what does everyone think?

[stoday]

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Hi guys/gals,

Just wanted to know everyone's thoughts about this email question from my friend:
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The MCAT scores are BS 6, VR 7, and PS 7. I will be graduating with an MPH in a few months. What chances do I have of getting into a med. school? Should I retake the MCAT? or should I just give it a shot and see if I get in? I have extensive clinical experience abroad in developing countries. I have started my own company, established an online journal that studies public health issues of developing countries, and set up a charity to help financially challenged elementary schools in Gambia.
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Feel free to be as frank as you can based on your / someone you know's experiences. If you have questions, let me know and I can get them answered for you.

Merci beaucoup.

 

[dr.z]

I would recommend retaking MCAT first. If not I would recommend DO school, but I'm guessing your friend is only interested in MD schools.

 

[stoday]

yes, he would like to attend an allopathic medical school

 

[constructor]

chances are almost nil to be honest, unless he's a URM (even then i wouldn't expect him to get into more than one or two schools if fortunate). MPH doesn't mean much because many people now get it and med schools realize that it's a pretty bogus and meaningless degree. retaking the mcat and getting above 30 would do wonders for his chances.

 

[MEG@COOL]

Needs a higher MCAT. The average MCAT for accepted people is about 30. Get at least a 27 to have a chance probably.

 

[Blade28]

GPA? What undergraduate program?

 

[MadameLULU]

MPH doesn't mean much because many people now get it and med schools realize that it's a pretty bogus and meaningless degree.

Constructor, you have NO idea what you are talking about. Obviously you dont know much about MPH programs......

 

[bigdan]

OP-
Your chances...err, you friends chances...are abysmal with the MCAT posted. If there are other associated circumstances (GPA, some reason the MCAT sucked, URM status) the chances may improve considerably.

Madame-

Good call on constructor's comments. Seems like a lot of folks are getting high school diplomas and bachelors degrees, and medical schools still seem pretty interested in those degrees.

dc

 

[CalBeE]

The primary concern of med schools will be if he can handle the rigorous curriculum of med school, cause it IS intense. Definitely retake the MCAT instead of taking the chance to apply now.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

he defintely needs to retake the MCAT and score considerably higher. What's his GPA? His other background seems great but unfortunately they also put a lot of weight on scores.

 

[terzian]

Retake. If the MCAT were near the national average for applicants, I would say go for it with all of those outstanding ECs, but many schools have cutoffs of about 8 in every category (24 avg). Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten from seeing the stats of people rejected presecondary from schools that screen. I'm sure if your friend prepared for the test and took it again, he could score much higher. 🙂

 

[dnelsen]

Constructor, you have NO idea what you are talking about. Obviously you dont know much about MPH programs......

I would have to agree with constructor.

My wife is doing a joint MPH/DVM degree and the MPH degree is a joke. Not that med schools don't value it, as I'm sure it is somewhat valuable.

Seems like a lot of folks are getting high school diplomas and bachelors degrees, and medical schools still seem pretty interested in those degrees.

The difference is that those degrees are required by almost all medical schools, while an MPH is not a requirement.

When talking with admissions folks in different schools, it seems that graduate grades don't matter much and they are usually ignored for admissions purposes. In most graduate programs they only give out B's and A's.

 

[stoday]

Thanks everyone.

I asked him re. his GPA..he said his bcmp (spelling?) average was: 3.29. His undergrad gpa was something like 2.9..i am not sure..and his master's gpa will be around >3.5 since he is still studying the program.

what is a URM status?

again, thanks to everyone for their feedbacks.

 

[dnelsen]

what is a URM status?

URM = under represented minority (black, hispanic, etc.)

 

[PookieGirl]

I would have to agree with constructor.

My wife is doing a joint MPH/DVM degree and the MPH degree is a joke. Not that med schools don't value it, as I'm sure it is somewhat valuable.



The difference is that those degrees are required by almost all medical schools, while an MPH is not a requirement.

When talking with admissions folks in different schools, it seems that graduate grades don't matter much and they are usually ignored for admissions purposes. In most graduate programs they only give out B's and A's.

The MPH is a DIFFERENT degree. While it is not rocket science, it does teach you things about public health that doctors are not necessarily trained to do. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people with MPHs complain about doctors who think they know all about public health. PH concerns itself with populations, while an MD concerns itself with individuals; thus the training is different.

