What helps you MATCH?

[starsinnight]

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Hi everyone,

This is obviously a hot topic in the PhD world of Psychology. I haven't even started my program yet but would like to know from those of you that were recently matched, didn't get matched on the first round, or those going to apply this year.... what is it they look for in a match? Of course it is going to vary, similar in the way that PhD programs pick their students, there isn't an exact formula, persay.

However, there must be things that help (in the ways GRE, research, and clinical experience are required or beneficial to apply for a program in the first place). Anyone have any books to recommend on this process?

Or can anyone give a good overview of the process? All I've been able to gather from the forums is that they look at hours of clinical experience (and the populations served), research and publications, research match, and some essays you write as part of the application. There must be more to it, right?

Please help! I want to start with the best foot in the door, if possible. And I already know my program has had some difficulty matching, especially due to the limited resources in the area it is located. HELP! 🙂

 

[reluctantPhd01]

Could you elaborate on this one:
You are physically attractive/in-shape

 

[AcronymAllergy]

As you've said, the process is fairly esoteric as a whole; I still don't fully know what actually contributed to my securing an internship spot this past match (other than a hearty amount of luck, I'm sure). However, based on feedback I received during my interviews, I can tell you what aspects of my application in particular were brought up as positives. Keep in mind that I have absolutely zero insight into the decision process itself, so this is all just speculation on my part:

1) Clinical experience: Beyond the simple number of hours and reports written (which, given my year in the program, were somewhat inflated), the diversity of settings and clients I've worked in/with seemed to be a major selling point. Thus, I'd say once you surpass any minimum number of contact hours required to apply, it's likely more about quality than quantity. Using your experiences to then be able to string together a coherent "clinical narrative" also seems to be important.

2) Letters of recommendation: While not deal-breakers/makers, who you know and who you were trained by do seem to be useful to an extent. I'm almost certain that my advisor's name, and the relationship my program has with various sites, contributed to many of the interview offers I received. Beyond that, regardless of the possible notoriety of your supervisor(s), having them write you strong letters of rec that can point out specific intances of exceptional clinical/research competence seems to be important. One of my cohort mates actually had an interviewer quote specific passages of a letter of rec to show how impressed he was.

3) Essays and interview presence: I lump these together because I feel like sites gather a large amount of information from these two "personal" aspects of your app. The way you present yourself in your essays (e.g., the areas on which you choose to focus, your narrative "voice," etc.) and on your interview visits seem to incapsulate many of the intangibles that sites use to separate equally-qualified applicants. Remember, these people have to put up with you for a year, so they probably want someone they're going to enjoy having around. Additionally, I would imagine they're gauging how able you are to appear competent and earnest in person rather than just on paper.

4) Dissertation progress: Proposed is great, and really helps you in indicating to the site that you'll be able to remain strongly focused on your internship experience while there. Defended is even better. I was neither at the time of my interviews, but was able to discuss my topic in great detail when asked.

I only interviewed at one well-known "research-heavy" site, so I'm not sure what aspects these types of programs might be looking for (other than the obvious number/quality of pubs and ability to indicate a relatively coherent and well-defined research area).

 

[mshbe]

An interesting article on the topic was just published a few months ago. It's aimed more at training directors, but I think it can be very useful for students preparing to apply:

Power et al. (2011). Determining readiness for predoctoral internship training: The process of developing a screening measure. Journal of Clinical Psychology, 67(1), 6-16.

 

[irish80122]

Could you elaborate on this one:
You are physically attractive/in-shape

lol, I am sure attractiveness plays a role, and overweight people are sometimes viewed as lazy. Further, I feel like it may be harder to do health psych and be overweight. That said, I am overweight, not overly attractive, and matched. 🙂

 

[AcronymAllergy]

lol, I am sure attractiveness plays a role, and overweight people are sometimes viewed as lazy. Further, I feel like it may be harder to do health psych and be overweight. That said, I am overweight, not overly attractive, and matched. 🙂

There's also some research suggesting that we might better remember and/or attend to individuals we find attractive. Plus, there's always the chance that an interviewer might (inadvertantly or not) spend a little extra time with an attractive applicant, which could improve memory and allow the interviewee to discuss his/her credentials in a bit more depth.

Then again, I may have just thought this whole thing through entirely too much.

 

[PrisonPsych]

There's plenty of evidence showing the strength of both an attractiveness bias and a weight bias in employment selection, particularly when dealing with a set of candidates who are otherwise essentially equally. This is actually what I'm doing my thesis on (weight bias in graduate school admissions).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

There's plenty of evidence showing the strength of both an attractiveness bias and a weight bias in employment selection, particularly when dealing with a set of candidates who are otherwise essentially equally. This is actually what I'm doing my thesis on (weight bias in graduate school admissions).

I believe I remember reading that this bias also applied to ratings of competency (i.e., more attractive people were rated as being more competent), although there also might have been some sort of interaction and/or point of diminishing returns (i.e., attractiveness correlated with competency ratings up to a certain level after which the relationship reversed, and/or the correlation direction differed depending on the gender of the attractive person/rater)...?

It's all starting to blurring together.

 

[erg923]

Could you elaborate on this one:
You are physically attractive/in-shape

"I believe in taking care of myself and a balanced diet and rigorous exercise routine. In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an ice pack while doing stomach crunches. I can do 1000 now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial mask which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion. "

-Patrick Bateman

 

[erg923]

My alternate response to that question was: Sure. Where do I send my picture?

