What kind of compensation do rotation sites get??

[cbtk18]

Do most schools pay elective/selective sites? What if anything do they pay core sites? Do some schools now compensate? DO vs. MD?

What does your school do?

I am very curious.

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[DrWBD]

NYCOM supposedly gave no money to its hospital affiliates in exchange for rotation sites in the past. Traditionally this has been the case for osteopathic schools in general. I don't know if this is still true. Offshore schools, notably St. George's and Ross, compensate their clinical affiliates.

For your review:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/nyregion/05grenada.html?_r=2&ref=health&oref=slogin

 

[kopitar]

I dunno why compensation would be necessary, I would think its a wash. Yes, we are learning a great deal during rotations, but on the other hand these hospitals are getting free workers- I mean, we pretty much do all the scut work that no attendings or residents want to do right? Its a great question though, I was curious myself.

 

[Bacchus]

I think PCOM pays rotation sites. Our president, from what I remember, has said in the past it was cheaper to pay sites to host us instead of trying to keep the osteopathic hospital afloat.

 

[TeamZissou]

CCOM pays for some, how much and which ones I can't comment on.

 

[Kateb4]

LECOM pays $0. Erie has it's own hospital so it's not a problem up there, but here in Bradenton we are competing with several other schools that do pay. That means we have very little sites, and are losing them all the time. The doctors that we rotate with do get CEC's and something about higher medicare reimbursement rates if they have students for so many months out of the year.

 

[Coastie]

In the coming years, I'd avoid schools who have to farm out and pay for clinical sites. It's a bad, bad, bad thing...

Actually, I think we should probably just shutdown schools who have to take this approach. If you have to send folks out of state for clinical rotations, then you shouldn't exist as a med school. Fair enough.

 

[kopitar]

In the coming years, I'd avoid schools who have to farm out and pay for clinical sites. It's a bad, bad, bad thing...

Actually, I think we should probably just shutdown schools who have to take this approach. If you have to send folks out of state for clinical rotations, then you shouldn't exist as a med school. Fair enough.

can you expand on that?

 

[JaggerPlate]

In the coming years, I'd avoid schools who have to farm out and pay for clinical sites. It's a bad, bad, bad thing...

Actually, I think we should probably just shutdown schools who have to take this approach. If you have to send folks out of state for clinical rotations, then you shouldn't exist as a med school. Fair enough.

Ehh ... I disagree on almost all accounts here:

1. Let me preface it by saying that I respect both your opinion and the fact that you know way more about this than me.

2. If you shut down or gave up schools that paid for rotation sites, you'd create a wave of Caribbean schools that would happily pay for those sites and a glut of hospitals that would be happy to have the cash. From what I understand, it's actually an issue with rotation sites in NY. Apparently, SGU and a few others pay hospitals up there handsomely for the spots ... and it seems like the hospitals have no problem with this arrangement.

3. Be careful when you discuss sending students out of state for clinical rotations. There are two types of of schools that do this in my opinion:

a. The one that does it because they have no choice. They set up as a branch campus (etc), expanded without much of a clinical base, and need to do this to survive. I have no problem with people who dislike this model. Personally, I think it's the model of the future and you'll see WAY more of it in both the MD and DO world - what are you going to do, try to open a non-profit hospital from scratch and try to balance these astronomical costs by tuition costs and faculty physicians working in the clinic, or just piggy back off an established school and network for spots???

b. The schools that do this because they have solid reputations with a variety of hospitals and people WANT to do rotations in these areas for residency connections, establishing themselves where they want to live, etc. Take a look at KCOM for example. They are attached to a decent hospital and very busy, highly staffed faculty clinic. We send 15-20 (I think) students through rotations here each year, but it could probably be expanded to fit everyone if they wanted it that way. However, in the 120 years KCOM has been around, they've established sweet connections with popular DO rotation sites - Des Peres in MO, the DO track in MI, etc, and this is where students want to rotate, make an impression, and obtain a residency. It works well for all parties involved, and the school CHOOSES to do this. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with this model.

