What are some different models of a psychiatrists' lifestyle after residency?

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How are your colleagues' FT outpatient jobs set up?
You mean those doing something on the side? Or FT OP jobs in our system by non-hospitalists?
Personal PP is up to them.
Our system's outpatient docs are basically 8-5, no call, rotating coverage for the triage nurse line.
 
I will say folks on the board may worry more about maximizing income than is necessary (or think it’s more important to happiness than it actually is).

I know several extremely satisfied psychiatrists working about 35hrs a week making 180-200k+good benefits. They find their work meaningful and aren’t worrying that maybe they are missing out on 300/hr doing cash PP for the worried well. They all have nice houses, plenty of vacations, etc. If you can’t enjoy living on 200k, your not going to enjoy 350k either.
 
I will say folks on the board may worry more about maximizing income than is necessary (or think it’s more important to happiness than it actually is).

I know several extremely satisfied psychiatrists working about 35hrs a week making 180-200k+good benefits. They find their work meaningful and aren’t worrying that maybe they are missing out on 300/hr doing cash PP for the worried well. They all have nice houses, plenty of vacations, etc. If you can’t enjoy living on 200k, your not going to enjoy 350k either.

This of course depends on where you live. Some of us have family, friends, and prior lives in very high cost of living areas, like the Bay Area. Needing to make 350-400k is pretty much a requirement if you want to live here and have those things you mentioned above.
 
I will say folks on the board may worry more about maximizing income than is necessary (or think it’s more important to happiness than it actually is).

I know several extremely satisfied psychiatrists working about 35hrs a week making 180-200k+good benefits. They find their work meaningful and aren’t worrying that maybe they are missing out on 300/hr doing cash PP for the worried well. They all have nice houses, plenty of vacations, etc. If you can’t enjoy living on 200k, your not going to enjoy 350k either.

Also keep in mind there is growing movement of FIRE in the younger group of docs. Like myself I am working hard to maybe somehow be in a position to retire in 10 years (I wish) but closer to 15 years since graduating. This requires living and working like a resident and maximizing salary as who knows what may change in 5-7 years.


edit: 200k was alot in the year 2000. the equivalent of that with inflation in 2019 is almost 300k.
 
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Also keep in mind there is growing movement of FIRE in the younger group of docs. Like myself I am working hard to maybe somehow be in a position to retire in 10 years (I wish) but closer to 15 years since graduating. This requires living and working like a resident and maximizing salary as who knows what may change in 5-7 years.


edit: 200k was alot in the year 2000. the equivalent of that with inflation in 2019 is almost 300k.


Well yeah certainly if you want to make a lifetime of money in a couple years you need high income and low spending, but that is a very rare situation and shouldn’t be used to give general advice.
 
This of course depends on where you live. Some of us have family, friends, and prior lives in very high cost of living areas, like the Bay Area. Needing to make 350-400k is pretty much a requirement if you want to live here and have those things you mentioned above.

This is a fair point, I do feel for folks tied to NYC or SF by family. Guess you gotta marry a radiologist or tech executive to keep up. Zero sympathy if you willingly moved because you want to live in a cool place however.
 
I will say folks on the board may worry more about maximizing income than is necessary (or think it’s more important to happiness than it actually is).

I know several extremely satisfied psychiatrists working about 35hrs a week making 180-200k+good benefits. They find their work meaningful and aren’t worrying that maybe they are missing out on 300/hr doing cash PP for the worried well. They all have nice houses, plenty of vacations, etc. If you can’t enjoy living on 200k, your not going to enjoy 350k either.
Some of us will have 300k debt to pay...douche
 
Also keep in mind there is growing movement of FIRE in the younger group of docs. Like myself I am working hard to maybe somehow be in a position to retire in 10 years (I wish) but closer to 15 years since graduating. This requires living and working like a resident and maximizing salary as who knows what may change in 5-7 years.


edit: 200k was alot in the year 2000. the equivalent of that with inflation in 2019 is almost 300k.