In all seriousness, a couple things that I would recommend that I noticed on the internship interview trail. These were just things that bugged me personally...

1. For goodness sakes guys, learn how to shave properly! A red, irritated neck full of ingrowns is not attractive. This is easily preventable by using appropriate products and shaving technique, and caring properly for your skin.

2. "Wet heads" look best on Don Draper and James Dean. This is not an appropriate fashion trend today (unless you are Matthew Mcconaughey). This goes for ladies too.

3. I can not tell you how many guys wore shoes that did not really match their suit. No black and brown!

4. I would just recommend not smoking period during the interview day. It makes you smell and can be offensive to people who are interviewing you.

5. I do not like the look of a pleated front on men's pants. But maybe this is just me.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Your preparation starts the first day of graduate school. I don't write this to freak you out, but instead to set the tone for how you should approach graduate training. Jon Snow mentioned a number of key areas that need to be addressed, though I want to highlight a couple of things that many students don't really "get" and no one actually explains to you.

Networking matters. I don't care if you are the world's biggest introvert, you need to get to know your colleagues, faculty, and professionals in the field. I've found that publishing and presenting offers you the best opportunity to interact/talk with professionals from around the country/abroad. I can't tell you how many people I've met at conferences that have popped back up in my professional career.

Always ask about conference funding. Many programs offer funding to travel to conferences (if you had something accepted), and it usually doesn't take much to secure. You can also share the cost with other people in your cohort/friends in other programs. You will be surprised how creative you can be when stretching conference $'s and leveraging "volunteer" perks. Most conferences will waive conference fees and other things for students who volunteer to help at the conference. You typically need to have a paper/presentation/poster accepted to be elligible, but a few hours of work can save you $100+ in fees.

I always tell people to join hotel & casino reward programs, and learn how to use Priceline. Popular conference cities have a ton of hotel options. Between conferences, internship interviews, and fellowship interviews, I've saved thousands* on hotel rooms because I stayed at casinos at least half a dozen times. It can often be worth it to stay a bit farther away and rent a car, instead of paying $150-$200/night to stay at the conference hotel. I was just in Boston, and the "conference rate" was almost $200/nt after taxes! I pricelined a 4* boutique hotel for $120/nt.

*I'm a gambler, so I get my rooms comp'd, but people who don't gamble a cent can still get "player"/"reward member" rates at casinos, which are often 50%+ less than the posted rack rate.

Presentation matters. Take some time and pride in how you dress for your internship interviews. You don't need to spend a lot of money (or sometimes any money), but little things like having your shoes polished can really make a difference. Most everyone is on a "student budget", so plan ahead and see if you can get an outfit for your bday or find a good sale. The shaving thing erg923 mentioned is a huge pet peeve of mine. I'm sure many people don't notice these things, but it is a good rule to get the little things right.

 

[cara susanna]

I must defend wet-heads because my hair takes forever to dry, and blow-drying makes it extremely bushy. ... Unless that term has another meaning that I don't know.

 

[erg923]

I must defend wet-heads because my hair takes forever to dry, and blow-drying makes it extremely bushy. ... Unless that term has another meaning that I don't know.

Otay!

 

[aventurine]

A couple of other things, based on my experience on the site side:

* Your personal statement should NOT be a regurgitation of your CV. This can and will be held against you by some internship directors. Plus, it doesn't allow you to distinguish yourself from any other applicant with a great CV. The sites really do want to know something about who you are.

* One of the most important things your interviewers are going to try to assess is whether or not they would appreciate the opportunity to supervise you. Yes, you have to impress them, but you also have to leave them with the sense that a) you aren't personality disordered and b) they want to work with you and help guide you in your professional development. There are applicants who are astounding on paper (sometimes more impressive than anyone on staff!) whose rankings are dragged down because of how they present in the interview (narcissistic, know-it-all, flat, bland, devoid of personality, unreceptive to feedback).

 

[KillerDiller]

2. "Wet heads" look best on Don Draper and James Dean. This is not an appropriate fashion trend today (unless you are Matthew Mcconaughey). This goes for ladies too.

Yes. I think it's possible that the best advice for male interviewees is to act as little like Matthew Mcconaughey as possible. 🙂

...Females too, for that matter.

 

[DocRacz]

What, you mean this wouldn't get me matched? 🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuYD2cwMbpw

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

* Your personal statement should NOT be a regurgitation of your CV.

This is a very common misstep by people. Your cover letter and essays are really the only way the reviewer can get any feel for the applicant as a person prior to the interview stage. Have a trusted faculty member/mentor/colleague read your PS, and ask them if your personality is reflected in the letter. It may take a few drafts to work out the clumsiness of trying to skim off CV phrasing and avoid hokey thoughts, but reviewers will appreciate a well crafted letter and most likely skim the generic ones. It felt like a risk, but I spoke mostly about my life outside of my clinical training. I had multiple DCTs comment on my PS and a few other interviewers, as most sites want to get a feel for the person and not just the person's CV.

 

[erg923]

Yes. I think it's possible that the best advice for male interviewees is to act as little like Matthew Mcconaughey as possible. 🙂

...Females too, for that matter.

Family Guy did a great bit on how worthless he is an an actor...

 

[psychgeek]

I’ve now had the pleasure (or displeasure) of sitting on the internship selection committee at two different internships sites. Both worked in radically different ways. There probably aren’t a lot of generalizable tips for matching, but I can give you some really easy ways to avoid matching that seem universal.

