What makes dental school so grueling?

[burberrry]

I have relatives in this wonderous field and I have heard many a story about how dental school is a very difficult time to get through. Dental school has been compared to military bootcamp--dentists would never go through it again, but if were given the choice they would not take back the decision, hands down, because the experiences gained were invaluable. I am sure this is true--that it will be an unbelievable growing & learning experience.

However, I am wondering what makes this process so grueling? I am aware that as dental students we will complete 5 years of professional education in 4 years, but what, specifically, makes it so difficult? Is it basically solely the time commitment to studying? What other factors are involved? I am aware this is largely personal, but I am curious as to what struggles other dental students are currently facing & why they are struggling.

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[Doc Smile]

I have relatives in this wonderous field and I have heard many a story about how dental school is a very difficult time to get through. Dental school has been compared to military bootcamp--dentists would never go through it again, but if were given the choice they would not take back the decision, hands down, because the experiences gained were invaluable. I am sure this is true--that it will be an unbelievable growing & learning experience.

However, I am wondering what makes this process so grueling? I am aware that as dental students we will complete 5 years of professional education in 4 years, but what, specifically, makes it so difficult? Is it basically solely the time commitment to studying? What other factors are involved? I am aware this is largely personal, but I am curious as to what struggles other dental students are currently facing & why they are struggling.

Don't get me wrong, Dental School is still tough, but back in the day, it was more comparable to boot camp than it is now. That is primarily because the professors in the 70's and 80's were mostly military dentists who decided to go teach instead of open a practice after their commitment to the USofA was over.

Nowadays, it is difficult because you are taking 24-28 credits or so a semester. For us at IUSD, we have one 5 hour test every Friday over the past 3 weeks of material. Studying for that starts 1.5 weeks in advance and you never seem to keep up with material or always are rushin to study that one last oral facial biology lecture at 3AM on test day. On top of that, you are in lab from 1-5pm (or later) every other day doing lab projects or practicing for a competency on the horizon. Then there is the BS assignments that we get that you have to turn in. And, of course, whatever shadowing requirements you have in clinic....

I think it is safe to say, knowing that this someitmes stirs up a hornets nest, that dental school is harder than medical school for the first 2 years. At IU medical school, the first years started a month after us our first semester and finished a month before us this (our second) semester. Our semester runs from July 8th -> June 6th our first year. Next semester we start July 11th (as D2s). . . .Of course, Medical school gets harder as your progress whereas dental school tends to let off the clutch a little bit. The more you get into the clinics, the less demand on your body, mind, and soul there is; especially since you can schedule pts, take time off, and, most of all, DO dentistry.

That being said. I have learned an extraordinary amount my first year and, although it has been way harder than undergrad or anything else I have done, I never once thought of quitting nor would I take it back -- But yes, I would do it over again, if I had to.

Just my $$00.02 😀

 

[Mackchops]

Dental school is hard not because the didactic material is inherently somehow more difficult than in other professional curriculums (med, pharm, vet, etc), but because it is crammed in between your lab work. Lab (and ultimately clinic) is difficult only because you are expected to know how to do everything nearly immediately - it runs at a breakneck pace and if you start to fall behind you'll really struggle to catch back up. So, dental school isn't really hard because the material is hard, but rather because there's so freaking much of it and you need to learn it really really fast!

 

[Just Peachy]

Someone compared dental school to trying to take a drink of water out of a fire hose that's going at full blast. I think that sums it up nicely. Material overload, never feels like you have enough hours in the day to get everything done, you do the best you can to get it all in (which may or may not be good enough), and then you have to re-learn everything you learned in the first 2 years when you take boards. At least, that's been my experience for the first part of school. It is by no means fun, and I would not want to do this for any longer than I have to, but I would for sure do it again - means to an end. Can't really complain when this is the path that I have chosen. Looking forward to 3rd year!

