what are my chances this time around?

[bobrowra]

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Hi everyone,
I would like to know my chances at getting in this upcoming application cycle. I graduated from UCDavis last year with a 3.84 GPA and a 32P MCAT score: 12BS, 11PS, and 9VR. While in college, I worked 1 year in a research lab, 2 years as an intern for a cancer detection clinic, and 2 years as a tutor for various biochemistry courses. I also had volunteer and leadership experience through a pre-med fraternity. I applied to 15 schools and, although the cycle is not over, I dont think I will be getting in anywhere this year. I have already gotten rejected from most of those schools and my application has been put on an interview waitlist for a few schools.
As for this cycle, the only significant improvement is that I have been working full-time at a Biopharmaceutical company. Other than that, I am not involved in any other clinical/medicine-related activity. I also plan on submitting my application a lot earlier than last year and fixing my personal statement a little to make it flow better and less repetitive. However, the central idea is still the same and I plan on reusing a lot of it.
Thanks!

 

[K31]

Nothing looks obviously wrong with your application? What do you feel you did wrong this time?

When were your primary and secondaries submitted? Cali resident? Where did you apply? Any idea how strong your LORs were?

 

[bobrowra]

Hi, thanks for the response. I submitted my primary in late July and all of my secondaries by the end of August. I am a Cali resident and I applied to most of the Cali schools, some Ivys, and a few others. I think that I need to apply more broadly this time around. In term of Rec letters, I have 6 of them and Im sure that at least 3 of them are excellent. This time around I am removing 1 or 2 LORs that I feel arent as strong and Im getting 1 more from my work which I think is going to be the best rec letter I'll have. Is it generally a red flag if I dont have a rec letter for one of my extracurriculars? I want to remove a rec letter from the research lab that I worked at during college because I did not work closely with the PI. Also I think that my application might have came across as being very repetitive and choppy because I wrote too much about my ECs in my PS and rewrote about them in the Activities section of the app. I am fixing my app so that my PS will have one central theme and I will mention some activities, but not go into depth about them.

 

[pkwraith]

You mentioned you were waitlisted at a few schools.

How many schools did you get interviews to? If you got 3+ interviews, then the problem is likely more on the interview and less on the stats.

 

[bobrowra]

Oh Im on the interview waitlist for 2 UCs. I havent had an interview yet 🙁

 

[K31]

I am a Cali resident and I applied to most of the Cali schools, some Ivys, and a few others. I think that I need to apply more broadly this time around.

Yeah, this is probably your primary problem. Your stats are fine but not particularly competitive for California schools. California residents really have it rough. Next time around you need to apply to schools that have averages close to your stats (ie not Ivies) and accept lots of out-of-state students.

In term of Rec letters, I have 6 of them and Im sure that at least 3 of them are excellent. This time around I am removing 1 or 2 LORs that I feel arent as strong and Im getting 1 more from my work which I think is going to be the best rec letter I'll have. Is it generally a red flag if I dont have a rec letter for one of my extracurriculars? I want to remove a rec letter from the research lab that I worked at during college because I did not work closely with the PI.

First, that's too many letters in my opinion--I'd suggest 4 is a good number. The more you have, the less attention reviewers are going to pay for each one. Take this for what it is worth since I interview for MD/PhD admissions rather than MD, but I tend to only look in depth at one or two of the most significant letters and briefly scan the rest.

Second, not including your PI's letter may be a red flag depending on how significant the experience was. If it is designated one of you "most significant" experiences or was over a year or more, it would probably be noticed if it was left out (again, my perception may be colored by MD/PhD admissions). Also you may be surprised by the letter--PI's tend to pay more attention to the personnel in your lab than you may think, and many of them write so many recommendation letters that they get quite good at it.

Would you mind listing what the letters you had are?

Also I think that my application might have came across as being very repetitive and choppy because I wrote too much about my ECs in my PS and rewrote about them in the Activities section of the app. I am fixing my app so that my PS will have one central theme and I will mention some activities, but not go into depth about them.

