research:
1 Year at the Bodega Bay Marine Biology Laboratory
1 Year (still in progress) in another lab at the University of Denver (Working on Honors Thesis)

Extracurricular & Leadership:
4 Years on Rugby Team (Treasurer, V.P., Captain)
3 Years in Fraternity (Fundraising Chair, Philanthropy Chair)
2 Years in DU Public Health Brigades (President)
4 Years in Pre-Health Club (Treasurer)
3 Years in Biology Lab Prep Room
3 Years of being at biology T.A.
3 Years in Society of Physics Students

Volunteering:
PSL Hospital Volunteer Magician on Pediatric Floor (current)
Volunteered as an EMT in South Africa for 5 months
Volunteered as a teacher in South Africa for 5 months
2 public health missions in Honduras (current)

Schools to which I am applying:
· Harvard
· Johns Hopkins
· Duke
· Vanderbilt
· Georgetown
· CU Denver
· Stanford
· Mayo
· University of Washington
· Yale
· Columbia
· Northwestern
· UNC Chapel Hill

I know there is a lot here, but I am always told they look at the whole application and not just your MCAT and GPA, so I thought I'd include most of it. Please let me know if I stand a chance at these schools, and if not, what I need to do so that I am a contender.

 

[orangeman25]

Did you take time off after graduating? Just wondering. Your volunteer experience is quite impressive

 

[ciestar]

Honestly, with your stats I wouldn't bother with Georgetown. UNC heavily favors IS students, same with UW (although I'm not sure if UW is friendly towards CO residents, someone must confirm that).

Maybe add Pitt and Penn?

You have greats stats/ECs overall. I can't say much for your MCAT holding you back, but that's why you apply to a few mid tiers to help you out.

 

[Goro]

Chances are outstanding. Suggest adding Pitt, U Chicago, Penn, Cornell, Wash U, NYU and definitely your state school (if any). Suggest swapping Case Western for Georgetown (you can do better than the latter).

Schools to which I am applying:
· Harvard
· Johns Hopkins
· Duke
· Vanderbilt
· Georgetown
· CU Denver
· Stanford
· Mayo
· University of Washington
· Yale
· Columbia
· Northwestern
· UNC Chapel Hill

I know there is a lot here, but I am always told they look at the whole application and not just your MCAT and GPA, so I thought I'd include most of it. Please let me know if I stand a chance at these schools, and if not, what I need to do so that I am a contender.[/quote]

 

[tbarlock]

Did you take time off after graduating? Just wondering. Your volunteer experience is quite impressive

I am currently finishing up my senior year. I took the MCAT in August 2013 and I plan on applying to medical schools in June 2014. So, I will end up taking a year off for the application process, but no it haven't done so yet. And thank you, I appreciate it.

 

[sat0ri]

Wow, are 10 and 11 subscores up to par for top-tier schools? If so, what is commanding so much respect in these stats? I do see a near immaculate gpa and lengthy extracurriculars. Are sports/frat life highly looked upon? I also heard on these boards that trips to "proverbial Africa" are looked at by adcoms more as a vacation provided by mom and dad.
Not trying to sound too condascending; just trying to learn what would otherwise appear to be anomalous on these boards (in hopes of finding areas that need more attention in my own application)

 

[Jennyfishy]

Wow, are 10 and 11 subscores up to par for top-tier schools? If so, what is commanding so much respect in these stats? I do see a near immaculate gpa and lengthy extracurriculars. Are sports/frat life highly looked upon? I also heard on these boards that trips to "proverbial Africa" are looked at by adcoms more as a vacation provided by mom and dad.
Not trying to sound too condascending; just trying to learn what would otherwise appear to be anomalous on these boards (in hopes of finding areas that need more attention in my own application)

Their score is still solid esp. when paired with the solid GPA, as there are quite a few who get interviews with a 35 to the schools OP listed. Nobody is saying there is a guarantee of acceptance, but from the info provided (we don't know the hr commitment, just duration) it's not unrealistic to shoot for the top programs.

As for the abroad part, OP spent five months there teaching, which is a very different story from the countless pre-meds who go to some developing country for 2 weeks on a medical mission.