1) Report an insane amount of experience – I remember one application claimed 500+ complete testing batteries. That just makes you look dishonest.

2) Make your supervisors/professors/fellow students angry – Psychology is a very small world, and we talk about our experiences with students. If I see that you trained at site X and I know my post-doc also trained at site X, I will ask her about you. It is in your best interest to make sure everyone has good things to say.

3) Egregiously violate social norms – One of the legendary psychology stories in my neck of the woods involves the time an internship interviewee sent a professor a thank-you with erotic pictures attached … intentionally. Someone also once arrived at my site’s interview date with their parents. Awkward.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

3) Egregiously violate social norms – One of the legendary psychology stories in my neck of the woods involves the time an internship interviewee sent a professor a thank-you with erotic pictures attached … intentionally. Someone also once arrived at my site’s interview date with their parents. Awkward.

You win. Best interview stories.

 

[psychgeek]

You win. Best interview stories.

I wish I could claim direct involvement with the thank-you letter story. That is the undeniable heavy-weight champ.

 

[erg923]

Ok, well since like 70 percent of this profession is now women...I think I would like to get a "thank you" note... Do you think my wife would mind?

 

[starsinnight]

Thank you so much everyone, this information is priceless! Please keep going....

👍

What about any regrets or anything you wish you had started from the beginning of your program?

 

[Metta]

An interesting article on the topic was just published a few months ago. It's aimed more at training directors, but I think it can be very useful for students preparing to apply:

Power et al. (2011). Determining readiness for predoctoral internship training: The process of developing a screening measure. Journal of Clinical Psychology, 67(1), 6-16.

Another excellent, and very relevant, article is:

Ginkel, R. W., Davis, S. E., & Michael, P. G. (2010). An examination of inclusion and exclusion criteria in the predoctoral internship selection process. Training and Education in Professional Psychology, 4(4), 213-218.

The authors surveyed training directors at APPIC internship sites, asking them to rate the importance of 38 potential inclusion criteria in their selection process and to indicate which criteria might be used to exclude a candidate from consideration. You really couldn't ask for a simpler or more straightforward presentation of the information you're after. 🙂

 

[PsyDWannabe]

lol, I am sure attractiveness plays a role, and overweight people are sometimes viewed as lazy. Further, I feel like it may be harder to do health psych and be overweight. That said, I am overweight, not overly attractive, and matched. 🙂

HAHA, NEVER underestimate the "uniqueness bias". It is, after all, my greatest ally 😉.

 

[graduatingsoon]

Hey everyone:

I matched at my top choice APA internship. Here is what made me so successful in the match process:

1) Well written essays: I edited them multiple times and got feedback from supervisors and professors. My personal statement was a good balance between being personal but also appropriate and professional. I think it def. stood out in a good way.

2) Cover letters were very direct and told them exactly why I wanted to be there and directly connected my past experiences with what they offer. Don't be afraid of being confident and letting the site know that you are a perfect match!

3) My CV was solid and emphasized the variety and depth of my clinical experiences: I took credit for everything that I did at practicum sites and made my self stand out by being specific (e.g. Wrote X amount of integrated reports for X population, Consulted with a multidisciplinary treatment team etc.)

4) Interviews: I prepared for the types of questions they may ask and practiced once with a mock interview. During the interview, I asked unique thoughtful questions, appeared confident and personable.

I also matched at a site where I had Zero connections and where students in my program have not gone before so don't despair if you don't have the connections (I totally agree that they are helpful, but if you know how to sell yourself that is key).

Knowing how to market/present yourself is at least as important as clinical skills so make sure you have a good story (of course a true one) about what made you pick this field, what you are passionate about, and why you would like to train at X place. I agree that this process is much easier for extroverts or people who are already savvy. I am not extroverted but would say that I have pretty good marketing skills because i've generally been able to secure my top externships/practicums throughout graduate school. If you are not good at selling yourself you can start by reading a book on this or going to lots of networking events.

 

[starsinnight]

Thanks! Great information.

 

[starsinnight]

Any more comments on this?

I know that this year has been another rough match year, and frankly my school has suffered with a 100% match rate last year in phase 1 and 2 to a nearly non-existant match this year.

So I would like to get prepared.

 

[erg923]

Any more comments on this?

I know that this year has been another rough match year, and frankly my school has suffered with a 100% match rate last year in phase 1 and 2 to a nearly non-existant match this year.

So I would like to get prepared.

I'm not sure if this helps you match, but helps with getting an interview. This is based on being on the other side this year. Site is an academic VA.

1. Clinical experience that gives you all the basics, but is not redundant with what the site is going to teach you or focus on for that year.

2. A program that does NOT admit 50% of those that apply to it or have cohorts of like 70 people. Some staff actually took the time too look program curriculum and admission stats. Some programs were eliminated based on these factors.

3. Given more than a just "a few" WAISs and MMPI and the like. Can't tell you how many people we saw who had given literally one WAIS there entire grad school carreer. Serioulsy, WTF?

4. LORs that even hint that there could be an issue can be a big problem. Don't particularly agree with this myself, but any statement that is "neutral" or otherwise "off" in some way was questioned as possibly being "code" for something. Some staff seemed to jumped all over this. Those that didnt seemed to think the others were nuts for being so paranoid about it.

 

[niknok]

Thank you so much everyone, this information is priceless! Please keep going....

👍

Practice interviewing. Both group and individual interviews. For me this helps with the nerves and I found myself getting better and better every after practice. Plus that helps you hash out your answers.

