What do you think about the 5-year med program?

[PiccoloPlaya]

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I know this has been brought up before but perhaps in other threads with different subject matter.

A lot of schools are offering this as an alternative to the traditional but draining 4-year program. It splits up the first 2 years into 3. People who do 5-years tend to learn the subject matter better and possibly do better on boards...as long as you don't mind spending another year in school (yeah it sucks but in another decade, your patients aren't going to care anyway as long as you're a good doctor). Some of you on here might be on a 5-year, and not necessarily just because of bad grades and/or personal circumstances such as illness, death in family etc., but just because you don't want to (or can't) handle the workload. Many schools also offer the 5th year for very little tuition, or the 4 year tuition is split into 5, so you are basically just paying for your apt/groceries. I myself really don't mind that idea, because first year I was out of school for a month since my mom had brain surgery, and being egotistical little ol' me I thought I could handle it, and I got really behind with basically no hope to catch up.

I would say the best 5-year would be the one that lets you mix first and second year classes so the third year would give you optimal study time for the USMLE Step 1. For example, the first year you would take 2/3 of your first year classes, second year remaining 1/3 first year classes and 1/3 second year classes, third year remaining 2/3 second year classes and board prep.

What do you guys think about this? Any responses are appreciated. 😀

 

[71263]

I think it would be a really good idea. It would keep med students more relaxed and help them learn it better. As long as it wouldnt cost any more, I think most people wouldnt mind that.

Its kinda ironic though. Right now, there are 6 yr med progams (starting undergrad) where people go straight from high school and finish their MD in 6 yrs instead of the traditional 8. I guess some people are just crazy like that.

BTW, do any schools actually offer this 5 yr program?

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

5 yrs would make me want to jump off a monkey by the time i was a 4th year - and i havent even started yet.

 

[fantasty]

Yes - lots of schools offer a 5-year program. We do (Iowa), and I know of plenty of others, although some offer it for those in certain circumstances (illness, babies, etc). I believe Yale encourages a 5th year for any interested student to research, take electives, etc (if I remember right, they waive tuition that year but I'm not 100% sure).

I'm sure my opinion will be wildly unpopular. But, I really think ALL med schools should go to a 5-year curriculum. The first 2 years are way too dense, and all things "soft" are considered fluff and unimportant. I would rather all students get a chance to learn more about the humanistic side of medicine in a serious manner (ethics, public health, nutrition, behavioral science, sexuality, human development, health care systems, etc). And, if we had 3 years to work with, it would be easier to balance the hard core sciences with things that are a little less intense but no less important.

But, in an atmosphere where 4 is the norm, students find it hard to justify taking the extra year without a strong reason. And, if a single school went to this model, most students would probably opt to go somewhere else. But, I think it would help morale a lot to have a more pleasant and well-rounded program.

 

[internetwop]

my friend is in 5-year program & she loves it. she said she will feel better prepared for everything ahead-boards, etc.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Can we start a list of the 5-year programs?

 

[scooter31]

Pretty sure G.Washington has 5 year program, though you need to be invited to it-- they offer it based on your scores and interview, in that if you have an area lacking (say, low GPA but all other things look good), they will grant you admission, but only if you stretch it over 5 years.

 

[UDbiochem]

NJMS lets you spread out first year into two years if you really want to, that's what a tour guide told us on our housing day tour/luncheon.

I don't have an opinion on whether 5 years would be better or not since I'm starting med school in a month!!

 

[lorelei]

I think I remember hearing that at OSU, if you choose the independent study pathway, you can spread the first two years over three years - they said a lot of students who had major family obligations did that.

 

[TheFlash]

actually, taking 5 years isn't unheard of at all. however, this is usually when one of those is an extra research year if you're truly interested in science/trying to get a competitive residency spot. i have to admit that i haven't ever heard of taking 3 years on purpose for basic sciences alone. the LCME designs and approves curriculums pretty rigorously. part of the fact that you got selected for medical school is because you're (supposedly) able to handle the 2 year crash course in basic science.

 

[fantasty]

part of the fact that you got selected for medical school is because you're (supposedly) able to handle the 2 year crash course in basic science.

I thought we were selected because we would be good doctors 🙂 I know a lot of people who really struggled with material during the basic science years but became rockstars on the wards. (And, some who do really well in the beginning can't interact with patients if their lives depended on it).