 

[amad01]

Wow, are 10 and 11 subscores up to par for top-tier schools? If so, what is commanding so much respect in these stats? I do see a near immaculate gpa and lengthy extracurriculars. Are sports/frat life highly looked upon? I also heard on these boards that trips to "proverbial Africa" are looked at by adcoms more as a vacation provided by mom and dad.
Not trying to sound too condascending; just trying to learn what would otherwise appear to be anomalous on these boards (in hopes of finding areas that need more attention in my own application)

I agree. I have basically same stats except 1 point less in my PS section mcat (3.95/33) and I don't even feel good enough to apply to any top 10 schools... OP's EC's are average at best (year of research, a sport, couple clubs, a trip to Africa, and magic for kids?)...

Goro Suggests adding Pitt, U Chicago, Penn, Cornell, Wash U, NYU... 35,36,36,35,37,35 MCAT averages respectively. OP is below average in every category other than GPA for all of those schools, which you suggest he add to his already top heavy list.

 

[Great White Buffalo]

Add University of Michigan. Go Blue!! Good Luck.

 

[nemo123]

I agree. I have basically same stats except 1 point less in my PS section mcat (3.95/33) and I don't even feel good enough to apply to any top 10 schools... OP's EC's are average at best (year of research, a sport, couple clubs, a trip to Africa, and magic for kids?)...

Goro Suggests adding Pitt, U Chicago, Penn, Cornell, Wash U, NYU... 35,36,36,35,37,35 MCAT averages respectively. OP is below average in every category other than GPA for all of those schools, which you suggest he add to his already top heavy list.

Penn and UChicago are now at 37s and Wash U is now at a 38. Pitt is also at a 36 now, I believe.

On another note, some adcom members are known to absolutely love jocks, and if the app falls in the hands of the right reviewers OP could have interview invites at top schools. You have a decent shot at the top 20 schools. Beyond a certain point, this process can be a crapshoot particularly for those with more middling LizzyM scores (between 71 and 74). The weak point in your app is your research experience, but the leadership experience (and magician experiences) might make up for that.

At this point, your list is pretty top heavy, and there are dozens of premeds on SDN who end up reapplying every year with 3.8/3.9s and 33/34s because they didn't apply broadly enough and though their stats were decent enough to get in somewhere (and it seems that there are more of these people reapplying every year than applicants with 3.5s/30s!). I would suggest you also add schools like Drexel, Temple, etc in addition to some of the schools Goro mentioned. Pitt, Cornell, NYU in particular. Don't apply to WashU. Their 10th percentile MCAT for accepted students is a 34...

Stanford very highly values research experiences, so I would take that off the list unless you have some crazy life experiences to make up for the slight lack of research. Mayo is also big on exotic life experiences/interesting background story, so I would take that off the list too unless you have an interesting story.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Penn and UChicago are now at 37s and Wash U is now at a 38. Pitt is also at a 36 now, I believe.

On another note, some adcom members are known to absolutely love jocks, and if the app falls in the hands of the right reviewers OP could have interview invites at top schools. You have a decent shot at the top 20 schools. Beyond a certain point, this process can be a crapshoot particularly for those with more middling LizzyM scores (between 71 and 74). The weak point in your app is your research experience, but the leadership experience (and magician experiences) might make up for that.

At this point, your list is pretty top heavy, and there are dozens of premeds on SDN who end up reapplying every year with 3.8/3.9s and 33/34s because they didn't apply broadly enough and though their stats were decent enough to get in somewhere (and it seems that there are more of these people reapplying every year than applicants with 3.5s/30s!). I would suggest you also add schools like Drexel, Temple, etc in addition to some of the schools Goro mentioned. Pitt, Cornell, NYU in particular. Don't apply to WashU. Their 10th percentile MCAT for accepted students is a 34...

Stanford very highly values research experiences, so I would take that off the list unless you have some crazy life experiences to make up for the slight lack of research. Mayo is also big on exotic life experiences/interesting background story, so I would take that off the list too unless you have an interesting story.

Oh boy! Are these schools having a MCAT contest?

 

[Whack Get Out]

Everything looks good, but definitely apply broadly, as nothing is guaranteed this year. Just a heads-up, UW has a HUGE regional bias, but don't let that deter you from applying.

 

[LizzyM]

Was the marine lab in HS? If so, it might not count as much.
Did you spend 5 mos in S.Africa or 10 mos? Were those actvities close to full-time or more like 2 hrs/wk?
Aside from the gpa from a middle tier school, you really don't have much that really stands out. (the frat + rugby paints a certain picture though).
Rather than suggesting Drexel and Temple, (so over done) I'd suggest Emory, Miami, Einstein, St. Louis. They have more of a research bend and you might have some geographic diversity to offer.