Humor, appropriately so is good. This tells the interviewer that you are not always serious. I would not want to be around people who have no sense of humor.

I didn't think I would match at my first choice bec I was so nervous and kinda blanked out during the vignette so I made a risky decision to use an example of a client I had similar to the vignette. I made this decision bec I was hoping they would see that I have had experience in such situations. And I matched at that place! So be quick and flexible because you will never know what could happen.

I actually arrived a day early to the places I traveled to and get to check out the area. This can be a good talking point. I don't get to travel in different places and all the places I went to were new to me so I told them about that. It shows enthusiasm to learn about their program and their city. Although I know this might not be easy when all interview offers happens around the same time. I lucked out!

Luck! I think I used all charms and prayers I could come up with. At least to give me confidence. I never thought how superstitious I am until this whole process.

 

[Chase3557]

Very helpful stuff everyone! I'm about to start my program and want to try to get an early start on preparing for this.

 

[busybusybusy]

1. Clinical experience that gives you all the basics, but is not redundant with what the site is going to teach you or focus on for that year.

I always hear this and it makes sense, why try to train you in something you know I guess. But on the other hand some sites wont take you unless you have experience in what they'll be training you in. Is it really just a fine line between just enough and too much and how do you know?

 

[NotTheHoff]

I always hear this and it makes sense, why try to train you in something you know I guess. But on the other hand some sites wont take you unless you have experience in what they'll be training you in. Is it really just a fine line between just enough and too much and how do you know?

I really liked the phrase used by a training director I met when discussing applicant experience: "relevant but not redundant." You want to be able to demonstrate that their site offers you new training that will help you grow as a psychologist but, at the same time, that you have a foundation that will allow you to succeed. This is initially more challenging than it appears since the stakes are so high we can be hesitant to reveal anything that suggests we're less than perfect. Don't worry: sites know you don't have it all figured out (do we ever?). In fact, demonstrating your awareness of where you need to develop professionally and connecting this to the training opportunities at a given site can only make you appear stronger; it shows you are willing to learn, are self-aware, and have done your homework on their particular site.

Some other advice:
-Take your time in interviews. It's tempting to say the first thing that comes to mind in the heat of the moment, but if a question requires some deep thought, in most cases it's ok to tell interviewers you're thinking about the question and then respond once you've gotten your thoughts together. Your response will be stronger, and you will have demonstrated you are critically considering their question.

-Be proactive. I honestly think my cohort this year did as strongly as we did because we planned ahead and made things happen. We talked with professors and the program about organizing mock interviews, essay reviews, etc. early on (late summer) before schedules got filled. Newer professors in the program were particularly eager to help. One thing that particularly helped was having professors who didn't know a given student blind review CVs and essays. This helped us get a better idea of how we presented on paper and what impressions we were giving to a potential reviewer.

 

[KillerDiller]

I always hear this and it makes sense, why try to train you in something you know I guess. But on the other hand some sites wont take you unless you have experience in what they'll be training you in. Is it really just a fine line between just enough and too much and how do you know?

I haven't heard the same about any other type of site, but I do know that if you want to intern at a university counseling center you pretty much need prior experience in a UCC. A few sites may take you without this experience, but many list right on their profile in the APPIC directory that they require a year of UCC experience.

 

[psybee]

I always hear this and it makes sense, why try to train you in something you know I guess. But on the other hand some sites wont take you unless you have experience in what they'll be training you in. Is it really just a fine line between just enough and too much and how do you know?

this always makes me anxious since i have a very medical CV--the pt pop w/in is diverse (spmi, outpt, sub ab, trauma, all ages, indiv and group work, rehab psych) and i want to work in health psych

 

[AcronymAllergy]

this always makes me anxious since i have a very medical CV--the pt pop w/in is diverse (spmi, outpt, sub ab, trauma, all ages, indiv and group work, rehab psych) and i want to work in health psych

If you still have some time until you apply, you could definitely consider branching out a bit if possible, and putting in some time at a community mental health, forensic, or developmental/intellectual disabilities residential facility. That, or (given that nearly all internships are going to have non-health rotations) you could use your high health focus to then showcase how you'd really enjoy the opportunity afforded by the site to work in a few non-health settings.

 

[starsinnight]

-Be proactive. I honestly think my cohort this year did as strongly as we did because we planned ahead and made things happen. We talked with professors and the program about organizing mock interviews, essay reviews, etc. early on (late summer) before schedules got filled. Newer professors in the program were particularly eager to help. One thing that particularly helped was having professors who didn't know a given student blind review CVs and essays. This helped us get a better idea of how we presented on paper and what impressions we were giving to a potential reviewer.

Thanks! Excellent advice here... this is stuff I can start thinking about now and ways to prepare for. Also, do you guys really recommend practicum sites in a VA if planning on an internship in a VA/ Counseling Center for a Counseling Center opposed to say a very well rounded private practice with excellent experience? *sigh How does one choose these things in advance if you don't yet know what will be the best internship for you 3 years from now?

It sounds like a consensus that interviewing skills are probably one of the most important aspects of helping a match.

 

[Duck Duck Goose]

Thanks! Excellent advice here... this is stuff I can start thinking about now and ways to prepare for. Also, do you guys really recommend practicum sites in a VA if planning on an internship in a VA/ Counseling Center for a Counseling Center opposed to say a very well rounded private practice with excellent experience? *sigh How does one choose these things in advance if you don't yet know what will be the best internship for you 3 years from now?

