What are the chances of a PA making into high level medical research?

[theepodiatrist]

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[theepodiatrist]

Becoming one of the lead researchers (or whatever they right terminology) rather than an assistant.

 

[chaim123]

Becoming one of the lead researchers (or whatever they right terminology) rather than an assistant.

What type of research? I don't believe PAs receive any research training in their programs. I believe there are PA doctorate programs that focus on clinical skills, but not research in particular either.

 

[theepodiatrist]

What type of research? I don't believe PAs receive any research training in their programs. I believe there are PA doctorate programs that focus on clinical skills, but not research in particular either.

Type as in what specialty of medicine?

 

[chaim123]

Type as in what specialty of medicine?

No as in do you want to run a lab? Or clinical trials? Or do data mining?

 

[theepodiatrist]

No as in do you want to run a lab? Or clinical trials? Or do data mining?

Um the first two I guess.

 

[chaim123]

Um the first two I guess.

I'm no expert. But it is generally MDs/PhDs/MDPhDs who run those. You may assist a doctor running a trial in the actually care of the patient, but I've never (rarely at least) seen a PA listed as an author in those studies.

 

[chromaticscale]

I'm going with my intuition, but I would saw chances are very low because PA's were made to help with the primary care physician shortage. Thus they are recruited for clinical skills but not for research. Considering PA school is only 2 years and there is lack of didactic learning of basic science and statistics compared to 4 years of med school, I don't think PA's can even lead a research team, specifically one in basic sciences or clinical research. MD or PhD holders have the credentials. Would you choose an MD over a PA for a randomized clinical trial project?

Maybe if you obtain a master's in biostatistics or epidemiology, you can improve your CV. But the research papers I see published in top tier journals e.g. NEJM, Lancet and many others only have had MD's or PhD's as the principal investigator. I don't see many PA's publish.

 

[libertyyne]

Look up the lead researchers or look at grant recipients. Most of them are either PHD or MD. If a pa wants do research they should probably get those degrees.

 

[Patros]

By "high level medical researcher", I assume you mean becoming a tenure-track professor in a science department, and being eligible for NIH grants? The odds are virtually zero.

Remember, one doesn't just stumble into a R01 grant. It requires a consistent track record of publications and grants/fellowships from medical/grad school, residency, and fellowship. PAs don't really do any of that, not unless that person also does a PhD.

 

[aldol16]

Very hard to break onto the research/academic scene without some sort of doctorate (PA degrees are typically master's - even DNPs have difficulty breaking onto the academic scene although there are plenty of nursing journals out there as well). Mostly because of the funding problem. Most universities don't hire NPs or PAs in research professorships. Professorships are already hard to come by and there are many many people with doctorates applying for the same position already, all of which will have more impressive resumes and history of productivity. That's not to say that a PA who led a former life as a PhD couldn't break onto the scene. It's just hard to get the funding if all you have is a Master's in PA.

 

[allantois]

PAs are not trained in research

 

[Perrotfish]

Um the first two I guess.

So when people ask about getting into 'high level' research, they usually are asking how you get a large amount of money to do research. Those grants, most commonly the K and RO1 grants from the NIH, are incredibly rare and competitive and go almost exclusively to career researchers at top schools. Most of them have PhDs +/- and MD, though I know of one person who got one with an MD and a masters in clinical research. The grants REQUIRE that they're not more than 25% clinical. I know of at least one children's' hospital that has never had a faculty member successfully apply for an NIH grant.

Of course you don't actually need a ton of money to do research. Some of the most influential articles in medicine have been written by primarily clinical physicians who did research as a hobby, or on small grants that paid for less than 20% of their time. If you work at a major academic hospital you can probably find a mentor, if that's something you want to pursue, and they'll help you get started.

 

[theepodiatrist]

Bump
So since PAs have so much lateral mobility then how come those that have moved between specialties a lot, and therefore posses wide ranging knowledge, dont have a presence in research? Is it just because of snobbery h on doctor's part?

 

[libertyyne]

Bump
So since PAs have so much lateral mobility then how come those that have moved between specialties a lot, and therefore posses wide ranging knowledge, dont have a presence in research? Is it just because of snobbery h on doctor's part?

Wide ranging knowledge is not what drives research. Narrow focused knowledge is where research occurs. I know of one PA that was interested in population based research and was going back to get his PHD. I think the people going to PA school vs MD PHD tend to be from separate pools having different work life priorities and interests. As mentioned above getting grants is difficult for PHD and MDs let alone PAs.

 

[chaim123]

Bump
So since PAs have so much lateral mobility then how come those that have moved between specialties a lot, and therefore posses wide ranging knowledge, dont have a presence in research? Is it just because of snobbery h on doctor's part?

That's the exact reason. Research requires you to focus on a specific questions for a long time - movement between specialties hinders this goal.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

So when people ask about getting into 'high level' research, they usually are asking how you get a large amount of money to do research. Those grants, most commonly the K and RO1 grants from the NIH, are incredibly rare and competitive and go almost exclusively to career researchers at top schools. Most of them have PhDs +/- and MD, though I know of one person who got one with an MD and a masters in clinical research. The grants REQUIRE that they're not more than 25% clinical. I know of at least one children's' hospital that has never had a faculty member successfully apply for an NIH grant.

Of course you don't actually need a ton of money to do research. Some of the most influential articles in medicine have been written by primarily clinical physicians who did research as a hobby, or on small grants that paid for less than 20% of their time. If you work at a major academic hospital you can probably find a mentor, if that's something you want to pursue, and they'll help you get started.

In addition, these grants also typically expect that the PI has a "terminal degree" in their field (most commonly, MD or PhD). I know that when I was working on the administrative/funding side of some large grants, we occasionally had issues with grant applications where the PI only had a masters (even though that may be the main "terminal" degree needed for their field - for us specifically it was mostly Genetic Counseling, PhDs in that are pretty rare). I don't think PA would really qualify as a terminal degree in medicine.

 

[Iz_FtB]

PAs aren't going to make it at high level anything