Why do people feel they're better than others because they have an MD? It's a degree, not something that makes you a better person.

 

[constructor]

i went to a presentation by admissions directors at the university of california schools and someone asked a question about MPH. i was considering doing it at the time, thinking it might be an easy way to boost my application.

they said they get a lot of people who do MPH because they simply have nothing better to do in the year off which is fine, but that it is not something that will have a significant impact on their application because everyone who does it invariably does very well. they said that in the event of a tie, they would probably give the MPH candidate admission but that it's the last thing they would consider. they encouraged a master's program in the sciences or engineering because they said this would show better that we can handle the rigors of graduate school (if that's intent in taking graduate level courses to boost your application). so i took away two things from what they said: it's too common and everyone does well (it will surely not separate you or give you an advantage until the very end), and the degree itself is not very meaningful.

i don't understand the relevance of your comment about everyone getting a bachelor's and a high school degree and those degrees still being meaningful. last time i checked, nobody got an advantage for getting those degrees. again, we're talking about using a master's degree to gain advantage (which i think is why most people do it - why else would you do it when you have so many years of med school left?)... and the advantage you gain are not that substantial because the uc's at least don't see it as any more difficult or worthy than your undergraduate studies.

 

[dnelsen]

The MPH is a DIFFERENT degree. While it is not rocket science, it does teach you things about public health that doctors are not necessarily trained to do. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people with MPHs complain about doctors who think they know all about public health. PH concerns itself with populations, while an MD concerns itself with individuals; thus the training is different.

Why do people feel they're better than others because they have an MD? It's a degree, not something that makes you a better person.

I understand that the MPH degree teaches health from a different angle. My argument is that the MPH program is OBJECTIVELY easier than almost all other graduate programs. I think they dumb it down because many people that do MPH are gov't workers, and we all know about them...

 

[constructor]

I think they dumb it down because many people that do MPH are gov't workers, and we all know about them...

 

[MadameLULU]

I would have to agree with constructor.

My wife is doing a joint MPH/DVM degree and the MPH degree is a joke. Not that med schools don't value it, as I'm sure it is somewhat valuable.



The difference is that those degrees are required by almost all medical schools, while an MPH is not a requirement.

When talking with admissions folks in different schools, it seems that graduate grades don't matter much and they are usually ignored for admissions purposes. In most graduate programs they only give out B's and A's.

Actually, the joke isn't the MPH degree it's the combined MD/MPH or DVM/MPH program. I am SOO against those programs. I'm currently getting an MPH and I've seen so many med students come through here in a year and they dont get anything out of it. They are so rushed to take the core courses and write their thesis, that there simply is not enough time for them to get immersed in the entire field or do quality research.
Before you knock the MPH degree, perhaps you should get a better perspective....

 

[MadameLULU]

I understand that the MPH degree teaches health from a different angle. My argument is that the MPH program is OBJECTIVELY easier than almost all other graduate programs. I think they dumb it down because many people that do MPH are gov't workers, and we all know about them...

This is a bunch of crap. They "dumb" it down..."there are a lot of gov't workers"...okay.. you dont know what you're talking about

Is the MPH degree pure science-- it depends on what the student takes. I have had my fair share of epi courses, biostatistics courses, and regression analys (which counts as BPCM). In addition, I've taken a lot of mutldiscipline courses on health behavior and education programs, b/c that is ultimately what I want to do. I wouldn't say it is easy or difficult...it really depends on the person and how much work they want to put into the program and what they want to get out of it

 

[YzIa]

Back on topic, the mcat and gpa are both low. Plain and simple the MCAT is not allopathic quality by any means. You hear stories once in a great while of this one person who got in with a low 20 as a urm to an allopathic school. whether or not there is any truth has no impact that the chances so far unlikely that there is little point to waste the money. the gpa is low, but possibly may be compensated for by a high MCAT. From what I know, graduate grades are expected to be high due to inflation, so while the MPH has some value (questionable) the 3.5 does not boost his app much, but may serve to help overlook that 2.9. Ouch.

this friend has little chance of at an american allopathic school without some major work on his numbers.

 

[Medikit]

Constructor, you have NO idea what you are talking about. Obviously you dont know much about MPH programs......