 

[squeegeediver]

I very much agree with what everyone else has posted already. I'll add:

1. It is often very difficult to organize and prioritize all of the material that is thrown at you. You have to figure out what is very important and what is less important, because there is waaaaaay too much material for you to carefully learn every little thing.

2. Labwork can be insanely frustrating. Once you get the hang of a procedure, it becomes a lot of fun. But when you're in lab until 10 PM because you keep slightly missing the mark with your current project, that's less than enjoyable. Even worse is when you discover that you have forgotten one seemingly-insignificant detail (see 1), and therefore have to backtrack to where you were 4 hours ago.

3. If you're like me and went into dentistry in part because of your borderline-OCD tendencies, you'll soon find that these tendencies can hurt you as much as they can help you.

But, as they say, the greater the challenge, the greater the reward...

 

[7mag]

Dental school is not harder than med school... Thats just something dental student like to say when in reality they have no clue what med school is like. Yeah its tough, what do you expect? Do you think it is going to be a breeze, then you just come out poppin in implants and crowns? People just like to complain a lot is what I think. I am one those that tends to say, ok thats a lot of info but you gotta do what you gotta do. Just balls up and do it. The hardest thing to me is not all of the material, that's the easy part. The hard days are when nothing goes right with your work, you have to start over, then screw it up again, etc. But again, that's how it is learning just about anything.

 

[Doc Smile]

Dental school is not harder than med school... Thats just something dental student like to say when in reality they have no clue what med school is like. Yeah its tough, what do you expect? Do you think it is going to be a breeze, then you just come out poppin in implants and crowns? People just like to complain a lot is what I think. I am one those that tends to say, ok thats a lot of info but you gotta do what you gotta do. Just balls up and do it. The hardest thing to me is not all of the material, that's the easy part. The hard days are when nothing goes right with your work, you have to start over, then screw it up again, etc. But again, that's how it is learning just about anything.

Because you do? That just contradicts your first statement. Unless anyone has done both dental school and med school, we will never know. until then it is a matter of opinion. and Mine is as described above

 

[Doc Smile]

Dental school is not harder than med school... Thats just something dental student like to say when in reality they have no clue what med school is like. Yeah its tough, what do you expect? Do you think it is going to be a breeze, then you just come out poppin in implants and crowns? People just like to complain a lot is what I think. I am one those that tends to say, ok thats a lot of info but you gotta do what you gotta do. Just balls up and do it. The hardest thing to me is not all of the material, that's the easy part. The hard days are when nothing goes right with your work, you have to start over, then screw it up again, etc. But again, that's how it is learning just about anything.

Because you do? That just contradicts your first statement. Unless anyone has done both dental school and med school, we will never know. until then it is a matter of opinion. and Mine is as described above

 

[setupben]

Dental school is hard because you don't have enough time to do everything you are asked to do.

It's not that the classes are impossible, it is just that you have to many of them. And you have to fit in time for classwork, lab work, and home work. Which usually leaves you with no time for life.

Sometimes I even feel like there is no time to learn... lol

 

[liriano]

Having experience somewhat in both, I'll add my two cents. In med school, you can stay in the library and be at the top of your class. You don't have to be nice to your instructors, complete any projects, or do anything extracurricular (if you are so inclined). Basically, you are in almost 100% control of your GPA for the first two years in med school - you get in what you put in.

In dental school, it can be a crapshoot. You might not get along with your lab instructor (s*** happens lol). You may not have the handskills you need to get great marks on your preps. Something could go wrong during a practical where it deleteriously affects your grade ande sets your GPA back. Throw in that many of your peers are trying to specialize and the competitive nature and you can be in for a rough ride. All that being said, I'd much rather study hard for an exam than worry whether an instuctor is going to like my amalgam or not - therfore I give Dental School (for the first two years) the edge.

 

[3rdMolar]

Quantity is definitely the issue. No one class is particularly impossible; there just isn’t enough time to do it all. One thing I’d like to add, just passing is relatively easy. Excelling can be absolutely grueling. There are times where you can study what you feel is a reasonable amount or an insane amount and end up with a B either way. Last count, I think I’ve changed my study methods nine different times and I’m still looking for ways to do better.

