What is a fair amount of notice to give before leaving a job?

[deleted1100659]

I was considering 3 months since they dont have other physicians in clinic and im in a state where phsyician supervision is mandatory for midlevels, so I ultimately don't want to disrupt patient care and them to have issues, but I would love to hear some feedback as to what a reasonable amount of notice to give is.

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[FlowRate]

The most important part is to meet any contractual obligations.

Aside from that, as much notice as possible as long as you don't think it'll lead to some sort of notably adverse/retaliatory consequence for you. It takes a long time to hire a new doc and to do effective patient transfer.

 

[Merovinge]

Most contracts spell out exactly the time frame. If you happen to have an at-will setup (I actually do right now), I would still try and give a few months notice. 3 months is certainly generous if you have no time requirement needed, no one would slight you for 2 months.

 

[deleted1100659]

Most contracts spell out exactly the time frame. If you happen to have an at-will setup (I actually do right now), I would still try and give a few months notice. 3 months is certainly generous if you have no time requirement needed, no one would slight you for 2 months.

thanks! i have just have an at will agreement sort of thing with no formal contract

 

[the5thelement]

In the VA it was 2 weeks notice. Look in the contract - 30 days should be reasonable.

 

[Sushirolls]

1) contractual time obligation
2) patient abandonment time per state, typically 30 days
3) Not your problem to solve their mess or be concerned about the bureaucracy created in onboarding new physicians. They can bring in a locums. Or they step up and pay you more for extended time with a new contract... Big Box shops won't love you back. Give the 30 days if you can.
4) Give a day that coincides with your interest. If you start a job on day 74, give 73 days notice. Or if you want a week off between the jobs, give 63 days notice, you get the notion.

I once worked at a place that was 120 days. Horrible experience. That's a topic for another day.

 

[comp1]

Three months is a really nice number to pick. You never know how a new job is going to work out. The grass always SEEMS greener. Don't burn bridges just because you can.

 

[Sushirolls]

The notion of "burned bridges" is a fallacy.
This is a fallacy.
Jobs will forget you the second you step out the door.
They will have no qualms about replacing you with a midlevel.
The fact the OP is already supervising midlevels, lets you know their priorities are not with/for physician level care but merely because of the requirement that they need one... Why offer loyalty to an organization that by their actions doesn't value loyalty but merely operates in the confines of business?

 

[FlowRate]

I'll note my goal with "as much notice as possible" is primarily in the service of patient care more than taking care of your employer. 30 days may not be enough time in your situation (no other psychiatrist, midlevels with no supervisor after you leave) to have a termination visit with the majority of the patients who would likely need or benefit from it and to ensure adequate follow-up (regardless of state abandonment laws.)

 

[Sushirolls]

OP gives 30 day notice.
They have their act together and quickly get a new doc lined up. All is well.

Or they keep practicing with the midlevels unsupervised, but behind the scenes on paper, OP is still the supervising doc... until they get some one 1-6 months later. Basically they break the law intentionally but play ignorant if caught.

Or they quickly hire a locums, and hemorrhage money, and strive to get some one permanent. Perhaps they learn, and put future contracts down with 60 or 90 days termination notice.

Or they approach the OP and say please, please, give us more time. Wherein, OP says, sure, I can give you a week block of renewals, only if both parties agree to renewal for a week - paid in advance - for a rate that is on par with locums. Big Box shop speeds up their hunt for a replacement. OP makes bank while they wallow around. You know, all that extra profit they are getting by having a bunch of midlevels? OP might actually get to see some of that.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

60 days is pretty reasonable, but yes you have no obligation it seems in this case besides avoiding being tagged for patient abandonment, so you would probably be fine with 30 days. Keep in mind with a truly at will employment, they would have no legal obligation to give you advanced notice either and could theoretically tell you to clean your desk out by the end of today...like lots of big companies do in at-will states.

There's no way they'll even have someone in there in 60 days, probably not even 90 days. It'll take them a week to even realize what's happening, much less start putting together a job ad to put out. I do think it's a bit more fair to patients to let them know 30+ days in advance you're leaving, especially if it's going to be hard for them to followup in the same clinic and they might have to look elsewhere.