I mean you could also have a job you don't hate that allows you to have a nice life. Retiring in ten years seems like a weird goal when you spend eight postgraduate years in training first.
 
I mean you could also have a job you don't hate that allows you to have a nice life. Retiring in ten years seems like a weird goal when you spend eight postgraduate years in training first.

I don't think I would actually retire in 10 years but it would feel darn good to have that 25-30x fire number by then. When your investment returns start generating a 200-300k salary i would say part time at most for me as in telepsych 3 days a week while on vacation indefinitely and the telepsych would basically be covering my expenses. That would be blissful. I agree i invested 12 years to get to where i am so it would be too odd to retire 100% before working at least that long.
 
Are most job postings inpatient or outpatient? And does inpatient only include working in the psych ward, or does it count for C/L and things like that as well?
 
Hey nebuchadnezzaill, how much experience to you have in psychiatry? Shadowing, rotations, that sort of thing.
Hey there. I am just a student, third year. I had a psychiatry clerkship and I also have some outpatient and inpatient shadowing experience as well as consultation liaison shadowing experience. I'm asking about jobs because I am not sure if I can do inpatient psych indefinitely (maybe for a year or two). It is scary for me because many of the patients have been abusive, threatening, and aggressive to me before. No physical violence, however.
 
Hey there. I am just a student, third year. I had a psychiatry clerkship and I also have some outpatient and inpatient shadowing experience as well as consultation liaison shadowing experience. I'm asking about jobs because I am not sure if I can do inpatient psych indefinitely (maybe for a year or two). It is scary for me because many of the patients have been abusive, threatening, and aggressive to me before. No physical violence, however.
most psychiatrists do not do inpatient at all. the vast majority of mental healthcare is delivered in the outpatient setting. psychiatry as a specialty has enormous breadth and depth that many students do not get a chance to appreciate. In addition, there are many different kinds of settings. For example inpatient consultation-liaison, intensive outpatient, partial hospital, residential treatment programs, corrections (jails and prisons), schools, nursing homes, solo office based practice, group single specialty practice, multispecialty practice, working for a hospital system, working for an academic medical center, community mental health, VA, military, various government entities (even ICE! :lame: ) In outpatient settings, psychiatrists are increasingly embedded or co-located in primary care of specialty medical clinics, or using integrated and collaborate care models. There are many opportunities to contract with other entities as your own scorp/pllc as well as employed opportunities. and then of course there are academic medical centers.

Even inpatient care occurs in different settings such as state hospitals, county hospitals, university hospitals, private for profit hospitals, private non-profit hospitals, and have different levels of acuity. Some inpatient units only have voluntary patients, others have a mix, others still are all involuntary, some may be just for forensic patients. some units are med/psych, eating disorders, addictions, or focus on patients with suicidal crises (e.g. mood/personality disorders), whereas others have patients with more psychotic disorders or severe personality disturbances. There are different payer mixes as well that shape patient population (some inpatient units are cash only, others take commercial insurance, others may be primarily medicaid/uninsured patients).

If you go to a real medical school, you should have the opportunity to have a mentor/advisor who is a psychiatrist and talk to you more about your career development, or arrange for to spend some time precepting psychiatrists in different settings as your schedule allows. If you are attending the APA next month, PsychSIGN typically arranges a med student dinner where you can meet psychiatrists from different specialties to learn more about the field. sdn is a great resource, but nothing beats having a real person you can talk to about these things. we psychiatrists are usually quite approachable and happy to spend some time talking to students about the field.
 
I hope you know that after 10 years of the pslf or w.e. 99% of loans are not forgiven....

This is a misleading stat, go read some of the full articles and not just the headlines.