That's possibly a contributor too. Make your PS more focused, then ask a few people who know you well and are willing to be brutally honest and ask them to review it (a good idea in general). I'd mention at most one activity, preferably clinical, that you consider especially significant.

 

[bobrowra]

Thanks for the advice!

Here's what I have in term of rec letters.

Rec letters that I think are good:
1. Lower-division English professor. He told me that he wrote me a very strong letter. However, I'm not sure if this letter will hold much weight because it is from a lower-division course.
2. The professor of the biochemistry classes that I tutored for. I was his student before I started tutoring for him. I have a pretty good relationship with this professor.
3. The director of the clinic I interned for. I worked there for 2 years and was involved in all aspects of the organization.
4. From one of the directors of the company Im currently working at. Im doing really well at work and based on the annual review, they believe I have been exceeding expectations.

Letters I dont know about:
1. From my Pchem professor. I attended his office hour regularly and he remembers me, but I feel the letter could be generic. Im definitely removing this letter
2. From my lab PI. I didnt get to work closely with him. I talked with him a few times and he saw me presented a few times at lab meetings but that's about it.
3. My Upper-division Writing in Health professor. I dont think I stood out in his class. Everyone in this class was pre-health and most people were better at writing than I am. I also know that a lot of people tried to get rec letters from him. Im debating whether or not I should remove this since I have a strong letter from another English professor. But I dont think that letter counts as much.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Unless you applied top heavy, I'm surprise you haven't been admitted. It seems you have your stuff together. I would definitely recommend applying to OOS places like Tulane or Thomas Jeff U and other private schools in the mid-tier.

 

[Buzz Me]

Sounds like you need to apply more widely and broadly. Besides the California schools and Ivy League schools, where else did you apply?

 

[deleted197541]

I think you should definitely consider applying to Iowa, Maryland, Saint Louis Univ, SUNY system (Stony Brook, Downstate), etc. They all seem to be fairly OOS friendly. I don't know much about California schools but I'm sad to see that someone with your credentials is having a tough time getting interviews.

 

[Stethes]

I totally empathize b/c I kinda feel like I'm in a similar situation right now. It's already mid-Feb and I haven't gotten a single interview invite- not one. I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that I'm most likely going to have to reapply again in June. I honestly don't mind putting in all the hard work to reapply, I love medicine and I think medical school is worth the hustle. The only problem is...I don't think there's much left for me to do to significantly improve my application.
I'm also a Cali resident, non-traditional, applying as economically disadvantaged. (Yes, I legitimately grew up poor.)
After completing my undergrad, I got accepted to a Master's nursing program. Went for a year, kicked ass, got on the Dean's list, straight A's, and satisfactorily completed all of the clinical rotations in the program. I then decided I really didn't want to give up on medicine, so I left the program a year in. Went back to school and signed up for all the required pre-med classes, worked my ass off and got A's in every class aside for a B in calculus. In addition to that, I also have 3+ years of volunteer work in a hospital (ER + recovery room), I've shadowed physicians and nurse practitioners, 5+ years experience in neuroscience research (which includes 3 publications and 8 abstracts/posters presented at regional conferences.), and 4 solid LOR's (made sure to include one from my nursing program).
But heres where it gets bad... the first time I took the MCAT I scored in the mid 20's, retook it again and scored in lower 30's. (Both times scoring about 6 points below my average practice exams, I dunno....). I knew my first MCAT score was going to kill it for me, so when I got my second score back in July I was kinda devastated- I knew it wasn't high enough to 'make up' for my first score. At this point, I realized I needed a stellar essay to help the adcoms see past the scores, so I recruited a few of my friends that are very talented writers and ended up with a PS that was a total gem (I def don't take full credit for it) and a well written work activity sxn + secondaries. And while I was very happy the outcome, it came with a hefty price - time. Primary app was sent out beginning of Sept, with all secondaries complete by end of Oct/early Nov. I applied to 30 schools which included all the Cali schools (of course), a few of the top 20 schools, but also made sure to throw in more than enough lower end schools.
Now, here I am, completely empty-handed. Not a single interview.
I've been rejected from 17/30 of the schools I've applied to thus far, and I'm assuming that the rest of the rejections are right around the corner considering that most schools have already wrapped up interviews for this current cycle. Granted, I knew I was most probably not going to walk out of this application cycle a total superstar- given my MCAT scores and the late application- but c'mon, this bad??
I'll absolutely reapply in June, not even a question. I'll also make sure to get it in earlier this time around. But, realistically what else is there left to do 'improve' chances? Retake the MCAT? Sigh, who knows...
It's all very disheartening.
I apologize for the long-winded story. Guess I needed to vent a little =p

 

[Buzz Me]

What's your GPA?