 

[comp1]

I do not get this whole idea that employers forget you as soon as you leave. Supervisors are people, not distant automatons on a different planet. I really appreciate all of the staff that gave several months notice before leaving and would be a lot more inclined to take them back than those who just disappeared. It DOES make a difference to employers. You aren't all just replaceable cogs everywhere.

 

[deleted1100659]

I do not get this whole idea that employers forget you as soon as you leave. Supervisors are people, not distant automatons on a different planet. I really appreciate all of the staff that gave several months notice before leaving and would be a lot more inclined to take them back than those who just disappeared. It DOES make a difference to employers. You aren't all just replaceable cogs everywhere.

possibly some places, but if my state didnt require midlevel supervision then I dont think they would have hired me and would have just used all midlevels. I am pretty sure I am just a name to put on the supervising physician agreement forms.

I already have four midlevels under me, now they're putting a fifth under me. Note that I wasnt asked if that was ok, I was told they were hiring her and I would be her physician supervisor.

When I finish here I will definitely be filling out the forms to end supervision, as there is no way im doing that if I don't work there, and will have them sent to the state medical board next day, thats for sure.

They have actually been trying to hire another physician I think from the entire time ive been here...and have not had success with it. The area is very undesirable for most people, the job is very high level acuity patients, and the pay just isnt worth it for the job, so they will most likely just have to get random locums to do it I guess.

Interesting there is some different time frames that everyone has in mind on here...Definitely will take all this into account, thank you!

At the the end of the day, I do want to make sure that I at least gave them some time to figure something out because I don't want anything bad to happen to the patients due to lack of access to care. I havent accepted any offers yet, but I have an interview with a place in the near future and the job looks like a really good job.

Also if they had ample doctors lined up, I do feel like they would replace me with a more "compliant" doctor who doesnt ask questions, there is nothing really stopping them from hiring/firing at will

 

[Orgone]

possibly some places, but if my state didnt require midlevel supervision then I dont think they would have hired me and would have just used all midlevels. I am pretty sure I am just a name to put on the supervising physician agreement forms.

I already have four midlevels under me, now they're putting a fifth under me. Note that I wasnt asked if that was ok, I was told they were hiring her and I would be her physician supervisor.

When I finish here I will definitely be filling out the forms to end supervision, as there is no way im doing that if I don't work there, and will have them sent to the state medical board next day, thats for sure.

They have actually been trying to hire another physician I think from the entire time ive been here...and have not had success with it. The area is very undesirable for most people, the job is very high level acuity patients, and the pay just isnt worth it for the job, so they will most likely just have to get random locums to do it I guess.

Interesting there is some different time frames that everyone has in mind on here...Definitely will take all this into account, thank you!

At the the end of the day, I do want to make sure that I at least gave them some time to figure something out because I don't want anything bad to happen to the patients due to lack of access to care. I havent accepted any offers yet, but I have an interview with a place in the near future and the job looks like a really good job.

Also if they had ample doctors lined up, I do feel like they would replace me with a more "compliant" doctor who doesnt ask questions, there is nothing really stopping them from hiring/firing at will

Well that's a horse of a different color.

Minimal legally allowed notice is my vote. As comp1 says above, you are not a replaceable cog, if they are treating you like one then go ahead and do the same.

 

[J ROD]

Most contracts I saw were 3 months. I think that is a fair amount.

 

[Candidate2017]

There are actually 3 standards for notice that may not be the same lengths: contractual notice, statutory notice, and standard of care in the community.

For example, a contract may require 2 weeks, but the state may require 30 days and a 30 day script. There's also the issue of rural where primary care and psychiatrists are not readily accessible, and past psychiatrists in the community may have given 90 days' notice and 90 day supply of meds.

 

[dl2dp2]

I do not get this whole idea that employers forget you as soon as you leave. Supervisors are people, not distant automatons on a different planet. I really appreciate all of the staff that gave several months notice before leaving and would be a lot more inclined to take them back than those who just disappeared. It DOES make a difference to employers. You aren't all just replaceable cogs everywhere.

LOL. Yes they are. It's just that some places are more honest about it than others.