 

[Streetwolf]

Dental school is not harder than med school... Thats just something dental student like to say when in reality they have no clue what med school is like. Yeah its tough, what do you expect? Do you think it is going to be a breeze, then you just come out poppin in implants and crowns? People just like to complain a lot is what I think. I am one those that tends to say, ok thats a lot of info but you gotta do what you gotta do. Just balls up and do it. The hardest thing to me is not all of the material, that's the easy part. The hard days are when nothing goes right with your work, you have to start over, then screw it up again, etc. But again, that's how it is learning just about anything.

I guess dental pre-clinic courses and didactic courses make school EASIER since our entire first year consisted of the EXACT SAME courses as the medical students PLUS the aforementioned dental classes. Now do you disagree?

Second year is tougher than med because we're in class (mandatory) 8-5 every day with one or more exams every week. Throw in pre-clinic courses with lab work and clinic time (SB starts in Nov of 2nd year) on top of that too.

What do the 2nd year med students do? Class (optional) from 8-3 with "closed book" (take-home) mega exams once a month.

Maybe it's different at other schools but I don't imagine med students have it tougher than we do until year 3.

 

[setupben]

3rdMolar is right, it is about time and it is also about what you want to get from the program. I think just passing would be much easier than doing well.

Of course, just passing could be scary, because then you are close to the border line, you have more free time but you also have more stress and fear of failing.

 

[flapaTron]

funny, no one has mentioned incompetent faculty.

i don't mean it as a complaint, but dealing with them can be stressful.

 

[Doc Smile]

funny, no one has mentioned incompetent faculty.

i don't mean it as a complaint, but dealing with them can be stressful.

Sometimes I dont think about it and pretend they aren't real 🙂xf🙂. . . I hate imcompetent teaching faculty. Especially those who test over the smallest little point on their powerpoints! stupid stupid stupid

 

[flapaTron]

Sometimes I dont think about it and pretend they aren't real 🙂xf🙂. . . I hate imcompetent teaching faculty. Especially those who test over the smallest little point on their powerpoints! stupid stupid stupid

that's like saying i hate wet rain. 🙄

dental faculty are definitely special people.

 

[mmasurf]

what makes dental school so hard is that they cram so much material along with labs making you have almost no time to absorb all the knowledge. aside from didactics your expected to learn how to drill so many various preparations that you sometimes have to pick and choose didactics or lab. Then comes clinic you have to see patients and you have classes inbetween then exams. Like most schools your expected to book your patients, call them up and figure out how the hell your going to graduate on time cause no one has money to pay for your implant or bridge or rct. In the middle of all this you have to make time for social life and do other stuff like research / volunteering so you can apply for specialty or gpr, yah its no college anymore!

 

[browncrack]

The other thing that makes dental school difficult is that is packed with overacheivers and lurker ortho wannabes. No teamwork or sharing of information to make life easier for everyone else. Either memorize the powerpoint or memorize the powerpoint-in detail. Hope for a copy of an old test. No one buys the book. 4-5 tests per week, every week for two years on top of 25 hours of lecture and 15 hours of supervised lab for two years. Clinic isn't as bad but then you need to go find patients for competencies and procedure volume. You can either pay for the more costly procedures or you can watch all of your graduation requirements walk over for a full mouth extraction in a single afternoon. Don't worry though, eventually a patient will show up with everything you need, maybe. You can always stay into the summer semester after your fourth year.