But, all kidding aside, I do see your point. There are plenty of people who may have been decent health care providers but who are excluded from med school because they don't have the necessary scientific aptitude. But, the more "family-friendly" med schools understand that there are benefits to allowing students to progress who may also have children, unexpected illnesses, marginal performance in a single or very few courses, etc.

 

[ocean11]

I know this has been brought up before but perhaps in other threads with different subject matter.

A lot of schools are offering this as an alternative to the traditional but draining 4-year program. It splits up the first 2 years into 3. People who do 5-years tend to learn the subject matter better and possibly do better on boards...as long as you don't mind spending another year in school (yeah it sucks but in another decade, your patients aren't going to care anyway as long as you're a good doctor). Some of you on here might be on a 5-year, and not necessarily just because of bad grades and/or personal circumstances such as illness, death in family etc., but just because you don't want to (or can't) handle the workload. Many schools also offer the 5th year for very little tuition, or the 4 year tuition is split into 5, so you are basically just paying for your apt/groceries. I myself really don't mind that idea, because first year I was out of school for a month since my mom had brain surgery, and being egotistical little ol' me I thought I could handle it, and I got really behind with basically no hope to catch up.

I would say the best 5-year would be the one that lets you mix first and second year classes so the third year would give you optimal study time for the USMLE Step 1. For example, the first year you would take 2/3 of your first year classes, second year remaining 1/3 first year classes and 1/3 second year classes, third year remaining 2/3 second year classes and board prep.

What do you guys think about this? Any responses are appreciated. 😀

Hi I have a quick question, are you doing the 5 year program?

I think its a good idea, you'll definetly do better on your boards. For me, its not an option though, as I already took some time off after undergrad and want to graduate med school FAAAAAST while I'm in my 20's LOL, but if you are like 20 or 21 even 22 or 23 its not such a big deal. If it makes you a more mature and responsible doctor then it is definetly the right chioce to make. The only sucky thing is that you don't graduate with your friends....

 

[Gut Shot]

What do you guys think about this? Any responses are appreciated. 😀

If every medical school went to three years of basic science, the curricula would all just expand to fill those three years with more garbage, er, material. The NBME wants to flunk 5% of first time boards takers, so the boards would just get harder and the passing threshold would rise.

Then threads would start on SDN discussing the merits of four years of basic science.

 

[AJM]

A lot of schools are offering this as an alternative to the traditional but draining 4-year program. It splits up the first 2 years into 3. People who do 5-years tend to learn the subject matter better and possibly do better on boards...as long as you don't mind spending another year in school (yeah it sucks but in another decade, your patients aren't going to care anyway as long as you're a good doctor). Some of you on here might be on a 5-year, and not necessarily just because of bad grades and/or personal circumstances such as illness, death in family etc., but just because you don't want to (or can't) handle the workload. Many schools also offer the 5th year for very little tuition, or the 4 year tuition is split into 5, so you are basically just paying for your apt/groceries. I myself really don't mind that idea, because first year I was out of school for a month since my mom had brain surgery, and being egotistical little ol' me I thought I could handle it, and I got really behind with basically no hope to catch up.

I would say the best 5-year would be the one that lets you mix first and second year classes so the third year would give you optimal study time for the USMLE Step 1. For example, the first year you would take 2/3 of your first year classes, second year remaining 1/3 first year classes and 1/3 second year classes, third year remaining 2/3 second year classes and board prep.

You just described the Stanford program exactly, except that 5 years is the norm, not an alternative. About 70-80% of Stanford med students do med school in 5 or more years. It is not because they "can't handle the workload", but there are a lot of incentives for them to do other scholarly activities, such as research or teaching. I didn't know any med student at Stanford who did 5 years and didn't do research. I disagree with your idea of being able to learn the material better, though. I myself did the 5 year plan at Stanford, and I was so busy with research and TAing classes, as well as all my other activities, that I never had time for studying. I don't feel like I ever knew the material better than the 4-year folks, especially since the people on the 4-year plan only had their own classes to worry about. Plus, it's really hard to remember everything you learned 1st year when you have to study for step 1 during the 3rd year -- 3 years is a really long time! That said, I'm really happy I did med school in 5 years, and wouldn't have changed a thing if I were to go back and do it again.

