what if md's only made $50K / year

[unregistered]

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Who on this board would still be in. I mean no matter if you became a surgeon, radiologists, internist... lets say you make $50,000/year, making it difficult to pay off loans or live anything but a frugal lifestyle later on (assumming you're starting from 0).

This would make medicine MOSTLY about the service to humanity aspect, intellectual challenge, maybe social status, but definitely not about the money. I'm just curious who would stick around cuz it seems like after a while the smartest people gravitate tot he highest paying specialties regardless of what kind of service it provides. now i know there are practical, humanistic aspects to derm and plastics, etc, but it just goes to show that a major motivation is money, and its probably more the rule than the exception. i'm not here on my soap box or anything, but i guess its just the way things go, and perhaps one day i'll be thinking more $$$ and lifestyle comfort than any service i provide

its like when med schools told you that MCATs were just one factor in your application and then you see people getting in with 42's and no volunteer activities

 

[DocRuth]

In lots and lots of countries (some of which I've lived in), doctors make less than, say, taxi drivers. In fact, some taxi drivers are doctors trying to make some extra money. But even in those countries, loads of people still want to be doctors and it is hard to get into medical school. So I suspect that if physicians in the West were paid a lot less than they are now, medicine would still be a very desireable field. Maybe medicine wouldn't attract the same kinds of people, and maybe that would be good, but it would still be attractive. I mean, when I decided I wanted to be a doctor, I was very young, and had NO CLUE about money. I guess I just never changed my mind.

 

[DocRuth]

I should probably add that I don't honesty think doctors should make all that much money, and I don't think medical students should have to take on as much debt as they do, at least in North America.

It all starts to look a bit like indentured servitude -- I HAVE to make lots of money to pay back my enormous student loan which is the size of a mortgage (except without the house), and that sort of thing. Arggggg.

 

[Street Philosopher]

I don't really care about money, but if doctors only made 50,000, I would consider that disrespectful and insensitive to the extraordinary service and sacrifice that doctors provide to society. In that light, I would not become a doctor, or I would not practice in the country. Like I said, I don't care about money, but I also don't like the feeling that I'm getting ripped off.

 

[luckyzero]

It's so much BS when people say things like "doctors should only make 50 k"

Doctors deserve every penny of what they make. If you really want to help people as a doctor, work part time to pay your bills and then donate the rest of your time to a free clinic , then you will be making 50 k a year.

You have the choice to make what you want. Go for it.

 

[supercut]

If doctor's salary was that low, then med school tution would have to come down as well. It's impossible to pay off $100-200,000 debt plus interest that accrues during residency on $50,000 a year.

However, I would have done it anyway.

 

[Hercules]

O.K. Everyone always says they would do it without the money. My question is how many people with families to support (i.e. spouse and kids) would still go through 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, and a residency if there was a minimal salary at the end of the road? I'm not sure I could do that to a spouse and children.

 

[KyGrlDr2B]

If an MD salary was that low, they would have to majorly cut back schooling, cut down tuition, cut down malpractice insurance, cut down the amount of time/stress it takes. And that isn't possible because you are dealing with life and death. The money is like a reward for how much freaking time, money, and stress you devoted to everything.

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by luckyzero
It's so much BS when people say things like "doctors should only make 50 k"

Doctors deserve every penny of what they make. If you really want to help people as a doctor, work part time to pay your bills and then donate the rest of your time to a free clinic , then you will be making 50 k a year.

You have the choice to make what you want. Go for it.

Well hell, those people who said doctor's salary is too high are the same critics who would demand a head CT/MRI/MRA when they go to the doctor with flu and headache. And these are the people who will threaten to sue or fire the doctor if the doctor's opinion is different from theirs.

