What if this person was your classmate?

[Nymeria Stark]

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I've been thinking about this quite a lot recently because I've been accepted to medical school and have started thinking about who I would like my future classmates to be.

I have an acquaintance friend (I'm female, and probably won't be friends anymore) who has also been accepted to schools this cycle. However, I know for a fact that he has anger issues and that he has physically abused his girlfriend (beating her up and even choking her at one point). Unfortunately, the girlfriend is somehow still with him and the incident was never reported, but his friends know it happened.

Like many other successful premeds, he comes off friendly, nice, maybe even charming. I'm sure he has also worked hard to get to where it is, but I just can't help but think about how I wouldn't want someone with a domestic violence background to become my classmate, let alone a doctor. Of course I wish his girlfriend had reported him and left him.

I guess my question is, what do you guys think of this and if you were in my position would you do anything?

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Honestly, there's nothing you can do about it at this point. We can really only hope that he never does it again. In medical school he will be in a community that (I would hope) would be a lot less condoning of violence against others and would be more promptly reported and sanctioned.
Slimy people get to the top, often by slimy means. You just have to believe he's the exception rather than the rule.

 

[indianjatt]

I think you'd be surprised by how many problems people/medical students have..... Some physical abuse others, some are substance abusers, some are mentally disturbed, etc.... All you can really do is be aware of your surroundings and do whatever is in your power to avoid such people/their erratic behaviors.

Edited

 

[Starry]

That's rough. I'd feel horrible if the violence ever escalated and I didn't do anything. At the same time, I don't think there is much you can do.

I would read up on how to report domestic violence. And be very, very careful. Do you even have hard, irrefutable evidence besides just memories and anecdotes? Other people's testimonies don't count, since you don't know if they would be willing to testify in court. In addition, unless the girlfriend is willing to press charges, there isn't much you can do.

I don't think that you should bring it up to the med school that he has been accepted to at all. While you might want to help the abused girlfriend, I don't think you should be out to ruin the guy's life (even if he is a scumbag. Scumbags have hopes and dreams too!)

indianjatt is right: everyone has their dirty laundry. Even med students are only human.

 

[Lambda Phage]

I think you'd be surprised by how many problems people/medical students have..... Some physical abuse others, some are substance abusers, some are mentally disturbed, some don't speak much, etc.... All you can really do is be aware of your surroundings and do whatever is in your power to avoid such people/their erratic behaviors.

One of those things doesn't belong in that list...

 

[Nymeria Stark]

I don't think I could/wasn't planning on reporting it since I don't have hard evidence and I'm not really out to ruin his life as you've said. I just dont think he should be in a career that aims to heal people. I can only hope it doesn't happen again for the girlfriend or whoever else he may date in the future.

 

[gumdrops]

One of those things doesn't belong in that list...

I wish we were classmates because you and I would be best frans, I think.

Now I wish I could pull up the thread on allo where someone described the medical profession as "a cesspool of personality disorders." lol. Anyway, medical students are human and have foibles or worse, as you're describing. This is where the disturbing divide between how people conduct themselves personally and professionally come in. It's pretty unsettling and quite common, especially in challenging professions. Although this guy is a clearly disturbed individual, he may do just fine as a doctor. I know that sounds really contradictory but it's quite common that people who are wonderful at work really suck outside of it to people who they supposedly "love."

 

[Spinach Dip]

As for ECs, I went on a mission trip to build an orphanage in Uganda, I am a French interpreter at the local ER, and I spent a year tutoring underprivileged teens their math.... Oh, and I like to punch my girlfriend whenever she makes my sandwich wrong.

 

[armybound]

future hand surgeon

 

[gumdrops]

future hand surgeon

Ah, I'd guessed future OB/Gyn.

 

[Psai]

Medical school is full of pathology and not just the ones they show you on powerpoint slides as gumdrops points out. Past behavior predicts future action but I don't think it will go well if you say something. You have no proof and if the girlfriend is still with him, there's no guarantee that she will want your help. Just let it be. Everyone has skeletons in their closet, some worse than others.

 

[masaraksh]

Extortion is always a good way to bring down your cost of attendance.