 

[bobrowra]

i know, it is so disheartening. I also applied to temple, georgetown, tufts, bu, drexel, and jefferson. This time around I am applying earlier and to more schools, trimming off some rec letter, adding my full-time job to my app, and fixing my ps a little. Im not sure if that is enough though 🙁

 

[Buzz Me]

While in college, I worked 1 year in a research lab, 2 years as an intern for a cancer detection clinic, and 2 years as a tutor for various biochemistry courses.

I know what you're trying to say, but please don't list yourself as an "intern" on your app.

 

[Stethes]

what's your gpa?

3.89

 

[alexrgross]

Hi everyone,
I would like to know my chances at getting in this upcoming application cycle. I graduated from UCDavis last year with a 3.84 GPA and a 32P MCAT score: 12BS, 11PS, and 9VR. While in college, I worked 1 year in a research lab, 2 years as an intern for a cancer detection clinic, and 2 years as a tutor for various biochemistry courses. I also had volunteer and leadership experience through a pre-med fraternity. I applied to 15 schools and, although the cycle is not over, I dont think I will be getting in anywhere this year. I have already gotten rejected from most of those schools and my application has been put on an interview waitlist for a few schools.
As for this cycle, the only significant improvement is that I have been working full-time at a Biopharmaceutical company. Other than that, I am not involved in any other clinical/medicine-related activity. I also plan on submitting my application a lot earlier than last year and fixing my personal statement a little to make it flow better and less repetitive. However, the central idea is still the same and I plan on reusing a lot of it.
Thanks!

Your biggest problem is being a Cali resident...You are a great candidate and your best way forward is to re-apply at OOS friendly schools, there is not much else you can do except non-clincal ECs and I am sure you already have those well done...thanks and

 

[KaseyA]

Could you tell us your ethnicity? I am not trying play the race card or start any controversies here, but I think applicants compete within groups and certain groups are held to higher standards

 

[mipp0]

Yeah, this is probably your primary problem. Your stats are fine but not particularly competitive for California schools. California residents really have it rough. Next time around you need to apply to schools that have averages close to your stats (ie not Ivies) and accept lots of out-of-state students.



First, that's too many letters in my opinion--I'd suggest 4 is a good number. The more you have, the less attention reviewers are going to pay for each one. Take this for what it is worth since I interview for MD/PhD admissions rather than MD, but I tend to only look in depth at one or two of the most significant letters and briefly scan the rest.

Second, not including your PI's letter may be a red flag depending on how significant the experience was. If it is designated one of you "most significant" experiences or was over a year or more, it would probably be noticed if it was left out (again, my perception may be colored by MD/PhD admissions). Also you may be surprised by the letter--PI's tend to pay more attention to the personnel in your lab than you may think, and many of them write so many recommendation letters that they get quite good at it.

Would you mind listing what the letters you had are?



That's possibly a contributor too. Make your PS more focused, then ask a few people who know you well and are willing to be brutally honest and ask them to review it (a good idea in general). I'd mention at most one activity, preferably clinical, that you consider especially significant.

I would respectfully disagree with 4 LORs being optimal. Optimal = 5 or more excellent LORs, and they play a big part in your acceptance after interview. I was personally told that all my LORs were outstanding and that they were eager to meet me come interview day. Not to brag, just wanted to share my own experiences. A lot of SDNers overlook the importance of LORs and the evaluations post-interview from them. In general, quality>quantity, but it pays to have both.