 

[nemo123]

Oh boy! Are these schools having a MCAT contest?

Not Pitt, but it seems to me that Penn, Pritzker, and WashU are. Yale too. It's probably the easiest way for a school to raise their USNews rank (combined with scholarship money to attract the tippy top acceptees). Harvard and Hopkins are givens, but they still seem to be a little more lenient when it comes to stats compared to the other 4. I wouldn't be surprised if by next year, MSAR will list 37 MCAT averages for almost all of the top 10 schools 😱.

 

[tbarlock]

Was the marine lab in HS? If so, it might not count as much.
Did you spend 5 mos in S.Africa or 10 mos? Were those actvities close to full-time or more like 2 hrs/wk?
Aside from the gpa from a middle tier school, you really don't have much that really stands out. (the frat + rugby paints a certain picture though).
Rather than suggesting Drexel and Temple, (so over done) I'd suggest Emory, Miami, Einstein, St. Louis. They have more of a research bend and you might have some geographic diversity to offer.

I began the marine biology research my sophomore year of college and got a grant to go to the marine lab in California to conclude it; and I am now doing research in comparative endocrinology at my undergraduate institution (University of Denver).

I spent 5 months total in South Africa and spent about 5 hours a week teaching and 5 hours a week as an EMT.

The one thing that I think makes me unique compared to all other applicants is the fact that I have been doing magic for 8 years now and have been a volunteer for Presbyterian St. Luke's Hospital as a magician on the pediatric and oncology levels. I know my MCAT isn't extraordinary, and my research experience is marginal at best, but I am hoping that them combined with this one unique feature will give me some looks. What do you think? These are the schools I want to go to and I will to do what it takes to get in. What should I do to be a more appealing applicant? Retake the MCAT? And thank you for your honesty.

 

[Goro]

THAT will definitely make for some really interesting interview questions!


The one thing that I think makes me unique compared to all other applicants is the fact that I have been doing magic for 8 years now and have been a volunteer for Presbyterian St. Luke's Hospital as a magician on the pediatric and oncology levels.

 

[nemo123]

The one thing that I think makes me unique compared to all other applicants is the fact that I have been doing magic for 8 years now and have been a volunteer for Presbyterian St. Luke's Hospital as a magician on the pediatric and oncology levels. I know my MCAT isn't extraordinary, and my research experience is marginal at best, but I am hoping that them combined with this one unique feature will give me some looks. What do you think? These are the schools I want to go to and I will to do what it takes to get in. What should I do to be a more appealing applicant? Retake the MCAT? And thank you for your honesty.

On a side note, I had a friend during high school who was into magic stuff and he used to show us some amazingly cool things. He had shoes that could magically tie themselves! When we saw that, we were all just like 😱 what just happened...

Another time, we picked a card from a deck of cards, and my friend didn't know which card we picked. He then showed us some ghost glass thing that summons ghosts (at least that's what he said) to make an image of the card we picked out from the deck onto the glass. That worked too. I have no idea how, but ghosts must exist then. If I was interviewing you, I would definitely ask you to show me a magic trick lol.

 

[LizzyM]

Magic is one of those quirky things that are either going to set you apart in a good way or in a bad way ("we don't need Patch Adams here"). The hard core top 20 schools might be looking for more research and less soft stuff but on the other hand, you never know when you are going to bump into a fellow magician or knitter or Civil War buff and then you are in like Flynn.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

Aside from the gpa from a middle tier school, you really don't have much that really stands out. (the frat + rugby paints a certain picture though).

Have to agree with LizzyM here.

· Harvard
· Johns Hopkins
· Duke
· Vanderbilt
· Georgetown
· CU Denver
· Stanford
· Mayo
· University of Washington
· Yale
· Columbia
· Northwestern
· UNC Chapel Hill

Don't get cocky, you're definitely above average, but you don't seem to be promising to be the next Nobel Laureate. I'm going to be blunt, your list is more top heavy than a semi trailer filled with a wild pack of moose. It's a list I'd only expect out of a Washington resident with a 3.99, a 40+, and an extracurricular list that rivals a PhD graduate mixed with a military officer on his third tour (honestly, interviewing at a couple of these places you might meet that guy). Expand, or there's a decent chance we'll see you in the Re-applicant forum asking how to improve on a perfectly fine application.

 

[tbarlock]

Have to agree with LizzyM here.