 

[7mag]

Ok so we can agree to disagree. I went to dental school because I wanted something easier in the short term and long term. I have a brother in med school, a sister in med school, and 5 or 6 close friends in med school and I don't think any hurdle in dental school is quite as stressful as the hurdles in medical school or a career in medicine. So we disagree you don't have to attack me for it because I could care less. Have a good one

 

[Doc Smile]

The other thing that makes dental school difficult is that is packed with overacheivers and lurker ortho wannabes. No teamwork or sharing of information to make life easier for everyone else. Either memorize the powerpoint or memorize the powerpoint-in detail. Hope for a copy of an old test. No one buys the book. 4-5 tests per week, every week for two years on top of 25 hours of lecture and 15 hours of supervised lab for two years. Clinic isn't as bad but then you need to go find patients for competencies and procedure volume. You can either pay for the more costly procedures or you can watch all of your graduation requirements walk over for a full mouth extraction in a single afternoon. Don't worry though, eventually a patient will show up with everything you need, maybe. You can always stay into the summer semester after your fourth year.

Eh. I am sorry you go to whatever school you go to. At IUSD, we have copies of all the old tests from the past 10 years. We also get all the previous years old assignments, PBL objectives, essay's, etc, etc. Plus, there are 3 or 4 of us in our class that compile information into study guides and condensed outlines to help prepare for the exams. Doesn't mean everybody aces the exam, hardly. That is because, like you said, the amt of material per test is insane. So, even with all this extra studying aid, you still cant memorize every detail of every slide - unless you are an ortho lurker.

 

[mmasurf]

Eh. I am sorry you go to whatever school you go to. At IUSD, we have copies of all the old tests from the past 10 years. We also get all the previous years old assignments, PBL objectives, essay's, etc, etc. Plus, there are 3 or 4 of us in our class that compile information into study guides and condensed outlines to help prepare for the exams. Doesn't mean everybody aces the exam, hardly. That is because, like you said, the amt of material per test is insane. So, even with all this extra studying aid, you still cant memorize every detail of every slide - unless you are an ortho lurker.

well thats at your nice IUSD school but everywhere else its competition and no teamwork. you have to remember, people who get into dental school are the overachievers and there's the 20% who will do anything to get into ortho, OS or pedo, they will never help you out and most schools dont release their exams. Med school isnt so stressful they have plenty of days off for exams and dont have to pay a penny for any patient, the amount of competencies dental school has is just insane.

 

[Doc Smile]

well thats at your nice IUSD school but everywhere else its competition and no teamwork. you have to remember, people who get into dental school are the overachievers and there's the 20% who will do anything to get into ortho, OS or pedo, they will never help you out and most schools dont release their exams. Med school isnt so stressful they have plenty of days off for exams and dont have to pay a penny for any patient, the amount of competencies dental school has is just insane.

Or extra burs, teeth, amalgam, gold solder etc etc in first $ second year. Even though that pales in comparison to the couple Gs spent getting patients to show up and stay put for boards and regional exams

 

[Just Peachy]

everywhere else its competition and no teamwork

Not true! It's not like that at all at Western, and I'm sure there are other schools that aren't all miserable environments like what you described. And thank goodness, because I think I'd go nuts if Western was like that haha.

 

[browncrack]

Good for Western. Of course, private schools are costly but apparently worth the price. Some of my classmates pay for everything over $60 for all of their patients' fees.

 

[mmasurf]

yeah dont forget the NERB or WREB panic attack when you cant find a cls3 or that srp or when they cancel on you and then you have to go crazy finding a random patient then you find out its all a trick cause they wont let you work on them till you pay double. That's for the Nerb and WREB, last time i checked MDs didn't have to pay $12000 to take the florida boards, and have fun on the exam cause they gave you that bombed out class 2 how that for stress.

 

[BrainsOut]

-

 

[The Hammer]

1. You are learning a very complex medical science that has very little to do with any other medical science. It has it's own terms that are not used in any other medical science.

2. You are having to learn how to master difficult healing arts that have an esthetic component as challenging as any master artist would endeavor and as dexterously challenging as any master surgeon would dare.