By the way, as a little known fact for any of you interested - a few years ago Stanford med came extremely close to creating a mandatory 5 year curriculum. All the students would have been required to do research while their preclinical classes were spread out over a 3 year period -- they even talked about giving a combined MS/MD degree to the non-MD/PhD students to give the students something tangible to show for their extra time. This was a hot topic of debate among both faculty and students for a time -- the compromise ended up being that the 5 year plan would remain optional, but every student is now required to pursue a scholarly concentration.

 

[PiccoloPlaya]

Hi there Oceans11! check your pm box

 

[PiccoloPlaya]

Wait until you actually START med school before making comments. Wait and see how your first set of exams go, I can gaurantee you'll be praying to pass. You won't be jumping off a monkey, you'll be off your rocker in Davey John's locker...

5 yrs would make me want to jump off a monkey by the time i was a 4th year - and i havent even started yet.

 

[1Path]

Hi there! How are you doing. Yeah, it's me, who posted under the "help i'm failing out of med school" thread LOL. Ok, let me tell you what happened this summer - so I took most of my exams and passed all the ones I've taken so far, and I am still waiting on hearing what I got in my other retakes.

From a fomer fellow piccolo playa (I "retired" after I mastered the Stars and Stripes piccolo solo in college") and currently still playing the flute, good luck!! 🙂

 

[jake2]

Duke Med does all it's basic sciences in one year, and they seem to do okay. Last year's class had an average board score of around 235 if I remember correctly. I have a feeling they would be somewhat reluctant to spread that one year into three. 😉

 

[fantasty]

Duke Med does all it's basic sciences in one year, and they seem to do okay. Last year's class had an average board score of around 235 if I remember correctly. I have a feeling they would be somewhat reluctant to spread that one year into three. 😉

Damn! I didn't know that, but you're right (obviously). You can go to the AAMC webpage (http://services.aamc.org/currdir/section2/schematicManagerRemote.cfm) where they show each school's curriculum in a nice schematic. They have arranged things pretty nice so I can see how they put together a solid year without any time being too overwhelming.

 

[PiccoloPlaya]

Doing the basic science curriculum all in one year such as Duke does is quite possible if you do the "one-course-at-a-time" thing along with the self-study thing. Sadly, most classes in medical school are pointless to attend anyway. Think about it - although it would be the same amount of studying hours/day, it would make things a lot easier than trying to juggle 8 classes at once. For example, let's say you learned anatomy or physiology first. If you finished the entire course in a couple months focusing only on those subjects and gave a week off (or at least a few days) to study for the final, everything else in medical school would make sense after that because those are 2 basic foundation classes. It might get boring learning the same thing day after day, but at least everything would make sense because you would already be oriented to the human body and you wouldn't have to be playing catch-up in your other subjects. You see what I'm saying?

 

[TheFlash]

Hi there! How are you doing. Yeah, it's me, who posted under the "help i'm failing out of med school" thread LOL. Ok, let me tell you what happened this summer - so I took most of my exams and passed all the ones I've taken so far, and I am still waiting on hearing what I got in my other retakes. Something happened (not a bad thing, just a long story and it's personal) so I didn't get to finish everything, but that's ok. Next year I will be taking anatomy, histology, neuroscience, and am still waiting to find out if I passed embryology, physiology, and intro to clinical med. If I didn't, I'll just take those classes and go on five year. If I did pass, I'll take a couple M2 courses such as path, micro, pharm or a sophomore elective and see if will fit so then 3rd year I will have optimal time for Step 1 studying. Oh yeah, and true I will miss not doing rotations with my friends, but since I've been here over the summer I've met a bunch of incoming med students and have made friends with them. I have even met a really nice sweet guy I like and think he likes me back, but let me pass my courses first before I even think about dating! 🙂

hmmm interesting. many schools will not let you begin third year until you've taken (and attempted to pass) step I.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

Damn! I didn't know that, but you're right (obviously). You can go to the AAMC webpage (http://services.aamc.org/currdir/section2/schematicManagerRemote.cfm) where they show each school's curriculum in a nice schematic. They have arranged things pretty nice so I can see how they put together a solid year without any time being too overwhelming.

man. some schools have really jacked up curriculums. pathology in 1 semester is nearly insane.

 

[Espion]

3 years of theory and 2 years of clinical? I would only think it is a good idea if it was the other way around. I don't learn medicine from books, I learn it from the patients. But that's just me, I guess.