Don't get cocky, you're definitely above average, but you don't seem to be promising to be the next Nobel Laureate. I'm going to be blunt, your list is more top heavy than a semi trailer filled with a wild pack of moose. It's a list I'd only expect out of a Washington resident with a 3.99, a 40+, and an extracurricular list that rivals a PhD graduate mixed with a military officer on his third tour (honestly, interviewing at a couple of these places you might meet that guy). Expand, or there's a decent chance we'll see you in the Re-applicant forum asking how to improve on a perfectly fine application.

But thats just not true. Every one of those schools (except a few) has an average MCAT above mine. Most of them are around a 36. So that means, for every student who got in with a 40, mathematically there is a student who got in with a 32. I know I should, and will, apply more broadly to be safe, but these are the schools I want to go to. I have asked in multiple posts including my original post about what I should do to be more attractive to these schools and no one as given an answer. Everyone's answer has been, "apply elsewhere." I get that, but I am not about settling. I will apply elsewhere just in case, but I want to go to these schools. Can someone tell me what I need to do to do achieve this? Retake MCAT? More research? Because according to you, only people with 4.0 GPAs and +40 MCATs with military experience get into these schools which is far from reality.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

But thats just not true. Every one of those schools (except a few) has an average MCAT above mine. Most of them are around a 36. So that means, for every student who got in with a 40, mathematically there is a student who got in with a 32.

This is not true. Just because the 90th percentile extends a certain amount, that doesn't mean the 10th percentile extends the same amount. Also, those around the 10th percentile are the exception to the rule. Unless you're suddenly going to be born into an ethnically-underrepresented family, publish multiple times in Nature as first author, and somehow be related to the Dean of Admissions, you should be looking at schools medians, not their 10th percentile.

I know I should, and will, apply more broadly to be safe, but these are the schools I want to go to. I have asked in multiple posts including my original post about what I should do to be more attractive to these schools and no one as given an answer. Everyone's answer has been, "apply elsewhere." I get that, but I am not about settling. I will apply elsewhere just in case, but I want to go to these schools.

No one has told you to 'settle.' In fact, several users (including an admissions committee member at a top university) have told you to apply to additional top tier institutions and they were even nice enough to provide you with lists of top tier institutions that get much less applications than the ones you've listed. This is almost never advised, but they recognize your insistence on a recognized university. If you're willing to take another year off, you can apply only to all the top tier schools and see what happens. Sometimes it works, especially if your state/alma mater has a medical program. But, and this is a big but, the repercussions of you failing to get in is you end up being a Re-applicant with few ways to show improvement upon your application. That's a tough spot to be in.

In reality, unless you want to do academic medicine and research, no one really cares where you went to medical school. Even if you won't 'settle' for an 'inferior' program, you need to recognize no one cares. Anywhere you get an MD from that is accredited awards the same degree, it's what you do while achieving that degree that will separate you from others. Make sure you understand that, there is no stigma.

Can someone tell me what I need to do to do achieve this?

Retake MCAT?

You could do this if you're averaging 37+ on your practices, but there's more risk than reward. You'd be insane to retake 32+ if you weren't consistently dominating practice exams.

More research?

Research and teaching are what these types of schools look for. I'm not talking about 5 hrs/wk teaching in Africa, that kind of sounds like a vacation to me. We mean publications in meaningful journals and teaching in recognized programs like Americorps and such, full-time. Other than that it's numbers, interviews, and a lot of luck. Can't emphasize that last part enough, there are enough 3.8+ 36+ applicants to fill up every top-tier school in the nation year after year. It really is the proverbial crap shoot if you're not extraordinary.

Because according to you, only people with 4.0 GPAs and +40 MCATs with military experience get into these schools which is far from reality.

That's not what I said at all so reread my last post and take it in the context of the penultimate sentence of this post.

Edit: Grammar that bothered me.

 

[darklabel]

But thats just not true. Every one of those schools (except a few) has an average MCAT above mine. Most of them are around a 36. So that means, for every student who got in with a 40, mathematically there is a student who got in with a 32. I know I should, and will, apply more broadly to be safe, but these are the schools I want to go to. I have asked in multiple posts including my original post about what I should do to be more attractive to these schools and no one as given an answer. Everyone's answer has been, "apply elsewhere." I get that, but I am not about settling. I will apply elsewhere just in case, but I want to go to these schools. Can someone tell me what I need to do to do achieve this? Retake MCAT? More research? Because according to you, only people with 4.0 GPAs and +40 MCATs with military experience get into these schools which is far from reality.