It sounds like a consensus that interviewing skills are probably one of the most important aspects of helping a match.

If you can get to the interviewing stage... like 10% of people who register for the Match withdraw or don't submit ranks, often because they didn't get any interview offers. That doesn't even include people who (intelligently) waited to register for the Match until they got an interview offer and then didn't wind up getting any. I think the interview selection process is pretty busted at this point.

 

[busybusybusy]

That doesn't even include people who (intelligently) waited to register for the Match until they got an interview offer and then didn't wind up getting any.

You can do this!?! What are the positives/negatives to doing this?

 

[ClinicalABA]

Networking matters. I don't care if you are the world's biggest introvert, you need to get to know your colleagues, faculty, and professionals in the field. I've found that publishing and presenting offers you the best opportunity to interact/talk with professionals from around the country/abroad. I can't tell you how many people I've met at conferences that have popped back up in my professional career.

This!!! In your internship interviews, you want the first thing out of the interviewers mouth to be "It's nice to see you again." "It's nice to finally meet you in person" is a close second.

 

[Duck Duck Goose]

You can do this!?! What are the positives/negatives to doing this?

Clarification: you still pay to submit applications on the AAPI, you just don't pay the $130 (or so) match registration fee to NMS until after you get interviews.

Positives: you don't spend money for nothing on NMS and if you're waiting mostly on programs that you will hear from by December 15th, you can still register like any early registerees do (online, with credit card, easily).

Negatives: you may get a reminder email from the director of your program if you haven't registered by December 1st and you have to register before the end of December (deadline is clearly posted/communicated in a bunch of places).

I think it shows the ignorance of students about the imbalance or interview selection process that so many register, seemingly without thinking, so early.

 

[paramour]

Alrighty then, guys & gals, I am starting to grow irritated here and would like some words of advice because I suspect that my department is setting me up to screw me over yet again this year. Yippee!

I intended to apply for internship next year... had all the stars, planets, moons, and all that jazz aligned with one another.

I absolutely *need* another external practicum experience. I have ONE outside of our training clinic. I was one of the lucky students who did not get one last year. (Go me! 🙄) They have declined my multiple requests to "volunteer" in external practica. They declined my request to apply through an unpaid practicum fair in the local area last year.

There are certain internship positions that I had hoped/intended to apply for that I currently cannot apply for due to my abysmal lack of assessment hours. Erg previously mentioned the bare minimum of hours with which some students try to apply and that pretty much reflects my assessment experience. Some of the sites I am interested in require 100-150 hours minimum. These sites are going to be out for me unless I manage to score a practicum site where I can quickly gain some much needed experience. (And face it, this is an overall area of weakness for me anyway!)

We are currently in the process of "ranking" our assistantship (and clinical practicum) preferences for next year. To say that our options our limited is an understatement. I have ONE option that will provide me with what I need/want. And everyone and their mother wants this position. Other assessment sites are not "in my track," but there are insufficient people to cover them because we have more students leaving after this year--so they're sort of desperate and they're going to need some students from my track to cover them in the end. These sites would at least give me the opportunity to obtain some much needed assessment hours, even if it's not the optimal solution with the desired population. I can still work with it.

I ranked all of these as options after discussion with my faculty advisor. Now I am being asked why I ranked the other track's assessment sites and why I do not consider "therapy" practicum sites with a population for which I have absolutely no interest (I have plenty of therapy hours to boot!).

At this point, I suspect that I am going to be pushed to one of these non-desirable sites whether I want it or not (no one wants them; no one ranks them)--or I will be given a non-practicum site, which I'm still not sure benefits me as I have multiple years of both research and teaching experience. Hell, more than my clinical experience at this juncture.

Dilemma:
1. Do I concede and accept the position regardless of what it may be and what training opportunity it does or does not provide?

2. Do I decline the position and attempt (yet again) to locate an external practicum position that will provide me with assessment experience that is oh, so sorely needed to fulfill my training needs? [I am hoping that they will consider it as I have a contact this time around who has agreed to help me and that they respect... but I don't want to drag this individual into a mess if it's not worth it.] Or do I risk being perceived as that problem child yet again?

I do not want to apply for internship feeling unprepared. Yet I believe that I am going to end up applying to "whoever will take me" because I am not adequately trained in certain domains at this point. Unless I stick around another year. And even that's no guarantee that anything will change with the way things work. Am I perceiving things incorrectly here? Am I being overly frustrated for no reason? (And I admit this may be a possibility . . . )

Thoughts? Suggestions?

If anything, at least I got to vent! No one else around here wants to hear it. [I had multiple students trying to talk me out of applying to the one site I do want . . . because they want it as well. I love this place! 😍]

 

[Pragma]

Dilemma:
1. Do I concede and accept the position regardless of what it may be and what training opportunity it does or does not provide?

2. Do I decline the position and attempt (yet again) to locate an external practicum position that will provide me with assessment experience that is oh, so sorely needed to fulfill my training needs? [I am hoping that they will consider it as I have a contact this time around who has agreed to help me and that they respect... but I don't want to drag this individual into a mess if it's not worth it.] Or do I risk being perceived as that problem child yet again?

When did competition ever hurt anybody? I don't understand why programs want to limit how many people apply for a certain site (externship or internship). You are being evaluated as an individual for these positions.

