What difference does the tier of the med-school you attend make?

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UnicornDemon

UnicornDemon

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I don't have a very strong resume right now and I'm cramming a bit to get pre-reqs, clinical experience, extra-curriculars, etc. so I'll probably be lucky if I get into any med-school. That said the only two competitive specialties I'm interested in are Anesthesiology or Radiology. How disadvantaged would I be if I attended Florida State University College of Medicine, where the average MCAT is a 28? What advantages would an IVY league med-school grad have over me?

It seems that a lot of people on these forums are focused on getting into top-tier schools, so I'm assuming there's some benefit to attending these schools. I guess it helps to match into specialties such as Plastics or Derm?
 
One of the reasons I am interested in the Top 20 schools is that these schools have a lot of money for research and so funded research becomes more feasible for medical students (who don't necessarily want to spend time on an MD/PhD). At schools where there isn't as much research funding, the best positions would go to the graduate students.

Another advantage (I hope) is the network of connections you start to build that will be helpful later on.
 
UnicornDemon said:
I don't have a very strong resume right now and I'm cramming a bit to get pre-reqs, clinical experience, extra-curriculars, etc. so I'll probably be lucky if I get into any med-school. That said the only two competitive specialties I'm interested in are Anesthesiology or Radiology. How disadvantaged would I be if I attended Florida State University College of Medicine, where the average MCAT is a 28? What advantages would an IVY league med-school grad have over me?

It seems that a lot of people on these forums are focused on getting into top-tier schools, so I'm assuming there's some benefit to attending these schools. I guess it helps to match into specialties such as Plastics or Derm?
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You basically said it yourself. Plastics, derm, rad onc, neurosurgery, ortho...yea you will definitely have an easier time with top tier. Same goes for academia and working in an academic setting. For the specialities you mentioned, perform very well at any school and you'll probably match. It may not be your first choice but you will pull it off.
 
In of itself I doubt that tier will have a large influence (though probably some). However, it may come into play in terms of opportunity and preparation. Both the specialties you mentioned are fairly competitive so you will need high Step 1 scores, and probably research experience. If your school has a poor curriculum or lacks research opportunities it means that you will have to make an extra effort to make up for it. That being said, if you have a 240 w/ a couple of good publications and a letters of rec it is unlikely that the name of your school will matter much.
 
Here is this year's match list for FSU: http://med.fsu.edu/userFiles/file/Class of 2013 Residency Match Results(3).pdf

Anesthesiology and Radiology are both represented multiple times.

Also, keep in mind that FSU and schools with similar mission statements aim to produce a large number of primary care doctors. Because of this, the fact that FSU's grads tend to go into primary care does not necessarily mean that they couldn't go into other fields because they weren't competitive enough. More likely, it means that they were interested in primary care from the start.

Reasons people want to go to big name schools: prestige and name recognition, research opportunities, (in some cases) location, advantage for a few top residencies

Aim for a top tier if you value those things, but if you end up at FSU or another unranked/low-ranked school, you'll still be able to do whatever you want to do.
 
connections for letters of recommendation (important). assumption that you're smart (not as important because there's step 1). tend to be p/f grading so that you aren't as stressed and can focus on outside interests (nice to have). if you're at johns hopkins and you barely pass step 1, most programs probably won't even look at you
 
freakingoutabit said:
Here is this year's match list for FSU: http://med.fsu.edu/userFiles/file/Class of 2013 Residency Match Results(3).pdf

Anesthesiology and Radiology are both represented multiple times.

Also, keep in mind that FSU and schools with similar mission statements aim to produce a large number of primary care doctors. Because of this, the fact that FSU's grads tend to go into primary care does not necessarily mean that they couldn't go into other fields because they weren't competitive enough. More likely, it means that they were interested in primary care from the start.

Reasons people want to go to big name schools: prestige and name recognition, research opportunities, (in some cases) location, advantage for a few top residencies

Aim for a top tier if you value those things, but if you end up at FSU or another unranked/low-ranked school, you'll still be able to do whatever you want to do.
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It's comforting to see a dermatologist and ortho/neuro surgeons on that list. Not that I'd ever want to do those, but I know they're more competitive than anesthesiology.

Thank for the info! 🙂
 
kyamh said:
One of the reasons I am interested in the Top 20 schools is that these schools have a lot of money for research and so funded research becomes more feasible for medical students (who don't necessarily want to spend time on an MD/PhD). At schools where there isn't as much research funding, the best positions would go to the graduate students.

Another advantage (I hope) is the network of connections you start to build that will be helpful later on.
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With all that free time you'll have for an independent project, of course.

...MD phD's are in longer programs with gap YEARS to pursue these things.


OP. Want to do derm? Kill step 1, get good LOR's and probably some research as an assistant in a related field (only the most competitive fields care, and to varying degrees) the rest is history. All US MD schools have "connections" to good programs, even if regionally. Top tiers really only make an inkling of difference if you're interested in academic medicine.

edit: Why top tier? Pre-med SDN epeen, mostly. Ask your attendings if they care where there colleagues went to school. No one cares, not even that--its completely don't give two bits because it's irrelevant. If you end up asking an attending where they went to school they generally reply with where they were trained, then look kinda shocked that you meant medical school. Even the "ivy" guys.
 