But seriously, I and probably most people here would advise that you leave this be. Unless you know and are close to the guys GF. Then make sure she's ok.

 

[SN12357]

I've been thinking about this quite a lot recently because I've been accepted to medical school and have started thinking about who I would like my future classmates to be.

I have an acquaintance friend (I'm female, and probably won't be friends anymore) who has also been accepted to schools this cycle. However, I know for a fact that he has anger issues and that he has physically abused his girlfriend (beating her up and even choking her at one point). Unfortunately, the girlfriend is somehow still with him and the incident was never reported, but his friends know it happened.

Like many other successful premeds, he comes off friendly, nice, maybe even charming. I'm sure he has also worked hard to get to where it is, but I just can't help but think about how I wouldn't want someone with a domestic violence background to become my classmate, let alone a doctor. Of course I wish his girlfriend had reported him and left him.

I guess my question is, what do you guys think of this and if you were in my position would you do anything?

What this guy did is clearly and obviously wrong. Unfortunately, there isn't really anything you can do about it re: his acceptance to medical school and likelihood of becoming a doctor.

The best thing you can do is be supportive of the girlfriend if needed and to not condone or accept domestic violence as you move through the medical system. Sadly domestic violence is not seen as wrong in many places; this guy won't be the first doctor to beat his girlfriend and he won't be the last. You can't stop him now but you can recognize domestic violence as a problem, treat patients who are victims well, and refuse to tolerate this behavior if/when you are in a position to influence hiring or acceptance decisions.

For a stark illustration of how badly our legal system handles cases of domestic violence, take a look at this story: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...le-violence/JrIPM5QEc0IBccdcNjkFSI/story.html

 

[happysnowman]

That story broke my heart reading it a few days ago. I think it's actually more reflective about how rich and connected parents bail out their violent kids. The fact that he never spent a day in jail before the murder is chilling.

I hope the Red Sox organization gets rid of his dad.

What this guy did is clearly and obviously wrong. Unfortunately, there isn't really anything you can do about it re: his acceptance to medical school and likelihood of becoming a doctor.

The best thing you can do is be supportive of the girlfriend if needed and to not condone or accept domestic violence as you move through the medical system. Sadly domestic violence is not seen as wrong in many places; this guy won't be the first doctor to beat his girlfriend and he won't be the last. You can't stop him now but you can recognize domestic violence as a problem, treat patients who are victims well, and refuse to tolerate this behavior if/when you are in a position to influence hiring or acceptance decisions.

For a stark illustration of how badly our legal system handles cases of domestic violence, take a look at this story: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...le-violence/JrIPM5QEc0IBccdcNjkFSI/story.html

 

[SN12357]

That story broke my heart reading it a few days ago. I think it's actually more reflective about how rich and connected parents bail out their violent kids. The fact that he never spent a day in jail before the murder is chilling.

I hope the Red Sox organization gets rid of his dad.

I worked in domestic violence advocacy and unfortunately, it's really not just about the parents bailing the kid out. Yes, that mattered here; had Jared Remy been from a poor family he would probably have gotten to jail eventually. That might or might not have stopped him eventually killing his girlfriend. But the pattern of disregarding substantial evidence about the danger someone with that behavior pattern poses is not unusual. Honestly a well-connected doctor who beats his wife would be just as likely to slide away from similar charges. Anyone who has worked with victims of domestic violence accumulates story after story of miscarriages of justice.

 

[happysnowman]

Hmm, given your background. How would you approach a patient who you suspected or knew was a victim of domestic violence? I know reporting rules are much more stringent for cases involving minors.

I was wondering if your method would be different after working with victims of DV. Thanks.

I worked in domestic violence advocacy and unfortunately, it's really not just about the parents bailing the kid out. Yes, that mattered here; had Jared Remy been from a poor family he would probably have gotten to jail eventually. That might or might not have stopped him eventually killing his girlfriend. But the pattern of disregarding substantial evidence about the danger someone with that behavior pattern poses is not unusual. Honestly a well-connected doctor who beats his wife would be just as likely to slide away from similar charges. Anyone who has worked with victims of domestic violence accumulates story after story of miscarriages of justice.