1. I would apply for all of the positions that you personally are interested and rank them based on how you feel. It sounds like you need experience either way, so you might have to take what is available if you don't get your top picks.
2. Why not? Who cares if you look for an external practicum? Now if there is a earlier deadline involved for the internal ones, I can see it being an issue. You just need to be decisive about it. If the timing works for you to apply elsewhere, why not try to secure it and get the experience you want? If the timing DOESN'T work, then you have to decide how much risk you are willing to put up with.

I can't fathom having that kind of pressure. I was allowed to apply to any externship I saw fit and was supported with these decisions. If they require an internal practicum for part of the training, you know that up front. Being manipulated into a particular experience just sounds terrible.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This!!! In your internship interviews, you want the first thing out of the interviewers mouth to be "It's nice to see you again." "It's nice to finally meet you in person" is a close second.

Or the always popular..."I was hoping we'd get a chance to catch up." I hammer this with friends of mine all of the time because networking (and piles of cash) is what "makes the world go 'round". Since most of us don't have piles of cash, networking is our next best option. If you are one of the lucky few that come from prolific labs and/or already made a name for yourself...good on ya, but you still need to network. 😀

I absolutely *need* another external practicum experience. I have ONE outside of our training clinic. I was one of the lucky students who did not get one last year. (Go me! 🙄) They have declined my multiple requests to "volunteer" in external practica. They declined my request to apply through an unpaid practicum fair in the local area last year.

This is YOUR education, and if YOU don't watch out for yourself, it is hard to expects others to do so on your behalf. You absolutely need to be proactive and talk with your DCT (or whomever makes these decisions). I got 'bumped' my first year of practica...to an external site that was NOT one I wanted. It was a nightmare at the time, but I was eventually told that I'd get first choice my next year. When the next year came around, I was already in the ear of the DCT via e-mail and then following up with an appointment to make sure I got my #1 choice (which was a very competitive site). I was hesitant because she was a tough but fair DCT, but it all worked out in the end. The silver-lining of it all was that my first site had a big learning curve, but it ultimately gave me a good experience with a very difficult population. It also helped solidify my hunch that working with Peds was not for me. 😀

If you have any doubts about how to go about approaching your DCT or this issue in general, you should probably talk to your mentor and/or another faculty member you trust. I went to mine (and an outside faculty member), and it made me feel more comfortable and confident that I was taking the correct approach.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

When did competition ever hurt anybody? I don't understand why programs want to limit how many people apply for a certain site (externship or internship). You are being evaluated as an individual for these positions.

1. I would apply for all of the positions that you personally are interested and rank them based on how you feel. It sounds like you need experience either way, so you might have to take what is available if you don't get your top picks.
2. Why not? Who cares if you look for an external practicum? Now if there is a earlier deadline involved for the internal ones, I can see it being an issue. You just need to be decisive about it. If the timing works for you to apply elsewhere, why not try to secure it and get the experience you want? If the timing DOESN'T work, then you have to decide how much risk you are willing to put up with.

I can't fathom having that kind of pressure. I was allowed to apply to any externship I saw fit and was supported with these decisions. If they require an internal practicum for part of the training, you know that up front. Being manipulated into a particular experience just sounds terrible.

I agree on all counts. It honestly doesn't sound like your program has your best interests at heart, so it falls to you to defend them (which baffles me; heck, we don't even have formal externship applications at my program, we just tell our advisor where we want to work, email the site supervisor to be sure they have room and funding, and it's done).

As both Pragma and T4C have mentioned, serve as your own advocate. Sit down with your faculty mentor and/or DCT, lay out your concerns and the possible solutions, and go from there. Do your best not to let them brush you off, and definitely rank the sites based on YOUR preference; don't let the program strong-arm you into ending up somewhere that would provide limited, if any, benefit.

It's often true that being the "squeaky wheel" really can be beneficial (and is sometimes necessary to get your point across). Open communications with that contact of yours now if you haven't already done so. Test the waters to see how viable it would be to have a position at that site, which may make the accept/decline decision a bit easier for you.

 

[erg923]

Alrighty then, guys & gals, I am starting to grow irritated here and would like some words of advice because I suspect that my department is setting me up to screw me over yet again this year. Yippee!

I intended to apply for internship next year... had all the stars, planets, moons, and all that jazz aligned with one another.

I absolutely *need* another external practicum experience. I have ONE outside of our training clinic. I was one of the lucky students who did not get one last year. (Go me! 🙄) They have declined my multiple requests to "volunteer" in external practica. They declined my request to apply through an unpaid practicum fair in the local area last year.

There are certain internship positions that I had hoped/intended to apply for that I currently cannot apply for due to my abysmal lack of assessment hours. Erg previously mentioned the bare minimum of hours with which some students try to apply and that pretty much reflects my assessment experience. Some of the sites I am interested in require 100-150 hours minimum. These sites are going to be out for me unless I manage to score a practicum site where I can quickly gain some much needed experience. (And face it, this is an overall area of weakness for me anyway!)

We are currently in the process of "ranking" our assistantship (and clinical practicum) preferences for next year. To say that our options our limited is an understatement. I have ONE option that will provide me with what I need/want. And everyone and their mother wants this position. Other assessment sites are not "in my track," but there are insufficient people to cover them because we have more students leaving after this year--so they're sort of desperate and they're going to need some students from my track to cover them in the end. These sites would at least give me the opportunity to obtain some much needed assessment hours, even if it's not the optimal solution with the desired population. I can still work with it.

I ranked all of these as options after discussion with my faculty advisor. Now I am being asked why I ranked the other track's assessment sites and why I do not consider "therapy" practicum sites with a population for which I have absolutely no interest (I have plenty of therapy hours to boot!).

