What minimum LizzyM constitutes a high stat applicant?

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i would say ~74-75 as in this is when you really get to the point where you could have a shot at any MD. a good shot? who knows
 
LizzyM is some bull. All comes down to your experiences in the medical field and helping underserved.
 
GoSkins said:
LizzyM is some bull. All comes down to your experiences in the medical field and helping underserved.
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apply with a 501/3.1 and two years in a volunteer service corps and let me know how that works out.
 
GoSkins said:
LizzyM is some bull. All comes down to your experiences in the medical field and helping underserved.
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but its not meant to be a be all end all measure? it has helped me immensely with what schools i should target and which ones i need to stay away from regardless of EC's. stats are the single most important thing in this process so having a reliable way to measure yourself against schools is very valuable. i ended up not wasting any money
 
LizzyM said:
apply with a 501/3.1 and two years in a volunteer service corps and let me know how that works out.
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Clearly you will need more experiences than only volunteering in service corps. A 501/3.1 with two years volunteering in service corps, 2 years of paid clinical experiences, and quality research will get you places.
 
GoSkins said:
Clearly you will need more experiences than only volunteering in service corps. A 501/3.1 with two years volunteering in service corps, 2 years of paid clinical experiences, and quality research will get you places.
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what are you basing this on. this is an unsupported claim
 
Lawper said:
what are you basing this on. this is an unsupported claim
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Isn't 3.1/501 a bit too low for MDs? Don't you need at least a 3.5 and a 508 to be considered for MD schools?
 
tendaichisoro said:
What is the minimum LizzyM score, one thinks, to be deemed a high-stat applicant?
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Consider that the median LizzyM for acceptees is ~68. Harvard/Stanford class schools have medians of 75 (3.9 GPA + 518 MCAT...36 on old exam). H4-ence, my rule of thumb is once you start getting into the caliber of Keck class schools, you're high stat (72= 515 or 34 on old scale + 3.8)
 
GoSkins said:
Clearly you will need more experiences than only volunteering in service corps. A 501/3.1 with two years volunteering in service corps, 2 years of paid clinical experiences, and quality research will get you places.
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Maybe LMU or ACOM, but not even at at my school. Creighton/Loyola/BU/SLU and the other service loving schools? Definitely no.

ECs get you through the door, but stats get you TO the door.
 
Goro said:
Maybe LMU or ACOM, but not even at at my school. Creighton/Loyola/BU/SLU and the other service loving schools? Definitely no.

ECs get you through the door, but stats get you TO the door.
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touche
 
CyrusHabs7695 said:
the thing that matters most in this whole process is if youre URM or not. Sad to say, but its 100% true. Someone with a 501 MCAT and is URM will receive multiple IIs and Ive witnessed it this cycle.
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Or a veteran, a legacy, or some very compelling ECs or life story. Also, someone who reinvented themselves with an SMP might very well have a cGPA of 3.1, but that's not what counts.
 
CyrusHabs7695 said:
the thing that matters most in this whole process is if youre URM or not. Sad to say, but its 100% true. Someone with a 501 MCAT and is URM will receive multiple IIs and Ive witnessed it this cycle.
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Touche. A black applicant with 3.2-3.4 GPA/500 MCAT (or old 24-26) has almost a 60% chance of acceptance, whereas an Asian or White applicant with the same stats has about a 6% and 8%, respectively, chance of acceptance to an American MD program
 
Mwooster said:
Touche. A black applicant with 3.2-3.4 GPA/500 MCAT (or old 24-26) has almost a 60% chance of acceptance, whereas an Asian or White applicant with the same stats has about a 6% and 8%, respectively, chance of acceptance to an American MD program
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Its so wrong. I have african american friends who come from higher household incomes than mine and laugh about how much slack they get cut. Im all for a URM getting chosen to interview ahead of me because they have a better record or whatever, but the fact that skin color plays a role in this process is wrong.

I dont mean to turn this into another URM debate thread thing, but I just gotta get that out of my system
 
CyrusHabs7695 said:
Im all for a URM getting chosen to interview ahead of me because they have a better record or whatever, but the fact that skin color plays a role in this process is wrong.
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The fact that skin color played a role in centuries of slavery and legalized racial oppression, leading to current, vast, racially-demarcated inequities in healthcare access and outcomes is wrong. We need Black and Latinx doctors
 
bae2017 said:
The fact that skin color played a role in centuries of slavery and legalized racial oppression, leading to vast, racially-demarcated inequities in healthcare access and outcomes is wrong. We need Black and Latinx doctors dude
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I 100% agree that those things happened are wrong, and I firmly believe that an African American or Hispanic or whatever else ethnicity constitutes URM status with high stats and better ECs than me should get accepted over me. But someone with an MCAT of 500 and a 3.3 GPA should not be sitting on 5+ IIs right now because of their skin color. Everybody wants to eliminate discrimination and racism, but in order to do that youve got to eliminate it from both sides.