This is America, people are free to say what they want. Because of the fact that every aspect of the society is driven by free market capitalism, Americans are just a lot more demanding and feel they are more entitled, just like they are the consumer of a service. In a way, they are the consumer, and it's their body. But doing so obviously disregard the traditional physician-patient dynamics. Americans also have a tendancy look at the job that they are in themselves and say that the pay in that field is too low, and then they look at every other field, and say that everyone else is overpaid.

 

[Red514LX]

Originally posted by unregistered
Who on this board would still be in. I mean no matter if you became a surgeon, radiologists, internist... lets say you make $50,000/year, making it difficult to pay off loans or live anything but a frugal lifestyle later on (assumming you're starting from 0).

I sure wouldn't. I'm sure medicine will make for a great career. However, at some point I have to draw the line. The time, money, and sacrifice are simply too great for $50K.

 

[BlackPuma]

Originally posted by Red514LX
I sure wouldn't. I'm sure medicine will make for a great career. However, at some point I have to draw the line. The time, money, and sacrifice are simply too great for $50K.

the countries were doctors get paid 50K a year, are the same countries where their medical eduction and college education are free and paid for the government?!

there is no freakin way, you can pay back the loans of 200K by makign 50K...the math doesnt add up...

its not matter of u doing it or not, it's all about relativity...if we have 200K loans to pay, then we have to get paid more than 50K

if not, if education is free, then 50K is fine by me, since I wont have loans to pay back...

 

[Big Lebowski]

I know this is all hypothetical...but there are so many things to consider.

To be blunt, in the U.S., if a doctor only made 50K per year, I am sure very few would pursue an MD/DO. And it has nothing to do with the "money" one makes, but rather getting a return on your investment of time, money, and sanity. Doctors are not really that well paid if you think about it. At least not like they used to be. Most younger physicians, residents, and med students are in it for the social good and intellectual challenge. You can make a lot more money in business (I know people will say "well, doctors are in business", but you know what I mean).

Of course in the West, doctors can be paid a lot less. The cost of education is subsidized by the government and in places like India, you can be a physician with an MBBS. That is less schooling than getting an MD/DO.

As for the US, debt is a huge issue, and there is really no way to change that. The cost of educating is too great. People don't realize just how much individual states already support their public institutions. These schools are not trying to make a "profit" by a high tuition. A lot of schools (mostly) public go in the whole when providing medical education. That is part of the reason why state schools favor its own residents. They are making an investment in their own healthcare and hoping these people remain in the state to practice....

Don't even get me started about malpractice....

 

[uclacrewdude]

Yes I would, b/c I love it.

I don't feel it's necessary to qualify my answer with a whole bunch of, "But still, doctors DO deserve more than that b/c of the service they render to society," or "Yes, b/c doctors in other countries get paid lots less and crap," or "Maybe, but 50K/yr is as low as I'd go," or "Yeah, although I'd have to specialize in something a little more lucrative."

Hands down, I'd rather do this job than anything else under any circumstances.

 

[UnderDoc]

Aside from issues of time and sacrifice, there are pragmatic reasons why doctors should be adequately compensated for their work - patient care. If doctors were scurrying around trying to make ends meet with subpar salaries then you can bet that decisions regarding patient care would be colored by financial incentive even more so than they are today. It would encourage unscrupulous and/or fiscally-challenged docs to make important healthcare decisions based on maximal financial gain rather than optimal patient outcome. Thus, I think that there is a good pragmatic basis for ensuring that doctors are compensated enough to at least be comfortable and provide for the well-being of their families (note: getting dirty rich and taking early retirement to one's yacht is not what I necessarily mean by comfortable).

Our culture thinks nothing of rewarding pituitary cases who have a talent for placing balls in baskets with Croesian riches, nor allowing bloated executives of bloated corporations to rake in millions for peddling products of questionable merit (or, as in Enron's case, questionable products). Why shouldn't those involved in healthcare be afforded an opportunity for a comfortable existence?

 

[miscalculated]

Originally posted by Big Lebowski
in places like India, you can be a physician with an MBBS. That is less schooling than getting an MD/DO.

