What business are we in?

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KHE

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I want to try a little exercise here......

There's lots of discussion on the optometry and pre-optometry forums about how much saturation there is and how there's too many schools and how optometry is going down the drain.

Let's forget about all of that for a second. Let me ask this question.....

As an optometrist, what business do you think you're in?

I'm not trying to be snide or to trick anyone or anything like that. This is just an experiment. Please post an answer to that question. And in a day or two, we will advance the discussion.

So again......as an optometrist, what business do you think you're in?
 
I don't understand the question. Are we being asked once we become an optometrist, what would we be interested in as a job? Like private practice, hospital, retail, etc.?

At first, I wanted to enter a combined Pharm D. / PhD Chemistry (in organic chemistry) program, but after learning about the job market for pharmacy, I decided that I will just go for a PhD in organic chemistry. When I first created an account on SDN, where was no option for me to put "PhD / Pharm D." so I just went with Pre-Pharm D. Aside from posting in the pharmacy forums, I also post in other sections as well because I'm interested in following the job market not just for health careers but the entire job market in general.

If I was an optometrist though, I would go for a private practice due to being able to speak, read, and write 7 languages fluently so I can attract a lot of customers.

Also is this new thread an expansion on this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=827872
 
No....I'm asking what business are you in?

Are you in the eye business?
The eye health business?
The eye glasses business?

What business are you in?

D. All of the above
 
Bzzzzzzzt. Wrong. Try again.

hmmm...ok I'm intrigued !
Is this career type / job desciption / philosophical ???
Not quite sure what your looking for, but wish I knew !
So I'll stay tuned...
 
hmmm...ok I'm intrigued !
Is this career type / job desciption / philosophical ???
Not quite sure what your looking for, but wish I knew !
So I'll stay tuned...

Yes please....everyone chime in. JAZZEYE, please try again. It's not a trick question. I should not have buzzed you wrong (even though you are. 😀) I should just did that because most people will list one of those things and it's none of those.

So again......what business are we in as optometrists?
 
Not sure what point you're trying to make, but you're coming off as the smug prof everyone hates.

"I'm going to make you feel stupid to make myself look smart."
 
Not sure what point you're trying to make, but you're coming off as the smug prof everyone hates.

"I'm going to make you feel stupid to make myself look smart."

Jesus H. I'm not trying to do that. I'm ultimately going to try to give people a different way of looking at the profession so that they can be happier and make more money.

In fact, a lot of what I'm going to say applies to ophthalmology as well so if any of our frequent readers from the ophthalmology forum want to chime in, please do so!
 
How about this Optometrist are in the business of helping others see better? lol
sorry but this question has many right answers in my opinion
 
primary care for eyes.

That's how I see it.
 
Probably the eye glasses/product based business since the majority of practice revenue comes from glasses/contacts.

Which might seem a bit underachieving considering ODs are primary eye care docs.
 
I want to try a little exercise here......

There's lots of discussion on the optometry and pre-optometry forums about how much saturation there is and how there's too many schools and how optometry is going down the drain.

Let's forget about all of that for a second. Let me ask this question.....

As an optometrist, what business do you think you're in?

I'm not trying to be snide or to trick anyone or anything like that. This is just an experiment. Please post an answer to that question. And in a day or two, we will advance the discussion.

So again......as an optometrist, what business do you think you're in?

I'm sure I'll regret doing this, but I'll put in my 2 cents here. Here's my take on the situation. (KHE, please step away from the buzzer 😀)

We're in the "people" business. We sell ourselves to our patients. In order to get someone to come to us and buy our glasses, our contacts, our whatever, instead of heading to 1800contacts or Sam's Club, or the other guy down the street doing exactly what we're doing, we have to sell our abilities, our confidence, and our practices to our patients. We can say we're selling health care, or eye care, or even glasses and contacts, but at the end of the day, we're not. What you're selling is what sets you apart from your competition, not what moves out your door in a nice neat clamshell case or in a new 4-box supply of Biofinities. If you're a neurologist who specializes in some weird disease subset that only 8 other MDs in the nation are experts in, then you're selling health care because that's what people are coming to you (specifically) to get. You could be a serious ass in an old, dingy office with horrible staff and patients would still come. They're not there for your personality, your confidence, your wonderful staff, or your nice office decor with updated equipment, they're there because they have no where else to go to get that care. In our case, believe me, patients have PLENTY of places to go and get the same level of care they can get from you. So, in that regard, I believe that most ODs (those not in the VAs, hospitals, community centers) are actually in the "people" business, just like somebody in PR or marketing.

All in all, however, there's really no single answer to the question of "What are we selling?" because not everyone is interested in "buying" the same thing across the board from ODs. My comparison applies to private practice patients who are actually swayed by their doctors chairside manner and other variables. Many people just want the cheapest deal they can get their hands on. Those folks won't care about how wonderful you are if you charge 38 cents more than the guy at America's Best.
 
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We're in the eye exam business - primary eye care. People need general eye exams, OD's perform them. The public, ideally, know this, and come in regularly for an eye exam. Ideally, the patients go to OD's they like or believe are competent or are on their insurance list. If they have a problem an OD can't handle, they get referred out. If they're a PITA, they may get referred out too ;^).:scared:

As long as there is no C-3PO/R2D2/Data android/or 'better' OD that woos the patient away, you're in business. EyeMD's don't really want to do general eye exams, afaik, so...step up to the plate.

Ideally, as an OD, you love or like doing this. If you don't.....whoops.:meanie: I think the OD education costs a hell lot more if you don't like optometry.😱
 
I want to try a little exercise here......

There's lots of discussion on the optometry and pre-optometry forums about how much saturation there is and how there's too many schools and how optometry is going down the drain.

Let's forget about all of that for a second. Let me ask this question.....

As an optometrist, what business do you think you're in?

I'm not trying to be snide or to trick anyone or anything like that. This is just an experiment. Please post an answer to that question. And in a day or two, we will advance the discussion.

So again......as an optometrist, what business do you think you're in?

I'm confused by this question. Are you asking what roles do optometrists play in the current USA job market?
 
I'm confused by this question. Are you asking what roles do optometrists play in the current USA job market?

