What is it like to find an associate position fresh out of dental school?

[UConnDoIt]

And exactly how does the experience gained compare to doing a GPR/AEGD? From your personal experience.

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[allDAT]

Honestly, a great dentist with a good practice will not hire a new graduate.

Your experience after graduation is hit or miss and largely what you want to make of it and where you see yourself going career-wise. There are many variables, but in general, a good residency program is a good idea. Completing a residency program doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be better positioned to work in a great office though because they still don't want a dentist with just 1 year of experience in an academic setting regardless of how good the residency is. I'm painting with a broad brush here, but it rings true most of the time. All of us have to practice somewhere to get reps in and you're local private practice with a good reputation isn't going to bring you into their office to "learn" because the damage you can do to their business can take years to undo.

 

[Mauricio45]

Honestly, a great dentist with a good practice will not hire a new graduate.

Your experience after graduation is hit or miss and largely what you want to make of it and where you see yourself going career-wise. There are many variables, but in general, a good residency program is a good idea. Completing a residency program doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be better positioned to work in a great office though because they still don't want a dentist with just 1 year of experience in an academic setting regardless of how good the residency is. I'm painting with a broad brush here, but it rings true most of the time. All of us have to practice somewhere to get reps in and you're local private practice with a good reputation isn't going to bring you into their office to "learn" because the damage you can do to their business can take years to undo.

But then again, once a dentist gains enough experience, they avoid private practice because most people tend to realize that most associateships "suck". So, PP owners often have no choice but to hire new grads or people with limited experience. Once dentists gain enough experience, they tend to think "Why am I working so hard for the owner to build his/her practice? We both have the same degrees. I can go out and buy own office and make the same amount of money or even more!". So they leave.

 

[allDAT]

But then again, once a dentist gains enough experience, they avoid private practice because most people tend to realize that most associateships "suck". So, PP owners often have no choice but to hire new grads or people with limited experience. Once dentists gain enough experience, they tend to think "Why am I working so hard for the owner to build his/her practice? We both have the same degrees. I can go out and buy own office and make the same amount of money or even more!". So they leave.

It is a bit of a dilemma. You can't get a job without experience, but you can't get experience without the job. I've found many private practice owners forget where they started and have unrealistic expectations for associates as far as their experiences - like asking for a portfolio of cases that may take several years to accumulate. What they don't understand is that associates who are building a portfolio of their results and documenting their treatment in a way that they could present their cases to sell more cases are on their way to ownership. So by the time they have 5+ years of experience, they're not interested in positions that don't have a partnership or buyout potential and they may have wised up to the fact that most of those opportunities don't work out either so they're looking to go out on their own as you suggested. Then owners complain that they can't find good associates. They really need to find a well-intentioned dentist with 1-2 years of experience and plug them into their practices and treat them well, but those opportunities in major metros are few and far between.

There are great associates available though, but expecting an associate to come in and do specialty procedures all day is unrealistic. Another thing owners often want - they want an endo/perio, not a general dentist and you know this because they say they refer out a lot of molar root canals and extractions so you can do those which is laughable.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

And exactly how does the experience gained compare to doing a GPR/AEGD? From your personal experience.

New grads have it very tough. They have astronomic student loans and decreased clinic experience. For example, my sister graduated 11 years after me (same DS). I had to cement 4 bridges (I had to prep 5 because one moved out of state with my temp bridge) to her one. My colleague graduated 2012 and only had to do 5 crowns. There was a saying that you only learn 5% of dentistry while in school. With Covid, gaining clinical experience may be even more difficult.

I was fortunate to have the USAF pay for my school while gaining valuable experience with the help of many mentors. One of them did a 2 year comprehensive AEGD in Mississippi where there were no other specialty residencies to compete for procedures (molar endo, 3rds, perio, prosth, etc.). He knew all the dental journals and all of us would ask him for his opinions. I was planning to follow in his footsteps but they closed the residency at that location and only had Lackland AFB where they only do amalgam crowns as the other dental specialties get their appropriate cases. IMO, 2 yr military comprehensive AEGD with no competing specialty residencies is the best way in making you a "Super GD."

 

[UConnDoIt]

New grads have it very tough. They have astronomic student loans and decreased clinic experience. For example, my sister graduated 11 years after me (same DS). I had to cement 4 bridges (I had to prep 5 because one moved out of state with my temp bridge) to her one. My colleague graduated 2012 and only had to do 5 crowns. There was a saying that you only learn 5% of dentistry while in school. With Covid, gaining clinical experience may be even more difficult.

I was fortunate to have the USAF pay for my school while gaining valuable experience with the help of many mentors. One of them did a 2 year comprehensive AEGD in Mississippi where there were no other specialty residencies to compete for procedures (molar endo, 3rds, perio, prosth, etc.). He knew all the dental journals and all of us would ask him for his opinions. I was planning to follow in his footsteps but they closed the residency at that location and only had Lackland AFB where they only do amalgam crowns as the other dental specialties get their appropriate cases. IMO, 2 yr military comprehensive AEGD with no competing specialty residencies is the best way in making you a "Super GD."