Excuse me?? It's more schooling because the standard length MB BS for students like myself out of high school is 5 years.

And furthermore, you should have written, "in places like India, you are a physician with an MB BS". Because MB BS = MD. It's the name given to the British medical degrees and the MB BS degrees are awarded in India, Australia, South Africa, Hong Kong etc because these Commonwealth/former Commonwealth countries use the same medical education system as the UK (for historical reasons).

 

[Entei]

Originally posted by miscalculated
Excuse me?? It's more schooling because the standard length MB BS for students like myself out of high school is 5 years.

Pssst! I think he was counting the schooling as total years after high school. In the US, you need 4 years of college and 4 years of med school, for a total of 8 years post-secondary schooling.

 

[lowbudget]

SHHHYAW right, $50k? You're right, it's humanitarian and equivalent to being a high school teacher, painter, or jazz piano player.

So nope, I would prostitute myself out during my 20's, 30's, and maybe 40's and early 50's in investment banking or corporate law, build up as much F-You cash in the bank, quit my horrible existence, and do what I love: medicine.

Many professionals prostitute themselves out when they're young so that they can "retire" early and do what they like.

(Unfortunately, by the time I would graduate from med school, I'll need my own geriatrician!)

 

[Goofyone]

"I should probably add that I don't honesty think doctors should make all that much money,........"

🙄 WRONG!!!!!

".....and I don't think medical students should have to take on as much debt as they do, at least in North America."

AMEN!!!!! 😛


"I don't really care about money,..." [Yeah, right!] "...but if doctors only made 50,000, I would consider that disrespectful and insensitive to the extraordinary service and sacrifice that doctors provide to society. In that light, I would not become a doctor, or I would not practice in the country. Like I said, I don't care about money, but I also don't like the feeling that I'm getting ripped off."

YOU THINK THAT'S WHY WE HAVE NO GOOD SCHOOL TEACHERS NOWADAYS?? 😕

I REST MY CASE!!!!

 

[DocRuth]

Hercules - you raise a good question about supporting a family with a minimal salary in return for years of training. However, the bottom line is that even among doctors educated in the West, there are plenty of people who DO chose to do this. In doing so, they impart values to their children about money not being all that important, but people being infinitely valuable. If I'm ever a parent, those are the values I want my kids to have.

WatchaMaCallit - it is not completely accurate that all the countries where doctors make 50K a year offer free education. Furthermore, we forget that for MOST of the world, 50K is a LOT of money. For example, in Slovakia, which will soon be an EU country, starting doctors finishing 6 years of university make an average of 200 USD a month. However, they have just finished paying several thousand dollars a year in tuition.

Having said that, (and while I don't exactly pity US physicians), I do recognize as a non-American that medicine in the US entails some unique pressures. Nowhere on the planet is there such a good chance that someone will sue your pants off, driving up the costs of malpractice insurance to astronomical heights. Also, most people don't need student loans quite the size of US med students. All of this seems to contribute to the need (or desire) for sizeable salaries. Fair enough. I'm just not planning on going that route myself.

 

[miscalculated]

Originally posted by Entei
Pssst! I think he was counting the schooling as total years after high school. In the US, you need 4 years of college and 4 years of med school, for a total of 8 years post-secondary schooling.

Yeah I think he was too now!

 

[LovelyRita]

There are so many facets to this concept of physicians making 50K.

Today? Right now? As is? Absolutely not. I would have remained a Med Tech who made more than that, and I would still get to help people (I did apheresis) and have excitement and all that.

What if med school cost 5K and a BMW was 8K and a beauuuutiful house was 15K? Why yes, I'd be happy making 50K.

It's all relative. Welcome to economics 101. Supply and demand.

