What drew you to DO vs. MD?

[MJB]

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I am a person thinking about trying to go back to school and get into Med School, and I'm torn about which to attend, a DO or an MD program. I tend to believe that I side more with the DO mentality of medicine, but would love to hear more from those of you actually living it.

Also, I have noticed/heard that Osteopathic schools tend to be more receptive to non-trads like myself...and I will most likely plan to go into FP when out of school.

 

[dcratamt]

I went to DO school because of OMM. I was getting some awesome results as a P.T. and thought wow what if a physician could offer this to his pts and still do the rest of medicine.

 

[medicine1]

The logical idea that the body wants to be well, and when there are impediments, disease can insue.
Once these impediments are removed (cancer, mechanical/physical strain, improper blood/lymph flow, etc.), the body is then able to heal itself.
DOs look for the true etiology (cause) of a disease and look at ways to correct and fix the problem (enviornment, lifestyle, psych, behavior,diet, etc) so that the body is able to become well again.
(Osteopathy 'Research and Practice', A.T. Still Copyright 1910)

 

[OSUdoc08]

I am a person thinking about trying to go back to school and get into Med School, and I'm torn about which to attend, a DO or an MD program. I tend to believe that I side more with the DO mentality of medicine, but would love to hear more from those of you actually living it.

Also, I have noticed/heard that Osteopathic schools tend to be more receptive to non-trads like myself...and I will most likely plan to go into FP when out of school.

Better opportunities in emergency medicine......

 

[Aphelion]

Performing medical missions in underserved areas. Anything I can do with my hands, I can do for free.

 

[Nate]

Performing medical missions in underserved areas. Anything I can do with my hands, I can do for free.

 

[MJB]

I went to DO school because of OMM. I was getting some awesome results as a P.T. and thought wow what if a physician could offer this to his pts and still do the rest of medicine.

Interesting, a lot of my way of thinking comes from my days of volunteering for a PT...I loved that line of work.

 

[BlackSheep20]

Because I want to be a physician. I am also open minded to holistic ideas. That said I think all treatments need to be proven effective by sound research for use to be legitimate. Unfortunately this is not the case with OMM. Though it has been shown to be effective without appropriate controls, when up against sham OMM it has been shown repeatedly now to have no measurable benefit. This however may be due to inadequate experimental design. I'm still keeping an open mind. But I don't believe that anyone should go to D.O. school because they "believe in OMM". Unless there is clear cut evidence for efficacy over sham (which rules out placebo), the rest will continue to be belief and here-say. There are many stories of " I witnessed so many people get better". This is not science, patients love to please practitioners as well. Follow these people up a year later and have a control group with sham OMM then talk to me.
I chose DO school because I wanted to be a physician and stay in CA and did not get into other CA med schools. I plan on being an excellent physician and not treating my patients with anything because I "believe in it" but because it is proven effective and thus I can expect it has a good chance of benefiting my patient. A physician is a scientist and any good physician, D.O. or M.D. must be a scientist, any less is lacking integrity and just plain morally wrong. If you don't want science become an N.D. OMM will either crumble or be shown legitimate when exposed to good science either way, D.O.s must still be committed to being sound physicians.
For a great review of this research and excellent commentary by a D.O. read
The Elephant in the Room: Does OMT Have Proved Benefit? by Bryan E. Bledsoe,*DO, FACEP. You can get this paper free off medline.
Some will ask, "how can you go to DO school and not believe in OMM?!" I am not the first and will not be that last who goes because they want to better society as a physician, not because of belief. There are many who go who are not honest with themselves or others, this is quite sad.
I asked a D.O. once when I was making up my mind whether one has to believe in OMM to go to D.O. school. He told me, "of course not, I don't even know if it really works." He also told me, forget about initials, "do you want to be a doctor or don't you? If you do, do it, OMM is just a class you have to pass."

 

[topworm]

That said I think all treatments need to be proven effective by sound research for use to be legitimate. Unfortunately this is not the case with OMM. Though it has been shown to be effective without appropriate controls, when up against sham OMM it has been shown repeatedly now to have no measurable benefit. This however may be due to inadequate experimental design. I'm still keeping an open mind. But I don't believe that anyone should go to D.O. school because they "believe in OMM". Unless there is clear cut evidence for efficacy over sham (which rules out placebo), the rest will continue to be belief and here-say. There are many stories of " I witnessed so many people get better". This is not science, patients love to please practitioners as well. QUOTE]

The reason I was drawn to OMM was not the fact that it may be a cure for disease, but that it will undoubtedly increase my knowledge of anatomy and help me gain more of an intuitive feel for the body than a cadaver ever could.

