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[mcfaddens]

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I saw this on pathoutlines this evening. I thought this sort of self refferal thing is illegal or am i wrong about this.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (USA). A GI group is looking for a pathologist subcontractor to work two days a week. The ideal candidate will be AP/CP board certified with the highest professional standards. link



UPSTATE NEW YORK (USA). A GI group is looking for a pathologist subcontractor to work two to three days a week. The ideal candidate will be AP/CP board certified with the highest professional standards. link

You will be a subcontractor. Reading is at the group's office. You will be an integral part of a team approach to the treatment of patients. Your work hours are flexible. This is two days a week job. A full reading site will be provided. Custom scope, software and workspace are also provided. There is also a GI Fellowed pathologist who is available for immediate consults. If you are interested, contact us as soon as possible. This is a part-time W2 employee position.😕

 

[djmd]

UPSTATE NEW YORK (USA). A GI group is looking for a pathologist subcontractor to work two to three days a week. The ideal candidate will be AP/CP board certified with the highest professional standards. link

You will be a subcontractor. Reading is at the group's office. You will be an integral part of a team approach to the treatment of patients. Your work hours are flexible. This is two days a week job. A full reading site will be provided. Custom scope, software and workspace are also provided. There is also a GI Fellowed pathologist who is available for immediate consults. If you are interested, contact us as soon as possible. This is a part-time W2 employee position.😕

I dont know about FL, but I am pretty sure that is not kosher in NY.
They may be doing some end run arround the law, but I don't it will last... they may just think they have a solution...

 

[LADoc00]

I saw this on pathoutlines this evening. I thought this sort of self refferal thing is illegal or am i wrong about this.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (USA). A GI group is looking for a pathologist subcontractor to work two days a week. The ideal candidate will be AP/CP board certified with the highest professional standards. link



UPSTATE NEW YORK (USA). A GI group is looking for a pathologist subcontractor to work two to three days a week. The ideal candidate will be AP/CP board certified with the highest professional standards. link

You will be a subcontractor. Reading is at the group's office. You will be an integral part of a team approach to the treatment of patients. Your work hours are flexible. This is two days a week job. A full reading site will be provided. Custom scope, software and workspace are also provided. There is also a GI Fellowed pathologist who is available for immediate consults. If you are interested, contact us as soon as possible. This is a part-time W2 employee position.😕

These are pod labs, aka the demise of pathology, AVOID them at all costs if you at all value pathology as a speciality. In fact, crank call em and tell they are money grubbing lil bitches, because in fact they are.

 

[dermpathlover]

These are pod labs, aka the demise of pathology, AVOID them at all costs if you at all value pathology as a speciality. In fact, crank call em and tell they are money grubbing lil bitches, because in fact they are.

Surely some desperate FMG or woman with kids will take it.

 

[mcfaddens]

is there any way to stop or tax the a$$holes doing this kind of crap. I mean if this goes on in your area can you proceede with a lawsuit some sort of no competition crap or something.

 

[dermpathlover]

is there any way to stop or tax the a$$holes doing this kind of crap. I mean if this goes on in your area can you proceede with a lawsuit some sort of no competition crap or something.

The best hope to bust it up is the "self referral" issue.

It's really really bad. They most lucrative parts of pathology GI, DERM and GU are being cherry picked away from us while turning pathologists into the clinicians' bitches.

 

[pathstudent]

That's really weird if they only need a person 2 days a week, especially if that pathologist is their only employee. Will the person just work 3 hours per day or 2 days a week? It would be strange to have biopsies signed out only on Mon and Thurs and just sit around tues, wed and fri.

It sounds like one of the jobs is for someone to help out an over-worked gi-trained pathologist.

I don't understand who the hell would be taking these jobs, but I guess it is no different than working for a reference lab with the exception that your boss is some guy you went to medical school with as opposed to some corporate type at the reference lab.

This is really sad for pathology both in terms of money being siphoned away from the pathology community and in terms of a loss of prestige/autonomy. You go from being a physician consultant to being one of their employees. "Hi welcome to our GI endoscopic center/lab. This is our secretary. These are our nurses. This is our histotech. And finally, this is our pathologist."

Secondly, what is up with this title "GI-pathologist". I don't believe spending a few extra months in residency looking at biopsies gives you any edge over a "general surgical pathologist" once both are in private practice for a few years.

Does someone please have the cojones to send these guys a CV/fake CV and find out what the pay and all around deal is?

