What are my options, if any?

[MetaCognition]

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What are my chances of getting into medical school?​

I am currently a double-major (B.S. Psychology & B.A. Religion), and I have only 1 ½ - 2 years before I complete both undergraduate degrees. While I am interested in pursuing medical school, my personal situation is somewhat unique. I have a young child to support (I am a single father), and there are various other factors I have taken into consideration:

1. I have virtually no science pre-requisites (I have only taken one introductory biology course). Taking science pre-requisites now is currently not an option for me.
   
   
2. Due to financial obligations to my 3-year-old son (I want to earn a higher salary to become a better provider), I plan on pursuing a M.A. in Clinical Psychology after completing undergraduate school (This will take an additional two years of studies). Yes, I do have a genuine interest in psychology, but I am more passionate about becoming a doctor.
   
   
3. I am currently 27, and taking into consideration the amount of time required to finish both my undergraduate and graduate degrees, I will be 31-to-32 years old before I am able to take the science pre-requisites necessary to be admitted into medical school.
   
   
4. I understand BCPM courses are essential for admittance into a medical school program, but time is of enormous importance. I could possibly take BCPM courses as a non-matriculated student (Out-of-pocket costs being the determining factor) after graduate school, and this would take as little as two years. On the other hand, pursuing a bachelor’s degree in the sciences – although more costly in the long run – would make up for the immediate Out-of-pocket expenses. However, this alternative will almost certainly take more time to complete.
   
   
5. Lastly, considering I will be 33-to-35 years old before applying to medical school, this may adversely affect my chances of admittance. I have often heard it is more difficult to get accepted after a certain age; perhaps there are ways to offset this.

I am interested in discovering what the best possible options are for me, in regards to pursuing medical school. Given my personal circumstances, is medical school even feasible? If so, are there other ways to cut down on the amount of time required, without negating the M.A. in Psychology? Mind you, I am passionate about medicine, and I have a sincere interest in wanting to help people. Particularly, I have an interest in helping cancer patients, as many of my own family members have battled cancer. I personally do not mind putting forth the effort to get into medical school. However, I want to make certain I am not wasting my time, only to be told I cannot be accepted because of age. Also, I plan on attending the University of Illinois College of Medicine, Urbana-Champaign.


Current Stats:

Overall GPA: 3.71

Major GPA (Psychology): 4.0

Major GPA (Religion): 3.6

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Honestly, you know your position better than anybody. If you're willing to be a student making very little (if anything), studying long hours, and going back to take all of the sciences classes you will be required to take while you child grows up, then I suppose anything is possible. Yes, based on what you wrote and considering that you hope to get a Masters degree, raise a child, and finish all your science prereqs, it will be an extremely difficult lifestyle to live.

The question you should really ask yourself, in my opinion, is why medicine? To begin, not many people can say where they plan to attend medical school, and definitely not so far in advance of applying (you can hope you'll go to the University of Illinois, but medical school isn't something, in my experience, you can just know you'll be competitive for), which suggest you aren't too well versed on the process at this point. Also, based on what you've written, you've given no insight into previous clinical experience you have, so how do you know you want to be a doctor? Why are you passionate about being a "doctor" rather than a psychologist (I can't imagine you're suggesting it's for the money, which would be a horrible reason to go through with your plan)? Of course it's possible that you just didn't write your life story here, and maybe you have some awesome reason for seemingly not looking into medicine until this point in your life, but regardless, just really make sure you want to embark on what seems like it will be an incredibly, incredibly long and arduous path given your situation.

 

[box8psych]

First off, there is absolutely not an age restriction for admissions. I have friends with classmates (albeit not many) in their late 30'sm and early 40's.

However, If you are truly dedicated to going into medicine and coming out the other end before you turn 40, pursuing the MA in clinical psych is going to make it very difficult. I realize that I do not know your exact financial situation, but the extra earning power you will receive from the MA will be essentially negated if you pursue the MD. While it may help with admissions into med school, it is basically reduced to two letters on your CV once you become a physician. In the two years you would dedicate to getting the MA, you could hypothetically get all of your prereqs done and even complete M1 (see below).