I got this idea after talking to a massuse, who suggested that I take some massage classes, like other doctors he had known. I didn't know of D.O.'s yet, so once I heard I could get the same benefit in school, taught alongside actual medical material, was particularly appealing.

Although massage is not the same as OMT, and I too am open to the idea that it may one day be proved effective for various forms of disease, you can't discount the side benefits of these classes for internalizing body awareness. This enhances certain material in courses that you would not get otherwise.

 

[Zoolanderr]

I too decided to go because I wanted to be a physician and it didn't matter to me too much whether it was D.O. or M.D. . I'm also not sure how I feel about OMM, I would actually prefer if it were elective. I chose my school for location as well.

 

[DORoe]

I too decided to go because I wanted to be a physician and it didn't matter to me too much whether it was D.O. or M.D. . I'm also not sure how I feel about OMM, I would actually prefer if it were elective. I chose my school for location as well.

You want to make one of the main things that defines osteopathic medicine and make it an elective?

 

[tastytreat]

I just wanted patient contact as early as possible. The cerebral stuff pretty much any med school can teach you. What I wanted was not to go into my 3rd and 4th year clerkships never having touched another human being. Our program (MSU-COM) has clinical skills classes starting in the very first semester. This includes practicing on actual human beings.

By second semester we're doing invasive stuff, eg. breast and pelvic exams. This is the stuff I'd like to have exposure to before I'm thrown into a hospital setting so I don't look entirely clueless. No disrespect intended to our MD brethren but most allopathic programs (including the MD program here at MSU) don't have this early clinical experience in their curriculum.

I'm not big into OMM but any additional tool I learn to help me treat people is always welcome. The more treatment options I have the better doctor I'll be.

 

[DOtobe]

I just wanted patient contact as early as possible. The cerebral stuff pretty much any med school can teach you. What I wanted was not to go into my 3rd and 4th year clerkships never having touched another human being. Our program (MSU-COM) has clinical skills classes starting in the very first semester. This includes practicing on actual human beings.

By second semester we're doing invasive stuff, eg. breast and pelvic exams. This is the stuff I'd like to have exposure to before I'm thrown into a hospital setting so I don't look entirely clueless. No disrespect intended to our MD brethren but most allopathic programs (including the MD program here at MSU) don't have this early clinical experience in their curriculum.

The clinical experience was one of the main reasons I chose LECOM. We began working with our preceptors in our second semester and by the second year we had done breast exams, pelvic exams, etc. We learned how to write SOAP notes, prescriptions, admit orders, etc. early so we weren't clueless when we started rotations. Tastytreat is right in that most of the MD students I have talked to have not had this clinical exposure. Some students did not know what a SOAP note was before they started rotations! This might not be the case at all MD schools, but it was for students from two different MD schools that I talked to.

The other main reason I chose DO was OMM. I enjoy doing OMM, and I plan on incorporating it somehow into my practice when I become an FP.

 

[MJB]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that you pretty much have to decipher which philosophy you want to pursue and go with it, and that if you applied to both, it might be looked down upon by one or the other. I take it this is not the case?

I'm probably going to be applying mostly to regional schools, and while there are some great Osteopathic schools around, there are also a number of MD programs that I wouldn't mind being a part of...I'm more in the "I just want to be a doc" crowd, but am trying to learn more about DO. There are several UHS (KCUMB) grads in my area that I hope to speak with.

 

[tastytreat]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that you pretty much have to decipher which philosophy you want to pursue and go with it, and that if you applied to both, it might be looked down upon by one or the other. I take it this is not the case?

If anything, MDs will look down on DOs. Simply because there are fewer DOs around and *on average* entrance scores at DO schools have been lower than MD programs. This is currently changing but the process is slow. I say this also with the caveat that it depends on the region. For example, here in Michigan the osteopathic profession is well established and you don't really encounter that much MD/DO friction (at least that I've seen).

As far as philosophy is concerned, I think the difference is that DO programs have one that's explicit whereas the allopathic is somewhat more nebulous. 'Do no harm' and the Hippocratic oath notwithstanding, DOs seem to have a more encompassing view on medicine.