Do you think that there is anything a dental student can do now to be more proactive and possibly make up for the lack of clinical procedures/knowledge in dental school?

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Family friend / mentor. Or otherwise connections through a GPR.

Not all GPRs are equal. This year was incredibly competitive. My program apparently had a record high (55) applications for 4 spots.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

Do you think that there is anything a dental student can do now to be more proactive and possibly make up for the lack of clinical procedures/knowledge in dental school?

Just brainstorming ideas depending on your location, available time, etc. If you can volunteer at free clinics for the underserved and work on your extractions and anesthesia skills. We had one where the students are free to work under the director's license. I would focus on getting good with Inferior Alveolar blocks because you won't get very far if you cannot numb someone. Watch a lot of YouTube videos on crown preps, impression taking, etc. Call some reps at Dentsply Sirona, Nobel implants, etc and see if they offer workshops, lunch and learn, etc. Call you local dental labs to come out for lunch and learn or go to their place and gain insights on different procedures. Maybe shadow some experienced dentists, network and befriend some mentors.

 

[wannagiveup]

And exactly how does the experience gained compare to doing a GPR/AEGD? From your personal experience.

Corporate dentistry or public health. Pick one.

 

[Mauricio45]

Keep in mind that the majority of private offices do not have enough work for associate. It's the number 1 reason associateships fail.

Best to go to corp/public health for like 1-2 years if you want speed and reps.

 

[Pastryeater]

And exactly how does the experience gained compare to doing a GPR/AEGD? From your personal experience.

I had the same question last year when graduating dental school. Many of my peers pursued specialties and GPRs, but I really loved general and I felt ready to practice straight out. Despite the pandemic and the uncertainties during that time, I didn't find getting job interviews to be too difficult. I was moving to a new state, so I didn't have any connections while looking for jobs. I relied on indeed, google, craigslist, and other online resources for the majority of my job search. Almost all of the offices I applied to got back to me. Currently, I work in private practice full time. The office has three hygienists and one other dentist. It's a busy office with modern tech (iTero, CBCT, etc). I've encountered a variety of cases and really expanded my scope of practice. I am doing molar endos, invisalign, and implants - things I was able to learn through CEs (for implants, I participated in a 3-day live surgery course that taught me everything I needed to feel confident in placing implants). Everyone's paths are different, but for me practicing straight out was the right decision and I'm very happy I chose this route as opposed to a GPR. I've been practicing for 9 months now, and in that time I have done much more dentistry (countless molar endos, 3M extractions, 25 implants, sinus lifts, 30 invisalign cases, emergencies - an experience akin to or possibly even more diverse than some residency programs). I encourage you to consider working straight out. I had similar concerns last year that I would not be able to find a job as a new grad, but I found out that isn't the case. If you truly want to practice right out of school, you will be able to. Look for opportunities that will allow you to progress and improve - they are definitely out there. Look for busy practices with good equipment, that are trying to replace a dentist who is leaving. Make sure they have an established patient base.
I saw that many of the posts here were discouraging of practicing right out of school and favored GPRs, but from personal experience, working as a dentist may be better than being a resident. Not all residency programs will provide you with a wealth of experience and it is not guaranteed that you will feel confident to practice after a GPR. You learn from being in the trenches and you'll receive the best experience when you're actually getting your hands dirty and working.

 

[charlestweed]

You learn from being in the trenches and you'll receive the best experience when you're actually getting your hands dirty and working.

Agree 100%. You gain more experience and become a better clinician from working at an office that has a busy schedule every day. A government run dental clinic is not a good place to start your career because of the lack of pressure to produce and the lack of pressure to do good work to keep the patients happy.

 

[Mauricio45]

(for implants, I participated in a 3-day live surgery course that taught me everything I needed to feel confident in placing implants).

Can you really learn everything in 3 days for placing implants? I'm considering taking a similar course too but am unsure. I may consider AAID Maxicourse instead.

 

[bones18]

Can you really learn everything in 3 days for placing implants? I'm considering taking a similar course too but am unsure. I may consider AAID Maxicourse instead.

3 days is not enough to be placing implants in all situations. My guess is simple one tooth slam dunk non esthetic cases and possibly indirect sinus lifts (be careful). I did an AAID Maxicourse before specialty training and over the 30 days I felt I was way more knowledgeable. Currently in specialty residency and the Maxicourse definitely helped with my basic understanding of implants, but no way compares to an actual residency where you will be placing implants and the amount of time you spend in class room discussing cases and how to avoid complications and trouble shoot problems when they arise or are referred to you. As a GP you can continue taking CE and get really good at implants etc., but you need to invest the time. 3 days is just the start.