One option I can suggest (out of personal experience) is a career-changer post-baccalaureate program. The programs are structured (curriculum is set for you with all of the BCPM courses) and can be completed in one year. Given your GPA and compelling story, you should have no trouble getting into a program. Most of the formal programs also have linkages with medical schools that would allow you to transition straight to school without taking another year off to apply. I had multiple classmates in my programs with families that chose this route and so far are very happy with the outcome. The financial side of the equation is very subjective, so you will have to determine if it is feasible or not (most likely you will have to take out loans to pay for everything). For more info, I found the Post-Bacc forums here on SDN to be very helpful and informative.

As for attending one specific medical school, it is somewhat risky to place all of your eggs in one basket. This process, which I currently in the middle of, is unpredictable and given the highly competitive nature, I wouldn't limit yourself to one school. If your heart is set on attending UICOM though, I would suggest getting in contact with the admissions office there and discussing your particular situation.

I hope this helps you on your journey and feel free to PM with any questions. Good luck!

 

[Say]

Plenty of Non-Trads are accepted every year. Being 33-35 isn't too old. I've heard of 40 year olds being accepted to medical school. Your GPA is still quite competitive. As long as you understand the financial and time dedication (which you seem you do), then I think you have a fairly good shot barring you do well on the MCAT and can survive an interview.

 

[Dral]

I agree that is it is presumptuous of you to say where you are planning on going to medical school. I'm guessing you didn't mean for it to sound the way it does. I'm hoping you meant "I'm hoping to get accepted to UICOM".

Just to put things into perspective (you have probably already thought about this)...with the best case scenario, if you decide on...let's say palliative care medicine...your son will be graduating high school at the same time you will be applying for your first attending job.

A resident salary is not much. Granted, I'm in NYC, but I only earn $800 a month after rent to live on.

I was/am a non-trad myself. I started med school at age 33. However, I didn't have a child to support either. It's tough, but I don't see why it can't be done.

 

[SN12357]

If you truly want to be an MD and know it now, there's basically no point in getting that masters in psychology. It will just add to your costs considerably (both immediately and in opportunity costs). You wouldn't be practicing near long enough to make up for the lost years of salary and the cost of the degree (again, if your end goal is to be a doctor).

The nontrad forum here is a good place to get feedback on your plans. You sound like you'll need some type of post-bacc. Your grades are fine right now, so that's a major plus. No grade repair needed.

Also, you can't count on going to one specific medical school. If you'd only be willing or able to go to one particular school, you should seriously rethink even trying. The process just isn't predictable enough for that to be a viable point of view.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

This is totally doable. Early 30's is not an age that will be discriminated against at most schools. I would not worry about that at all.

If you're serious about medicine, I would skip the M.A. and go straight into pre-reqs. If you could find a job that would support you while working around your classes (scribe, research tech, etc) you could knock those out in 2-3 years.

Why can't you switch your major(s) to a science or at least take some of the classes in your last two years of college? Just keep taking classes as a degree-seeking student until they kick you out.

 

[wiloghby]

I did research at my local medical school this summer that is typically loaded with medical students between MS1 and MS2. One of my colleagues was a rising MS2 who had two daughters, ages 19 and 17! She was very active and took care of herself so it was hard to tell, but I'd say she had to be around 50.

She is a really great medical student, and I'm sure she will be a great doctor.

 

[MetaCognition]

Honestly, you know your position better than anybody. If you're willing to be a student making very little (if anything), studying long hours, and going back to take all of the sciences classes you will be required to take while you child grows up, then I suppose anything is possible. Yes, based on what you wrote and considering that you hope to get a Masters degree, raise a child, and finish all your science prereqs, it will be an extremely difficult lifestyle to live.