One other thing I'd like to throw in here. Go visit the schools in your area and get a sense of what the people are like. I feel like I've got a somewhat unique perspective because we have both an MD and DO program in the same school and all our basic science classes are shared with the MD students so we spend a lot of time with them. From this experience and from reading the class biography books that both programs release I've noticed a few trends. These are generalizations and obviously don't apply to everyone:

DO profile: "I spent a few years working in a different field decided medicine is what I want to devote myself to, etc etc"
MD profile: "I spent several years in research/right out of college wanting to go into medicine, etc etc"

On the whole, the DO students here are a bit more mellow (though we have our share of gunners, oh yes we do) whereas the MDs are bit more intense school wise. More of the DOs will go into family practice while more of the MDs will do clinical research, that's the way it has been. So basically, you have to decide where you see yourself being comfortable and what works best. Good luck.

 

[DORoe]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that you pretty much have to decipher which philosophy you want to pursue and go with it, and that if you applied to both, it might be looked down upon by one or the other. I take it this is not the case?

I'm probably going to be applying mostly to regional schools, and while there are some great Osteopathic schools around, there are also a number of MD programs that I wouldn't mind being a part of...I'm more in the "I just want to be a doc" crowd, but am trying to learn more about DO. There are several UHS (KCUMB) grads in my area that I hope to speak with.

It will not be looked down upon. Most adcoms know that you have to spread your applications out if you want to be a doc. I told my interviewers the schools to which I applied (MD and DO) and it was not a problem.

 

[Old_Mil]

Also, I have noticed/heard that Osteopathic schools tend to be more receptive to non-trads like myself...and I will most likely plan to go into FP when out of school.

As a nontraditional student, I'd recommend that 25% of your applications should be to DO schools. You want to use a strategy in your application process that ensures that you'll get in on the first try so you don't have to waste additional years of your life reapplying.

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

What drew you to DO vs. MD?

PRESTIGE, isn't it obvious?

 

[david.pcsom]

Having been a massage therapist for 13 yrs in a allo chronic pain clinic, working in a lvl 1 ed and other areas of a county hospital, I was drawn by the evidence based holistic approach to medicine, and the general approachable attitude/friendliness of the diff osteo med schools, residents, and practicing doc's I met over my years.

 

[jnpeacoc]

I will admit, I initially chose to apply to DO schools to have a 'safe school' option in the application process. My stats are strong canidate in MD schools, but near guaranteed acceptance in DOs. But after really learning about the schools and the philosophies behind them, I fit the mold of a DO student much better. It just feels right for me.

Also, during the application process there was a STARK difference between DO and MD schools. DO schools and admission staff felt warm and inviting, MD schools did not. This has been consistent throughout my journey to med school. For example, I can't get my state school to even tell me if they've reviewed my application yet when my interview was mid-February, but KCOM called to tell me I was accepted two days after my interview. They've been great about making me feel like they really want me there, from helping set up our online accounts to sending my boyfriend info on the area and an invitation to a significant other/spouse orientation. It just feels like more of a complete package to me.

 

[david.pcsom]

I will admit, I initially chose to apply to DO schools to have a 'safe school' option in the application process. My stats are strong canidate in MD schools, but near guaranteed acceptance in DOs. But after really learning about the schools and the philosophies behind them, I fit the mold of a DO student much better. It just feels right for me.

Also, during the application process there was a STARK difference between DO and MD schools. DO schools and admission staff felt warm and inviting, MD schools did not. This has been consistent throughout my journey to med school. For example, I can't get my state school to even tell me if they've reviewed my application yet when my interview was mid-February, but KCOM called to tell me I was accepted two days after my interview. They've been great about making me feel like they really want me there, from helping set up our online accounts to sending my boyfriend info on the area and an invitation to a significant other/spouse orientation. It just feels like more of a complete package to me.

Here, here, I visited several allo schools a year before asserting my decision for osteo med. Each school, in my opinion, however "good" or well established, presented a sense of elitism and stressed a sense of individualism rather cohesiveness in its classes. They fostered a sense of competitiveness in each stage of the pre / post application process. Yes, competition is present in the osteo med world, but the overall approach to med and people, in my opinion, are one of tending the whole person, family, and community. Apologies for the fan fare rant… 🙂

 

[Dr Sum Day]

PRESTIGE, isn't it obvious?

good one haus! I could care less about the prestige crap. I'm an old factory worker not some pampered little sissy 😀

 

[QuietGuy]

On the whole, the DO students here are a bit more mellow (though we have our share of gunners, oh yes we do) whereas the MDs are bit more intense school wise. More of the DOs will go into family practice while more of the MDs will do clinical research, that's the way it has been. So basically, you have to decide where you see yourself being comfortable and what works best. Good luck.