Why are you against adding schools? It's not like it will make you less competitive or anything. If you end up getting an interview but already got into a school you like then just cancel quickly so someone else gets it, but it can come in handy so that if you're still not getting interviews then you'll have a chance to matriculated somewhere. No harm, no foul.

 

[solitarius]

Retake the MCAT? If you score lower, you lose. If you score higher, you will get rejected from a lot of less competitive schools.

As others said, this list is top-heavy (11 of the 13 schools are Top 25 schools or Mayo). At some point, if you don't come to grips with how competitive this process is before you apply, you will during your cycle. This process isn't just about where you absolutely want to go, it's also about maximizing your odds of acceptance. There's probability involved, and with this type of school list, the probability declines.

Put it this way, even if you added twelve mid-tier schools, your list would still be > 40% elite schools, a very high percentage.

 

[sourdoughllama]

But thats just not true. Every one of those schools (except a few) has an average MCAT above mine. Most of them are around a 36. So that means, for every student who got in with a 40, mathematically there is a student who got in with a 32. I know I should, and will, apply more broadly to be safe, but these are the schools I want to go to. I have asked in multiple posts including my original post about what I should do to be more attractive to these schools and no one as given an answer. Everyone's answer has been, "apply elsewhere." I get that, but I am not about settling. I will apply elsewhere just in case, but I want to go to these schools. Can someone tell me what I need to do to do achieve this? Retake MCAT? More research? Because according to you, only people with 4.0 GPAs and +40 MCATs with military experience get into these schools which is far from reality.

Agreed with the people above, a 3.9/34 with a list like that screams reapplication next cycle. I'm sure going to a top 40 instead of top 10 school isn't the end of the world. Ditto on schools like Einstein, Emory, Pitt, NYU, etc (and a few safeties like SLU). I agree with everyone else that to be confident with such a limited list you're looking at 3.8 or 3.9 and 37+, not 34

 

[nemo123]

Retake the MCAT? If you score lower, you lose. If you score higher, you will get rejected from a lot of less competitive schools.

As others said, this list is top-heavy (11 of the 13 schools are Top 25 schools or Mayo). At some point, if you don't come to grips with how competitive this process is before you apply, you will during your cycle. This process isn't just about where you absolutely want to go, it's also about maximizing your odds of acceptance. There's probability involved, and with this type of school list, the probability declines.

Put it this way, even if you added twelve mid-tier schools, your list would still be > 40% elite schools, a very high percentage.

Agreed. I never really fully grasped how hard this process is on someone's physical state and emotional status before I actually applied this cycle. I got sick of going to interviews after my 4th one. I got sick of writing update letters and tweaking my secondary essays. I got sick of checking my email every 5 minutes wondering if that (1 unread) in my email box was from a med school. Having some of your interviewers pry info out of you and initiating grilling sessions (just because they can) are not fun. This process is taxing, and it's cruel. It's definitely not something that someone should go through more than once.

 

[Lambda Phage]

Any shadowing?

 

[tbarlock]

I have not been on here in a while, but was wondering if any updates change anything. I did research throughout the remainder of my senior year, created an honor's thesis from it, and was the first author on a publication from it. I led a group to Nicaragua doing a joint medical/public health brigade as President of the group on campus. Since graduation, I have been employed as a medical scribe and have been working +50 hours a week in the ER. There are other extracurricular things I never initially mentioned like shadowing in the ER and a lead role in the spring play. Does this have any effect?

 

[candbgirl]

So did you apply in June? Why didn't you include these activities in your application?

 

[tbarlock]

So did you apply in June? Why didn't you include these activities in your application?

Yes I did apply in June and I did include them in my application. When I originally posted this, (November 2013) I was still working on my research, planning the Nicaragua brigade, and had no idea about this scribe job. I put the publication and brigade on my application and alluded to my new job because it did not start until July, but I have been able to talk about the scribe job in secondaries because a lot of them ask "what have you been doing since graduation?"

 

[Aerus]

Yes I did apply in June and I did include them in my application. When I originally posted this, (November 2013) I was still working on my research, planning the Nicaragua brigade, and had no idea about this scribe job. I put the publication and brigade on my application and alluded to my new job because it did not start until July, but I have been able to talk about the scribe job in secondaries because a lot of them ask "what have you been doing since graduation?"

Congrats on all your accomplishments thus far! You seem to have a pretty decent shot at the top 20 schools. Best of luck!