What if there was an announcement today that tomorrow all doc's salary was only going to be 50K??? Helllooo! Mass exodus from the field, poverty and probably the end of advanced healthcare as we know it. The loving souls who would work for that salary would be dead in a week from all the demand--and those that survive WILL manage to make A LOT OF MONEY because they are the only ones doing it! So we're right back to square one.

The original question is almost implausable at this date and time. But I get the point....especially about the 42 MCAT and never stepped foot in a hospital.
😀 😕 😕

 

[Zweihander]

Originally posted by monkeypox
Personally I think college is mostly a waste of time for anyone planning to pursue a medical career; other than for maybe emotional growth. It makes much more sense to go to med school straight out of High School. At the very least, you are transitioning from an 8:30am-3pm school day of straight classes, rather than 4 years of total freedom where you don't even need to attend class. It seems more logical to enter straight from high school, and spend maybe 5-6 years studying medicine, so that you don't have to cram all that material in so little time. The British system makes sense to me, but then, much of life in America amounts to hazing, like training to become a Navy Seal or something. Too macho in my humble opinion.

I dunno, I definitely have very unstructured schedule, where I pretty much don' t have to be anywhere I don't want to be, and nearly everything I do is self-motivated. I never had this degree of freedom in college. And personally, I hate the idea of committing myself to something like medicine without first seeing what the rest of the world has to offer. College and post-graduation life has definitely made me a more balanced person than I was...

 

[ZanMD]

To paraphrase, those who can, heal. Those who can't, go to law school.

In other words, if you're in it for the money, become a lawyer- they can make nearly as much as doctors depending on your law specialization(ie tax law, coporate law, etc). I would still want to be a doctor at 50K, but I would expect the majority cost of my education to be paid for. Over and above -say- 20k in debt. I want to be a doctor, because I see it as my mark on society. My way to make a contribution, and to help people. I don't see doctor's salaries as overblown, because as someone mentioned- supply and demand. If doctors weren't critical, they would only be making 50k. I can think of several other fields I could have chosen and made just as much money. I choose medicine because of what it stands for, and what it means to me. Do I care about money? hell yes! Does that mean I'd sell my mother to make a quick buck? No. There are always limits.

 

[unregistered]

I've seen a lot of interesting responses. But people aren't identifying themselves. Originally, my point was that the more sought after residencies are those with a cush lifestyle and big bucks. So I'd like to ask the dermatologists, surgeons, optho, rads, radonc, plastics, etc out there... would you still do medicine if it didn't pay? I know there is humanitarian service in any of these fields, but that probably does not explain their popularity and demand.

I chose $50K as an arbitrary number, but what I meant was that you would have a humble living.

 

[doc05]

what a ridiculous question. the anwer is of course no. anyone who says they'd work for $50k is either lying or just very naive.

 

[aphistis]

Every last person, huh? Thank God SDN has visionaries like you to save the rest of us from our own stupidity.

 

[Ms. Dawson DO]

i think the 50k would have most of us in far less than humble means with the amount of loans etc. i barely make 40k now, with just undergraduate loans and a son and bills i am barely making ends meet. Of course my mother made less with 4 kids and we survived somehow. However although I certainly have a calling to help people... i am positive i would not be able to make my family deal with the sacrifice or myself for that matter for the duration necessary to become a specialist physician and still be living hand to mouth or paycheck to paycheck.

I dont even need to be rich but at least comfortable. I don't see how its possible with the random 50k number you chose.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

I think you are missing the other great draw to medicine and many of its subspecialties. Yes, helping people is a noble cause, but as many pointed out, this can be done in many different fields. Most people who go to medical school also have other non-humanitarian and non-economic factors that affect their decision. The most important of these for me is the scientific aspect as well as the fact that it is a very interesting profession.

No one patient is the same as another and problem-solving using the extensive education we receive is interesting and challenging. For me, as a radiology resident, that can be altered to say that no patients CT, MRI, U/S, barium esophagram, etc is exactly the same and trying to figure out what is happening to the patients body is a daily exercise in critical thinking. As a field, radiology has less of the humanistic aspect (although our diagnoses make a great difference in patient care) but, in my opinion, more of a intellectual and scientific aspect than other fields.