Quit with the BS already!!!

 

[kaikai128]

I went to an undergrad with a really good MD school (and worked in the school), and I really just disliked that school. After deciding not to apply to my state school for that and various other reasons, I started looking at other options. Although things may be no different in an osteopathic school, I am hoping that some of the things will be. (I.e....without research, the teachers actually want to teach as opposed to being forced to because they didn't get enough funding to run their labs)...

I honestly view it as exactly the same...I only applied to DO schools (mainly because my first choice was DO and I didn't want to do two separate applications when I knew where I wanted to be). I don't get the whole "DOs are different than MDs" thing. We do the same things, and usually in the same ways, but sometimes approach things a bit differently. That's like saying that there is a real huge difference between a BA and a BS in the real world--bologna.

 

[QuietGuy]

In general, DO's are more mellow than MD's blah, blah, blah...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=201322

 

[tastytreat]

Quit with the BS already!!!

🙁 Everything I've stated is true. Also note that what I said applies to "here", as in the program I'm currently in. I make no assumptions about any other school or program.

 

[QuietGuy]

🙁 Everything I've stated is true. Also note that what I said applies to "here", as in the program I'm currently in. I make no assumptions about any other school or program.

How can I argue with facts like "DO's are generally more easy going than MD's"? They are based upon unbiased concrete evidence.

Scenario:
"A friend of mine" is a DO and worked his ass off to get a few A's and lots of B's in college. He is such a nerd. He was not able to get into any allopathic schools. Based upon my experiences with my friend, I can therefore, generalize that DO's are MD rejects. "In general", DO's work very hard but just aren't able to learn things as quickly as MD's. To mask their feelings of inadequecy, they pretend that are easy going when in fact, they aren't.

How does that generalization sound to you? This is a true story of my friend. He had no intention of going to DO school and did not even know what it was until he failed in his attempt to get into an allopathic med school. Now he goes around throwing that OMM BS everywhere as if he originally wanted to become a DO to learn OMM.

Should I make subjective and biased generalizations about DO's based upon my friend?

 

[DrB]

I feel like I've got a somewhat unique perspective because we have both an MD and DO program in the same school and all our basic science classes are shared with the MD students so we spend a lot of time with them. From this experience and from reading the class biography books that both programs release I've noticed a few trends. These are generalizations and obviously don't apply to everyone:

Seems like a nice representative sample to me, QuietGuy. I am glad that you do not make your generalization based on one DO... keep up the good work!

 

[Fenrezz]

How can I argue with facts like "DO's are generally more easy going than MD's"? They are based upon unbiased concrete evidence.

Scenario:
"A friend of mine" is a DO and worked his ass off to get a few A's and lots of B's in college. He is such a nerd. He was not able to get into any allopathic schools. Based upon my experiences with my friend, I can therefore, generalize that DO's are MD rejects. "In general", DO's work very hard but just aren't able to learn things as quickly as MD's. To mask their feelings of inadequency, they pretend that are easy going when in fact, they aren't.

How does that generalization sound to you? This is a true story of my friend. He had not intention of going to DO school and did not even know what it was until he failed in his attempt to get into an allopathic med school. Now he goes around throwing that OMM BS everywhere as if he originally wanted to become a DO.

Should I make subjective and biased generalizations about DO's based upon my friend?

Why do you even care?

 

[QuietGuy]

Why do you even care?

1. Doctors are supposed to represent the segment of society that we can trust not to prepetuate idiotic generalizations.

2. Both of my siblings are MD's and I hate it when I read stupid stuff like this.

3. I have yet to see a post in the MD forum comparing MDs Vs DOs. It annoys me to see you state obviously biased and false things about MDs just to alleviate your own insecurities. ( I do not want to offend those who have given an objective and fair assessment of MDs vs. DOs.)

Why do you even care that I care?

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

To mask their feelings of inadequency, they pretend that are easy going when in fact, they aren't.

Should I make subjective and biased generalizations about DO's based upon my friend?

I actually don't mask my feelings of inadequecy. It is true that I am pretty easy going, but I am also inadequate and I have come to terms with this troublesome fact. How I wish that I was able to score in the competitive range on the MCAT -- it just wasn't in the cards for me.