3. You are going to have to master patient psychology and learn how to effectively hid your fear and appear to have utter confidence even when you are sweating bullets

4. You are going to have to pass 2 national boards and at least one state board that are as arduous if not more so than any other discipline requires

5. You are going to have to invest significant financial resources for your education and then even more to establish a practice. Let me say this again because it bears repeating. You are going to going to be investing more money than most people ever see in a lifetime

6. You will be facing the prospect upon graduation of not only practicing this new healing art to the best of your ability (and hopefully not hurting anyone or being sued) and you are going to have to pull an acute business acumen out of the very ether because it is very doubtful that you will receive much of one during your matriculation. You are going to need a very shrewd business style the first day that you hang up your shingle.

The best part? You got four years to do all of this. If anyone ever made a movie about dental school no one would believe it👍

 

[vaanhalen]

Originally Posted by mmasurf
well thats at your nice IUSD school but everywhere else its competition and no teamwork. you have to remember, people who get into dental school are the overachievers and there's the 20% who will do anything to get into ortho, OS or pedo, they will never help you out and most schools dont release their exams. Med school isnt so stressful they have plenty of days off for exams and dont have to pay a penny for any patient, the amount of competencies dental school has is just insane.

Or extra burs, teeth, amalgam, gold solder etc etc in first $ second year. Even though that pales in comparison to the couple Gs spent getting patients to show up and stay put for boards and regional exams

I hate to make enemies but there's an awful lot of puss-itis going on in here, and it's turning into falsehoods, and this needs to be said by someone. Dental school is comparable to med school but it isn't harder. At all. In any way. It's not! It's easier. They're both hard. They both suck your soul. But dental gets easier after year two while medical gets harder every year, then it's residency (because remember EVERYONE is gunning b/c everyone is fighting for a specialty, try that on mr "20% woe is me"), and remember residency makes med school look easy. Oh and it's forever. Want to be a surgeon? General Surgery res is 5 years BEFORE YOU START YOUR SPECIALTY. Before you apply to a specialty program. The gunning doesn't stop-- it's still all about being the top guy and getting best references, there's still tiny programs to match into and way more applicants than positions. In fact it's worse every step b/c the stakes keep increasing. If you match in a 1yr program instead of a 5yr program, you take the equivalent of NDBE II every year and nothing is pass fail. Go gun 9 years post undergrad and then tell everyone how easy it is "because you don't have to pay for extra burs teeth amalgam and solder". Don't get me wrong d school is super hard and YR2 especially is a nightmare and a half, complain away. Hard? sure. Just as hard as MD? Depending on how you treat it, it can be. Esp @ say Columbia where they waste your time making you play with stethoscopes (as if you weren't already busy?). But worse than med school? MD? Zero chance. Just be happy that after you set up shop you aren't forced into the nightmare that is managed care.

 

[browncrack]

Doctors complete a residency after medical school. True, residents are slaves. However, this thread is about the school, not the residency. Go ahead and compare one school to the other but the reality is you will need to finish dental school to be a dentist. Dental school is a terrible and largely useless experience. If medical school is terrible and largely useless or even more terrible and more useless then go for our friends.

 

[Doc Smile]

I hate to make enemies but there's an awful lot of puss-itis going on in here, and it's turning into falsehoods, and this needs to be said by someone. Dental school is comparable to med school but it isn't harder. At all. In any way. It's not! It's easier. They're both hard. They both suck your soul. But dental gets easier after year two while medical gets harder every year, then it's residency (because remember EVERYONE is gunning b/c everyone is fighting for a specialty, try that on mr "20% woe is me"), and remember residency makes med school look easy. Oh and it's forever. Want to be a surgeon? General Surgery res is 5 years BEFORE YOU START YOUR SPECIALTY. Before you apply to a specialty program. The gunning doesn't stop-- it's still all about being the top guy and getting best references, there's still tiny programs to match into and way more applicants than positions. In fact it's worse every step b/c the stakes keep increasing. If you match in a 1yr program instead of a 5yr program, you take the equivalent of NDBE II every year and nothing is pass fail. Go gun 9 years post undergrad and then tell everyone how easy it is "because you don't have to pay for extra burs teeth amalgam and solder". Don't get me wrong d school is super hard and YR2 especially is a nightmare and a half, complain away. Hard? sure. Just as hard as MD? Depending on how you treat it, it can be. Esp @ say Columbia where they waste your time making you play with stethoscopes (as if you weren't already busy?). But worse than med school? MD? Zero chance. Just be happy that after you set up shop you aren't forced into the nightmare that is managed care.