If radiology paid 50K would I still do it? If it still involved being 180K in debt, going through grueling rotations in medical school and much more grueling internship, I probably would not. If the process was more benign, I may have still chosen the field or I may have entered another profession with similar academic and scientific aspects.

 

[Street Philosopher]

Anyone who says "Yes" to this question deserves to have their salaries immediately cut to 50k/yr.

 

[dvm n 06]

Just to put things in perspective, veterinarians have to go to school the same amount of time as MD's, but our starting salary is ~48,000 dollars a year. Granted, we don't have to do an internship or residency unless we want to specialize, but the average salary of a vet that has been out of school for 10 years is still under 100,000 dollars a year. Not all vet students accrue >100,000 dollars in debt, but many do. I will be paying over $80,000 dollars in tuition over the course of my 4 years of vet school. Veterinary medicine has always been my dream and I knew from the beginning that I would not get rich quick in this field. The salary of veterinarians is slowly increasing, but not enough to really offset the rising cost of tuition. My tuition just jumped to $27,000 a year. Right now veterinarians are battling the mentality of people who believe that we should treat their animals for free, because we love animals. A lot of people don't realize that the cost of veterinary care is very low when compared to human medicine due to insurance companies.

I'm not complaining about my situation. Just thought you might like a different point of view.

 

[Entei]

I never hear this silly question asked in reference to other professions. When's the last time someone asked whether dentists would still go into dentistry if they were only paid half their current salary? And I don't think I've ever heard someone ask a lawyer that question either. Those professions "help people" and pay well, too, but no one ever questions anyone's motivations for entering them.

Personally, I think it's a silly question to ask because no one ever chooses their profession for a single reason. There are lots of advantages to a career in medicine, and to boil someone's motivations down to either money or humanitarianism is over-simplifying the issue.

 

[carrigallen]

Originally posted by monkeypox
Personally I think college is mostly a waste of time for anyone planning to pursue a medical career; other than for maybe emotional growth. It makes much more sense to go to med school straight out of High School.

I don't think that many people would have the maturity to be able to make an informed decision about entering medicine as teenagers. Granted, in countries like India kids take a standardized test that largely determines what their profession will be...but that doesn't mean it is a good system. Heck, it is doubtful that some people even have the maturity to make a decision about medicine even after college.

 

[unregistered]

Originally posted by Entei
I never hear this silly question asked in reference to other professions. When's the last time someone asked whether dentists would still go into dentistry if they were only paid half their current salary? And I don't think I've ever heard someone ask a lawyer that question either. Those professions "help people" and pay well, too, but no one ever questions anyone's motivations for entering them.

Personally, I think it's a silly question to ask because no one ever chooses their profession for a single reason. There are lots of advantages to a career in medicine, and to boil someone's motivations down to either money or humanitarianism is over-simplifying the issue.

Nobody ever questions some of those professions because its quite obvious. Ask any law professor if people go into law mainly for money or power & they will give you an honest yes! Lawyers don't exaclty lay claim to as much nobility as physicians when it comes to helping people, unless they are currently shooting a commercial and want you to call 777-THE-LAW7. However, physicians in general claim to have chosen medicine largely because they want to help people. Some people on this board have stated they will still do it even if it didn't pay. Others have said that its crazy and naive to do this. Most responses so far have been no.

btw, this question has been posed to dentists, and they are probably somewhere b/t lawyers and physicians when it comes to helping people... i know, i'm lumping entire professions, and really its the individual that matters.