No. I'm asking what business do you think optometrists are in.

If you asked a contractor what business he's in he would probably say the construction business. If you asked a computer salesman he'd say he's in the computer business.

What business are we in?
 
EyeMD's don't really want to do general eye exams, afaik, so...step up to the plate.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that OMDs don't want "routine" patients and that they'll be happy to let you sweep them up. Many would like nothing more than to take your patient in for a routine exam (done largely by a tech) and convert them to their own. In an ideal world, OMDs would stick to surgery and complicated medical care while ODs would stick to primary care, but it's not an ideal world.
 
I don't know what KHE will ultimately answer. But I will tell you that optometrists are 100% in the business of customer service. Or in other words, ass-kissing!

The ONLY reason patients will be coming to see you are because they like the way you look or smell or they share a hobby with you or you are within walking distance of the checkout line. And even then they will ONLY come if you are on their insurance plan. If they don't have insurance, they will ONLY come if you are the lowest price.

As Jason said, you will be NOTHING special as an OD. There will be 100 just like you within everyone's driving distance.

The only hope you have for success as an OD is to be extremely likeable.........even on the days you feel like crap. You must be an actor of the highest caliber 😳.
 
Ok....so let me preface this by saying that this applies to those of you in practice outside of places like the VA hospital or HMOs or academia. If your job is dependent on actually seeing patients, this applies to you. Of course, as always....IM(nsv)HO


Everyone who said that they are in the "eye business" or the "eye health business" or the "primary eye care business" or the "health care business" the "helping people see better business"...you're all wrong.

Let me tell a story...it's a long one but please bear with me.

A few years back I went to Vision Expo in Las Vegas. I stayed at the Wynn Hotel which is a big fancy place on the strip. I loooove to eat and being a big fat guy, the Wynn hotel was a perfect match for me because there are so many tasty things to eat there!

So I'm having dinner one night by myself in this restaurant and before dessert, the waiter brings over a little plate that had about 5 or 6 little chocolate treats on it. A few of them had nuts sticking out of them and I don't really like nuts with my chocolate so I tried one that looked just like a solid chocolate ball. It was filled with marzipan. Marzipan is probably one of my most favorite things in the world! And when you combine it with chocolate....perfect. So I ate that one and to my delight, the other "solid" chocolate ball also had marzipan in it.

When the waiter came back he noticed that I only ate the two marzipan balls and commented I must have really liked them. I told him I didn't really like nuts with my chocloate but that I loved marzipan. He laughed and went off to get the peach melba I had ordered for dessert. When he came back with the peach melba, he brought two more marzipan balls. And we both laughed again.

Ok so that happens. Now....fast forward a year and I check back into the hotel for Vision Expo again. I get up to my room and sitting on the bed is a little box with a little ribbon on it and a little note.

Of course, I assumed it was some silly little thing but the note was a hand written letter from the manager of the restaurant saying that they knew how much I liked their marzipan balls and to please enjoy some on them and how they hoped I could join them for dinner sometime during my stay. I opened up the little box and inside were eight little marzipan balls.

Of course I went back for dinner.

But wait....there's more......

After vision expo I had two free days in the hotel and I went on an incredibly hot run at the craps table and won $5000. I am NEVER that lucky in a casino. I once won $3500 playing poker against some drunken frat boys but usually when I gamble I win a couple hundred or lose a couple hundred and that's that. But here, I caught a hot pair of dice and combined with a couple of very lucky hands of Let It Ride, I had $5000 in my pocket.

In the hotel, next to the casino there was a Cartier store. I wandered in. Now, I had NO BUSINESS being in Cartier. I had no money. I had just bought my practice a couple of years prior and I was still paying it off. We had a mortgage. I had two small kids at home. I should NOT have been there.

But my wife and I were coming up on ten years of marriage and when we got engaged, I was a 4th year student with no money to my name so the only engagement ring I could afford was whatever I could charge in my American Express card from Zales at a shopping mall in Woodbridge, New Jersey. I thought that maybe she deserved a nicer ring.

So I'm browsing around in this Cartier store and the saleswoman comes over we start talking. I tell her my story and she nods sympathetically and says "let me show you a few things." So we go over to a counter and she pulls out about 4 or 5 rings. All very beautiful.

The cheapest one was $10,000. I said that there was no way I could do that because it would be a divorce ring. No trial separation. No marriage counseling. D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Again, the saleswoman laughed understandingly and suggested perhaps a watch. They had very beautiful watches ranging from about $2000 to sky's the limit. I told her my wife probably would not wear a watch that fancy.

So she pulled out a few different necklaces. And I ended up spending $2000 on a small, simple Cartier necklace with a teeny tiny diamond chip in it. It was very beautiful but it wasn't over the top. I knew my wife would wear it out and not only would it look nice, I wouldn't have to worry about her getting mugged.

So the woman proceeds to wrap it up in a pretty little box with a pretty little ribbon and then proceeds to pull out a stick of sealing wax and a lighter and seals the box shut with SEALING WAX. I mean, WTF is that? What was this….the year 1635? When was the last time someone used sealing wax on anything?

So I get home and give the gift to my wife. Of course she loved it.

But wait….there's more…..

Two weeks later, there's a call on my cell phone from a number I don't recognize. I pick it up and it's the saleswoman from Cartier!

"Did she like it?"

"Oh yes….thank you so much. She loved it a lot."

"Oh that's great. I'm so happy to hear that. Please come in again the next time you're in town."

"Oh yes. I will!"

So I hang up and in my head I'm thinking "come in again? Are you kidding me? I had no business being in there in the first place. I ain't going back! " LMAO.

Fast forward another year and again, I'm back in the hotel for vision expo and another hand written note on my pillow FROM HER welcoming me back and inviting me to come say "hello."

Now again….I had NO BUSINESS going there. I had NO MONEY. I was NOT going to buy something. Yet I WANTED to go in there and say hello. I felt like an ******* for even thinking about NOT going in to say hello.

So I did. And she greeted me by name. Asked how my wife was? Did she come with me this time? No? Oh that's too bad. And she asked if I wanted to look at anything and I, slightly embarrassed, declined and told her perhaps sometime I would bring her in when she could accompany me and we could do something about that ring.