Are you F-ing kidding me!? Way to jump in at a playfull jest without reading the whole thread. Here is a quote from my first statement.

Of course, Medical school gets harder as your progress whereas dental school tends to let off the clutch a little bit. The more you get into the clinics, the less demand on your body, mind, and soul there is; especially since you can schedule pts, take time off, and, most of all, DO dentistry.

And, since you seem to be a know-it-all, you have gone to both medical and dental school!? That's impressive; even though you status still says "pre-dent" and you will be attending UCLA this fall. Don't they teach you manners at BYU?

The statements you quoted had NOTHING to do with the original question the OP posed. Way to make yourself look like an a-hole as well as a huge douche. In NO way was I making an argument that dental school is harder because we have to spend money. It was highlighting a differece in stressors that med students and dent students have.

Lets not stop there:

don't let anyone fool you, you asked a direct question and deserve a real answer. med is much more stressful than dental. I have family members in MD school, DMD school, MD general surgery residency and MD neurosurgery residency at mayo, and personal friends that are a practicing everything, from nuke medicine to OD to ortho, and bottom line is everyone is smart, everyone works hard, yadda yadda but the MDs are more stressed out, plain and simple, esp. in MD school. If u like medicine most, do medicine, stay away from D school. If you're scared of the stress, do a less stressful option, just pick a spot along the stress continuum from MD to DO to PA to RN to Podiatry.... they all get paid well enough to cover a family.

So it looks like everything YOU are saying is anecdotal evidence from family and friends. At least I have the balls to admit that I don't know about med school instead of pretending like I have done both routes.

To me, from your responses, you choose the wrong career path since you salivate for MDs...

 

[7mag]

Vaanhalen,
I totally agree, this forum is full of a bunch of poonannies! I can't even believe I'm wasting time writing a post defending whether dental school is harder or not. What do you expect? Choose your career, think about the challenges it poses and just do it if you really want to do it.

And docsmile, if you want to think your life is tougher for whatever reason do it! You got it bud, you are fighting this to the end huh? This is nothing more than entertainment to me!

 

[snuffie]

dental school is hard because you cannot drop any courses or pick your own schedule. therefore, you end up being overworked and overloaded. if you can accept that--you're golden.

 

[armorshell]

But worse than med school? MD? Zero chance. Just be happy that after you set up shop you aren't forced into the nightmare that is managed care.

Yeah, dental school is worse than med school by far. Not the whole training pathway to become a physician, but the 4 year part that comes right after college? No way does MS compare.

 

[vaanhalen]

Are you F-ing kidding me!? Way to jump in at a playfull jest without reading the whole thread. Here is a quote from my first statement.



And, since you seem to be a know-it-all, you have gone to both medical and dental school!? That's impressive; even though you status still says "pre-dent" and you will be attending UCLA this fall. Don't they teach you manners at BYU?

The statements you quoted had NOTHING to do with the original question the OP posed. Way to make yourself look like an a-hole as well as a huge douche. In NO way was I making an argument that dental school is harder because we have to spend money. It was highlighting a differece in stressors that med students and dent students have.

Lets not stop there:


So it looks like everything YOU are saying is anecdotal evidence from family and friends. At least I have the balls to admit that I don't know about med school instead of pretending like I have done both routes.

To me, from your responses, you choose the wrong career path since you salivate for MDs...

This is fantastic from my perspective because it sounds like your defense is an admitted ignorance about med school whereas i have friends and family in both... Point you? Or point me. You're making my job really easy here. Either way it's pretty funny =) Come on, laugh, stop taking the internet so seriously. I certainly didn't mean to rage you out, i could have quoted from several people who posted; yours was just a funnier line. I didn't read every post b/c this thread is way too long already, and if you said the burr thing in jest then it should be water off your back. But wait, you sound really, really offended so maybe you actually meant it... ouch that sucks. No offense intended, but I disagree with you completely.