 

[ZanMD]

And again I'll say- if it's just about the money, then be a lawyer. entie is right, you're oversimplifying the issue. For myself, I'm giving up a quite lucrative career in information technology to pursue medicine. Will I every make 500K /year doing this? probably not, but I would definitely top out in the 6 figure range. No one should be choosing medicine soley for the money, and if you are, there are other fields in business, technology, and law that could afford you the same lifestyle, and not even have as great a demand on your life. Most people probably include money as a factor, but it shouldn't be the driving force.

And for the record, I'm neither niave nor lying- I would take the 50K with the stipulation that educational debt was aslo reduced proportionally. That is IF there were no option to make more. But I definitely won't turn it down either. I'm compassionate, but I'm not stupid 😎

 

[uclacrewdude]

50K/yr is about what you could make in generally any other middle class job, isn't it? Would you trade medicine for a regular desk job? The answer for me, and probably most other med students is a resounding, unequivocal no.

As to what entie said, I agree that no other profession questions if you're going into it for the love or for the money as much as medicine. However, look at it from another way: how many other professions get to claim a presupposed desire to help people as its basic tenet? Because you love what you do? Certainly not the guy behind the DMV desk. I like that people assume I'm caring, and I love working to fulfill that assumption every day.

I can honestly say college wasn't a waste of time. Maybe that statement was meant in the way that little of collegiate education applies directly to clinical medicine, but that isn't true. In college you get to find yourself and your values (something you can't do in high school b/c you're too busy trying to fit in); allow your scientific and extracurricular interests the chance to mature into a love for medicine; you establish critical thinking processes that allow you to see things from multiple points of view (talking to any teenager will quickly expose how unilaterally most kids think), arguably a fundamental concept in clinical medicine.

And Doc05, thanks for calling me naive for going into surgery, even though it's what I've wanted to do all my life and the money has nothing to do with it. Sorry if my "naivetee" makes you look as arrogant as most educated people think doctors are.

 

[doc05]

Originally posted by uclacrewdude

And Doc05, thanks for calling me naive for going into surgery, even though it's what I've wanted to do all my life and the money has nothing to do with it. Sorry if my "naivetee" makes you look as arrogant as most educated people think doctors are.

really? you're a 4th year? where are you applying for residency?

 

[ZanMD]

Originally posted by uclacrewdude
50K/yr is about what you could make in generally any other middle class job, isn't it? Would you trade medicine for a regular desk job? The answer for me, and probably most other med students is a resounding, unequivocal no.
are.

50K is about midrange for white collar. It signifies someone in middle management, coporate-wise. But if you have the ability to become a doctor, one must assume that they would equally apply themselves in a non-medical field, thus bringing them to the uppoer tier of the field, and breaking 6 figures. This is not an unrealistic goal.

 

[daphilster]

The question posed is not a silly question at all! We often know WHAT the reasons why love medicine are, but we seldom dissect out what's truly important in life. One thing I've learned in life is that often times everybody has similar likes or values, but the prioritization of these values is what sets many of us apart. Take family. The vast majority of us will say we highly value family. But some of us will put it first and foremost, some will put it after a career, and some of us just say we value it but we really hate their guts! 🙂

Anyways, to answer the question... its a tough one. I really can't say right now... lets say maybe... hahaha

 

[Entei]

Originally posted by daphilster
Anyways, to answer the question... its a tough one. I really can't say right now... lets say maybe... hahaha

See? You can't answer it. That's why it's a silly question. 😛

 

[SocietyRed]

I would be an investment banker.