The saleswoman, without blinking an eye and with the smile on her face never wavering said that she would like that very much and that she hoped to see me again soon.

So I walked out with a shiny happy feeling in my stomach having not bought anything.

BUT I ALSO LEFT WITH THE FEELING THAT I NEVER WANT TO BUY ANY PIECE OF JEWELRY EVER AGAIN FROM ANY PLACE OTHER THAN THAT CARTIER STORE AND NOT JUST THAT CARTIER STORE BUT FROM THAT WOMAN!!!

And why? All she did was put some sealing wax on a box with a pretty red ribbon and left a little hand written note in my room. Big deal, right? Yes. BIG DEAL.

And THAT my friends in the business you are in. You are in the "shiny happy feeling in the stomach business!"

Think about it! I probably bought the CHEAPEST THING IN THERE. And that woman treated me like I was buying a $4 million dollar diamond studded tiara. I was the Cartier equivalent of a vision plan patient! I bought the cheapest thing. But she didn't care. Or at least, she sure didn't show it and she rolled out the red carpet for me and my silly little necklace. And come hell or high water, I don't want to shop anywhere else and I feel like a jerk for even THINKING of shopping for jewelry anywhere else!!



There's another thread on here that talks about cell phones and how annoying patients can be. One poster, who's had all kinds of bad experiences with Walmart talked about having patients sign forms and posting signs on the wall saying NO CELL PHONE USE.

Well, we've taken a bit of a different approach. Cell phones, annoying as they can be are a fact of life. We've added a cell phone charging station in the waiting room which always gets a positive reaction and which is used daily by probably 50% of our patients.

And you know what? It hasn't had a negative increase in cell phone usage in the exam rooms at all. It's still less than 1 in 100 patients.

People complain all the time about small children in the exam room and how annoying they are. Doctors lament the "ignorant parents" who let their children "run wild" in the doctors office. Other optometric forums are loaded with stories of doctors sternly information patients to "curb their children" or asking patients to come back when they have a babysitter.

Well, instead of just having a few old, germ infested issues of "Highlights" in the corner of the waiting room, we've converted one of our unused exam rooms to a kids "play room" and one of our technicians is a licensed babysitter. I'm not sure what "licensed" means in this case. She just had a bunch of certificates from a bunch of courses she had taken. So she volunteers to watch kids in the play room while mom and/or dad get their exams and pick out their glasses. No charge.

If you're a busy, working parent who's probably already scheduled time off from work or rearranged a schedule to come in for an exam, which office do you want to go to? The one with the kids play room staffed by a free licensed babysitter, or the one with the doctor who asks you to reschedule some other time?

Which practice is more likely to give you the shiny happy felling in your stomach?

Some people may bristle at that notion. That's CRAP! We're DOCTORS DAMNIT! Patients should be grateful that they can avail themselves of my Acuvue fitting and blepharitis management skills. Patients should RESPECT MY AUTHORITAY! (Cartman voice.)

Get over it. Remember what business you're in.
 
everybody is entitled to their opinion, and while it is true to some extent, I think its important to temper this rather long winded kumbaya story with a little reality. If you want to focus on "perception is reality", then be my guest and dazzle them with magic lights, excessive testing, give them golden silk strings for their eyeglass case, and provide godiva chocolates as "compliments of the house". Of course the reality is those extra "services" might not impress the 80yo with glaucoma, who is pissed off about repeating her visual field, and gives you the finger after being told her deductible hasn't been met. Or the vision plan pt who thinks that their vision plan covers them for those fundus photos of their diabetic retinopathy. Or the jackass who wants you to measure their "seg heights" for some frame he wants to order online and put progressive lenses into. You get the point.
 
Get over it. Remember what business you’re in.

True, that's the business we're in and it is what sets aside everyones practice.

But the sad reality is that most of the new grads will not even get to experience "the business". I mean just look at what the pre-opt students answered with. They really have no idea what awaits them when they graduate....:scared:
 
True. I think you've done well with a "niche" type practice catering to 'high-maintenance" patients. People would love to have foot rubs as my dentist friend does. And they'd love to have their car washed for free while they have a eye exam.

You can do it. You can do it all. But at some point, the costs outweigh the benefits.

My story:

I like to drive a (pre-owned) Lexus. When I bought it from the dealer, they made a bit to-do about it. They stretched out my visit FOREVER and showed me all around the showroom. Even took me and introduced me to to my 'personal mechanic' in the auto service area. TOTAL waste of my time. I don't take my car to an overpriced dealer for service. I couldn't have cared less about their over-the-top approach. I couldn't give a CRAP about spending my entire afternoon eating cookies and talking to idiots telling me how great the car was after I already bought it. But I can appreciate that some insecure people eat up all that attention.

I just wanted them to give me the keys to my car so I could get the hell out of there. Just as most of our patients want their glasses/CL Rx so they can get the hell out of our offices and onto the web or to the warehouse store.

So different strokes for different folks. For every person that is wowed by the excellent 5-star service, there are probably 50 that just want the cheapest and get out quick.

Same reason there are Luxuary hotels and motel 6's. Problem is, every OD can't be a 5-star hotel because there aren't enough patient's that will appreciate it. Just not possible.

Just goes back to my saying, 'not everyone can- but anyone can'.
 
everybody is entitled to their opinion, and while it is true to some extent, I think its important to temper this rather long winded kumbaya story with a little reality. If you want to focus on "perception is reality", then be my guest and dazzle them with magic lights, excessive testing, give them golden silk strings for their eyeglass case, and provide godiva chocolates as "compliments of the house". Of course the reality is those extra "services" might not impress the 80yo with glaucoma, who is pissed off about repeating her visual field, and gives you the finger after being told her deductible hasn't been met. Or the vision plan pt who thinks that their vision plan covers them for those fundus photos of their diabetic retinopathy. Or the jackass who wants you to measure their "seg heights" for some frame he wants to order online and put progressive lenses into. You get the point.

But that 80 year old woman with glaucoma has a choice of about 25 different optometrists and ophthalmolgists to choose from, all of whom are adequate at treating her glaucoma. Which one will she choose?

