What counts as a publication?

[SouthParkStudio]

I am really confused as to what is considered a publication when it comes time to applying for residency (i.e. how the nrmp tracks the average number of pubs that each applicant has).

1. Do videos submitted and accepted to a national conference and ultimately published on a medical society’s website count as a publication?
2. Does a presentation at a national conference count as a “pub”?
3. If I am second author on the paper/project, but am first author on the abstract, does the abstract count as a pub as well as the paper (meaning 2 pubs or just 1)?
4. Do PD’s even care about papers accepted and published in my school journal?

Thanks.

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[seminoma]

OP I've been told that presentations count as presentations, and publications count as publications. So if you publish something and also present it at a conference, you list it as a publication and also list that you presented it. If you simply present something that doesn't also get published, then you list it as a presentation.

I'm first on an abstract and third on the paper. The resident I worked with told me to list it on my CV with the main heading as "Author: Title_of_paper" and then in the description or subheading "first author title_of_paper abstract, third author title_of_paper". I think that's a good way of putting it because it doesn't look like you're trying to list out as many things as possible or take credit for first author on the whole thing. As far as the NRMP goes, I don't know how they count "publications" on charting outcomes.

What about medical education projects that are "published" internally (password protected website for students)?

 

[referee3]

It has to be published in a peer-reviewed journal to count as a pub. Everything else is just fluff.

 

[JJMrK]

What about medical education projects that are "published" internally (password protected website for students)?

This would not qualify as a publication either in general or in ERAS terms.

It has to be published in a peer-reviewed journal to count as a pub. Everything else is just fluff.

True in general conversation or when discussing a CV. However, ERAS counts abstracts and presentations in the "publications" section. This is one reason why the data presented in charting outcomes seems overinflated.

 

[referee3]

This would not qualify as a publication either in general or in ERAS terms.


True in general conversation or when discussing a CV. However, ERAS counts abstracts and presentations in the "publications" section. This is one reason why the data presented in charting outcomes seems overinflated.

Thanks. Did not know this. It seems silly though. I think it would be more effective is there was a separate section for abstracts and presentations.

 

[seminoma]

It has to be published in a peer-reviewed journal to count as a pub. Everything else is just fluff.

What about co-authorship of a textbook chapter?

 

[referee3]

What about co-authorship of a textbook chapter?

I would say yes if it is a scientific/medical textbook. These are reviewed by editors and are generally trusted for the accuracy of their contents.

 

[JJMrK]

What about co-authorship of a textbook chapter?

Again, would count in ERAS, but in general referred to as a "book chapter," not a "publication."

 

[Jabbed]

True in general conversation or when discussing a CV. However, ERAS counts abstracts and presentations in the "publications" section. This is one reason why the data presented in charting outcomes seems overinflated.

This alleviated a lot of the anxiety that I felt when I looking at Charting Outcomes.

 

[JJMrK]

This alleviated a lot of the anxiety that I felt when I looking at Charting Outcomes.

Yes. The actual publication rate is likely much, much lower than you'd think based on that document, even for the most competitive specialties.

I'm just hazarding a guess, but I think it's probably significantly lower than 1 real publication per applicant across all specialties. Probably a touch higher than 1/applicant for the most competitive fields.

 

[Amba]

I thought the charting the outcomes data seemed absurd. Do they also allow people to list publications from undergrad/gap years? I feel like that would help explain the really high numbers as well.

Of course. Publications stay with you throughout your career.

 

[Amba]

Im sure those matter very little for competitive specialties who are looking for more focused research relevant to the field, but that is good to know that they can be put on ERAS. Charting the outcomes just had me wondering how, for example, the average anesthesiology person who matched had like 3.3 "pubs". That seemed like a lot.

Disclaimer: I'm only a first year. But I would probably disagree with the bolded statement, at least from my experiences. I came into med school with extremely heavy research in one particular field (think >25 ERAS "pubs"), and I have talked to PDs in other departments, and I've been told that my research before med school will help me substantially, regardless of what field I choose. Granted, I probably came in with more research than most, but I would think that it still applies to those with less.

Also, 3.3 is not a lot at all. That's literally (1) presentation of a project at a conference, (2) manuscript of same project, and (3) contributing authorship on another manuscript/abstract.

 

[ChEMD]

Also, 3.3 is not a lot at all. That's literally (1) presentation of a project at a conference, (2) manuscript of same project, and (3) contributing authorship on another manuscript/abstract.

For people who want to do well in their courses/on board exams and maintain something that resembles a life outside of school, it can be difficult to find time to do even that much.

 

[Amba]

For people who want to do well in their courses/on board exams and maintain something that resembles a life outside of school, it can be difficult to find time to do even that much.

I don't necessarily agree, especially given the fact that everyone has 3+ years to accomplish that.

 

[ChEMD]

I don't necessarily agree, especially given the fact that everyone has 3+ years to accomplish that.

It's fine that you don't agree, obviously your priorities are geared towards research, which is great. But other people might have different priorities and prefer to spend the free time they get doing other things besides working.

 

[Amba]

It's fine that you don't agree, obviously your priorities are geared towards research, which is great. But other people might have different priorities and prefer to spend the free time they get doing other things besides working.

Implicit in both your posts is that productive research and a social life are mutually exclusive (which, of course, comes off a slight towards me). I know plenty of people that do well in classes AND are productive in terms of publishing AND have a normal social life. You don't have to believe me, but that is your prerogative.

 

[ChEMD]

Implicit in both your posts is that productive research and a social life are mutually exclusive (which, of course, comes off a slight towards me). I know plenty of people that do well in classes AND are productive in terms of publishing AND have a normal social life. You don't have to believe me, but that is your prerogative.

Haha there's no need to argue here, and it's not that I don't believe you, nor was I trying to take a shot at your personal life. I was just saying that people have different priorities, so while for some 3 publications is not a lot, for others it seems like a pretty high number. We also probably just differ in some aspect of our definition of 'well in classes' or 'normal social life'.

 

[seminoma]

I don't necessarily agree, especially given the fact that everyone has 3+ years to accomplish that.

Says the MS1...

It's great that you have so many pubs and awesome grades and are a social butterfly. Unfortunately the amount of time you'll have for extracurriculars plummets once MS2 picks up and step 1 looms near.

 

[Amba]

Says the MS1...

See disclaimer in first post.

[my sentiment remains, but it's clear since I'm just an MS1 I'm clueless about research... 🙄]

 

[Amba]

Says the MS1...

It's great that you have so many pubs and awesome grades and are a social butterfly. Unfortunately the amount of time you'll have for extracurriculars plummets once MS2 picks up and step 1 looms near.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that three CV items, over three years, in an environment where everyone WANTS you to succeed, it not this huge insurmountable task.

 

[Lysinee]

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that three CV items, over three years, in an environment where everyone WANTS you to succeed, it not this huge insurmountable task.

Less than 1/4 of the class has a pub by the time they submit their ERAS applications. I am referring to projects that were started during med school.

Also, it's not about faculty members WANTING students to succeed. It's more about finding a good mentor who has a track record of working with students and someone who gives you a role that has a contribution on the project.

 

[Amba]

Also, it's not about faculty members WANTING students to succeed. It's more about finding a good mentor who has a track record of working with students and someone who gives you a role that has a contribution on the project.

I will give you that.