 

[schnoozer]

First of all, 50k in some other country might be fine, but the cost of living and supporting a family in the U.S. (not to mention managing debt) is too high. Sure there are a lot of people that manage on far less than this in the US, but they do not go through what we go through. We give up a lot to be doctors and it is ridiculous to say that we do it for the money. Most of us could have gone into careers that would have allowed us to be ?well off?. There is a lot of opportunity cost while in training, we don?t have the financial resources to make contributions to our retirement, our kids college funds, homes, etc. When we are finally done, we are financially far behind many of our college counter parts who did not go to medical school. With that being said, it is unreasonable to say that doctors should also be multimillionaires that unfairly suck money out of society, but we should be given the opportunity to make a comfortable life for ourselves and our family. We should be given to opportunity to ?catch up? ?50k/year would make this pretty hard. At 50k/yr, the cost-to-benefit ratio would be too great. I speculate that you would see docs not loving their careers as much because their stress levels would be too high. There would be a rise in depression amongst doctors, their quality of patient care would decrease, and there would be a shortage of specialists that are willing to do high risk procedures. The people that ultimately suffer are the public/patients. No one wants that and 50k a year simply will not work.

 

[A.D.O.R.]

Then we would have to be treated like science Ph.D. candidates. In other words, the government would have to pay our tuitions and provide us with some sort of yearly stipend. Other wise M.D.s would have no chance, whatsoever, of paying off their loans before death. It is also likely that independently wealthy folks alone would pursue the M.D.

I don't know if this was previously mentioned. I did not read the other posts.

 

[want$it$bad]

Originally posted by SocietyRed
I would be an investment banker.

These posts always crack me up. As if becoming an investment banker is even an option. That's like saying, "Naw, I'd just go ahead and play professional baseball."

As for me though?... Naw, I'd just go ahead and become an equity partner at Cravath.

 

[HiddenTruth]

well lets see...you guys all jump on the fact that you cant pay back the loans if u make 50gZ a yr..forget that...say that u make a proportional amt..u mak 50g'z with 10gZ of tuition incurred each yr...what abt now eh??...you dont have a huge debt when u get out..i mean as typical as any "comp sci or small buss management" job u would find today staright out of undergrad ...i mean when u all say .."o i go thru the time and this and that so i can support my fmaily"...well then ure doing it for the wrong reasons...i mean if u have to use monetary value to keep your family happy or to justify the time that you have spent thru medical school and residency..then there is something wrong...i udnerstnad practicality can go only a certain ways before you have to draw the line..but dont u guys think that within the next decade or so we are going to be filled with a health care system that is driven by money and financial means as a means to success....i mean think abt it...hoesntly if MD's got paid 50gZ a yr..1. half of us wouldnt be here...because of the obvious reasons u all ahve mentioned...and i understand that there are practical reasons, but in mys cenario if hypothetically speaking, the tuition is decreased proportionally to the salary as any typical 90% of the jobs in the US...then there would be a decrs in the number of ppl that become physicians..and it makes u ponder becuase that is one of the main reasons why we have such arrogant doctors and surgeons out there..and in contrast to what another post said..that if MD's slaray was 50 grand then the output of thier work would decrs substantially...how can you say that...i mean perhaps then and ONLY then we might get the TRUE health care providers in our country...ppl who are actually huministic ...i dont mean to say that none of u all are..but i am saying that there a lot of us..and more than a minority that are becomming physicians for the wrong reasons..or atleast the monetary aspect has a much heavier wt then the liviing desire to help and save ppl's lives....those are my 2 cents....let me hear some feedback pls..thanks..

 

[8744]

Very true. On the other hand, very few people in America train for a minimum of seven years, eleven if you count undergrad, before they can start to make money at their career.

And it's senseless to talk about limiting the salary of doctors. We are all, with the exception of union workers, paid what we are worth.

Since the entry barriers to becoming a surgeon, for example, are so high (call it the opportunity cost), surgeons will always be relatively scarce and thus command a high price.

Third grade teachers and fast food workers, on the other hand, are a dime a dozen and get paid accordingly.

But for the record, as much as I like medicine, I wouldn't have abandoned a good career as a Civil Engineer if there wasn't a big payoff at the end. Sorry. I have a family. Private school is expensive. Additionally, I hope one day to be able to live in a very nice house in a very nice neighborhood and take my wife on expensive vacations to Italy. If you want to devote your career to providing free treatment to the street people then go for it. I'll support you all the way and probably donate a couple weeks per year of my time to help you.