The whole point of it all is so that the "jackass" who wants his seg heights measured to buy online WON'T EVEN THINK TO DO SO and will in fact feel like an IDIOT for even THINKING about going ANYWHERE other than to you. Just as I felt like an idiot for even thinking about going anyplace other than that one particular store.

Does it work 100% of the time on 100% of the people? Absolutely not. Nothing will.

Again....it's about creating an environment such that people want to give you money and don't even think to give their money to anyone else BUT YOU.

Tippytoe tells us of the Lexus mechanic that doesn't go to. Perfect example of how it doesn't work on everyone. But I can say with certainty that that Lexus dealership makes a lot of money on repairs because people (probably mostly women) want to get their repairs done THERE with the "cookies" and the "personal mechanic" instead of at the smelly gas station garage down the street with the busted toilet and the scary looking mechanic just coming down off of his meth high.

Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit. Obviously not every mechanic not associated with a dealership is coming down off of a meth high.

Interesting that we're talking Lexus. My partner drives one. He won't go anywhere else BUT the dealer. Why? Because when he needs service, they come to the office and pick his car up and leave him a loaner Lexus at no additional charge. They take his car away, do the service and then bring it back and pick up the loaner. He doesn't even have to GO to the dealer. And it's all free of charge.

Of course it's NOT free of charge. It's built into the price of the service. They ain't losing money on that. But it makes his life EASIER and more convenient and just more "nice."

If you can create that environment in your practice, you're got it made.
 
I want to point out as well that this isn't entirely dependent on people having money. There are rich people who will (as I've said many times before) pinch a penny until Lincoln screams for mercy.

But again....in a month, the new iPhone will come out and you can bet good money that there will be people lined up around the block to get that new iPhone 5 even though their iPhone4 works just fine, the iPhone5 will be buggy AND it will require that they lock themselves into a ridiculous contract.

Yet people, not all of whom will be rich will be down at the apple store falling all over themselves to give more money to Steve Jobs. You have to create that same sense of desire in your practice.
 
I want to point out as well that this isn't entirely dependent on people having money. There are rich people who will (as I've said many times before) pinch a penny until Lincoln screams for mercy.

But again....in a month, the new iPhone will come out and you can bet good money that there will be people lined up around the block to get that new iPhone 5 even though their iPhone4 works just fine, the iPhone5 will be buggy AND it will require that they lock themselves into a ridiculous contract.

Yet people, not all of whom will be rich will be down at the apple store falling all over themselves to give more money to Steve Jobs. You have to create that same sense of desire in your practice.

I'll be one, especially since its coming to my crappy Sprint service! 🙄

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44246833/
 
I will tell you that optometrists are 100% in the business of customer service. Or in other words, ass-kissing.

Customer service = ass-kissing ? 😱

I have worked in the customer service industry for years in several kinds of jobs,
and I have owned a customer service business and had the experience of managing employees.

If you really feel that way, you should fire yourself :laugh:
That attitude just reeks of fundamental ignorance.

The message the OP is trying to send,
you can choose to buy into it or not.

But if your in a highly competitive customer service business, whatever it might be.
If your goal is to be successful, its not a bad idea to use some his suggestions as a template.

It beats lying down for the slaughter like a Wildebeast.
:idea:
 
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Customer service = ass-kissing ? 😱

I have worked in the customer service industry for years in several kinds of jobs,
and I have owned a customer service business and had the experience of managing employees.

If you really feel that way, you should fire yourself :laugh:
That attitude just reeks of fundamental ignorance.

The message the OP is trying to send,
you can choose to buy into it or not.

But if your in a highly competitive customer service business,
whatever it might be and your goal is to be successful its not a bad idea to use some his suggestions as a template.

It beats lying down for the slaughter like a wildebeast.
:idea:

I don't find fundamental ignorance with the idea that ODs are in a position of necessary "ass-kissing" at all. We're not providing a service that's hard to come by, anyone who doesn't see that is blind to the problems swamping the profession right now. "The customer is always right" is probably a lot more applicable to ODs than many other similar professions right now. That doesn't mean you simply give into any patient's desires without regard to your bottom line, but it does mean you have to treat each patient like a piece of fine china, in essence "kissing their ass." The 50 year-old lady who gets a perfect pair of progressives from a professional, efficient, neutrally friendly OD is not going to go tell all of her friends about him unless he's Fabio and he practices shirtless. They're going to send their friends to the out-going, super friendly, efficient OD who asks about how the kids are doing (even though he probably doesn't really care), and basically, does a little brown-nosing. If you read up a few posts and consider my ass-h*le neurologist, he doesn't have worry about kissing anyone's ass at all. He'll have a great patient base no matter what happens as long as there are diseased individuals to fill his books.
 
I don't find fundamental ignorance with the idea that ODs are in a position of necessary "ass-kissing" at all. consider my ass-h*le neurologist, he doesn't have worry about kissing anyone's ass at all. He'll have a great patient base no matter what happens as long as there are diseased individuals to fill his books.

Your an OD right, why are you even making comparisions to a Neurologist, what does it really matter to you ?

To be a successful Optometrist it requires more good will, why do you percieve that as "necessary ass-kissing or brown nosing" ?

Why not take personal pride and satisfaction in treating people the way you would like to be treated ?

Why shouldn't you establish a rapport and even have some interest in your patients as a real person ?

How much does that effect the bottom line cost ?

Are just trying to make a point ?
or do you resent that your ass-h*le Neurologist can be an ass-h*le and still have a great patient base to fill his books.

Why not just be what you are ?
an Optometrist "providing a service less hard to come by" and leave the ass-h*ling to the Neurologists :laugh:

It might be irrelevant to any Optometry discussion, but I happen to have a Neurologist that I absolutely love.
He is a genuinely compassionate good person and he goes out his way everytime I see him to make me feel as good as he can physically and mentally,
even though he doesn't have to kiss nobodys ass.

I go out of my way to recommend him to everyone I know, even though I don't have too !
 
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Your an OD right, why are you even making comparisions to a Neurologist, what does it really matter to you ?

To be a successful Optometrist it requires more good will, why do you percieve that as "necessary ass-kissing or brown nosing" ?