The bottom line is I don't buy into the idea that having a clinical component during didactics by default makes D school harder than MD. The whole premise is a fallacy--you're not actually comparing it to MD you're just listing reasons why the path to DDS sucks. Which is fine and dandy and relevant to the thread ("why is d school so grueling") but once u start inventing the idea u have it worse than MDs it's a joke and a pity party. Cry me a river, Lebron. Look, throwing a pity party b/c Dschool is a grueling monster is fine by me and i'll be there right with you in no time. I'm not knocking that at all. But it's not worse than MD. (and that's a good thing, not a bad thing. The idea that to be "the baddest dude" u have to have gone through the hardest suckiest experience is stupid.) The MDs have it worst, which sucks for them, and is great for you. Be happy that you can have paid off your student loans before they've even graduated, and still have the potential to out-earn them year by year WHILE doing what you love. Sounds like a win win for dentistry. But what do I know--like you said, I've only got an army of peeps in both😉

Love,

Jimmer Fredette

 

[armorshell]

This is fantastic from my perspective because it sounds like your defense is an admitted ignorance about med school whereas i have friends and family in both...

Cool story bro. Have any of them done both? Lots of us have.

The bottom line is I don't buy into the idea that having a clinical component during didactics by default makes D school harder than MD. The whole premise is a fallacy--you're not actually comparing it to MD you're just listing reasons why the path to DDS sucks.

Explain how it's a fallacy. Having 20 hours a week of didactics plus 40 additional hours per week of lab work vs. having 20 hours a week of didactics that are, maybe, 25% more difficult.

 

[Doc Smile]

Yeah, dental school is worse than med school by far. Not the whole training pathway to become a physician, but the 4 year part that comes right after college? No way does MS compare.

Thank you. Someone who has experienced both.

 

[vaanhalen]

The smart thing to do is not engage any argument with a moderator, but I'll bite anyway, and hope you won't get frustrated and use the BAN key. =) Right now I'm only trying to discuss the issue you asked me, no egos or personal vendettas. I think both of you seem like nice guys-- nothing personal.

The fallacy comes in assuming it's a fair comparison, that each has been given a fair shake, when in reality only one has been described (and incompletely to boot). It hasn't proven anything about med school, it's only described dental, and it's an incomplete description of d school at that ("do you have a clinical component" and "do you have to pay for burrs").

Anyone could just as easily use a single facet of law school to explain why it's worse than both dental and med school, and I'd call that person equally ridiculous.

It's still assuming the didactic quantity covered of each are equal, and it's also assuming the intensity of proficiency didactically required at each are equal. There's also the caliber of each student body to consider (let's assume that's equal), as well as the caliber of effort expired by each student body (probably not equal when you compare entire student bodies, and especially when you eliminate outlier schools for both med and dental, including those with AA23 and a true specialization rate above 30% ie "those outside the norm"). Now let's assume every component and stressor that isn't mentioned above is largely unimportant, just for simplicity's sake. That's still a lot to consider, and it all matters.

The reason I put value in observing a whole lot of people instead of just asking one really epic dude is it tends to be more accurate-- individual differences get levelled out. I'll trust the observations of 20 people over one. Even someone I respect like armorshell is still one person's experience, and he's an awfully small sample size. From an experimental perspective, even a group who's done both has to be tempered with someone who did the same but started with med then flipped to dental en route to OMS, ideally to cancel out ways in which med school for him was not equal to other guys who were just starting med school fresh from undergrad, and any personal biases or allegiances. It's getting really complicated just getting your controls in line. I prefer observing lots of people who did both and seeing how they are and how they changed, how they felt about it, how common it was for people to regret their decision while in school, the optimism of their classmates and the optimism of themselves, etc etc etc basically the same thing armorshell could do off memory but asking lots of people's views instead of stopping at just his, ideally to control for his unique traits and talents and the traits of the specific schools he attended, and his personal development as I'm sure the fresh grad from D school Armor has grown a lot since year 1.

