What gets people rejected at the various stages of the application process, and how to avoid this?

[Alakazam123]

I've read a few stories on here about people who had average stats, but still were able to get admitted into MD programs despite their poor GPA or otherwise. Some of them did a post-bac program, etc. So, I was wondering if I could get a list out of the usual things that cause people to get rejected at the following stages:

1. After the Primary Application Submission (I've heard some people get rejected right then and there)

2. After the Secondary Application Submission (Some of my friends did not get an interview)

3. After the interview

Furthermore, if one ends up on a wait-list, is there a way to increase one's chances of getting off the waitlist?

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[bluepeony]

I've read a few stories on here about people who had average stats, but still were able to get admitted into MD programs despite their poor GPA or otherwise. Some of them did a post-bac program, etc. So, I was wondering if I could get a list out of the usual things that cause people to get rejected at the following stages:

1. After the Primary Application Submission (I've heard some people get rejected right then and there)

2. After the Secondary Application Submission (Some of my friends did not get an interview)

3. After the interview

Furthermore, if one ends up on a wait-list, is there a way to increase one's chances of getting off the waitlist?

Did u already submit your app?
-if so, theres nothing u can really do at this point.

If you didn't submit yet:
-how will knowing this info help you??

*TLDR: you can be rejected at various stages of the process due to myriad of factors (stats, LORs, interview performance, lack of ECs, maturity, insight or commitment to the field). There's really no point in speculating as 60% of ppl get rejected every cycle and u can be rejected for any reason during the process.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Did u already submit your app?
-if so, theres nothing u can really do at this point.

If you didn't submit yet:
-how will knowing this info help you??

*TLDR: you can be rejected at various stages of the process due to myriad of factors (stats, LORs, interview performance, lack of ECs, maturity, insight or commitment to the field). There's really no point in speculating as 60% of ppl get rejected every cycle and u can be rejected for any reason during the process.

So many factors... academic reasons are #1.. until you get to interview.. Once you get to interview stage, its the people skills, how you talk... Some people are smart but dont know how to have a frank conversation with others..., they do not know anything else going on around the world other than, they were studying (often forced by parents).. this is very obvious on people who interview.

 

[Alakazam123]

Both of you guys are right. It's certainly a waste of time and sort of counter-productive to enter with a "what will get me rejected?" mindset, instead of a "let me try my best and see how it goes," mindset. It just gets stressful as each application cycle draws near and stories about various rejections come out. However, I suppose each instance should be taken on a case-by-case basis.

 

[LizzyM]

Unlikely to get secondary and/or be interviewed (some schools send secondaries to everyone)
Poor academic record
Poor MCAT, particularly if it continues to be poor after multiple attempts
Academic infractions involving dishonesty
Poorly written essays
Lack of clinical exposure of any kind

Unlikely to get an offer or get off of the waitlist
Very condescending or slick in the interview (snotty)
Very cold and robotic (poor ability to read social cues)
Very quiet, flat affect (depressed, unengaged)
Socially inappropriate with staffers
Unrealistic expectations about a career in medicine
Parents directing applicant's career trajectory (not self-motivated)

After all this, there are still more qualified applicants than there are seats so people have to apply broadly and hope for the best. There are many difficult and disappointing decisions that have to be made at the end of the cycle and the adcom feels it too as very good applicants have to be left on the waitlist (with no hope of slots opening up) or cut lose with a "decline" despite being a good, but not great, applicant.

 

[Goro]

I've read a few stories on here about people who had average stats, but still were able to get admitted into MD programs despite their poor GPA or otherwise. Some of them did a post-bac program, etc. So, I was wondering if I could get a list out of the usual things that cause people to get rejected at the following stages:

1. After the Primary Application Submission (I've heard some people get rejected right then and there)

2. After the Secondary Application Submission (Some of my friends did not get an interview)

3. After the interview

Furthermore, if one ends up on a wait-list, is there a way to increase one's chances of getting off the waitlist?

Read these:

• Interviews: the View From Behind the Curtain
• Goro's Guide to Interviews

Once you're on the wait list, at schools that welcome updates, getting a semester of great grades or a publication might help. Undying love letters to needy schools or those that like seeing candidates grovel might help as well.

