What determines the variation in residency salaries? Is there a good resource?

[theWUbear]

There seems to be a small amount of variation in salary in each PG Year between different residency programs (say, Yale vs your local community teaching hospital), as well as variation in salary between different specialties (say, Internal med vs ob gyn).

Are there any rules of thumb regarding these differences in salary (and benefits)? Would one be correct in assuming that more prestigious programs and specialties pay more for residency? Does it vary more with cost of living of the location of the program?

Are there any central resources for learning more about residents' salaries? Perhaps a table with averages, or a master list by AGCME or another group that has all salaries?

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[Law2Doc]

There seems to be a small amount of variation in salary in each PG Year between different residency programs (say, Yale vs your local community teaching hospital), as well as variation in salary between different specialties (say, Internal med vs ob gyn).

Are there any rules of thumb regarding these differences in salary (and benefits)? Would one be correct in assuming that more prestigious programs and specialties pay more for residency? Does it vary more with cost of living of the location of the program?

Are there any central resources for learning more about residents' salaries? Perhaps a table with averages, or a master list by AGCME or another group that has all salaries?

It usually has nothing to do with prestige or specialty. The more prestigious places and fields are more of a sellers market and so they get away with paying whatever is the local going rate. In fact one of the most prestigious places nationally recently had to adjust their salaries up because they developed a bad reputation for being cheapskates within the region. And it's extremely rare for residents in different departments within the same hospital to earn different rates -- that would create quite an uproar and backlash that no administrators want to deal with. So they create rates for PGY years, and all the departments have to pay those. And somehow all the neighboring hospitals come up with numbers in the same ballpark (although there's no antitrust violations going on 😉).Most of the time the variation is based on cost of living -- eg programs in Manhattan are going to pay slightly better than programs in the stix. Even then the variation is quite small. Not enough to influence your career decision. Most places today are starting at low 40s to high 50s, with pretty negligible range within each geographic area. Best to look at it more as a stipend than a bargained for salary, because in the greater scheme it's barely relevant.

It doesn't really matter if you earn 45k or 50k, it still probably translates to $2/hour over the course of the year.

 

[TexasPhysician]

All specialties earn the same amount. Psychiatrists earn the same salary as plastic surgeons for working fewer hours. 🙂 Pay increases each PGY year.

More prestigious hospitals are more likely to pay LESS because they can. California and NE programs pay less as well because they can.

To earn the best relative income, choose a lifestyle specialty (fewer hours = higher hourly breakdown of your salary) and go to a program in the Midwest or South.

 

[thesauce]

Also, the benefits vary widely and are arguably even more important. Some provide free health insurance. Some provide a free healthclub membership or free food. You tend to see this more with the community hospital programs.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

To earn the best relative income, choose a lifestyle specialty (fewer hours = higher hourly breakdown of your salary) and go to a program in the Midwest or South.

This is an accurate statement. However I still suggest you don't miss the forest for the trees. Residency salary should have minimal to no impact on your decision. Look at it as just a bit of cost of living help, a stipend of sorts, not enough to change your career path. Focusing on resident salary is like going on vacation to Wildwood, NJ instead of Bermuda because the flights are cheaper.

 

[CodeBlu]

This is an accurate statement. However I still suggest you don't miss the forest for the trees. Residency salary should have minimal to no impact on your decision. Look at it as just a bit of cost of living help, a stipend of sorts, not enough to change your career path. Focusing on resident salary is like going on vacation to Wildwood, NJ instead of Bermuda because the flights are cheaper.

But they look so happy....?

 

[loljkttyl]

It varies a lot based on cost of living. If cost of living is higher, the salary will often be higher.

 

[Catalystik]

Are there any central resources for learning more about residents' salaries? Perhaps a table with averages, or a master list by AGCME or another group that has all salaries?