 

[bobrowra]

ok thanks everyone for your inputs. im asian so i know that im at a heavy disadvantage, especially for cali schools.
im going to send in 5 rec letters this time around. also, im only mentioning my clinical experience and current full-time research work in my ps. i felt like my app as a whole as very repetitive last cycle.

 

[Jlaw]

I totally empathize b/c I kinda feel like I'm in a similar situation right now. It's already mid-Feb and I haven't gotten a single interview invite- not one. I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that I'm most likely going to have to reapply again in June. I honestly don't mind putting in all the hard work to reapply, I love medicine and I think medical school is worth the hustle. The only problem is...I don't think there's much left for me to do to significantly improve my application.
I'm also a Cali resident, non-traditional, applying as economically disadvantaged. (Yes, I legitimately grew up poor.)
After completing my undergrad, I got accepted to a Master's nursing program. Went for a year, kicked ass, got on the Dean's list, straight A's, and satisfactorily completed all of the clinical rotations in the program. I then decided I really didn't want to give up on medicine, so I left the program a year in. Went back to school and signed up for all the required pre-med classes, worked my ass off and got A's in every class aside for a B in calculus. In addition to that, I also have 3+ years of volunteer work in a hospital (ER + recovery room), I've shadowed physicians and nurse practitioners, 5+ years experience in neuroscience research (which includes 3 publications and 8 abstracts/posters presented at regional conferences.), and 4 solid LOR's (made sure to include one from my nursing program).
But heres where it gets bad... the first time I took the MCAT I scored in the mid 20's, retook it again and scored in lower 30's. (Both times scoring about 6 points below my average practice exams, I dunno....). I knew my first MCAT score was going to kill it for me, so when I got my second score back in July I was kinda devastated- I knew it wasn't high enough to 'make up' for my first score. At this point, I realized I needed a stellar essay to help the adcoms see past the scores, so I recruited a few of my friends that are very talented writers and ended up with a PS that was a total gem (I def don't take full credit for it) and a well written work activity sxn + secondaries. And while I was very happy the outcome, it came with a hefty price - time. Primary app was sent out beginning of Sept, with all secondaries complete by end of Oct/early Nov. I applied to 30 schools which included all the Cali schools (of course), a few of the top 20 schools, but also made sure to throw in more than enough lower end schools.
Now, here I am, completely empty-handed. Not a single interview.
I've been rejected from 17/30 of the schools I've applied to thus far, and I'm assuming that the rest of the rejections are right around the corner considering that most schools have already wrapped up interviews for this current cycle. Granted, I knew I was most probably not going to walk out of this application cycle a total superstar- given my MCAT scores and the late application- but c'mon, this bad??
I'll absolutely reapply in June, not even a question. I'll also make sure to get it in earlier this time around. But, realistically what else is there left to do 'improve' chances? Retake the MCAT? Sigh, who knows...
It's all very disheartening.
I apologize for the long-winded story. Guess I needed to vent a little =p

Ok your stats aren't bad so you need to take a look at other areas, are your rec letters good? Your PS should be your own and from the heart. Adcoms will know in a second if its written by committee and will reject you for it. I would rewrite it on your own and honestly...this actually may have been what sunk you if they saw that it didn't match up with other areas of your app...i.e. a perfect personal statement but typos in your shadowing descriptions or a C in composition class. Do you have clinical experience you can put on there? ER volunteer is great but bringing patients sodas isn't exactly patient contact.

Finally, if you do reapply what have you changed? If you aren't getting in with an MCAT in the 30's its not the MCAT. Make a list of areas you need to improve upon and get moving quick because apps open in 3 months and applying with the same app is going to yield similar results.

 

[KaseyA]

ok thanks everyone for your inputs. im asian so i know that im at a heavy disadvantage, especially for cali schools.
im going to send in 5 rec letters this time around. also, im only mentioning my clinical experience and current full-time research work in my ps. i felt like my app as a whole as very repetitive last cycle.

I would say you should apply to more out-of-state PRIVATE schools. Public med schools tend to favor in-state applicants. Private schools less so. Also, you probably need to do more volunteering just to get interviews.