What do average US med students go into?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Lord_Vader

Lord_Vader

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
193
Reaction score
158
Members do not see this ad.
I'm about as average as you can get in my class. Average Step 1 score, middle quintile, and average extracurricular experiences. What types of specialties and programs can students like me expect to match into?
 
Well I don't like surgery that's for sure. I would do derm but obviously don't have the numbers. The most competitive thing I would apply for is radiology but even with a score around ~230 I'm not sure if that would fair well for me. Besides that I'm interested in IM and peds.
 
EM? It's gotten a bit more competitive in recent years but I still think you can pull it off with average stats.

Anesthesia is a possibility too.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
NWwildcat2013 said:
EM? It's gotten a bit more competitive in recent years but I still think you can pull it off with average stats.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. I should have specified in my original post what I'm interested in but it's basically medicine, pediatrics, and radiology (if that's even a real option for me). What types of programs (i.e. tier) can I expect to match into for these specialities?
 
You can match radiology if you want with average stats. Competitiveness has tanked in the last 5-10 years. Good luck finding a job after 5 years of training. You should figure out what you like. Your stats aren't going to make the decision for you even though you'd like them to. Don't pick IM because you think you'll end up at a better program. You'll be sorely disappointed since desirable programs and locations are more competitive than many med students realize.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
MeatTornado said:
You can match radiology if you want with average stats. Competitiveness has tanked in the last 5-10 years. Good luck finding a job after 5 years of training. You should figure out what you like. Your stats aren't going to make the decision for you even though you'd like them to. Don't pick IM because you think you'll end up at a better program. You'll be sorely disappointed since desirable programs and locations are more competitive than many med students realize.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
Click to expand...

I listed IM because I'm genuinly interested in it. I wouldn't mind being at a mid-tier program.

Why is radiology becoming less competitive? I noticed at my school more people matched this year than any year previously. Do radiology graduates have trouble finding a job or something?
 
Lord_Vader said:
I listed IM because I'm genuinly interested in it. I wouldn't mind being at a mid-tier program.

Why is radiology becoming less competitive? I noticed at my school more people matched this year than any year previously. Do radiology graduates have trouble finding a job or something?
Click to expand...
982 PGY-2 slots and 151 PGY-1 slots in the most recent NRMP results, combine that with radiology being a specialty that doesn't shelf your life in your early 60s like surgical specialties do when you get older so attendings can work for far longer than the average surgeon. Hence no retirement and lots of trainees coming out of residency make for a poor job market if you want a specific area a lot of the time.
 
Lord_Vader said:
I listed IM because I'm genuinly interested in it. I wouldn't mind being at a mid-tier program.

Why is radiology becoming less competitive? I noticed at my school more people matched this year than any year previously. Do radiology graduates have trouble finding a job or something?
Click to expand...

Less competitive students are starting to flock to radiology. Same with anesthesia. Those specialties are basically "on sale" right now as the more competitive applicants have pulled out. So as a consequence you're seeing more radiology matches at some of the less competitive schools. If you go over to the DO match list thread they're celebrating radiology matches like those people won the lottery when in fact they're just filling a void left by well informed students who have the luxury of better choices.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
MeatTornado said:
Less competitive students are starting to flock to radiology. Same with anesthesia. Those specialties are basically "on sale" right now as the more competitive applicants have pulled out. So as a consequence you're seeing more radiology matches at some of the less competitive schools. If you go over to the DO match list thread they're celebrating radiology matches like those people won the lottery when in fact they're just filling a void left by well informed students who have the luxury of better choices.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
Click to expand...

They are in two different situations at the moment. Anesthesiology has always had a large gradient between the "good" programs and the "bad" programs. The work is similar, pay is still decent and there are still many competitive people applying. It's a bearish market no doubt but it's still very different from the situation in radiology where people who wouldn't be matching at all 5 years ago are matching at solid programs today. Anesthesiology isn't forcing people to do a mandatory 5th year of fellowship just to be board certified although fellowship is becoming more common. The bottom hasn't dropped out yet.
 
