What are the factors for job placement post residency?

[med912]

I am starting as an M1 soon, and I'm looking pretty far down the road on this one, so forgive me, but it should be a pretty easy question.

So, I basically understand what goes into getting into a good residency program, but what factors go into getting a good job? Is it mostly about performance/references from your residency program? How much of a factor is the "ranking" of the residency you are doing? In other words, what would the assessment of a potential employee post residency look like and roughly how much weight is put on each element of their application? Are Step 1 scores, medical school performance meaningless for this part of one's career?

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[Smurfette]

when you graduate form residency, no one cares about your board scores or med school performance so long as you passed. Actually, once you match, no one cares so long as you passed (and then pass step 3 in residency)

Things that do matter (not specialty specific):
career goals (what kind of practice do you want/will you fit in)
references from residency/colleagues
board eligibility status (if not board eligible, makes things harder)
personality
med school quality ('name' schools can help you more than average, foreign training may limit you depending on practice)
residency program quality ('name' places can help you)
lack of disciplinary actions/licensure problems/other blemishes in your career

The longer you are out of training, references matter more and more and where your training was matters less, relatively speaking. If you've been in practice for 15 years, you are a 'known commodity' as to how you run your practice.

Academic medicine positions weigh research, schools/residency programs more so than private practice and may have very specific 'niches' they are looking to fill.
Private practice positions want someone who 'fits in' with the other physicians from a personality, work ethic and decision-making perspective...while where you trained can make you look more or less impressive on paper, the 'fit' is what always seemed to be emphasized the most in my job search.

Most places only interview a handful of docs for a position; you send out your resume and if they are interested, they will do a phone interview with you and then may invite you to a formal interview. You are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you. There are a lot of different types of practices out there, so you want something that fits with your goals and lifestyle. It's not like applying to med school or residency.

 

[med912]

Thanks for the response, that was very informative. So graduating from a top med school can make a significant difference? I am choosing between a top 10 school and a school nowhere near the top 20, will I feel that down the road? Currently, I am broadly interested in more competitive specialties. Will I have to do significantly more work/higher scores to overcome the "prestige" factor?

 

[nitemagi]

Basic market forces.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

when you graduate form residency, no one cares about your board scores or med school performance so long as you passed. Actually, once you match, no one cares so long as you passed (and then pass step 3 in residency)

If you didn't pass, one would assume you wouldn't graduate. How much would it hurt you if you had to take Step 1 twice or failed a class in med school?

 

[nitemagi]

If you didn't pass, one would assume you wouldn't graduate. How much would it hurt you if you had to take Step 1 twice or failed a class in med school?

Jobs don't ask for med school transcripts. They do ask for professional references, so presuming your problems stop in med school, it might never come up.

 

[Smurfette]

Jobs don't ask for med school transcripts. They do ask for professional references, so presuming your problems stop in med school, it might never come up.

No one cares how many times it took you to pass, nor will they ask your grades in med school classes.

Let me clarify about the med school rankings: while a 'top 10' school will make you look great on paper and may give you an edge, a non-top 20 school is not viewed negatively. In other words, people might think "oh wow, a Hopkins grad!" and be impressed but they don't say "too bad they're a NoName State U grad, I would've interviewed them if they went to "State U" instead". If they think you'll 'fit in' or if they like the whole package you present them with (entire CV, phone interview), they'll invite you to a formal interview. It works both ways: if you are coming from top med school and top residency program and are looking for a job in podunk USA, they may think you wouldn't fit in there, and not want to waste their time and money to interview you.

Looking for a job is NOT like trying to get a residency. For residency, they care about your scores and grades. For a job, they care about your actual skills and ability to perform your job well; I was never asked about any scores whatsoever in any interview for an attending position---no USMLE, no residency in-service scores, no board certification scores, no med school class rank or clerkship/course grades. No one cares at this point; they just want to know you are competent and have good judgment, which is something they will talk to your references about. I was asked if I was board certified or board eligible (which you should be if you go to a ACGME residency) or if I had fellowship training, and what kind of practice I wanted to have.

 

[med912]

No one cares how many times it took you to pass, nor will they ask your grades in med school classes.