I know more people are probably going to disagree with me, but I just thought Id throw my opinion out there.
 
Honestly, as someone who is a URM, I personally think that selection should be merit-based, considering academic/extracurricular performance first and foremost. Moreover, what about those minorities who aren't African American or Hispanic, nor are URMs- Asians? They suffer hugely from this too. I understand the issues at hand, and why people like me may be beneficiaries of it in selection, but objectively speaking, it should not be the case. A tit-for-tat approach to racial segregation and opportunity isn't the best way to go about it.

If accepted, no doubt I would have to live with many people viewing me as getting the position due to being an URM, rather than through working hard and doing well in my own right.
 
tendaichisoro said:
Honestly, as someone who is a URM, I personally think that selection should be merit-based, considering academic/extracurricular performance first and foremost. Moreover, what about those minorities who aren't African American or Hispanic, nor are URMs- Asians? They suffer hugely from this too. I understand the issues at hand, and why people like me may be beneficiaries of it in selection, but objectively speaking, it should not be the case. A tit-for-tat approach to racial segregation and opportunity isn't the best way to go about it.

If accepted, no doubt I would have to live with many people viewing me as getting the position due to being an URM, rather than through working hard and doing well in my own right.
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I dont believe everyone, nor even the majority would look at a URM like this. There are plenty of URMs with super high metrics that Ive seen and are deserving of having plenty of IIs.

EDIT: like yourself, I notice you have a much higher LM than me, and have absolutely no issue of you having more II than me or getting into a better school.
 
chemdoctor said:
Isn't 3.1/501 a bit too low for MDs? Don't you need at least a 3.5 and a 508 to be considered for MD schools?
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No. It's got to be a little bit lower than that. I don't think there's a definitive cut-off. Depends on the school. My stats are lower (and non URM) and over half a dozen MD IIs this cycle thus far. US News #1 ranked school in care (U of Wash) accepted someone with a 499 last year.
 
mongoose1180 said:
No. It's got to be a little bit lower than that. I don't think there's a definitive cut-off. Depends on the school. My stats are lower (and non URM) and over half a dozen MD IIs this cycle thus far. US News #1 ranked school in care (U of Wash) accepted someone with a 499 last year.
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State residence can have a huge impact as well.
 
GoSkins said:
Clearly you will need more experiences than only volunteering in service corps. A 501/3.1 with two years volunteering in service corps, 2 years of paid clinical experiences, and quality research will get you places.
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It can get you into DO but that's it. Trust me, I have similar stats.
 
CyrusHabs7695 said:
Its so wrong. I have african american friends who come from higher household incomes than mine and laugh about how much slack they get cut. Im all for a URM getting chosen to interview ahead of me because they have a better record or whatever, but the fact that skin color plays a role in this process is wrong.

I dont mean to turn this into another URM debate thread thing, but I just gotta get that out of my system
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I agree, the system is a bit flawed. I have colleagues that constitute as URM, but some of them come from extremely well off families - both parents as MDs - and these guys are milking the system landing countless interviews, some at extremely prestigious institutions. Oh well, whattyagonnado?
 
CyrusHabs7695 said:
I 100% agree that those things happened are wrong, and I firmly believe that an African American or Hispanic or whatever else ethnicity constitutes URM status with high stats and better ECs than me should get accepted over me. But someone with an MCAT of 500 and a 3.3 GPA should not be sitting on 5+ IIs right now because of their skin color. Everybody wants to eliminate discrimination and racism, but in order to do that youve got to eliminate it from both sides.

I know more people are probably going to disagree with me, but I just thought Id throw my opinion out there.
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Just do better than them in medical school and boards and beat them out when applying to residences, that's what really matters.
 
Dr. Stalker said:
I agree, the system is a bit flawed. I have colleagues that constitute as URM, but some of them come from extremely well off families - both parents as MDs - and these guys are milking the system landing countless interviews, some at extremely prestigious institutions. Oh well, whattyagonnado?
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What did I say recently about how luck plays a part in admissions beginning with when, where and to whom you were born?
 
LizzyM said:
What did I say recently about how luck plays a part in admissions beginning with when, where and to whom you were born?
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Ah, the 3 W's of medical school application process, I completely forgot about those haha! The applications I find most striking are the "odd ones out." At a school I know of with a 512 MCAT average, a non-URM, non-Legacy, regular old pre-med with the standard ECs with a 506 and a 3.61 was interviewed in September. Luck? Eh, who knows, its n = 1.
 
Dr. Stalker said:
Ah, the 3 W's of medical school application process, I completely forgot about those haha! The applications I find most striking are the "odd ones out." At a school I know of with a 512 MCAT average, a non-URM, non-Legacy, regular old pre-med with the standard ECs with a 506 and a 3.61 was interviewed in September. Luck? Eh, who knows, its n = 1.
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Sometimes it is the oddest thing... the applicant's uncle is the Dean's tennis partner or his mechanic.
 