That being said IIRC the presidents most recent budget proposal axed PSLF cold turkey, so I’m not relying on it personally as winds of politics can change. But I generally think it’s a viable option for MDs and if you keep up with the documentation throughout your repayment period doesn’t seem will be big issue getting it forgiven.
 
most psychiatrists do not do inpatient at all. the vast majority of mental healthcare is delivered in the outpatient setting. psychiatry as a specialty has enormous breadth and depth that many students do not get a chance to appreciate. In addition, there are many different kinds of settings. For example inpatient consultation-liaison, intensive outpatient, partial hospital, residential treatment programs, corrections (jails and prisons), schools, nursing homes, solo office based practice, group single specialty practice, multispecialty practice, working for a hospital system, working for an academic medical center, community mental health, VA, military, various government entities (even ICE! :lame: ) In outpatient settings, psychiatrists are increasingly embedded or co-located in primary care of specialty medical clinics, or using integrated and collaborate care models. There are many opportunities to contract with other entities as your own scorp/pllc as well as employed opportunities. and then of course there are academic medical centers.

Even inpatient care occurs in different settings such as state hospitals, county hospitals, university hospitals, private for profit hospitals, private non-profit hospitals, and have different levels of acuity. Some inpatient units only have voluntary patients, others have a mix, others still are all involuntary, some may be just for forensic patients. some units are med/psych, eating disorders, addictions, or focus on patients with suicidal crises (e.g. mood/personality disorders), whereas others have patients with more psychotic disorders or severe personality disturbances. There are different payer mixes as well that shape patient population (some inpatient units are cash only, others take commercial insurance, others may be primarily medicaid/uninsured patients).

If you go to a real medical school, you should have the opportunity to have a mentor/advisor who is a psychiatrist and talk to you more about your career development, or arrange for to spend some time precepting psychiatrists in different settings as your schedule allows. If you are attending the APA next month, PsychSIGN typically arranges a med student dinner where you can meet psychiatrists from different specialties to learn more about the field. sdn is a great resource, but nothing beats having a real person you can talk to about these things. we psychiatrists are usually quite approachable and happy to spend some time talking to students about the field.

Thank you so much! I HAD NO IDEA about the variety of inpatient settings there were. Holy cow! Unfortunately, my school is not that great. Though I do have an amazing mentor, our options are pretty limited. Then again, we did get a good mix of inpatient, outpatient, and consultation liaison. That's more than what many other schools provide (inpatient only at some random place).

I appreciate the thoroughness of this response. I was set on going to the APA gathering in May but my school won't allow me to miss that many days of the clerkship and won't make me make them up without taking away from STEP 2 studying time. It sucks. I hope I can go next year, especially in time for the student discount. You are right by the way. Psychiatrists are very approachable...
 
This is a misleading stat, go read some of the full articles and not just the headlines.

That being said IIRC the presidents most recent budget proposal axed PSLF cold turkey, so I’m not relying on it personally as winds of politics can change. But I generally think it’s a viable option for MDs and if you keep up with the documentation throughout your repayment period doesn’t seem will be big issue getting it forgiven.

I believe agent orange indicated those who took loans would be grandfathered in.
 
Just to clarify, I assume inpatient psych gets paid appreciably more?
 
When you call a facility to see if they have work/moonlighting options as a resident...who do you call/ask to speak to?
 
Just to clarify, I assume inpatient psych gets paid appreciably more?

At my institution, the difference is about $25k/year (outpatient clinic vs. inpatient work) in terms of base salary, but there are other indirect differences that ultimately result in a higher salary. I imagine the functional difference is higher than the difference in base salaries.
 
At my institution, the difference is about $25k/year (outpatient clinic vs. inpatient work) in terms of base salary, but there are other indirect differences that ultimately result in a higher salary. I imagine the functional difference is higher than the difference in base salaries.
25k is not that much to deal with inpatient psych compared to outpatient...
 
25k is not that much to deal with inpatient psych compared to outpatient...

True, but that's just the base salary. There are many other indirect financial benefits. For example, that salary doesn't include any required call, weekend rounding, or holidays. Weekend rounding and holidays are paid at $1k/day while overnight call coverage - AKA being available for the resident to call, if needed - is paid at a slightly less rate. That pay is in addition to the base salary.
 
If you did 5 hours of expert witness work a week , you could potentially work half time clinically (25 hours total a week).
 
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