At this point, I suspect that I am going to be pushed to one of these non-desirable sites whether I want it or not (no one wants them; no one ranks them)--or I will be given a non-practicum site, which I'm still not sure benefits me as I have multiple years of both research and teaching experience. Hell, more than my clinical experience at this juncture.

Dilemma:
1. Do I concede and accept the position regardless of what it may be and what training opportunity it does or does not provide?

2. Do I decline the position and attempt (yet again) to locate an external practicum position that will provide me with assessment experience that is oh, so sorely needed to fulfill my training needs? [I am hoping that they will consider it as I have a contact this time around who has agreed to help me and that they respect... but I don't want to drag this individual into a mess if it's not worth it.] Or do I risk being perceived as that problem child yet again?

I do not want to apply for internship feeling unprepared. Yet I believe that I am going to end up applying to "whoever will take me" because I am not adequately trained in certain domains at this point. Unless I stick around another year. And even that's no guarantee that anything will change with the way things work. Am I perceiving things incorrectly here? Am I being overly frustrated for no reason? (And I admit this may be a possibility . . . )

Thoughts? Suggestions?

If anything, at least I got to vent! No one else around here wants to hear it. [I had multiple students trying to talk me out of applying to the one site I do want . . . because they want it as well. I love this place! 😍]

Your program has historically come off as goofy and, with due repsect, is probably one of the programs my internship site is talking about when they voice the disconnect they see between academic training programs and the actual practice of psychology. I mean, you are one of the ones who didnt "get" an practicum last year!? What the hell does that mean? You just sit around and right manuscripts and/or teach all year. Thats what an experimental psych program is for! They are a CLINICAL program, and by that very nature they are obligated to provide you with opportunities for (gasp) clinical training. What is their mindset here and how can they possibly argue the opposite?

 

[psychwanabe]

What about any regrets...?

I don't know that I would call it a regret, in my first time around (when I didn't match) I think my biggest mistake was writing essay one in a way that may have made me sound like a difficult person to get along with. I had a LOT of people read it, but all of them knew me and so I don't believe they got that vibe.

This year, my DCT asked a new faculty member (who had never met me) if she would read my stuff. She did, and pointed out several parts of essay one that I meant to be humorous and she read as snarky and critical. I edited based on her feedback, and did great with the number of interviews compared to last year. Oh, and I matched! 🙂

So, advice is to have someone who does not know you look over your materials. This might be a faculty member, another psychologist at your practicum, an older student, etc. I think it made a big difference for me this year.

 

[paramour]

When did competition ever hurt anybody? I don't understand why programs want to limit how many people apply for a certain site (externship or internship). You are being evaluated as an individual for these positions.

1. I would apply for all of the positions that you personally are interested and rank them based on how you feel. It sounds like you need experience either way, so you might have to take what is available if you don't get your top picks.
2. Why not? Who cares if you look for an external practicum? Now if there is a earlier deadline involved for the internal ones, I can see it being an issue. You just need to be decisive about it. If the timing works for you to apply elsewhere, why not try to secure it and get the experience you want? If the timing DOESN'T work, then you have to decide how much risk you are willing to put up with.

I can't fathom having that kind of pressure. I was allowed to apply to any externship I saw fit and was supported with these decisions. If they require an internal practicum for part of the training, you know that up front. Being manipulated into a particular experience just sounds terrible.

What pressure? Everyone around here thinks we're not the least bit competitive.

As for applying for external externships, my department cares whether I apply for them because I need their permission and stamp of approval to take them. If they don't approve, I can't work them. Which was the problem last time around.

In the end, I have submitted my rankings based upon what I want, but they are apparently causing issues and I'm unlikely to get any of them. And it sounds like I may be unlikely to get anything clinically relevant at all. This happened again last year (I've had 3 years of non-clinical assistantships and they offered me another non-clinical assistantship for the present fifth year), so I eventually opted to decline my assistantship altogether after much thought--with the hopes that I could find a volunteer placement (no such luck because they repeatedly declined everything). It caused . . . a stir.

This is YOUR education, and if YOU don't watch out for yourself, it is hard to expects others to do so on your behalf. You absolutely need to be proactive and talk with your DCT (or whomever makes these decisions). I got 'bumped' my first year of practica...to an external site that was NOT one I wanted. It was a nightmare at the time, but I was eventually told that I'd get first choice my next year. When the next year came around, I was already in the ear of the DCT via e-mail and then following up with an appointment to make sure I got my #1 choice (which was a very competitive site). I was hesitant because she was a tough but fair DCT, but it all worked out in the end. The silver-lining of it all was that my first site had a big learning curve, but it ultimately gave me a good experience with a very difficult population. It also helped solidify my hunch that working with Peds was not for me. 😀

If you have any doubts about how to go about approaching your DCT or this issue in general, you should probably talk to your mentor and/or another faculty member you trust. I went to mine (and an outside faculty member), and it made me feel more comfortable and confident that I was taking the correct approach.

I AM speaking with both my faculty advisor AND DCT. After last year's fiasco, I wanted to confirm that my thoughts on the matter were known and that my training needs (and wants) were explicitly documented and discussed with all parties involved. In one ear ... out the other.

You want this? Ummm, no. How about you apply for this instead because they're adults and you're in the adult track, so they're all the same, right? M'kay. 🙄

I have now been informed that although they may consider allowing me to interview for one of the said positions (but it sounds like a far shot) because I have "too many hours" compared to others in my program. That I have obtained from my one and only site. And they will give me, oh, nothing instead. Here comes another non-clinical position in the running.