LizzyM calculator website tells you where your LizzyM scores compared to the applicant and matriculant pool. In otherwords, it will give you a percentile and tell you how many % of applicants and matriculants have an equal or lower score to yours. From there on in, it's all subjective and you decide for yourself if your LizzyM score is good. The website even lists LizzyM scores of schools to tell you how to fare on that school in terms of numbers.
 
mongoose1180 said:
No. It's got to be a little bit lower than that. I don't think there's a definitive cut-off. Depends on the school. My stats are lower (and non URM) and over half a dozen MD IIs this cycle thus far. US News #1 ranked school in care (U of Wash) accepted someone with a 499 last year.
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Really eases my anxiety and neuroticism I must say 🙂
 
LizzyM said:
Sometimes it is the oddest thing... the applicant's uncle is the Dean's tennis partner or his mechanic.
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Wait, what?! The mechanic?! That's it, eureka! Time to volunteer non-clinically at the nearest autobody shop near my #1 school...bound to get some "networking" in 😉.
 
bae2017 said:
The fact that skin color played a role in centuries of slavery and legalized racial oppression, leading to current, vast, racially-demarcated inequities in healthcare access and outcomes is wrong. We need Black and Latinx doctors
Click to expand...

I would agree with this IF AND ONLY IF those doctors served in those relevant communities. This is not always the case.
 
Isoval said:
I would agree with this IF AND ONLY IF those doctors served in those relevant communities. This is not always the case.
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What would those communities be? Do we have to keep "those people" in segregated communities? What about appointing them to the medical school faculty of non-HBCU schools? Hiring them at the NIH? Do some people need to know their place?
 
LizzyM said:
What would those communities be? Do we have to keep "those people" in segregated communities? What about appointing them to the medical school faculty of non-HBCU schools? Hiring them at the NIH? Do some people need to know their place?
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Not necessarily.

By “those communities”, I am trying to reference communities with high black/Latin populations. I believe that we’ve generally defeated the purpose of affirmative action if the people benefitting from it do not make an attempt to revitalize the communities that caused affirmative action to become a thing in the first place.
 
Isoval said:
Not necessarily.

By “those communities”, I am trying to reference communities with high black/Latin populations. I believe that we’ve generally defeated the purpose of affirmative action if the people benefitting from it do not make an attempt to revitalize the communities that caused affirmative action to become a thing in the first place.
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As if we don't need Black and Latinx physicians to be represented throughout the entire healthcare system. As if race and identity do not impact the kinds and contents of knowledge that are produced by medical research. As if it is not important for Black and Latinx patients to be able to see physicians that look like them when they are referred out of their communities to tertiary care centers for complicated conditions.
 
Isoval said:
Not necessarily.

By “those communities”, I am trying to reference communities with high black/Latin populations. I believe that we’ve generally defeated the purpose of affirmative action if the people benefitting from it do not make an attempt to revitalize the communities that caused affirmative action to become a thing in the first place.
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Interesting that you say this, because I and many of the other URM's during the interview trail that I have talked to and the ones on these forums have expressed interest in ultimately working in communities of color during their careers. I want to work in an urban area with sizeable black and immigrant populations because those are my people, and it's important that I serve people that look like me. There are a lot of assumptions being made about URM applicants without actually knowing us and our motivations.
 
pramsotingz said:
Interesting that you say this, because I and many of the other URM's during the interview trail that I have talked to and the ones on these forums have expressed interest in ultimately working in communities of color during their careers. I want to work in an urban area with sizeable black and immigrant populations because those are my people, and it's important that I serve people that look like me. There are a lot of assumptions being made about URM applicants without actually knowing us and our motivations.
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This.

We all know that your gpa and MCAT are only one part of your application. My experiences as an URM have given me unique insight that I believe medical schools desire. As I have read many times on this forum, no one steals a seat at a school from you. A URM with lower stats getting in to a school means that they were able to successfully articulate how their experiences will make them a great doctor. I don’t think there’s much more to it.
 
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CyrusHabs7695 said:
the thing that matters most in this whole process is if youre URM or not. Sad to say, but its 100% true. Someone with a 501 MCAT and is URM will receive multiple IIs and Ive witnessed it this cycle.
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I will agree. It would leave a fowl taste in my mouth if the shoe was on the other foot. As a URM, I know *when* I am accepted to medical school, some people are going to assume I am there by affirmative action. Whether or not that is true, it is helpful knowing after living a crap-fest life (sketchy neighborhoods, parents that barely passed high school, sob story, etc...) that a school gives a little leniency, because I intend on serving where I came from. Now, for the others that are abusing the system, I am not a fan and think it is not fair. My wife (Non-URM) gets upset about this issue as well. As my grandpa and @Goro stated, life isn't fair.
 
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