Perhaps I'm swayed in my opinion because the absolute most successful ODs, the guys grossing 4-5 times the average, kiss their patients' asses. More accurately, they make their patients believe they're kissing their ass, without actually doing so. When I talk about kissing a patients ass, I'm not talking about falling all over yourself, I'm talking about treating them well above and beyond the "usual." For example, at one very large OD office I worked in, one OD (the owner), a team of 5-7 refracting techs (who treat each patient like their own mother or father), and I saw anywhere from 50 to 80 patients per day, 5 days per week. He also kept the doors open on Saturday and Sunday, although he wasn't there. He charges what some would call ridiculous amounts of money for services and only spends 4-5 min with each patient. People pay it, and they do so happily. Why? He's got a long-standing patient base and he holds on to them by rolling out the red carpet; coffee and a wide assortment of cookies/pastries are laid out in the waiting room, neatly organized 4x per hour by a staff member. We're not talking about Folgers here, it's the gourmet crap, at least that's what it looks like. Cookies? No Oreos or Chips Ahoy, just gourmet stuff all set out in little paper dishes. Expensive? Probably not, but it sure looks like it, so do the giant flat screens in every room. There are up-to-date magazines on every topic imaginable, even one on RC planes. If that's not ass kissing, I don't know what is. He's the one laughing all the way to the bank, though. The guy rakes in more money than most ODs would ever dream of. He's probably the sole reason that hundreds of optometrists from his area decided to go to optometry school, only to find out later that they have no way to reproduce a practice that's over 60 years old.

Why did I mention the neurologist? Because he's the complete antithesis of the OD that might be next door to him. He has no pressing forces encouraging him to go above and beyond for his patients. He doesn't have to. If he does, good for him, but he doesn't need to in order to survive. As optometrists, we do not have that luxury. We have to make our patients feel like they're the only thing we have going that day if we want them to return to us next year (if we're lucky) and refer their friends to us. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I've had some health issues in the past and the docs that I would take multiple business cards from were the ones who treated me the best. What's the difference between them and us? Those docs didn't need to give me the "white glove" treatment, they did it because that's the way they choose to practice. They'd be doing just fine even if they treated me like a head of cattle. My point is, optometrists, successful ones anyway, can't get by with neutral treatment of patients. They need to be "magnetic" in order to attract patients to themselves and away from the other 400K ODs within a 5 mile radius. My sample neurologist gets all the "magnetism" he needs from the services he provides. So, there you have it, that's why I mentioned the neurologist.
 
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Perhaps I'm swayed in my opinion because the absolute most successful ODs, the guys grossing 4-5 times the average, kiss their patients' asses. More accurately, they make their patients believe they're kissing their ass, without actually doing so. When I talk about kissing a patients ass, I'm not talking about falling all over yourself, I'm talking about treating them well above and beyond the "usual." For example, at one very large OD office I worked in, one OD (the owner), a team of 5-7 refracting techs (who treat each patient like their own mother or father), and I saw anywhere from 50 to 80 patients per day, 5 days per week. He also kept the doors open on Saturday and Sunday, although he wasn't there. He charges what some would call ridiculous amounts of money for services and only spends 4-5 min with each patient. People pay it, and they do so happily. Why? He’s got a long-standing patient base and he holds on to them by rolling out the red carpet; coffee and a wide assortment of cookies/pastries are laid out in the waiting room, neatly organized 4x per hour by a staff member. We’re not talking about Folgers here, it’s the gourmet crap, at least that’s what it looks like. Cookies? No Oreos or Chips Ahoy, just gourmet stuff all set out in little paper dishes. Expensive? Probably not, but it sure looks like it, so do the giant flat screens in every room. There are up-to-date magazines on every topic imaginable, even one on RC planes. If that’s not ass kissing, I don’t know what is. He’s the one laughing all the way to the bank, though. The guy rakes in more money than most ODs would ever dream of. He’s probably the sole reason that hundreds of optometrists from his area decided to go to optometry school, only to find out later that they have no way to reproduce a practice that's over 60 years old.

Why did I mention the neurologist? Because he’s the complete antithesis of the OD that might be next door to him. He has no pressing forces encouraging him to go above and beyond for his patients. He doesn't have to. If he does, good for him, but he doesn't need to in order to survive. As optometrists, we do not have that luxury. We have to make our patients feel like they're the only thing we have going that day if we want them to return to us next year (if we’re lucky) and refer their friends to us. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I've had some health issues in the past and the docs that I would take multiple business cards from were the ones who treated me the best. What's the difference between them and us? Those docs didn't need to give me the "white glove" treatment, they did it because that's the way they choose to practice. They’d be doing just fine even if they treated me like a head of cattle. My point is, optometrists, successful ones anyway, can't get by with neutral treatment of patients. They need to be "magnetic" in order to attract patients to themselves and away from the other 400K ODs within a 5 mile radius. My sample neurologist gets all the "magnetism" he needs from the services he provides. So, there you have it, that’s why I mentioned the neurologist.


From my own experiences, a lot of what Jason K writes rings true, at least from what I have observed. Many of the successful OD practices in my area do similar things to 'roll out the red carpet' for their patients. Conversely, aside from a few cosmetic surgery and concierge medicine practices, almost no MD offices cater to their patients in that way. Maybe part of this is due to the retail aspect of optometry, which is virtually non-existent in medicine. But I think the larger reason is as Jason K explained above. Demand of patients vs. supply of providers. Most MDs are booked out weeks in advance, so they feel there is no need to bring out the 'bells & whistles' when patients are going to come see them regardless. The same isn't true for every optometry practice I've been to. You are virtually guaranteed to be seen if you don't have an appointment.
 
First, I'll deny the notion there's a "right" answer to this question, and thus shall dismiss KHE's labeling JAZZEYE's reply as incorrect. Second, I believe an optometrist is in the business in which she or he chooses to be. For many, that likely will be mostly that of selling refractions and eyeglasses; for some, it might be of providing follow-up medical eye-care; for others, maybe of conducting research, or of teaching.

I've not yet been inclinded to read the original poster's extremely lengthy reply to his own question (I might later be, but haven't been yet) — I was turned off enough by his easy dismissal of everyone else's opinion regarding an open-ended question as simply being "wrong" — but the above is my answer.
 