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I consider going to a top-tier school like the icing on an already strong residency application. You will never match into a competitive residency without a good Step 1 score and good clinical evaluations. The things that going to top-tier school will help you with include: having access to prominent faculty, having access to a an alumni network (if a program has matched a great student from your school before, they're more likely to want to match you), having a home residency program that you have good shot to match at (some schools do not have residency programs in certain specialties), and exposure to the specialties you're interested in (if a school is heavily primary care-focused, their 3rd and 4th year curricula may not allow you much opportunity to explore subspecialties).
 
kyamh said:
One of the reasons I am interested in the Top 20 schools is that these schools have a lot of money for research and so funded research becomes more feasible for medical students (who don't necessarily want to spend time on an MD/PhD). At schools where there isn't as much research funding, the best positions would go to the graduate students.

Another advantage (I hope) is the network of connections you start to build that will be helpful later on.
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This is pretty much why I chose the top schools on my list
 
Research opportunities, connections, alumni and networking, prestige, and it can give you a bit of an advantage for super-competitive specialties IIRC.

If you are an Indian male, the added prestige may help you secure a more attractive female for a wife through arranged marriage. It won't help Indian females much though.


Not much besides that.
 
askamsky51 said:
With all that free time you'll have for an independent project, of course.

...MD phD's are in longer programs with gap YEARS to pursue these things.
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I would actually love some clarification on this, maybe you can help me out. Most of the programs I want to go to incorporate a research requirement into the curriculum, example being Northwestern. Others also have tuition free 5th years (Yale) for similar pursuits. For these programs, is there a realistic amount of time set aside to allow students to actually pursue an independent project in a meaningful way? Or are the projects very much last on everyone's minds?
 
Womb Raider said:
More girls.
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Exactly. #1 reason.

Arkangeloid said:
Research opportunities, connections, alumni and networking, prestige, and it can give you a bit of an advantage for super-competitive specialties IIRC.

If you are an Indian male, the added prestige may help you secure a more attractive female for a wife through arranged marriage. It won't help Indian females much though.


Not much besides that.
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What about for a white male hoping to get married to an attractive indian female? I figure by getting into top schools, her parents won't mind. :naughty:
 
Agent B said:
What about for a white male hoping to get married to an attractive indian female? I figure by getting into top schools, her parents won't mind. :naughty:
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Prob won't help in terms of arranged marriage (which is really an Indian-Indian thing), but her parents won't mind you dating her if you're a doctor from a top school.
 
Basically nothing, unless you want to remain in the ivory tower for residency/ want to do research. Premeds are notorious for worrying about trivial BS, while ignoring things that matter. Dress code? Mandatory class attendance? Good rotations and some electives M3? Tuition? This is the kind of stuff people should be worrying about, not boards pass rates, school ranking/big names, or early pt exposure.
 
kyamh said:
😕 why should we be worried about this?
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do you honestly want to deal with wearing a shirt and tie every single day all day for m1/m2? Not as big of a deal as mandatory attendance, but still not something I would have wanted to deal with.
 
willen101383 said:
do you honestly want to deal with wearing a shirt and tie every single day all day for m1/m2? Not as big of a deal as mandatory attendance, but still not something I would have wanted to deal with.
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And which schools do this?
 
GoPelicans said:
Vandy, Mayo, CCLCM have dress codes AFAIK
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Dress codes that dictate you must wear professional attire during MS1/MS2 years? i.e., going to class? I find that hard to believe. (Edit: looked it up; it's not true.)

Most med schools require professional attire when doing anything clinical so that you look professional and whatnot. That sounds reasonable. Whether they call this a "dress code" or not doesn't seem to be relevant in picking among schools.
 
willen101383 said:
do you honestly want to deal with wearing a shirt and tie every single day all day for m1/m2? Not as big of a deal as mandatory attendance, but still not something I would have wanted to deal with.
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What if you LIKE dressing up? 😀
 
inycepoo said:
Dress codes that dictate you must wear professional attire during MS1/MS2 years? i.e., going to class? I find that hard to believe. (Edit: looked it up; it's not true.)

Most med schools require professional attire when doing anything clinical so that you look professional and whatnot. That sounds reasonable. Whether they call this a "dress code" or not doesn't seem to be relevant in picking among schools.
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I know LECOM requires dress shirt & tie even in the classroom.
 
kyamh said:
I would actually love some clarification on this, maybe you can help me out. Most of the programs I want to go to incorporate a research requirement into the curriculum, example being Northwestern. Others also have tuition free 5th years (Yale) for similar pursuits. For these programs, is there a realistic amount of time set aside to allow students to actually pursue an independent project in a meaningful way? Or are the projects very much last on everyone's minds?
Click to expand...