Thus, when I state that I will be a DO, I wear my badge of inadequecy proudly and smartly. Just know that I am thankful that I have an opportunity to enjoy a meaningful career and look forward to providing a comfortable life for my family of four (based, of course, upon my failure to matriculate into an allopathic school and my 'settling' for the backdoor into medicine) -- I am so inadequate that I almost feel guilty that I will be making the same amount of money as my more intelligent and adequate MD counterparts.

Fear not for I will always 'know my place' in the presence of the more respected and capable MD physician. I am but only a DO in training: humble, determined and thankful.

 

[QuietGuy]

I actually don't mask my feelings of inadequecy. It is true that I am pretty easy going, but I am also inadequate and I have come to terms with this troublesome fact. How I wish that I was able to score in the competitive range on the MCAT -- it just wasn't in the cards for me.

Thus, when I state that I will be a DO, I wear my badge of inadequecy proudly and smartly. Just know that I am thankful that I have an opportunity to enjoy a meaningful career and look forward to providing a comfortable life for my family of four (based, of course, upon my failure to matriculate into an allopathic school and my 'settling' for the backdoor into medicine) -- I am so inadequate that I almost feel guilty that I will be making the same amount of money as my more intelligent and adequate MD counterparts.

Fear not for I will always 'know my place' in the presence of the more respected and capable MD physician. I am but only a DO in training: humble, determined and thankful.

Okay.... Let's not read things completely and take my "scenario" out of context.

I was just trying to point out to tasty that he shouldn't make negative and baised statements about MD's. I know that DO's are doctor and make the same about of money as MD's. I apologize if I have offended you.

 

[tastytreat]

Okay.... Let's not read things completely and take my "scenario" out of context.

I was just trying to point out to tasty that he shouldn't make negative and baised statements about MD's. I know that DO's are doctor and make the same about of money as MD's. I apologize if I have offended you.

Where in any of the things that I wrote did you find anything that was negative or biased? Maybe you ought to re-read my posts. I'm in a program where DO and MD students interact on a daily basis. We are the only school in the country that has a DO and MD program in the same place.

Fact: the average age of the incoming MDs is lower than the DOs. More of them are straight out of college or some sort of research programs.
Fact: based on past years more of the MD students enter clinical research while the DOs fill primary care/family practice spots.
Fact: I stated my views were generalizations from what I (and hate to break it to you but some of the faculty here as well) have noticed and verbalized.

You think I'm slamming MDs because I said they're intense whereas the DOs are more mellow? That's not an insult, that's reality. I think you're reading into your own biases here somehow defining mellowness as some sort of state of mind that's better than being intense. Neither is better, it's whatever works for the individual, I'm merely pointing out trends.

Spend 2 days in the gross anatomy laboratory prior to a big practical exam and then disagree with my assertions. But then, what do I know, I'm just an insecure DO. 🙁

Now he goes around throwing that OMM BS everywhere ...

Speaking of being biased...

 

[QuietGuy]

Where in any of the things that I wrote did you find anything that was negative or biased? Maybe you ought to re-read my posts. I'm in a program where DO and MD students interact on a daily basis. We are the only school in the country that has a DO and MD program in the same place.

Fact: the average age of the incoming MDs is lower than the DOs. More of them are straight out of college or some sort of research programs.
Fact: based on past years more of the MD students enter clinical research while the DOs fill primary care/family practice spots.
Fact: I stated my views were generalizations from what I (and hate to break it to you but some of the faculty here as well) have noticed and verbalized.

You think I'm slamming MDs because I said they're intense whereas the DOs are more mellow? That's not an insult, that's reality. I think you're reading into your own biases here somehow defining mellowness as some sort of state of mind that's better than being intense. Neither is better, it's whatever works for the individual, I'm merely pointing out trends.

Spend 2 days in the gross anatomy laboratory prior to a big practical exam and then disagree with my assertions. But then, what do I know, I'm just an insecure DO. 🙁


Speaking of being biased...

Okay.. Now that you have the faculty on your side, I must concede then. The argument "I heard the faculty at my school say " is irrefutable. I thought you were merely stating a biased opinion.

I'll be quiet now while you pat yourself on the back and say how great and wonderful you are. By the way, trends are based upon the analysis of data, not just opinions or impressions. Good Luck with your continued research on analyzing the trends of an MD.