Ok....so let me preface this by saying that this applies to those of you in practice outside of places like the VA hospital or HMOs or academia. If your job is dependent on actually seeing patients, this applies to you. Of course, as always....IM(nsv)HO


Everyone who said that they are in the "eye business" or the "eye health business" or the "primary eye care business" or the "health care business" the "helping people see better business"...you're all wrong.

Let me tell a story...it's a long one but please bear with me.

A few years back I went to Vision Expo in Las Vegas. I stayed at the Wynn Hotel which is a big fancy place on the strip. I loooove to eat and being a big fat guy, the Wynn hotel was a perfect match for me because there are so many tasty things to eat there!

So I'm having dinner one night by myself in this restaurant and before dessert, the waiter brings over a little plate that had about 5 or 6 little chocolate treats on it. A few of them had nuts sticking out of them and I don't really like nuts with my chocolate so I tried one that looked just like a solid chocolate ball. It was filled with marzipan. Marzipan is probably one of my most favorite things in the world! And when you combine it with chocolate....perfect. So I ate that one and to my delight, the other "solid" chocolate ball also had marzipan in it.

When the waiter came back he noticed that I only ate the two marzipan balls and commented I must have really liked them. I told him I didn't really like nuts with my chocloate but that I loved marzipan. He laughed and went off to get the peach melba I had ordered for dessert. When he came back with the peach melba, he brought two more marzipan balls. And we both laughed again.

Ok so that happens. Now....fast forward a year and I check back into the hotel for Vision Expo again. I get up to my room and sitting on the bed is a little box with a little ribbon on it and a little note.

Of course, I assumed it was some silly little thing but the note was a hand written letter from the manager of the restaurant saying that they knew how much I liked their marzipan balls and to please enjoy some on them and how they hoped I could join them for dinner sometime during my stay. I opened up the little box and inside were eight little marzipan balls.

Of course I went back for dinner.

But wait....there's more......

After vision expo I had two free days in the hotel and I went on an incredibly hot run at the craps table and won $5000. I am NEVER that lucky in a casino. I once won $3500 playing poker against some drunken frat boys but usually when I gamble I win a couple hundred or lose a couple hundred and that's that. But here, I caught a hot pair of dice and combined with a couple of very lucky hands of Let It Ride, I had $5000 in my pocket.

In the hotel, next to the casino there was a Cartier store. I wandered in. Now, I had NO BUSINESS being in Cartier. I had no money. I had just bought my practice a couple of years prior and I was still paying it off. We had a mortgage. I had two small kids at home. I should NOT have been there.

But my wife and I were coming up on ten years of marriage and when we got engaged, I was a 4th year student with no money to my name so the only engagement ring I could afford was whatever I could charge in my American Express card from Zales at a shopping mall in Woodbridge, New Jersey. I thought that maybe she deserved a nicer ring.

So I’m browsing around in this Cartier store and the saleswoman comes over we start talking. I tell her my story and she nods sympathetically and says “let me show you a few things.” So we go over to a counter and she pulls out about 4 or 5 rings. All very beautiful.

The cheapest one was $10,000. I said that there was no way I could do that because it would be a divorce ring. No trial separation. No marriage counseling. D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Again, the saleswoman laughed understandingly and suggested perhaps a watch. They had very beautiful watches ranging from about $2000 to sky’s the limit. I told her my wife probably would not wear a watch that fancy.

So she pulled out a few different necklaces. And I ended up spending $2000 on a small, simple Cartier necklace with a teeny tiny diamond chip in it. It was very beautiful but it wasn’t over the top. I knew my wife would wear it out and not only would it look nice, I wouldn’t have to worry about her getting mugged.

So the woman proceeds to wrap it up in a pretty little box with a pretty little ribbon and then proceeds to pull out a stick of sealing wax and a lighter and seals the box shut with SEALING WAX. I mean, WTF is that? What was this….the year 1635? When was the last time someone used sealing wax on anything?

So I get home and give the gift to my wife. Of course she loved it.

But wait….there’s more…..

Two weeks later, there’s a call on my cell phone from a number I don’t recognize. I pick it up and it’s the saleswoman from Cartier!

“Did she like it?”

“Oh yes….thank you so much. She loved it a lot.”

“Oh that’s great. I’m so happy to hear that. Please come in again the next time you’re in town.”

“Oh yes. I will!”

So I hang up and in my head I’m thinking “come in again? Are you kidding me? I had no business being in there in the first place. I ain’t going back! “ LMAO.

Fast forward another year and again, I’m back in the hotel for vision expo and another hand written note on my pillow FROM HER welcoming me back and inviting me to come say “hello.”

Now again….I had NO BUSINESS going there. I had NO MONEY. I was NOT going to buy something. Yet I WANTED to go in there and say hello. I felt like an ******* for even thinking about NOT going in to say hello.

So I did. And she greeted me by name. Asked how my wife was? Did she come with me this time? No? Oh that’s too bad. And she asked if I wanted to look at anything and I, slightly embarrassed, declined and told her perhaps sometime I would bring her in when she could accompany me and we could do something about that ring.

The saleswoman, without blinking an eye and with the smile on her face never wavering said that she would like that very much and that she hoped to see me again soon.

So I walked out with a shiny happy feeling in my stomach having not bought anything.

BUT I ALSO LEFT WITH THE FEELING THAT I NEVER WANT TO BUY ANY PIECE OF JEWELRY EVER AGAIN FROM ANY PLACE OTHER THAN THAT CARTIER STORE AND NOT JUST THAT CARTIER STORE BUT FROM THAT WOMAN!!!

And why? All she did was put some sealing wax on a box with a pretty red ribbon and left a little hand written note in my room. Big deal, right? Yes. BIG DEAL.

And THAT my friends in the business you are in. You are in the “shiny happy feeling in the stomach business!”

Think about it! I probably bought the CHEAPEST THING IN THERE. And that woman treated me like I was buying a $4 million dollar diamond studded tiara. I was the Cartier equivalent of a vision plan patient! I bought the cheapest thing. But she didn’t care. Or at least, she sure didn’t show it and she rolled out the red carpet for me and my silly little necklace. And come hell or high water, I don’t want to shop anywhere else and I feel like a jerk for even THINKING of shopping for jewelry anywhere else!!