 

[SN12357]

Hmm, given your background. How would you approach a patient who you suspected or knew was a victim of domestic violence? I know reporting rules are much more stringent for cases involving minors.

I was wondering if your method would be different after working with victims of DV. Thanks.

You're right, the rules are different for cases involving minors, so I'm just going to address how I handled things as a victim advocate. I haven't (yet) been a health care provider in that role, but the principles to follow are going to be similar.

The most important thing is to recognize that adults make their own decisions. You can't make decisions for them. Most victims of domestic violence require many attempts before they're able to leave their abuser; you can't MAKE them leave, and trying to do so will only be harmful. So instead you try to create a situation that makes leaving possible. So be supportive; validate their concerns and fears; don't demonize the abuser but also don't excuse what they did; point out that the behaviors are unacceptable, that the victim has a right to not be hurt, to not be in a harmful relationship. Do not be judgmental and recognize that it's possible for the victim to be in love with the abuser, the abuser in love with the victim, and the relationship to be toxically dangerous all at the same time. Make sure that they have a safe place to go if the situation is imminently dangerous; connect them with local resources and educate about options (ie restraining orders, etc).

Getting out of an abusive relationship is a long, complicated process both emotionally and economically, so at each step the goal is to make the next step possible, or at least more likely.

I hope that makes sense, it's a super bullet-pointed version of the basics.

 

[Davida]

Doesn't sound like you're close with the girlfriend - that's a hard situation. If she was your friend, I'd recommend slipping her the number for the National Domestic Violence Hotline (http://www.thehotline.org). If you get the opportunity, you still could.

Also, everything that @SN12357 said for future interactions with the victim.

If you're in college still, I really want to say that you should report the situation to some kind of school counselor at least - they may not be able to do anything without evidence, but at least it's on record if something else happens and he's being prosecuted. Someone else who knows more than me about this should chime in if I'm totally off base. (I would feel 100% no guilt about reporting him. If he gets in trouble, you're not the one who ruined his life - he did that by beating his girlfriend.)

I agree with you about not being friends with the abuser. Helps you protect yourself, and sends a subtle social message that his behavior won't be tolerated. It might be a very remote chance that he'd ever hurt you, but don't EVER be alone with this guy if you can help it.

And to answer the original question - no, I don't think this guy should be in medical school. I don't care how hard you worked - if you're in the habit of beating up people who can't protect themselves, you do not belong in medicine. But unfortunately, a lot of abusers are great at being charming for the public, and it can be very difficult to figure out that someone is this kind of a**hole from a single face to face interview.

 

[BeancheBlanco]

I think you'd be surprised by how many problems people/medical students have..... Some physical abuse others, some are substance abusers, some are mentally disturbed, some don't speak much, etc.... All you can really do is be aware of your surroundings and do whatever is in your power to avoid such people/their erratic behaviors.

I like how you put "don't speak much" in the same category as physical abuse, substance abuse, and mental problems.

 

[indianjatt]

One of those things doesn't belong in that list...

My bad guys. I was going to continue the list but just stopped short of the last example. My point was we all have weaknesses and problems in our lives. Some have very minute problems, while others may have big problems that put them/others in harm. Again, sorry for coining that statement with the rest of the others. I Should've realized the parallelism going on aha

 

[indianjatt]

I like how you put "don't speak much" in the same category as physical abuse, substance abuse, and mental problems.

Again I'm really sorry for that. I edited it and posted a response one post above. I in no way intended to categorize problems in terms of severity.

 

[touchpause13]

I just want to point out that abusing someone is fair more serious than having skeletons in your closet or making past mistakes. Recidivism for abusers is horrific, even if the girlfriend does leave him, he will most likely do this to the next girl, and the one after that.

This is a really really tricky spot you are in and I agree that this guy should not be a doctor, but there isn't much you can do here. Even if you were close with the girlfriend that doesn't necessarily mean that you would be able to or should even try to convince her to go to the police. All you could do is if you are in a situation where you see or hear him hitting her call the police. If they take him into custody that would go on his record and show up on the med school background check. Sorry I can't provide more hopeful advice. Just try and be there for the girl as much as possible.

Also i second talking to someone at your school. The Dean of students may be a good person to go to.