You can look up the salary at each individual program on the AMA's FREIDA database: https://freida.ama-assn.org/Freida/u...ogramSearch.do

 

[45408]

Are there any rules of thumb regarding these differences in salary (and benefits)? Would one be correct in assuming that more prestigious programs and specialties pay more for residency? Does it vary more with cost of living of the location of the program?

Are there any central resources for learning more about residents' salaries? Perhaps a table with averages, or a master list by AGCME or another group that has all salaries?

No, prestigious programs are probably more likely to pay you less. The lowest salary I saw on my residency interviews was in the most expensive place too.

It doesn't really matter if you earn 45k or 50k, it still probably translates to $2/hour over the course of the year.

Nah, the lowest I went was about $7-8/hr in a 99 hour week.

 

[45408]

Also, the benefits vary widely and are arguably even more important. Some provide free health insurance. Some provide a free healthclub membership or free food. You tend to see this more with the community hospital programs.

This is huge. My program pays $17,000 a year for my health insurance (and it's not coming out of my salary). If you've got a family like me, then keep your eyes wide open.

It varies a lot based on cost of living. If cost of living is higher, the salary will often be higher.

My experience was literally the complete opposite.

 

[theWUbear]

This thread is proof that posting in pre-allo (as opposed to polluting other forums) works. Thanks a lot to all the residents that responded.

As a followup question:

If salary doesn't vary much, if you are an excellent candidate for residency (AOA, great STEP scores, top percentile of your class), what is it you look for in a residency program that sets apart your top choices from others? Is there just plain better training/research opportunities at places like MGH, UCSF, etc.? Do benefits play into it? ...Prestige? Clearly location plays a big part in an individual's choice, but for argument sake let's say this hypothetical person is a top student who's comfortable moving around and looking for the best fit for him nationally

 

[TexasPhysician]

1. Location
2. Location
3. Location
4. Resident happiness
5. Benefits
6. Prestige if an academic career is the goal

 

[BigRedBeta]

This thread is proof that posting in pre-allo (as opposed to polluting other forums) works. Thanks a lot to all the residents that responded.

As a followup question:

If salary doesn't vary much, if you are an excellent candidate for residency (AOA, great STEP scores, top percentile of your class), what is it you look for in a residency program that sets apart your top choices from others? Is there just plain better training/research opportunities at places like MGH, UCSF, etc.? Do benefits play into it? ...Prestige? Clearly location plays a big part in an individual's choice, but for argument sake let's say this hypothetical person is a top student who's comfortable moving around and looking for the best fit for him nationally

It's rare for it to be any one particular aspect. A lot of it is just feel - where did you make a good connection, where can you see yourself fitting in for the next 3-7 years, how you feel like you fit in with the residents (you're going to be spending a lot of time with these people). Certainly objective data plays a role too - how many electives you get, the structure of conferences, board pass rates, benefits such as health insurance or monthly meal money, or the opportunity to moonlight. Knowing your future career goals can be important too (if most residents go on to academic clinician scientist roles after finishing and you want to do mission work in 3rd world countries, might not be the best fit). Likewise, particularly in fields like peds or IM, if you're certain you want to go into a particular fellowship, going to a place the produces nothing but generalists is probably not a good choice. But it's definitely a combination of things.

...And sometimes, it comes down to the fact that someone looks at you funny or that the meal they provided to you wasn't up to your expectations. I think there was thread a while back where people posted their most ridiculous reasons for leaving programs off their rank order list.

 

[Law2Doc]

1. Location
2. Location
3. Location
4. Resident happiness
5. Benefits
6. Prestige if an academic career is the goal

Basically agree, but if you can get a good read on whether residents or happy or miserable (you often won't be able to tell) that probably should supersede some of the other aspects. You spend an inordinate amount of your life in the hospital during residency, so your happiness in that setting kind of trumps you life outside of the hospital to some degree (unless you are choosing location for family reasons). There are some very benign and some awfully malignant places out there in nearly every specialty. Prestige per se isn't so important, but a good track record of getting fellowships/jobs/passing boards is generally important to see.