The question you should really ask yourself, in my opinion, is why medicine? To begin, not many people can say where they plan to attend medical school, and definitely not so far in advance of applying (you can hope you'll go to the University of Illinois, but medical school isn't something, in my experience, you can just know you'll be competitive for), which suggest you aren't too well versed on the process at this point. Also, based on what you've written, you've given no insight into previous clinical experience you have, so how do you know you want to be a doctor? Why are you passionate about being a "doctor" rather than a psychologist (I can't imagine you're suggesting it's for the money, which would be a horrible reason to go through with your plan)? Of course it's possible that you just didn't write your life story here, and maybe you have some awesome reason for seemingly not looking into medicine until this point in your life, but regardless, just really make sure you want to embark on what seems like it will be an incredibly, incredibly long and arduous path given your situation.

There is no doubt it is a long and arduous process for most medical school students.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

There is no doubt it is a long and arduous process for most medical school students.

I just think it's another level when you have a child to support and when you suggest you want a masters degree first and then need to still take the science prereqs. That's not meant to say you can't do it; like I said, anything is possible with the right mindset, and like everybody has said multiple on this thread, I don't think you have to worry about your age being the barrier.

 

[pietachok]

I'm a non-trad in my 30s, and I don't think there's a bias against it. I do think that people I know who applied in their mid 40s faced an extra challenge at interviews, but even they got into school.

I question the utility of going to get your MA in Clinical Psychology instead of going straight into your post bacc coursework if you are truly aiming for medicine and aren't thinking there's a possibility you'll stay in psych. I by no means am any financial expert, so some of this is pure, poorly informed hypothesis, but I think you have to really sit down and do calculations of money earned and lost earning potential for some of this...preferably with a good financial planner.

If you go into a formal postbacc program or medical school, you are eligible to take out student loans -- if I took out the full amount I'm allowed and lived more modestly, I could certainly provide for a young child (and I believe you can take out more if you have a dependent). At this rate, I presume you're going to take out student loans for your MA and then work as a psychologist (if you quickly find a job as an entry level psychologist) through your postbacc (which is probably 3 years if you do part time and have no pre-reqs completed), and if you work full time, that may hurt your grades and you might find yourself having much less choice in where you ultimately could matriculate & could end up at a much pricier school. Once in medical school, you cannot work except perhaps during your first and/or second summer . . . so you're taking 2 years of loans to pay for an MA to provide you with 2 years of income that you could cover with 2 years of loans instead (if you do a formal post bacc)? And then you will finish later, and ultimately in the end lose 3 years of doctor pay that would have exceeded the pay as an MA. I realize that logistically when along this path you get pay versus loans may make a difference for your son's quality of life and the amount of interest they accrue before you can pay them back, but I think you really need to go over this on paper with real numbers, b/c it doesn't make sense to me.

Net cost of your plan: Loans for 2 yrs of MA + Cost of 3yrs of part-time post bacc - 3yrs full time psych pay + Loans for 4yrs of med school - salary for duration of residency --> paid attending
Net cost w/out MA: Loans for 2 yrs of full time post bacc + Loans for 4 yrs of medical school - resident's salary for duration of residency --> paid attending 3 years earlier

And as others have mentioned, you can't plan on going to UIC. You have to realistically consider that you may not be able to get into a specific school and even that you might not get into a school in all of Illinois -- would you still pursue medical school if that were the case?

 

[MetaCognition]

I'm a non-trad in my 30s, and I don't think there's a bias against it. I do think that people I know who applied in their mid 40s faced an extra challenge at interviews, but even they got into school.

I question the utility of going to get your MA in Clinical Psychology instead of going straight into your post bacc coursework if you are truly aiming for medicine and aren't thinking there's a possibility you'll stay in psych. I by no means am any financial expert, so some of this is pure, poorly informed hypothesis, but I think you have to really sit down and do calculations of money earned and lost earning potential for some of this...preferably with a good financial planner.