Does anyone know the average step1 score for radiology? I think I read somewhere that it was a 238 but I'm not sure


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
 
nets445 said:
Does anyone know the average step1 score for radiology? I think I read somewhere that it was a 238 but I'm not sure


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

It will get significantly lower since IR broke off as its own residency instead of a fellowship for the next graduating medical school classes.

At least that is my theory.
 
Pay attention specifically to page 62. There were 6 people with a 191-200 that matched vs only 2 that didnt. This trend also continues as step score rises. The fact is that there are many community radiology programs that take people with a pulse for the most part. On page 3 it shows that 768 US Seniors matched and only 12 didn't. That's a 98.4% chance. If you want radiology you'll get it unless you kill a baby during your interview according to this data.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf
 
Lord_Vader said:
Well I don't like surgery that's for sure. I would do derm but obviously don't have the numbers. The most competitive thing I would apply for is radiology but even with a score around ~230 I'm not sure if that would fair well for me. Besides that I'm interested in IM and peds.
Click to expand...
Look at Charting Outcomes- your odds aren't as bad as you think.
 
~80% chance you'll be in a non-Primary Care specialty.
~10-15% you'll be a general surgeon.



Lord_Vader said:
I'm about as average as you can get in my class. Average Step 1 score, middle quintile, and average extracurricular experiences. What types of specialties and programs can students like me expect to match into?
Click to expand...
 
Mad Jack said:
Look at Charting Outcomes- your odds aren't as bad as you think.
Click to expand...
I call 20 matching and 9 not matching pretty bad odds when its regarding such a life altering outcome (assuming that OP was <230 when OP writes ~230). Im risk averse, though.

Also, this is where I think this data is deficient. Those people probably had some combination of connections, research in derm that they had been working on for a long time, or turned things around with all honors and crushing Step 2. I doubt there are many random "maybe I'll do derm at the last minute with my 230 and average extracurriculars" people in that group.
 
NWwildcat2013 said:
I call 20 matching and 9 not matching pretty bad odds when its regarding such a life altering outcome (assuming that OP was <230 when OP writes ~230). Im risk averse, though.

Also, this is where I think this data is deficient. Those people probably had some combination of connections, research in derm that they had been working on for a long time, or turned things around with all honors and crushing Step 2. I doubt there are many random "maybe I'll do derm at the last minute with my 230 and average extracurriculars" people in that group.
Click to expand...
He's also interested in rads though. With rads, his odds are very good.
 
Mad Jack said:
He's also interested in rads though. With rads, his odds are very good.
Click to expand...
That is true. The quote you responded to included mention for both derm and rads, so I assumed the worst.

Wow, I've never looked closely at this DR data. Only 1-2 people don't match in each Step 1 interval. Looks like anyone can match as long as they don't have red flags.
 
NWwildcat2013 said:
That is true. The quote you responded to included mention for both derm and rads, so I assumed the worst.

Wow, I've never looked closely at this DR data. Only 1-2 people don't match in each Step 1 interval. Looks like anyone can match as long as they don't have red flags.
Click to expand...

That's what happens when you make fellowship de facto mandatory and don't have a great job market.
 
It's easy to match somewhere in radiology, but difficult to match at top programs still. Currently, the radiology job market appears to be a situation of pick 2 out of 3: Location, Salary, Lifestyle. Job market has been on the upswing the past year or two with old rads retiring because of the improving economy. I would not throw out radiology because of job market unless you must be in a highly desirable metro area (NYC, San Fran, etc.). And even then you will still find a job.
 
PCIRISH52 said:
It's easy to match somewhere in radiology, but difficult to match at top programs still. Currently, the radiology job market appears to be a situation of pick 2 out of 3: Location, Salary, Lifestyle. Job market has been on the upswing the past year or two with old rads retiring because of the improving economy. I would not throw out radiology because of job market unless you must be in a highly desirable metro area (NYC, San Fran, etc.). And even then you will still find a job.
Click to expand...

What do you think the near future (next 5-10 years) looks like for the radiology job market? Are fellowships eventually going to be required to find a job?
 