There’s another thread on here that talks about cell phones and how annoying patients can be. One poster, who’s had all kinds of bad experiences with Walmart talked about having patients sign forms and posting signs on the wall saying NO CELL PHONE USE.

Well, we’ve taken a bit of a different approach. Cell phones, annoying as they can be are a fact of life. We’ve added a cell phone charging station in the waiting room which always gets a positive reaction and which is used daily by probably 50% of our patients.

And you know what? It hasn’t had a negative increase in cell phone usage in the exam rooms at all. It’s still less than 1 in 100 patients.

People complain all the time about small children in the exam room and how annoying they are. Doctors lament the “ignorant parents” who let their children “run wild” in the doctors office. Other optometric forums are loaded with stories of doctors sternly information patients to “curb their children” or asking patients to come back when they have a babysitter.

Well, instead of just having a few old, germ infested issues of “Highlights” in the corner of the waiting room, we’ve converted one of our unused exam rooms to a kids “play room” and one of our technicians is a licensed babysitter. I’m not sure what “licensed” means in this case. She just had a bunch of certificates from a bunch of courses she had taken. So she volunteers to watch kids in the play room while mom and/or dad get their exams and pick out their glasses. No charge.

If you’re a busy, working parent who’s probably already scheduled time off from work or rearranged a schedule to come in for an exam, which office do you want to go to? The one with the kids play room staffed by a free licensed babysitter, or the one with the doctor who asks you to reschedule some other time?

Which practice is more likely to give you the shiny happy felling in your stomach?

Some people may bristle at that notion. That’s CRAP! We’re DOCTORS DAMNIT! Patients should be grateful that they can avail themselves of my Acuvue fitting and blepharitis management skills. Patients should RESPECT MY AUTHORITAY! (Cartman voice.)

Get over it. Remember what business you’re in.

Wow: I can't believe I couldn't help myself from coming back to read what's turned out to be this insipidly windy way of presenting the pseudo-profound suggestion, "Optometrists are in the business of 'people.'" Every business is in the business of people. Maybe some O.D.s ought to take a few minutes away from the salt mine to work on humility and succinctness.
 
Wow: I can't believe I couldn't help myself from coming back to read what's turned out to be this insipidly windy way of presenting the pseudo-profound suggestion, "Optometrists are in the business of 'people.'" Every business is in the business of people. Maybe some O.D.s ought to take a few minutes away from the salt mine to work on humility and succinctness.

The point I think he's making was summed up nicely in the post above yours. ODs, more so than your MD counterparts, need to have an eye towards customer service.

As a family doctor, I'll never want for patients. I could be distant and aloof and still have patients... one of the busiest FPs in town is exactly like that in fact. The 3 new OD offices in my practice town of 35,000 in the last year with no offices closing can't make the same claim. They'll have to do something to stand out - whether that's low prices, Saturday hours, snacks, or whatever else you can think of if they want to stay busy and thus profitible.
 
Wow: I can't believe I couldn't help myself from coming back to read what's turned out to be this insipidly windy way of presenting the pseudo-profound suggestion, "Optometrists are in the business of 'people.'" Every business is in the business of people. Maybe some O.D.s ought to take a few minutes away from the salt mine to work on humility and succinctness.

If all you got out of that "insipidly windy" posting was that optometrists are in the "people" business then you totally missed the point.
 
I think there can be several definitions of a profession. The intangibles mentioned by KHE are (IMO) things that can make a practice more successful and more capable of surviving ups and downs in the economy. There are some ODs that think that the solution to being successful is to limit competition and force patients to come to them whether they have good people skills or not. They would prefer not to have to “lower” themselves to speaking to their patients on the same level. They want to treat their patients like cattle who are there only to help facilitate their income and who should be grateful to them for their help. When a dip in the economy comes they reap what they sow and end up spending an inordinate amount of time on the internet whining about how their profession is dead or dying because they're not making money as easy as before.

I personally think that if you want to go into a private practice for something like optometry, it would require more than just technical aptitude to be consistently successful even through tougher times. If you want to have a crappy attitude and feel entitled to making money by just throwing your hat into the ring, then (more often than not) you’ll probably get exactly what you deserve and nothing more.
 
There are some ODs that think that the solution to being successful is to limit competition and force patients to come to them whether they have good people skills or not. They would prefer not to have to "lower" themselves to speaking to their patients on the same level. They want to treat their patients like cattle who are there only to help facilitate their income and who should be grateful to them for their help. When a dip in the economy comes they reap what they sow and end up spending an inordinate amount of time on the internet whining about how their profession is dead or dying because they're not making money as easy as before.

Since your unsupported comments are clearly directed at me, at least in part, would you care to explain exactly where you got the idea that I would like to "treat patients like cattle?" I, in fact, stated the complete opposite. You must have gotten that wordage from my previous post, which was used to promote the opposite of your claim. So, where did you get that idea and how can you justify such a statement? Where have you seen any ODs who would choose to move their patients through like farm animals? Please come up with something here:

1) Where did you come up with the idea that I promote treating patients like "cattle?"
2) Where did you come up with the idea that I "don't want to lower myself" to talking to patients on the same level?

Oh, and let's not take the easy road out and claim your comments weren't directed at me, I think that would be a rather transparent response.😀
 
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I personally think that if you want to go into a private practice for something like optometry, it would require more than just technical aptitude to be consistently successful even through tougher times. If you want to have a crappy attitude and feel entitled to making money by just throwing your hat into the ring, then (more often than not) you’ll probably get exactly what you deserve and nothing more.

I'm curious, are you a practicing OD?
 
KHE, nice post! Had i seen this earlier, though you probably would have said my answer would be incorrect, you might have also said I am kind of on the right track (for some reason, the minute i read this title/first post, i thought about your Ritz Carlton and Motel 6 analogy).

Anyway, in regards to your post, are you saying that this is the "business" for those strictly in private practice? If not, how does one who works for an OMD, VA/Hospital, Part of a Group, or in commercial do something similar? Is it even possible? I can understand how being charismatic and calling the patients to make sure how everything goes etc... can apply, but not things like (for example) snacks, foot massages, charging docks etc... Also any other OD's feel free to answer.