 

[djmd]

That's really weird if they only need a person 2 days a week, especially if that pathologist is their only employee. Will the person just work 3 hours per day or 2 days a week? It would be strange to have biopsies signed out only on Mon and Thurs and just sit around tues, wed and fri.

No the just dont want to pay for full time.
Plus the work load can't be high enough to keep a pathologist busy 5 days a week full time.
What is the big deal about sitting arround for a day? The sit arround sat and sunday.

 

[yaah]

No the just dont want to pay for full time.
Plus the work load can't be high enough to keep a pathologist busy 5 days a week full time.
What is the big deal about sitting arround for a day? The sit arround sat and sunday.

Indeed - and in addition many GI biopsies are not rush cases. They can be signed out in a week or so and no real clinical harm will come. The occasional rush case can be put through without the two day a week person being involved. It's a "clever" way to do business - make this new person work two days a week, but sign out 4 days worth of work (or 5 days) in that time.

 

[mcfaddens]

But who bills and who gets paid? Does the GI group bill and give only a portion of the 88305 to the pathologist lets say $10 bucks and keeps the other ~$20 for the overhead/ equipment? If thats the case if this trend continues its like cutting your salary by 1/3. Why waste 13+ years of post high school training to get paid what a bartender straight out of high school makes in Miami? And watch another physician abuse your expert opinion.Its almost like us looking at a case putting it down for a half hour and looking at it again so we can charge twice. Pretty scary. I just dont get why this kind of crap goes on in path. It dosent happen in other specialities. I dont go reading CT scans or MRI's, or charge insurance a radiology read if the radiologist happens to rent office space from me. It seems like we have a pretty proactive group here is there any thing we can do to stop this kind of crap. Send a mass e-mail to congress or something?

 

[pathstudent]

But who bills and who gets paid? Does the GI group bill and give only a portion of the 88305 to the pathologist lets say $10 bucks and keeps the other ~$20 for the overhead/ equipment? If thats the case if this trend continues its like cutting your salary by 1/3. Why waste 13+ years of post high school training to get paid what a bartender straight out of high school makes in Miami? And watch another physician abuse your expert opinion.Its almost like us looking at a case putting it down for a half hour and looking at it again so we can charge twice. Pretty scary. I just dont get why this kind of crap goes on in path. It dosent happen in other specialities. I dont go reading CT scans or MRI's, or charge insurance a radiology read if the radiologist happens to rent office space from me. It seems like we have a pretty proactive group here is there any thing we can do to stop this kind of crap. Send a mass e-mail to congress or something?

From what I have read about it in the people posting here over the last few months, the Dark Report, CAP, ASCP, and people in touch with community pathology, the deal is that the clinicians want to make the money off billing for the making of the slides/immunos/stains, plus take a cut of the pathologists diagnosis, the professional fee, or whatever you want to call it.
I don't know what the typical deal is for what percent they take from the pathologist. But I imagine that it will go something like this..."McFadden, well pay you 300K a year to sign out our GI bxs" And then they will keep everything over that 300K and split it up amongst themselves. Or they will keep a fixed percentage of every one, so that the more you sign out, the more you get paid.

This is exactly what the reference labs have been doing to us for years, and they have had no difficulty finding people eager to go work for them. It just seems a little bit lamer when its your colleagues doing it to you rather than a corporation. I bet the GI groups and Derm groups will find people also. Not everyone cares about what is fair or getting what they deserve. A lot of people just want a job where they just have to show up from 9-5, don't work weekends or nights, and don't have to deal with the stress managing the mini-empire. You know, Type B people, which pathology is full of.

A friend of mine who is getting ready to finish his GI fellowship and go work (not GI-path but GI-GI), says that at the national GI conferences there are numerous entities trying to get a hold of their specimens. He said there is a guy from the Cleveland Clinic at these meetings telling the gastros that they can't trust their local pathologists, that community pathologists don't know what they are doing. And he asks them to send all their cases to him overnight and he will have it signed out and the slides back in 1-2 days. He also says all the reference labs are repersented at these meetings begging for cases. Plus now you have consultant firms willing to set up these pod labs for the gastros with "gi-trained" pathologists for better "quality" and promising them an extra 50K in their pocket.

One thing that would help us is if the federal govt didn't make the technical preparation of the slides so lucrative. That would shake off a lot of these parasites.

 

[mcfaddens]

I totally agree with the vast ammount of type B's in our field. I just wish that more of us would take the incentive to hammer into the technical component even at a small scale to let others know that they have to compete with us, and not us compete with each other for a suboptimal postiton that they could offer. Oh well wishfull thinking.