 

[unregistered]

This brings up another important issue
[mount soap box]:

Its a tragedy that our public education teachers are not being paid more. Money is understandably a huge draw in most people's career decision. If education paid more, like it does in certain Asian countries if you factor in COLAs (cost of living adjustments), then we would be able to draw in more dedicated, educated teachers. A few friends of mine are teachers and they graduated from great colleges. Many of them are appalled by the ignorance of other teachers in the public school system.
Why are teachers paid so little? Well, there's the mechanistic why which will offer explanations as to how the situation has come to be the way it is. Education is socialized and government-mandated, and we pay our teachers after paying for things like pork barrrel projects, large corporate sponsors, but also justified things like police & welfare. Teaching positions are also not highly technical or specialized, so their is no scarcity of positions relative to other high paying occupations.

But the philosophical why still eludes me? Teachers need to eat and turn on electricity just as doctors do.

I'm glad medicine still pays well. If it paid 50K, 95% of us would find other jobs and basically becoming a doctor would be as non-selective as teaching. You would have largely underqualified doctors as a rule rather than exception.

 

[unregistered]

Oh yeah, the women too!! (or men if you're female) That's also a large draw I know for many med students who aren't already married/engaged.

The real question is would you still do medicine if you couldn't pick up women by flashing you stethescopes. 😉

 

[Bridaddy]

I think a lot of people would stop with the lawsuits, and start appreciating the 5 doctors left in the US A LOT more!

 

[8744]

Originally posted by unregistered
This brings up another important issue
[mount soap box]:

Its a tragedy that our public education teachers are not being paid more. Money is understandably a huge draw in most people's career decision. If education paid more, like it does in certain Asian countries if you factor in COLAs (cost of living adjustments), then we would be able to draw in more dedicated, educated teachers. A few friends of mine are teachers and they graduated from great colleges. Many of them are appalled by the ignorance of other teachers in the public school system.
Why are teachers paid so little? Well, there's the mechanistic why which will offer explanations as to how the situation has come to be the way it is. Education is socialized and government-mandated, and we pay our teachers after paying for things like pork barrrel projects, large corporate sponsors, but also justified things like police & welfare. Teaching positions are also not highly technical or specialized, so their is no scarcity of positions relative to other high paying occupations.

But the philosophical why still eludes me? Teachers need to eat and turn on electricity just as doctors do.

I'm glad medicine still pays well. If it paid 50K, 95% of us would find other jobs and basically becoming a doctor would be as non-selective as teaching. You would have largely underqualified doctors as a rule rather than exception.

Teachers are paid pretty well, at least in my state, if you factor in their benefits and the fact that most of them only work nine months out of the year. A teacher making 36K per nine month year with State employee health insurance and retirement benefits is doing pretty well for herself here in low-cost-of-living Louisiana. She is certainly in the top 20 percent of wage eaners in our parish.

Not bad for somebody with a Mickey Mouse education degree. Unfortunantly, the entry barriers to becoming a teacher are nonexistant so we do have a lot of *****s educating our children.

And a lot of polically indoctrinated *****s at that.

We send our kids to private school because there is just no accountability in the public schools. If the public school in your district suck you are out of luck. (And most of them suck to varying degrees. Even the so-called "magnet schools" can't compete with the local private schools.)

In my opinion public school teachers are paid too much, considering the crappy job they are doing educating the children of our state.

 

[huktonfonix]

Would I be a doctor if it was only 50G's. Hell No! Thats not to say I don't love what I do, but if you add up all the time and sacrifice doctors and doctors to be go through it just would not be worth it to me. 50G would not allow you to live comfortably if you have 100-200G in loans to payback. Didn't used to feel this way until after 3rd year of medical school, but that has a way of changing people....interested to hear any thoughts about this....When does the law of diminishing returns kick in.....