 

[Thunderlips]

DO's hold their liquor better and look better naked.

relax people, internet fighting isnt a good way to live.

 

[Freshnstylin]

ok well...these are some quite sagely words coming from a future DENTIST! Why are you even in this conference? Don't you have teeth to examine? DOs and MDs are both physicians and will be working together in the field regardless of personality differences. And for that comment about your friend, there are PLENTY of MDs out there that got accepted to medical school with very substandard GPAs, MCAT scores, and/or extracurriculars. AND there are PLENTY of people who want to be doctors who HAVE the grades/mcat scores that were NOT accepted to allopathic schools or osteopathic schools. Medical school isn't terribly difficult...the difficult part is getting in for both the allopathic and osteopathic venues. Now enough of your comments...isn't it time for you to fill some cavitities?

How can I argue with facts like "DO's are generally more easy going than MD's"? They are based upon unbiased concrete evidence.

Scenario:
"A friend of mine" is a DO and worked his ass off to get a few A's and lots of B's in college. He is such a nerd. He was not able to get into any allopathic schools. Based upon my experiences with my friend, I can therefore, generalize that DO's are MD rejects. "In general", DO's work very hard but just aren't able to learn things as quickly as MD's. To mask their feelings of inadequecy, they pretend that are easy going when in fact, they aren't.

How does that generalization sound to you? This is a true story of my friend. He had no intention of going to DO school and did not even know what it was until he failed in his attempt to get into an allopathic med school. Now he goes around throwing that OMM BS everywhere as if he originally wanted to become a DO to learn OMM.

Should I make subjective and biased generalizations about DO's based upon my friend?

 

[Freshnstylin]

Personally I think you should apply to both types of schools. I did and got accepted to both "types." My personal opinion on the whole deal has to do with the school itself. I interviewed at some osteopathic schools that I didn't like and the allopathic schools were "ok" but i didn't like them that much either. The school I liked best was KCUMB and am very excited about starting there soon. You don't need to worry about certain residencies etc. The hard ones are difficult to get no matter if you are a DO or an MD. There are DOs and MDs doing residencies at Harvard and ones doing residencies in rural hospitals. You will also find that many MDs teach and work in conjunction with DO schools. Both degrees will be working together as medicine progresses. My best suggestion for you is to go where you feel you fit best...apply to both schools...and work hard when you are there. The name of the school only goes so far...it's how hard you work and who you meet along the way that gets you where you want to go.

I am a person thinking about trying to go back to school and get into Med School, and I'm torn about which to attend, a DO or an MD program. I tend to believe that I side more with the DO mentality of medicine, but would love to hear more from those of you actually living it.

Also, I have noticed/heard that Osteopathic schools tend to be more receptive to non-trads like myself...and I will most likely plan to go into FP when out of school.

 

[QuietGuy]

ok well...these are some quite sagely words coming from a future DENTIST! Why are you even in this conference? Don't you have teeth to examine? DOs and MDs are both physicians and will be working together in the field regardless of personality differences. And for that comment about your friend, there are PLENTY of MDs out there that got accepted to medical school with very substandard GPAs, MCAT scores, and/or extracurriculars. AND there are PLENTY of people who want to be doctors who HAVE the grades/mcat scores that were NOT accepted to allopathic schools or osteopathic schools. Medical school isn't terribly difficult...the difficult part is getting in for both the allopathic and osteopathic venues. Now enough of your comments...isn't it time for you to fill some cavitities?

I am a dentist by choice. How about you hot shot? Are you a DOctor by choice?

 

[LVDoc]

I am a dentist by choice. How about you hot shot? Are you a DOctor by choice?

Here we go, all over again. Please do not resort to this. This thread is already beginning to degrade.

 

[tastytreat]

Quiet, I realize at this point you're just probably trolling but what part of the word opinion do you not understand?

 

[criminallyinane]

By second semester we're doing invasive stuff, eg. breast and pelvic exams. This is the stuff I'd like to have exposure to before I'm thrown into a hospital setting so I don't look entirely clueless. No disrespect intended to our MD brethren but most allopathic programs (including the MD program here at MSU) don't have this early clinical experience in their curriculum.

I'm not sure that's an accurate statement about allopathic programs, but I agree with you that early clinical exposure is great.