Pitt has a longitudinal research requirement called the Scholarly Project. Most students (80%+) do research in the summer between MS1 and MS2, although not everyone's research during that summer ends up contributing to their SP. Many students do research during the year, some take a year-long leave of absence after MS2 or MS3 to do research, most take research months in 3rd and 4th year to make some progress on their projects. There's really no time set aside specifically for research, but there are ways to work it in however you want. If you want to do research in addition to class, you need to have good time management skills.
 
In the past 3 years, FSU has matched anesthesia at:

Wash U, UT-SW x2, Baylor, Maine Medical Center, UF, Jackson Memorial x4, Loyola, Vanderbilt x2, UAB, UT - Knoxville, Emory, Louisville, Loma Linda

and Rads at:

Brown x2, Florida Hospital, UF, UF-Jax, Rush

This has been discussed many times in the past. In some of the ultra-elite specialties, being at a med school that is strong in that specialty (note: not all 'top' med schools are strong in every specialty and some 'mid-tier' med schools are super strong in certain specialties) may help because rec letters, but 90% of your app is up to you. Whether you kill step 1 and step 2, whether you get AOA, whether you publish and present, whether you honor your rotations/externships, whether you can wow people at your interviews - all of that is up to you.

Go where you'll keep your debt burden down unless your are 100% set on something like plastics, derm, radonc, ophtho, nsgy. Even then, you can still probably get there from anywhere if you are smart enough, work hard enough and have a likeable personality.

Good luck.
 
GoPelicans said:
Vandy, Mayo, CCLCM have dress codes AFAIK
Click to expand...
CCLCM requires business casual for preclinical students, not shirt and tie. And that requirement is because students take classes in the hospital, so they are expected to follow the same dress code that all hospital employees follow. I don't think any med school would require students to wear a shirt and tie to class in the year 2013. Even if some school did have that requirement, that has to be the dumbest reason imaginable for not picking a med school. All med schools have dress codes for clinical students. Those of you who were hoping to wear your jammies and fuzzy slippers to work for the rest of your career really picked the wrong profession. :eyebrow:

To answer the OP's question, you should go to the cheapest school you get into. Halfway through your intern year when the student loans start coming due, you'll be really, really unhappy if you fail to follow this advice. You can also match into any specialty you want coming from a state school, as long as you do well in school and on the boards and get good LORs. I don't know that much about FSU, but if they don't have residency programs in the specialties you're interested in, then plan on doing some summer research or some away rotations at other schools that do offer those residencies. That's how you can make contacts and get LORs for residency. Good luck with your apps.
 
there was a point in college when many of the girls would show up to class in pajamas and slippers
now it's all yoga pants, uggs and north face jackets
 
yehhhboiii said:
there was a point in college when many of the girls would show up to class in pajamas and slippers
now it's all yoga pants, uggs and north face jackets
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Pajamas = cute butts = not complaining 😛
 
Doesn't matter. At all imo. Your success will be up to you and you alone. Your own hard work will get you that Step 1 score and the residency of your choice. No one cares where you went to medical school. Go where you'll be happy and at a place you can afford.
 
CCLCMer said:
Way to totally ignore the point of my post. 🙄
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Just the facts, ma'am.

joe+friday.jpg
 
CCLCMer said:
To answer the OP's question, you should go to the cheapest school you get into. Halfway through your intern year when the student loans start coming due, you'll be really, really unhappy if you fail to follow this advice. You can also match into any specialty you want coming from a state school, as long as you do well in school and on the boards and get good LORs. I don't know that much about FSU, but if they don't have residency programs in the specialties you're interested in, then plan on doing some summer research or some away rotations at other schools that do offer those residencies. That's how you can make contacts and get LORs for residency. Good luck with your apps.
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I used to think this but there is a balance between cost and prestige.

Matching (for that matter, medicine too) is all about statistics. You want to do whatever will increase your options. Getting a high step score, getting good third year grades and going to a strong school will each individually help to make up for something else on your application. Having been a resident and now a fellow at strong programs and coming from a relatively unknown medical school, I can tell you that people from strong med schools (and then strong residencies) often get picked over people with somewhat weaker scores from less well known schools/programs. I am not saying it is fair but it is how it is.

So you get some bang by going to a strong school, how much that counts depends on what you want to do with your life. Saving 10K over 4 years... probably worth going to the stronger school. Saving 150K over 4 years, may not be worth it going to the more expensive school.
 
Agent B said:
First time I saw a battle between residents. I'm in preallo for too long. :laugh:😳
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Yeah, I'm a fellow so what I say trumps what the residents say... isn't that how it works on SDN?
 
Instatewaiter said:
Yeah, I'm a fellow so what I say trumps what the residents say... isn't that how it works on SDN?
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Well, I strongly support the medical hierarchy, so yup. Attendings > fellows > residents > interns > med students. Although for me at least, attendings, fellows and residents are superstars. 😍:biglove:😍:biglove:

... and you nicely outed me. :cry::cry::cry:

Carry on.
 
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