This is getting really long and I have a test to study for.

The bottom line is the idea that one has a clinical and didactic simultaneous makes it "worse" is an oversimplification-- if you believe that you HAVE to also accept that UOP is the hardest dental school purely because it features a compressed schedule. At any rate I think the idea of taking med school minus any residency as a comparable match is inaccurate b/c it's a false alternative. Everyone has to do residency, so you have to include it. A med school grad with no residency can't even set up a family practice. And if armor is in his general surgery residency, I think he'll admit its pretty nasty. Maybe a realistic comparison would be the path to a general surgeon working at a hospital from med school day one to finishing rsidency and accepting his job offer, to a dentist going through 4 years of d school knowing he wants to be a GP. Both are general surgeons, one medical one dental.

 

[browncrack]

I respect your opinion. You are oversimplifying to support your conclusion prior to and regardless of facts presented. Run along now. Go swim in the shallow end.

 

[vaanhalen]

clear example of NOT oversimplification, actually. nice response though-- instead of addressing any one of the points listed you simply pretend as if you did then talk really tough. big swole over here, watch out...😉

 

[FutureDent020]

Cool story bro. Have any of them done both? Lots of us have.




Explain how it's a fallacy. Having 20 hours a week of didactics plus 40 additional hours per week of lab work vs. having 20 hours a week of didactics that are, maybe, 25% more difficult.

It's nice to have you on these boards. You play a fantastic devils advocate and your experience in both fields allows for great insight. 👍 As dental students, we always sympathize with medical students when it comes to their block exams and long, exhausting path to professionalism. The medical students always sympathize with our jam packed curriculum and mandatory attendance throughout 4 years of school. We never argue which one is harder, but rather recognize the sucky aspects within each

 

[browncrack]

clear example of NOT oversimplification, actually. nice response though-- instead of addressing any one of the points listed you simply pretend as if you did then talk really tough. big swole over here, watch out...😉

I suggest you re-read this thread. This has been beaten to death. Or, feel free to use the search function. Good luck in dental school.

 

[dentalWorks]

I dunno why this thread went off the reservation... but I'll contribute.

I don't know which school is "harder" (MD vs DDS) The few OMS I've chatted with said the medical boards (specifically USMLE1) is much harder to score well on than the dental counter part..... You gotta take this into consideration when your comparing both schools.

I believe the MD's chances for specialty heavily depends on how well they score on their 2 medical boards (USMLE 1 & 2)

 

[beeho]

such a pointless attempt to compare whose d*** is the largest/widest because mine is enormous beyond comprehension or measurable standard.

lol. anyways, i find it comforting that if i was a person in d-school that wanted to specialize but was unable to, i could fall back on general dentistry.

i've finished d1 and my brother has finished his first year in medical school. So far it seems i've had it harder. it was a bit demoralizing that i started school 3 weeks earlier than him but ended 3 weeks after he finished his first year.

[ please note that each school, dental or medical, has its own direction/curriculum. i only compared between two specific schools. ]

 

[dent555]

Dental school is a terrible and largely useless experience.

Dental school is a useless, terrible experience? I'm a firm believer in that every experience amounts to what you make of it. If you honestly want to become a dentist, dental school is where you develop your foundation for your professional career. No matter how difficult it is, I do not in any way see how that can amount to "useless." You're learning how to become a competent clinician; if it wasn't difficult, I would be concerned about the competency of my dental education.

 

[Ferccygenny]

There are about 300 seats a year available for people applying to become orthodontists, and about 1000 people apply for them every year. Tuition ranges from full-ride to 90K+ per year. Use the ADA's website to find the schools you would like to apply to, and go from there. If you are considering applying for orthodontics, you'll want to spread your applications out more than just in California...it's really really competitive to get in anywhere.