I only ask this because it is not obvious to me if it applies to all modes of practice, I can only see this being applied mainly in a private practice setting
 
KHE, nice post! Had i seen this earlier, though you probably would have said my answer would be incorrect, you might have also said I am kind of on the right track (for some reason, the minute i read this title/first post, i thought about your Ritz Carlton and Motel 6 analogy).

Anyway, in regards to your post, are you saying that this is the "business" for those strictly in private practice? If not, how does one who works for an OMD, VA/Hospital, Part of a Group, or in commercial do something similar? Is it even possible? I can understand how being charismatic and calling the patients to make sure how everything goes etc... can apply, but not things like (for example) snacks, foot massages, charging docks etc... Also any other OD's feel free to answer.

I only ask this because it is not obvious to me if it applies to all modes of practice, I can only see this being applied mainly in a private practice setting

My experience-- it only applies to private pratices (the dying mode of optometric practice). If you work at the VA, you don't have to do much of anything. The people there are 'free-riders' who usually have waited for month for their routine exam. They can complain but few will pay out of their pocket to go elsewhere.

Many ophthalmologists offices....and MDs offices for that matter (and I've worked at two) treat their patients like crap and do not suffer from it. They have techs not only doing all the work but even doing all the explanations to patients. Hell internists and family docs around here are even getting away with making their patients file their own insurance. What a treat that would be. Some even 'interview' prospective patients to see if they are worthy of being their patient. Contrast that with ODs putting up 'walk-ins welcome' signs right beside their 'Buy one, get one free' sign. We essentially BEG for patients to come to us because there are so many ODs around.

Ophthalmologists can keep patients waiting for 2 hours. Patients complain, but they continue to go back because.........well, they are MDs. Just the way it is.

So the private practice mode is really the only one you have to go 'above and beyond' because like I said, it is a slowing dying mode of practice probably. We are just trying to hold on to the few pateints that don't yet go to commercial places or ophthalmologists offices or just order everything on-line.
 
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KHE, nice post! Had i seen this earlier, though you probably would have said my answer would be incorrect, you might have also said I am kind of on the right track (for some reason, the minute i read this title/first post, i thought about your Ritz Carlton and Motel 6 analogy).

Anyway, in regards to your post, are you saying that this is the "business" for those strictly in private practice? If not, how does one who works for an OMD, VA/Hospital, Part of a Group, or in commercial do something similar? Is it even possible? I can understand how being charismatic and calling the patients to make sure how everything goes etc... can apply, but not things like (for example) snacks, foot massages, charging docks etc... Also any other OD's feel free to answer.

I only ask this because it is not obvious to me if it applies to all modes of practice, I can only see this being applied mainly in a private practice setting

I think it applies to any mode of practice where your employment is based on seeing a certain number of patients who actually give you money. If you work for a VA, the VA will "stay open" whether you see 10 or 20 patients or even 3 patients a day. And if the patients don't like it, who gives a crap? They ain't paying you.

In ophthalmology, yes....the supply of ophthalmologists is relatively limited in most parts of the country so they can get away with being the "arrogant doctor" a bit more than we can but even, patients will only put up with so much. My practice has lots of patients who've come from one of the local ophthalmology groups becuase they're all basically jerks. If you were an ophthalmology resident, I would tell you to set up in my town. If you're simply "pleasant" you could make a friggin killing here.
 
I'll chime in. I think KHE is making valid points. I'll preface by saying that I'm about 80% medical retina and 20% comprehensive (no comprehensive surgery/procedures, though). I've had patients come for second opinions and stay, patients wanting to stay after I've seen them in cross-cover, new patients referred only by word-of-mouth. Am I just that good? Well, of course. 😀 Seriously, though, what do I do that's so special? Nothing in particular. I talk to my patients. I explain their disease process (or as much as they want to hear). I answer their questions. I involve them in their care, rather than being paternalistic. I try not to overbook my clinic, so I can take time with my patients. I'm cordial. I'm apologetic, if I'm running behind or an error is made. I give patients my cell number, if they are going through a bad disease. None of this is difficult, but it's enough to give the patients that "shiny happy feeling in the stomach." That makes them want to come to you, rather than someone else. I've had numerous patients say that they've never been told what is wrong with them or why they are receiving a certain treatment. Were they really not told? Probably not, but it may have been rushed and via ancillary staff with no opportunity for questions. A little extra time and effort can go a long way.
 
But that 80 year old woman with glaucoma has a choice of about 25 different optometrists and ophthalmolgists to choose from, all of whom are adequate at treating her glaucoma. Which one will she choose?

The whole point of it all is so that the "jackass" who wants his seg heights measured to buy online WON'T EVEN THINK TO DO SO and will in fact feel like an IDIOT for even THINKING about going ANYWHERE other than to you. Just as I felt like an idiot for even thinking about going anyplace other than that one particular store.

Does it work 100% of the time on 100% of the people? Absolutely not. Nothing will.

Again....it's about creating an environment such that people want to give you money and don't even think to give their money to anyone else BUT YOU.

Tippytoe tells us of the Lexus mechanic that doesn't go to. Perfect example of how it doesn't work on everyone. But I can say with certainty that that Lexus dealership makes a lot of money on repairs because people (probably mostly women) want to get their repairs done THERE with the "cookies" and the "personal mechanic" instead of at the smelly gas station garage down the street with the busted toilet and the scary looking mechanic just coming down off of his meth high.

Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit. Obviously not every mechanic not associated with a dealership is coming down off of a meth high.

Interesting that we're talking Lexus. My partner drives one. He won't go anywhere else BUT the dealer. Why? Because when he needs service, they come to the office and pick his car up and leave him a loaner Lexus at no additional charge. They take his car away, do the service and then bring it back and pick up the loaner. He doesn't even have to GO to the dealer. And it's all free of charge.

Of course it's NOT free of charge. It's built into the price of the service. They ain't losing money on that. But it makes his life EASIER and more convenient and just more "nice."

If you can create that environment in your practice, you're got it made.

this guy is a smart salesmen here people. i would listen to him
 
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