 

[MJB]

Personally I think you should apply to both types of schools. I did and got accepted to both "types." My personal opinion on the whole deal has to do with the school itself. I interviewed at some osteopathic schools that I didn't like and the allopathic schools were "ok" but i didn't like them that much either. The school I liked best was KCUMB and am very excited about starting there soon. You don't need to worry about certain residencies etc. The hard ones are difficult to get no matter if you are a DO or an MD. There are DOs and MDs doing residencies at Harvard and ones doing residencies in rural hospitals. You will also find that many MDs teach and work in conjunction with DO schools. Both degrees will be working together as medicine progresses. My best suggestion for you is to go where you feel you fit best...apply to both schools...and work hard when you are there. The name of the school only goes so far...it's how hard you work and who you meet along the way that gets you where you want to go.

Thanks for the tips...

The more I look at this, the option of KCUMB becomes more and more appealing and could become my top choice for many, many reasons.

 

[BoneDoc]

I just wanted patient contact as early as possible. The cerebral stuff pretty much any med school can teach you. What I wanted was not to go into my 3rd and 4th year clerkships never having touched another human being. Our program (MSU-COM) has clinical skills classes starting in the very first semester. This includes practicing on actual human beings.

By second semester we're doing invasive stuff, eg. breast and pelvic exams. This is the stuff I'd like to have exposure to before I'm thrown into a hospital setting so I don't look entirely clueless. No disrespect intended to our MD brethren but most allopathic programs (including the MD program here at MSU) don't have this early clinical experience in their curriculum.

I'm not big into OMM but any additional tool I learn to help me treat people is always welcome. The more treatment options I have the better doctor I'll be.

Unless things have changed at the MSU allopathic program, clinical skills and "patient contact" are equally emphasized. I am aware of the great education provided by MSU COM as many of my friends have graduated from the program and are awesome docs.... but you are clearly making assumptions regarding allopathic programs you seem to know very little about. It is this stereotyping that continues to perpetuate the animosity between osteopaths and allopaths... an animosity that I am sick of. We are all well trained individuals that should be encouraging each other as colleagues. Most medical schools regardless of ideology are based on a first year curriculum rooted in the sciences. Most allopathic programs actually offer such "patient contact" (on actual human beings as you so eloquently put it) as pelvic and breast exams during the second year (as at MSU CHM)... which was good enough for me, though I guess it depends on your preference. (Don't know if I was exactly ready to be performing breast and pelvic exams in first year anyways)... I'd be wary of stereotyping allopaths as cold heartless souls who cannot touch their patients and stumble around patient rooms when on the wards during the clinical years... you might be pleasantly surprised that we also care about our patients... and do a pretty good job as well, I might add. Good luck to ya.

 

[seacatch]

MJB, I think you found a very politically correct way of asking the MD vs. DO thing. Good job... and you've inspired me to answer. In short, I took all the variables and looked at my options individually. I chose the school based on the location and the belief that the education would take me where I want to go. Truthfully, I would have chosen a local state MD school if I were accepted. The tuition and location would have made the difference.

There is really very little I could say that hasn't been said before on SDN. On the CON side, I don't love explaining what a D.O. is to people who are narrow minded. On the pro side, I like hearing from some MDs who actually respect the extra abilities that come with OMM. I am hopefull it will be time well spent. On the CON side, I anticipate taking two sets of exams (USMLE and COMPLEX). But, what's a little more work?

I was unfortunately MCAT challenged and it would have cost me another year to wait on another mcat and wouldn't have been worth it. I would not have chosen by MD vs. DO but more for each individual school. When I first learned about the DO path, I heard a lot about the holistic philosophy which makes perfect sense to me. As I learned more, I realized that it is more up to the individual and what they take away from it. There are many excellent MDs that also think of the whole person. There are also many DOs that don't seem to care at all about anything DO specific.

Keep an open mind and you will have lots of options. You might also want to check on the pathways available like PBL tracks. Each school is different, just spend the time learning about them and find the best fit.
Good luck.

 

[tastytreat]

Unless things have changed at the MSU allopathic program, clinical skills and "patient contact" are equally emphasized. I am aware of the great education provided by MSU COM as many of my friends have graduated from the program and are awesome docs.... but you are clearly making assumptions regarding allopathic programs you seem to know very little about. It is this stereotyping that continues to perpetuate the animosity between osteopaths and allopaths... an animosity that I am sick of. We are all well trained individuals that should be encouraging each other as colleagues. Most medical schools regardless of ideology are based on a first year curriculum rooted in the sciences. Most allopathic programs actually offer such "patient contact" (on actual human beings as you so eloquently put it) as pelvic and breast exams during the second year (as at MSU CHM)... which was good enough for me, though I guess it depends on your preference. (Don't know if I was exactly ready to be performing breast and pelvic exams in first year anyways)... I'd be wary of stereotyping allopaths as cold heartless souls who cannot touch their patients and stumble around patient rooms when on the wards during the clinical years... you might be pleasantly surprised that we also care about our patients... and do a pretty good job as well, I might add. Good luck to ya.