If you go into a formal postbacc program or medical school, you are eligible to take out student loans -- if I took out the full amount I'm allowed and lived more modestly, I could certainly provide for a young child (and I believe you can take out more if you have a dependent). At this rate, I presume you're going to take out student loans for your MA and then work as a psychologist (if you quickly find a job as an entry level psychologist) through your postbacc (which is probably 3 years if you do part time and have no pre-reqs completed), and if you work full time, that may hurt your grades and you might find yourself having much less choice in where you ultimately could matriculate & could end up at a much pricier school. Once in medical school, you cannot work except perhaps during your first and/or second summer . . . so you're taking 2 years of loans to pay for an MA to provide you with 2 years of income that you could cover with 2 years of loans instead (if you do a formal post bacc)? And then you will finish later, and ultimately in the end lose 3 years of doctor pay that would have exceeded the pay as an MA. I realize that logistically when along this path you get pay versus loans may make a difference for your son's quality of life and the amount of interest they accrue before you can pay them back, but I think you really need to go over this on paper with real numbers, b/c it doesn't make sense to me.

Net cost of your plan: Loans for 2 yrs of MA + Cost of 3yrs of part-time post bacc - 3yrs full time psych pay + Loans for 4yrs of med school - salary for duration of residency --> paid attending
Net cost w/out MA: Loans for 2 yrs of full time post bacc + Loans for 4 yrs of medical school - resident's salary for duration of residency --> paid attending 3 years earlier

And as others have mentioned, you can't plan on going to UIC. You have to realistically consider that you may not be able to get into a specific school and even that you might not get into a school in all of Illinois -- would you still pursue medical school if that were the case?

Thank you for raising such valid points! I neglected to mention in my initial post a tuition waiver and paid internship would accompany the M.A. in Psychology program. However, that is not to say I have not taken into consideration the immediate Out-of-pocket costs for the PCBM pre-requisites, should I choose this particular path. To the contrary, if I were to bypass the master's altogether, the immediate Out-of-pocket expenses for a post-bachelorette program would be nominal to nil. Yet, while I am determined to become a medical doctor, I understand life does not always turn out as intended. Therefore, it seems perfectly logical to have a contingency plan, especially in the event I am not accepted into medical school or wash out of the program. Aside from the shorter amount of time required to attain the pre-med post-bachelorette, are there any other added benefits? Again, thank you for your time.

 

[pietachok]

Aside from the shorter amount of time required to attain the pre-med post-bachelorette, are there any other added benefits?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you clarify?

One of the reasons to do the post baccalaureate work fulltime is to prove you can handle a full courseload with rigorous science courses, b/c it is the best supporting evidence that you can hack med school. People who pick away at their pre-requisites may not be convincing, but usually that is a concern for non-traditional applicants who are applying with a history of mediocre grades. I really have little sense of how necessary it is for someone with your GPA/background.

Have you considered simultaneously doing the post-bacc and MA by perhaps extending the MA by a semester or year and doing 1-2 med school pre-reqs at a time? Or doing 1 year of MA part time w/ part-time postbacc, then some full time postbacc and then return to the MA fulltime during the "lag year"? Often when you do a post-bacc, depending on how many courses you get done and when, you may have a "lag year" while you wait on applications -- mixing the MA and postbacc work may allow you to be productive during that year. (lag year depends a lot on the school where you do it -- is everything offered in every semester, do you have to have done bio, GChem 2, or physics before they let you do Orgo I. If you can make it front-heavy, you're allowed to apply without *all* pre-reqs done). You may be able to optimize the way you do this to maximize your son's quality of life for the age he will be at the time you do this -- parents on the non-trad forum would know better about that.

Aside from planning this out and making sure it's logical/feasible for you and your son, you need to make sure it sounds rational at med school interviews. I don't have any personal experience with this, so you also really should ask on the non-trad forum where you're more likely to find someone even more similar to you, but I've anecdotally heard of some applicants being pretty harshly interrogated about getting another professional degree (usually nursing) between undergrad and med school apps when it was clear the applicant was really aiming for med school all along (which it might not look like if you do the programs consecutively instead of simultaneously)-- i.e. "why did you take a scholarship from someone who really wanted to practice psychology when we have a dearth of mental health professionals in our society?" Having a kid to provide for may be a good enough justification for having a solid back up plan.