Excellent!

I am frankly quite ready to throw in the towel. Which disgusts me. I am working on my dissertation. I need an internship somewhere down the line. That is IT.

I agree on all counts. It honestly doesn't sound like your program has your best interests at heart, so it falls to you to defend them (which baffles me; heck, we don't even have formal externship applications at my program, we just tell our advisor where we want to work, email the site supervisor to be sure they have room and funding, and it's done).

As both Pragma and T4C have mentioned, serve as your own advocate. Sit down with your faculty mentor and/or DCT, lay out your concerns and the possible solutions, and go from there. Do your best not to let them brush you off, and definitely rank the sites based on YOUR preference; don't let the program strong-arm you into ending up somewhere that would provide limited, if any, benefit.

It's often true that being the "squeaky wheel" really can be beneficial (and is sometimes necessary to get your point across). Open communications with that contact of yours now if you haven't already done so. Test the waters to see how viable it would be to have a position at that site, which may make the accept/decline decision a bit easier for you.

Ah, I keep hearing about those programs. Must be absolutely beautific. We have to submit rankings. Then some sites/positions require application materials and interviews. Of course, this is if you are even selected by our department to be forwarded that far. Although some students are blessed enough to be selected based upon merit and/or need, there are some students who are selected simply because they are 'x' professor's/supervisor's student and they want them in that position. The faculty meet as a committee multiple times over the course of several weeks (and sometimes months) to slot students into the multitude of spots to figure out where to put everyone. It's got to be a pain in the arse for everyone involved. It does not help matters when there are insufficient clinical positions for everyone who wants them. 👎 Think internship on a much smaller scale.

I will see my contact tomorrow, so after my discussions earlier today in which I have already been advised that I am highly unlikely to receive anything, I think you are right. I am going to approach this individual to discuss options and then go back to my department and see what I can swing. They should know by now that I'm not bluffing when I tell them that I'm going to do something. 😳

Your program has historically come off as goofy and, with due repsect, is probably one of the programs my internship site is talking about when they voice the disconnect they see between academic training programs and the actual practice of psychology. I mean, you are one of the ones who didnt "get" an practicum last year!? What the hell does that mean? You just sit around and right manuscripts and/or teach all year. Thats what an experimental psych program is for! They are a CLINICAL program, and by that very nature they are obligated to provide you with opportunities for (gasp) clinical training. What is their mindset here and how can they possibly argue the opposite?

As mentioned in my earlier ramblings in this post, my program doesn't have enough sites to pass around. So people get passed over and assigned to non-clinical assistantships. I've been assigned three and they tried to assign me a fourth last year, which I graciously declined after finally being fed up with the entire mess. My actions actually irritated not only my program but freaked out the entire psych department because this particular position affected the entire department--so they lost funding when I declined my position. They attempted to coerce me into a decision after providing me with little notice regarding the position initially and then later attempted to get me to change my mind... to no avail.

It looks like I may be passed over again this year because I have too many hours. Even though I've only worked at one site outside my training clinic. Even though I have no assessment experience. So I'm a really well-rounded individual. And when I don't match, if I get that far, it will be blamed on my individual factors--not my program. 🙄

They argue that everyone needs to have at least one year of teaching experience before they leave. Except that this was only a recent implementation in the past year or two--I suspect due to having inadequate clinical sites available for students who need them. Except I have well over this before I ever came here, and I also presently teach at a community college (I'm not a stinkin' TA with a structured class syllabus, lectures, exams, etc. handed to me). Research experience is not required, but this is where most of my non-clinical experience has been . . . year after year after year. I have gained some good experience here. But I have also wasted a considerable amount of time (due to working 2, 3, 4 times the required number of hours), ruined some relationships (and my life), and gotten almost zilch out of it.

Sometimes I think I should have remained in my experimental psych program! I received just as much clinical experience.

I can talk 'til I'm blue in the face, but I'm not sure what good it's going to do me.

😎 < Me blue in the face!

 

[Pragma]

What pressure? Everyone around here thinks we're not the least bit competitive.

As for applying for external externships, my department cares whether I apply for them because I need their permission and stamp of approval to take them. If they don't approve, I can't work them. Which was the problem last time around.

Ah, I keep hearing about those programs. Must be absolutely beautific. We have to submit rankings. Then some sites/positions require application materials and interviews. Of course, this is if you are even selected by our department to be forwarded that far.

I don't get it. There is a shortage of internal clinical positions. Why wouldn't they let you go to an externship (and encourage it)?

This sounds terrible. Did you sign a document indicating that you would allow them to decide where you can and cannot apply for your externships?

 

[erg923]

I don't get it. There is a shortage of internal clinical positions. Why wouldn't they let you go to an externship (and encourage it)?

This sounds terrible. Did you sign a document indicating that you would allow them to decide where you can and cannot apply for your externships?

I think the real sad part is that, in 4 years (4 years, not 5 or 6..or however long paramour has been in that progam) I gained 1800 hours of practicum experience (900-1000 face-to face hours) in a university clinic, a VA med center and CBOC, an academic medical center clinical-research clinic, and a county hospital. I am now about to finish my internship in the VA. I have been in graduate school a year less than paramour (I think) and I have about twice the experience (or so it sounds like). This makes no sense to me! I dont understand how your progam doesn't see a problem with how its training students. Are they REALLY that out of touch? Do any of your faculty actually practice this profession?