I think he's right


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OP, Your friend should consider DO school or foreign medical schools, his scores are just too low. One section below an 8 is really bad. Sometimes enough to kill an application.

 

[Mr. Seeds]

Back on topic, the mcat and gpa are both low. Plain and simple the MCAT is not allopathic quality by any means. You hear stories once in a great while of this one person who got in with a low 20 as a urm to an allopathic school. whether or not there is any truth has no impact that the chances so far unlikely that there is little point to waste the money. the gpa is low, but possibly may be compensated for by a high MCAT. From what I know, graduate grades are expected to be high due to inflation, so while the MPH has some value (questionable) the 3.5 does not boost his app much, but may serve to help overlook that 2.9. Ouch.

this friend has little chance of at an american allopathic school without some major work on his numbers.

Agreed. 2.9/21 is not going to go far with allopathic or osteopathic schools. The MPH will in no way compensate for a low MCAT AND a low ugrad GPA. Some osteopathic schools might be interested in interviewing him, but it is still doubtful. Sorry if this sounds harsh. It is just my opinion.

 

[YzIa]

Looking at this again, I am going to be a bit more harsh. Your friends accomplishments in undergrad, grad, and on the mcat in now way reflect the ability or intelligence that is necessary for medical school. No way without a retake and possibly a postbac to raise the undergrad gpa that he gets interviews at allopathic schools.

 

[stoday]

Hey guys,

again, thanks for the great input. Gosh..doesnt look like he stands a chance unless he does good on the Mcats. What would u recommend he has to aim for with such a gpa?

 

[Uegis]

Hey guys,

again, thanks for the great input. Gosh..doesnt look like he stands a chance unless he does good on the Mcats. What would u recommend he has to aim for with such a gpa?

For DO, I'd say a 28. For allopathic, AT LEAST 30, but to be really competitive, i think more along the lines of 32 and above.

 

[stoday]

Thanks Uegis
....anyone else have thoughts about this?

 

[Fed Meat]

In all candor, your friend needs to devote a year to post-bac and to retaking the MCAT if a career in medicine is in his future. He has essentially no chance of getting into any school outside of the Caribbean as is.

I would say that a year in post-bac with straight As and a 28+ on the MCAT would go a long way. He should definitely be willing to consider DO schools, as well. Given his low GPA, he doesn't have much room to claim he will only attend allopathic schools. He may have some room depending on which state he is from (e.g. better chances in Ohio or Texas than Colorado or California).

 

[stoday]

Hi Fed Meat,

Thanks for your frankness....about the postbac programs, is that just taking the courses he already took (like the premedical requirements) over again? This gives a certificate/diploma?

And what did you mean by:

He may have some room depending on which state he is from (e.g. better chances in Ohio or Texas than Colorado or California).

 

[rgporter]

I think you, er I mean your friend, should retake the MCAT. Just get in the ball park of 30 and you, um...he, will be golden.

Hi guys/gals,

Just wanted to know everyone's thoughts about this email question from my friend:
---
The MCAT scores are BS 6, VR 7, and PS 7. I will be graduating with an MPH in a few months. What chances do I have of getting into a med. school? Should I retake the MCAT? or should I just give it a shot and see if I get in? I have extensive clinical experience abroad in developing countries. I have started my own company, established an online journal that studies public health issues of developing countries, and set up a charity to help financially challenged elementary schools in Gambia.
---

Feel free to be as frank as you can based on your / someone you know's experiences. If you have questions, let me know and I can get them answered for you.

Merci beaucoup.

 

[superdood]

yes, he would like to attend an allopathic medical school

can't resist

are you replying that osteopathic schools aren't as good as allopathic schools? a doctor is a doctor...

this post does not reflect my opinions.

 

[aparecida]

OP, in some states it's easier to get in to the state schools than in other states. There is a lot of competition in California for in-state admission to the state schools, whereas Texas has a number of medical schools which are relatively easier to get in to for in-state residents.

Postbac programs: some colleges have specific "postbaccalaureate programs," but it's not necessary to enroll in one of these; he should, at minimum, retake the basic premed requirements and get A's so that there's a year of solid A work on his record, and retake the MCAT after getting that review of the science by retaking the classes.

If he really does know the science and for some reason is an abysmal test taker, he should take upper level science classes (again, to establish a solid academic background) and enroll in an MCAT prep class to improve his test taking skills.