Let me clarify about the med school rankings: while a 'top 10' school will make you look great on paper and may give you an edge, a non-top 20 school is not viewed negatively. In other words, people might think "oh wow, a Hopkins grad!" and be impressed but they don't say "too bad they're a NoName State U grad, I would've interviewed them if they went to "State U" instead". If they think you'll 'fit in' or if they like the whole package you present them with (entire CV, phone interview), they'll invite you to a formal interview. It works both ways: if you are coming from top med school and top residency program and are looking for a job in podunk USA, they may think you wouldn't fit in there, and not want to waste their time and money to interview you.

Looking for a job is NOT like trying to get a residency. For residency, they care about your scores and grades. For a job, they care about your actual skills and ability to perform your job well; I was never asked about any scores whatsoever in any interview for an attending position---no USMLE, no residency in-service scores, no board certification scores, no med school class rank or clerkship/course grades. No one cares at this point; they just want to know you are competent and have good judgment, which is something they will talk to your references about. I was asked if I was board certified or board eligible (which you should be if you go to a ACGME residency) or if I had fellowship training, and what kind of practice I wanted to have.

I see...So it's definitely not a major factor in terms of potential to go where you want to go. I have to say, the match lists for the two schools are quite different, with the T10 school showing almost everyone going to top residencies. But this is not a controlled experiment, so it very well could be just a correlation.

 

[Smurfette]

I see...So it's definitely not a major factor in terms of potential to go where you want to go. I have to say, the match lists for the two schools are quite different, with the T10 school showing almost everyone going to top residencies. But this is not a controlled experiment, so it very well could be just a correlation.

I was being true to the subject you (the OP) asked; what factors affect job placement AFTER residency. During med school and residency, test scores and 'pedigree' (school ranking) is important; test scores being more important than pedigree. This is not true in real life physician employment post-residency, where test scores are never even discussed or reported and pedigree is discussed but has little bearing compared to other factors I've mentioned in my other posts.

Another thing to be aware of:
Beware of trying to rank residency programs as 'top' or 'bottom' without doing the research. Places with top residencies are not necessarily the same as top med schools. And one top residency program in one field does NOT translate to a top residency program in another field within the same hospital. For example, there could be a 'top' ER program, and a mediocre or downright terrible OB/Gyne program at the same hospital. And rankings of residency programs are highly subjective (do a search of some of the resident forums and you will see what I mean---everyone has a different top 10 list).

Looking at the match list for med schools is a reasonable idea, although you likely do not know enough about which places are truly the top residency programs. However, looking at how many students match into competitive residencies is valuable. So if one school has a lot of people collectively matching into derm/ophtho/ortho/plastics/rad-onc/GU/neurosurg, that bodes well for the school. But this is a completely different thread topic than what you started out asking.

 

[med912]

I was being true to the subject you (the OP) asked; what factors affect job placement AFTER residency. During med school and residency, test scores and 'pedigree' (school ranking) is important; test scores being more important than pedigree. This is not true in real life physician employment post-residency, where test scores are never even discussed or reported and pedigree is discussed but has little bearing compared to other factors I've mentioned in my other posts.

Another thing to be aware of:
Beware of trying to rank residency programs as 'top' or 'bottom' without doing the research. Places with top residencies are not necessarily the same as top med schools. And one top residency program in one field does NOT translate to a top residency program in another field within the same hospital. For example, there could be a 'top' ER program, and a mediocre or downright terrible OB/Gyne program at the same hospital. And rankings of residency programs are highly subjective (do a search of some of the resident forums and you will see what I mean---everyone has a different top 10 list).

Looking at the match list for med schools is a reasonable idea, although you likely do not know enough about which places are truly the top residency programs. However, looking at how many students match into competitive residencies is valuable. So if one school has a lot of people collectively matching into derm/ophtho/ortho/plastics/rad-onc/GU/neurosurg, that bodes well for the school. But this is a completely different thread topic than what you started out asking.

You're right, I did switch gears there. The reason is because I'm also trying to decide on med school and teasing out the effect of ranking on one's career in terms of all other factors. In the end, it will be about fit, as I'm not even sure I'll want to go into one of those specialties, and for the most part, my path will be in my control. Thanks for all the advice and information, smurfette.