 

[Peter Pan.]

If you don’t volunteer every single week and get straight A’s fall semester you could get rejected.

update them a lot.

😏

 

[deleted1011020]

Unlikely to get secondary and/or be interviewed (some schools send secondaries to everyone)
Poor academic record
Poor MCAT, particularly if it continues to be poor after multiple attempts
Academic infractions involving dishonesty
Poorly written essays
Lack of clinical exposure of any kind

Unlikely to get an offer or get off of the waitlist
Very condescending or slick in the interview (snotty)
Very cold and robotic (poor ability to read social cues)
Very quiet, flat affect (depressed, unengaged)
Socially inappropriate with staffers
Unrealistic expectations about a career in medicine
Parents directing applicant's career trajectory (not self-motivated)

After all this, there are still more qualified applicants than there are seats so people have to apply broadly and hope for the best. There are many difficult and disappointing decisions that have to be made at the end of the cycle and the adcom feels it too as very good applicants have to be left on the waitlist (with no hope of slots opening up) or cut lose with a "decline" despite being a good, but not great, applicant.

What exactly do you mean by unrealistic expectations for a career in medicine?

 

[Goro]

What exactly do you mean by unrealistic expectations for a career in medicine?

"Ortho or bust" mindset

Seeks specific specialty, yet has done nothing to learn about it.

Seeks career in academic medicine yet has no research experience

Seeks to have a narrowly focused practice on a specific patient demographic, yet ignores the fact that there are lots of different types of patients.

 

[DNAJB6]

I've read a few stories on here about people who had average stats, but still were able to get admitted into MD programs despite their poor GPA or otherwise. Some of them did a post-bac program, etc. So, I was wondering if I could get a list out of the usual things that cause people to get rejected at the following stages:

1. After the Primary Application Submission (I've heard some people get rejected right then and there)

Low stats w/o reinvention or significant upward trend; lack of extracurriculars; lack of maturity and insight in writing; institutional actions; criminal records; not complying with required prerequisites (some schools e.g. Columbia require to complete before application - only a small minority of schools do this); otherwise not meeting eligibility criteria

2. After the Secondary Application Submission (Some of my friends did not get an interview)

See #1.

3. After the interview

Not presenting well in the interview; not having researched the school or not being a good fit; simply not enough spaces - not everyone with an interview invite can be accepted

Furthermore, if one ends up on a wait-list, is there a way to increase one's chances of getting off the wait list?

I'm sure this is school specific.

 

[notsobabydoc]

"Ortho or bust" mindset

Seeks specific specialty, yet has done nothing to learn about it.

Seeks career in academic medicine yet has no research experience

Seeks to have a narrowly focused practice on a specific patient demographic, yet ignores the fact that there are lots of different types of patients.

academic medicine is not all about research.... you can be an educator as well.

 

[Goro]

academic medicine is not all about research.... you can be an educator as well.

The mindset of the people I was referring to was those who naively think that they can see patients and run a wet lab like it's as easy as running a hot dog stand.

 

[notsobabydoc]

The mindset of the people I was referring to was those who naively think that they can see patients and run a wet lab like it's as easy as running a hot dog stand.

gotcha. Wet labs + clinical work.. not very realistic.

 

[deleted1011020]

gotcha. Wet labs + clinical work.. not very realistic.

Is this really not possible? I’ve read about physicians who concurrently have labs and see patients...?

 

[Goro]

Is this really not possible? I’ve read about physicians who concurrently have labs and see patients...?

I'm not saying it can't be done, it can't. What I'm saying is the people who are rejected have this extremely naive view of what it takes to do both.

Again, they have done very little investigation as to what this entails.

 

[Goro]

Most people who fail at running a hot dog stand simply can’t cut the mustard.

The last girl who told me that had very nice buns.

 

[Blueprint Med School]

Just some ways.

After the primary:

* Applying to public schools you don't have a connection to. E.g. UWash said thanks but no thanks and I was from Jersey.
* Applying way above and below your competitiveness. Yes even the latter, some schools don't want you to use them as a stepping stone.

After the secondary:

* Bad grammar or controversy in answers.
* Dumb mistakes, forgetting to change the name of the school in a new secondary.