Lord_Vader said:
I'm about as average as you can get in my class. Average Step 1 score, middle quintile, and average extracurricular experiences. What types of specialties and programs can students like me expect to match into?
Click to expand...

there's a trend of US seniors matching to primary care. ( Internal medicine, pediatrics, family practice, psychiatry, OB-GYN, Gen Surgery)
i didn't check this rumor, hearsay from our med sctudents...but the 2016 match.. there was no open slot for PEDS during SOAP.
 
markrivers said:
there's a trend of US seniors matching to primary care. ( Internal medicine, pediatrics, family practice, psychiatry, OB-GYN, Gen Surgery)
i didn't check this rumor, hearsay from our med sctudents...but the 2016 match.. there was no open slot for PEDS during SOAP.
Click to expand...
Gen surg is considered primary care?
 
I never really considered gen surg primary care until recently. They r the primary care docs of the OR and look at their salaries. It's disheartening.
 
markrivers said:
there's a trend of US seniors matching to primary care. ( Internal medicine, pediatrics, family practice, psychiatry, OB-GYN, Gen Surgery)
i didn't check this rumor, hearsay from our med sctudents...but the 2016 match.. there was no open slot for PEDS during SOAP.
Click to expand...

Isn't that more related to there being more graduates in general though instead of a shift to primary care? I know surgery had a ton of open positions before SOAP this year, but from what I've seen so far all of the normally competitive specialties still pretty much filled up...
 
Stagg737 said:
Isn't that more related to there being more graduates in general though instead of a shift to primary care? I know surgery had a ton of open positions before SOAP this year, but from what I've seen so far all of the normally competitive specialties still pretty much filled up...
Click to expand...
What is the deal with that? Is our generation of med student just not interested in that lifestyle?
 
NWwildcat2013 said:
What is the deal with that? Is our generation of med student just not interested in that lifestyle?
Click to expand...

That's probably a significant contributor in combination with the relatively low compensation. Surgical subspecialties (except for neurosurgery) are increasing in popularity so it's not an aversion to the OR. The only difference is better lifestyle and more favorable compensation.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
MeatTornado said:
That's probably a significant contributor in combination with the relatively low compensation. Surgical subspecialties (except for neurosurgery) are increasing in popularity so it's not an aversion to the OR. The only difference is better lifestyle and more favorable compensation.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
Click to expand...

From what I've seen they make mid 300s. I can see how that may seem like a slap in the face after the brutal training.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
NWwildcat2013 said:
What is the deal with that? Is our generation of med student just not interested in that lifestyle?
Click to expand...

I know that's the issue for me. I think I'd love to cut, but pretty much any of those specialties require a lifestyle that I'm just not willing to commit to for the rest of my life (or I won't be competitive for the few that do). I'd rather take ~200k as a PCP and be able to have quality time with my family than make 300k+ and be a stranger to them.
 
Stagg737 said:
I know that's the issue for me. I think I'd love to cut, but pretty much any of those specialties require a lifestyle that I'm just not willing to commit to for the rest of my life (or I won't be competitive for the few that do). I'd rather take ~200k as a PCP and be able to have quality time with my family than make 300k+ and be a stranger to them.
Click to expand...

Hospitalist ( IM docs) can go upwards of $300 easy.
Family practice, if you play your cards right ( Botox left and right) ( tons of procedures) nexplanon etc, you can easily get 300's
and the lifestyle is way better
 
markrivers said:
Hospitalist ( IM docs) can go upwards of $300 easy.
Family practice, if you play your cards right ( Botox left and right) ( tons of procedures) nexplanon etc, you can easily get 300's
and the lifestyle is way better
Click to expand...

Oh I know, I'm just saying that after a certain point I'd pick lifestyle over the extra money every time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Should I go into child neurology?
Replies
5
Views
1K
babybrains
babybrains
B
4th Year US Med Students Needed for Research Survey
Replies
4
Views
779
bzealous
B
aricena318
What to do After Medical School
Replies
10
Views
3K
abc123412
A
I
What's the one thing to do to get into a competitive IM program?
Replies
1
Views
1K
FalconSlice
FalconSlice
R
Things to buy/do before med school starts
Replies
10
Views
2K
cerebellar
cerebellar
Top