 

[chet]

Ehh ... I disagree on almost all accounts here:

1. Let me preface it by saying that I respect both your opinion and the fact that you know way more about this than me.

2. If you shut down or gave up schools that paid for rotation sites, you'd create a wave of Caribbean schools that would happily pay for those sites and a glut of hospitals that would be happy to have the cash. From what I understand, it's actually an issue with rotation sites in NY. Apparently, SGU and a few others pay hospitals up there handsomely for the spots ... and it seems like the hospitals have no problem with this arrangement.

3. Be careful when you discuss sending students out of state for clinical rotations. There are two types of of schools that do this in my opinion:

a. The one that does it because they have no choice. They set up as a branch campus (etc), expanded without much of a clinical base, and need to do this to survive. I have no problem with people who dislike this model. Personally, I think it's the model of the future and you'll see WAY more of it in both the MD and DO world - what are you going to do, try to open a non-profit hospital from scratch and try to balance these astronomical costs by tuition costs and faculty physicians working in the clinic, or just piggy back off an established school and network for spots???

b. The schools that do this because they have solid reputations with a variety of hospitals and people WANT to do rotations in these areas for residency connections, establishing themselves where they want to live, etc. Take a look at KCOM for example. They are attached to a decent hospital and very busy, highly staffed faculty clinic. We send 15-20 (I think) students through rotations here each year, but it could probably be expanded to fit everyone if they wanted it that way. However, in the 120 years KCOM has been around, they've established sweet connections with popular DO rotation sites - Des Peres in MO, the DO track in MI, etc, and this is where students want to rotate, make an impression, and obtain a residency. It works well for all parties involved, and the school CHOOSES to do this. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with this model.

Another example would the University of Washington. Often regarded as one of the best Medical Schools in the nation. The majority of students do there rotations out of state. I believe you are required to do at least one out of state rotation. I think the reason is because of limited space in Seattle, and their commitment to training physicians who want to work in smaller communities.

 

[ProtossCarrier]

Ehh ... I disagree on almost all accounts here:

1. Let me preface it by saying that I respect both your opinion and the fact that you know way more about this than me.

2. If you shut down or gave up schools that paid for rotation sites, you'd create a wave of Caribbean schools that would happily pay for those sites and a glut of hospitals that would be happy to have the cash. From what I understand, it's actually an issue with rotation sites in NY. Apparently, SGU and a few others pay hospitals up there handsomely for the spots ... and it seems like the hospitals have no problem with this arrangement.

3. Be careful when you discuss sending students out of state for clinical rotations. There are two types of of schools that do this in my opinion:

a. The one that does it because they have no choice. They set up as a branch campus (etc), expanded without much of a clinical base, and need to do this to survive. I have no problem with people who dislike this model. Personally, I think it's the model of the future and you'll see WAY more of it in both the MD and DO world - what are you going to do, try to open a non-profit hospital from scratch and try to balance these astronomical costs by tuition costs and faculty physicians working in the clinic, or just piggy back off an established school and network for spots???

b. The schools that do this because they have solid reputations with a variety of hospitals and people WANT to do rotations in these areas for residency connections, establishing themselves where they want to live, etc. Take a look at KCOM for example. They are attached to a decent hospital and very busy, highly staffed faculty clinic. We send 15-20 (I think) students through rotations here each year, but it could probably be expanded to fit everyone if they wanted it that way. However, in the 120 years KCOM has been around, they've established sweet connections with popular DO rotation sites - Des Peres in MO, the DO track in MI, etc, and this is where students want to rotate, make an impression, and obtain a residency. It works well for all parties involved, and the school CHOOSES to do this. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with this model.

Let us know how you feel about moving around for third year feel when you hit third year.

For the record, it's not necessary for MD students to go around and audition like this, in many cases it's even counter-productive.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Let us know how you feel about moving around for third year feel when you hit third year.

For the record, it's not necessary for MD students to go around and audition like this, in many cases it's even counter-productive.