After the interview:

* Inappropriate follow up. At my Dartmouth residency interview, the program director told a story of a lady who sent a photo of her riding a horse in a bikini as part of her thank you letter. No bueno.
* Being a jerk on interview day. Self-explanatory.

Hope this helps.

David D, MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

 

[LizzyM]

What exactly do you mean by unrealistic expectations for a career in medicine?

That patients have bad health habits because they don't know the harm and all that it takes is to inform them and they'll stop.

That every patient with access to care will get well and be grateful.

That you will be the best doctor for people with a specific condition because you've been treated for that condition.

 

[Goro]

That is an image I can relish

May-o I have some time to think of some more puns?

 

[Cornfed101]

Your entire application is reviewed again after your interview. I got waitlisted by a school and they said my application was great, my interview was great, it was just my GPA that was a little low... My point is that just because your app is good enough to get an interview does not mean that the committee is blind to it after the interview.

 

[notsobabydoc]

Your entire application is reviewed again after your interview. I got waitlisted by a school and they said my application was great, my interview was great, it was just my GPA that was a little low... My point is that just because your app is good enough to get an interview does not mean that the committee is blind to it after the interview.

How low is your gpa relative to theirs?

 

[Cornfed101]

How low is your gpa relative to theirs?

My cGPA is below the 10th percentile for every school, my sGPA is about the 25th percentile. My MCAT is above the 90th percentile.

 

[907914]

The last girl who told me that had very nice buns.

That is an image I can relish

These kinds of misogynistic comments really don’t sit well anymore. C’mon guys...it is 2019...ketchup with the rest of us.

Edit: oof I had to stretch to fit that pun in there..that wasn’t even my braut-worst pun.

 

[notsobabydoc]

My cGPA is below the 10th percentile for every school, my sGPA is about the 25th percentile. My MCAT is above the 90th percentile.

Tbh, I think they referred to your sGPA, not your cGPA. I think hitting the median on sGPA is kind of important. But also because your MCAt is above their 90, so they see you as someone unlikely to matriculate.

 

[deleted972488]

Tbh, I think they referred to your sGPA, not your cGPA. I think hitting the median on sGPA is kind of important.

50% of accepted applicants are below the median...

 

[Cornfed101]

Tbh, I think they referred to your sGPA, not your cGPA. I think hitting the median on sGPA is kind of important. But also because your MCAt is above their 90, so they see you as someone unlikely to matriculate.

haha nope. I had like a 10 min phone call with the admissions director. It was my cGPA. He said he didn’t agree with their decision, but he doesn’t get a vote.

 

[notsobabydoc]

50% of accepted applicants are below the median...

Lol true. Who knows. Just need to get lucky sometimes rifht?

 

[notsobabydoc]

haha nope. I had like a 10 min phone call with the admissions director. It was my cGPA. He said he didn’t agree with their decision, but he doesn’t get a vote.

You will do fine! Good luck!

 

[Goro]

I give you my highest condiments so far. Well Done. I certainly need to Ketchup in the conversation. Let me be Frank-and-Further this discussion by getting to the meat of the subject. Students are in a pickle just by sheer numbers. Applications are subject to a real grilling, raked over the coals, and their chances can be cooked before they even get to an interview. If they are lucky, get an II, and impress an adcom, the school might just say, "we have a Wiener"

Stick a fork in me....I'm done!

 

[LizzyM]

50% of accepted applicants are below the median...

Not necessarily. 50% could be smack dab at the median or close to it with 20% below the median and 30% above. At a median does not mean that there is normal distribution. You could have 504, 514, 515, 515, 515, 515, 515, 516, 520, 521. The median is 515.4 giving the impression that there is little skew when, in fact, there is a strong central tendency with long tails.

 

[DNAJB6]

Stick a fork in me....I'm done!

Don't be a wiener. 😛 🙂

 

[82Scout]

imo the process has a lot of randomness too it, and if you could pick between being skilled and lucky.... I would pick lucky every time.

 

[aldol16]

After Primary: Not having the stats to get through the stats screen that some schools do.
After Secondary: Not having a compelling enough story in your AMCAS/secondary essays.
After Interview: Didn't stand out from the rest of the crowd.