I appreciate the civil response. I, too, know a bunch of the CHM kids and am proud to call them friends. I'm still confused why you, or anybody else, would consider anything I've written stereotyping or negative for that matter.

Nowhere in any of my posts do I claim that allopaths are "cold heartless souls who cannot touch their patients and stumble around patient rooms when on the wards during the clinical years". I merely pointed out the differences in personality I see between the two schools. I'm not the first to say these things nor do I claim this holds true for all schools or individuals. I offered my honest opinion based on my observations after being here for almost a year. Perhaps my perception of reality is so clouded by biases I never knew I had that I can't make appropriate observations. But I really don't think that's the case.

I gave my opinion and I'm sticking with it. If I offend... sorry, that was not the intent.

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

I am a dentist by choice. How about you hot shot? Are you a DOctor by choice?

SSSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
(in a whisper) Your username is quietguy. You need to start acting like it or else we will all start calling you a liar. 😛

Maybe you are one of those quiet guys that don't express their feelings enough and one day explode(like a postal worker). You need to be careful. Dentists have the highest suicide rates.

Alot of the content on this thread is opinion. Guess what? That's what the OP asked for. Opinions do not require a bibliography and everyone has them, just like a**holes.

This WAS one of the better DO vs MD threads since it was asked in a different way. Thanks for ruining it.

 

[QuietGuy]

SSSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
(in a whisper) Your username is quietguy. You need to start acting like it or else we will all start calling you a liar. 😛

Maybe you are one of those quiet guys that don't express their feelings enough and one day explode(like a postal worker). You need to be careful. Dentists have the highest suicide rates.

Alot of the content on this thread is opinion. Guess what? That's what the OP asked for. Opinions do not require a bibliography and everyone has them, just like a**holes.

This WAS one of the better DO vs MD threads since it was asked in a different way. Thanks for ruining it.

Smart comments by a smart, overahieving, and of course, mellow DOctor. Had I known that all it takes is to show up for the MCAT to make it into Pikeville medical school, I too would have taken that route to reduce my chances of commiting suicide. I mean, come on, it takes alot of effort to score a 23 out of 45 on the MCAT.

Kentucky
Pikeville College School of Osteopathic Medicine (class entering 2003) 3.4 23

(http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/osteopathicstats.html)


Then again, I guess I lack the combination of intelligence and mellowness it takes to become a DOctor. 😉

http://dentistry.ucsf.edu/admissions/admiss_program1-stats.html

 

[dcratamt]

Smart comments by a smart, overahieving, and of course, mellow DOctor. Had I known that all it takes is to show up for the MCAT to make it into Pikeville medical school, I too would have taken that route to reduce my chances of commiting suicide. I mean, come on, it takes alot of effort to score a 23 out of 45 on the MCAT.

Kentucky
Pikeville College School of Osteopathic Medicine (class entering 2003) 3.4 23

(http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/osteopathicstats.html)


Then again, I guess I lack the combination of intelligence and mellowness it takes to become a DOctor. 😉

http://dentistry.ucsf.edu/admissions/admiss_program1-stats.html

Hey QuietGuy,
What is the matter with you? Why are you commenting on admissions to medical schools? Why are you posting on medical school threads? Why are you dissing medical students? Why are you dissing medical schools? No matter how low you think our GPA's are or how low you think our MCAT scores are on this forum, we all have one thing that sets us apart from you. We had the balls to apply to medical school, get accepted and take on the resbonsibility and hard work that comes along with it. Sounds like you didn't have the balls so go do your dentistry thing. Don't be angry. It is a good profession, and if u keep telling yourself that everyday then maybe someday you will believe it. Anyway why don't you start mingling with the other dentists on that forum and let the aspiring physicians here have some peace and Quiet.

 

[tkim]

People really need to learn *not* to attack another person's career choice. If certain careers don't suit you - fine. Leave it at that. The supposed superiority of one profession over another is tiring and counterproductive. Closing.