I think you misinterpreted what I said:

1. If I chose not to move around 3rd/4th years, I can do my rotations at the hospital 200 yards from my house that is attached to my medical school.

2. Moving around to do an audition rotations =/= moving around to do core rotations. No one is forcing you to do any audition rotations if you don't want to. They are more prevalent in the DO world of 'who you know,' but I personally know DO students who matched at ACGME programs without doing an audition.

3. If I choose to move 3rd/4th years (which I will), I move to either a. a set hospital where I will do all my 3/4th years, a hospital system where yes, I will have to travel slightly to hospitals, clinics, etc, in the area.

Again, all my decision what I chose to do, and not the type of situation where you have to travel all over the place and jump through hoops just to get your 3/4 year CORE rotations done. Electives are a completely variable thing and I can't comment on individuals doing audition rotations for whatever reasons.

 

[DuxburyPembroke]

...Again, all my decision what I chose to do, and not the type of situation where you have to travel all over the place and jump through hoops just to get your 3/4 year CORE rotations done. Electives are a completely variable thing and I can't comment on individuals doing audition rotations for whatever reasons.

I'm glad that you're school allows you that option, but at some schools you do have to travel all over the place and jump through hoops just to get your core rotations done... 🙁

 

[AMEHigh]

I think you misinterpreted what I said:

1. If I chose not to move around 3rd/4th years, I can do my rotations at the hospital 200 yards from my house that is attached to my medical school.

2. Moving around to do an audition rotations =/= moving around to do core rotations. No one is forcing you to do any audition rotations if you don't want to. They are more prevalent in the DO world of 'who you know,' but I personally know DO students who matched at ACGME programs without doing an audition.

3. If I choose to move 3rd/4th years (which I will), I move to either a. a set hospital where I will do all my 3/4th years, a hospital system where yes, I will have to travel slightly to hospitals, clinics, etc, in the area.

Again, all my decision what I chose to do, and not the type of situation where you have to travel all over the place and jump through hoops just to get your 3/4 year CORE rotations done. Electives are a completely variable thing and I can't comment on individuals doing audition rotations for whatever reasons.

Ditto. Same with my school. If you want to go to another part of the state, you can. If not, you can do all your rotations very close to school. There are plenty of options and hospitals that we have available.

Just because a school gives you the option to do rotations not close to home, doesn't mean it doesn't have a solid reputation.

 

[kopitar]

I think its extremely advantageous to have the option of going to other locations. Also, it isnt just DO schools that off this; University of Nevada SOM, for example, has rotation sites not only 10 hours across the state in Las Vegas, but also in California....I would hate to have only 1 core rotation site to choose from.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I'm glad that you're school allows you that option, but at some schools you do have to travel all over the place and jump through hoops just to get your core rotations done... 🙁

Not only does this exist, but it's something that all pre-meds should be aware about when deciding between DO schools. Look at years 3/4 ... not the shiny new lecture halls and robot patients.

 

[Limvostov]

Not only does this exist, but it's something that all pre-meds should be aware about when deciding between DO schools. Look at years 3/4 ... not the shiny new lecture halls and robot patients.

👍

years 3 and 4 are quite important and if your school decides not to pay rotation sites and the rest of the schools surrounding you do... you get the leftovers. This is bad.

 

[Dr Oops]

Let us know how you feel about moving around for third year feel when you hit third year.

For the record, it's not necessary for MD students to go around and audition like this, in many cases it's even counter-productive.

your either ******ed or trolling pretty hard.

Doesnt matter your degree people do audition rotations, even MDs especially if its a competitive specialty.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

IMO, there should be a requirement that every school has a 'home' hospital where the majority of people can go through and rotate through all the core clerkships.

 

[ejay1518]

TouroCOM pays $250 a month per student.

 

[devlyyn]

I think the school should be required to have enough total spots for every student to be assured of getting their "cores" done. Even if they are spread out across the country, there should at least be enough spots. When you get the list of affiliates and there is only like 2-4 slots for maybe 2 sites it makes you really wonder where your tuition is going for years 3-4...especially when the school doesn't pay for rotations!