What percent of doctoral students apply for a post-doc?

[livethruthis]

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I saw one statistics from APA that said 20% applied in 2007. Wondering if there is an updated statistic?
Overall, would you say postdocs are less competitive than internships?

 

[Ollie123]

Depends whether you are referring to a formal post-doc or <any> position that will provide supervision hours. I could see the former being a minority (though 20% still sounds very low), but given the vast majority of states (to my knowledge) still require some amount of post-doctoral supervision before licensure most people get some additional training.

Internship is honestly not even that competitive these days. Post-docs have always been very, very easy to get. It can be hard to find GOOD ones in exactly what you want to do especially if you have some combination of geographical restrictions, narrow sub-specialty, etc., but I have never heard of anyone with remotely decent credentials struggling to find something.

 

[WisNeuro]

I saw one statistics from APA that said 20% applied in 2007. Wondering if there is an updated statistic?
Overall, would you say postdocs are less competitive than internships?

Varies wildly depending on what specialty (e.g., neuro, rehab, etc) and whether or not it's formalized or not.

 

[livethruthis]

This is helpful. Thanks!
I just matched for internship and so my brain is used to disregarding anything that is not APA accredited. As someone who wants to keep as many doors open as possible, is doing an accredited post doc worth it?

 

[WisNeuro]

This is helpful. Thanks!
I just matched for internship and so my brain is used to disregarding anything that is not APA accredited. As someone who wants to keep as many doors open as possible, is doing an accredited post doc worth it?

Accreditation for postdoc is different than internship. First, if you ever plan on being boarded, make sure your postdoc meets those requirements. If you're not planning on boarding, look up a few states that you think you may ever end up in and make sure that it meets requirements for licensure. After that, go with the best training, including didactics, that you can get.

 

[cara susanna]

I think post doc is getting to the point where more and more people are doing them, so you may be a disadvantage if you don't complete one.

That being said, I did have an internship TD tell me during an interview (I didn't match to that site) that post docs are a scam and I shouldn't do one unless there was a particular city I wanted to live in, lol. I ended up doing one anyway and I'm really glad that I did.

 

[Seven_Costanza]

I think post doc is getting to the point where more and more people are doing them, so you may be a disadvantage if you don't complete one.

That being said, I did have an internship TD tell me during an interview (I didn't match to that site) that post docs are a scam and I shouldn't do one unless there was a particular city I wanted to live in, lol. I ended up doing one anyway and I'm really glad that I did.

Yes, there are certain states that require a formal postdoc to get licensed there. Oregon comes to mind.

 

[Sanman]

I think post doc is getting to the point where more and more people are doing them, so you may be a disadvantage if you don't complete one.

That being said, I did have an internship TD tell me during an interview (I didn't match to that site) that post docs are a scam and I shouldn't do one unless there was a particular city I wanted to live in, lol. I ended up doing one anyway and I'm really glad that I did.

I agree with your TD, but I think that ship has sailed. More people are getting one nowadays. That said, requiring another year of training at poor compensation while doing little to defend against ongoing declines in fees is not a good combination. We will be super well-trained master's level therapists if this keeps going.

 

[WisNeuro]

I agree with your TD, but I think that ship has sailed. More people are getting one nowadays. That said, requiring another year of training at poor compensation while doing little to defend against ongoing declines in fees is not a good combination. We will be super well-trained master's level therapists if this keeps going.

I somewhat agree with more generalist training, but vehemently disagree for specialized training.

 

[Sanman]

I somewhat agree with more generalist training, but vehemently disagree for specialized training.

Depends on if they will use the specialized training. If you want to do neuropysch, rehab, or just plan to work in an AMC in a specialized area sure. However, I have worked with psychologists with post-docs in various areas (neuropsych, health psych, trauma, peds) that are not working those areas. No point in forcing someone to post-doc if there is no job at the end of the tunnel to just get a license and hop over a hurdle.

 

[WisNeuro]

Depends on if they will use the specialized training. If you want to due neuropysch, rehab, or just plan to work in an AMC in a specialized area sure. However, I have worked with psychologists with post-docs in various areas (neuropsych, health psych, trauma, peds) that are not working those areas. No point in forcing someone to post-doc if there is no job at the end of the tunnel to just get a license and hop over a hurdle.

Of course, no one should be doing a 2 year postdoc in neuro if they aren't working in that arena. But, I have never met an incoming postdoc who was anywhere near ready for independent practice in neuropsychology.

 

[Sanman]

Of course, no one should be doing a 2 year postdoc in neuro if they aren't working in that arena. But, I have never met an incoming postdoc who was anywhere near ready for independent practice in neuropsychology.

I agree with you and I think neuropsych is an outlier issue here. Most are doing post-docs to get licensed and jump through the hoop. We should be fully licensed at the end of internship with neuro and a few other specialty fellowships being an option akin to fellowships in medical training. Mostly for those going into specialty areas or academics.

 

[cara susanna]

I agree with your TD, but I think that ship has sailed. More people are getting one nowadays. That said, requiring another year of training at poor compensation while doing little to defend against ongoing declines in fees is not a good combination. We will be super well-trained master's level therapists if this keeps going.

Personally I didn't feel ready to be an independent psychologist until post doc. I also was able to get the specialized training that I really wanted and that I use everyday in my actual job.

I recognize though that not everyone will be in the same place I was, and agree that extending our training and years of low wages is not a good thing as a whole.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I agree that psychology trainees should be universally license-eligible after completing internship, as even with a fellowship, there's still going to be significant on-the-job learning. For comparison's sake, it'd be interesting to know how many PGY1's or PGY2's feel ready for independent practice.

 

[foreverbull]

Overall, would you say postdocs are less competitive than internships?

This really depends on where you are applying and how many positions are available at each site. Are you applying in a saturated state where you are likely competing with a lot of other people for one formal postdoc position? Then no, I would say it is not less competitive at all.

Postdocs in my area are more affected by networking, from what I've seen, although that will also depend on the specialty/site and region. In saturated areas, knowing someone who knows someone can be the difference between getting an interview/offer and getting cut when you have many applicants/intervewees to pick from. I'd much rather encourage folks to err on the side of more is better unless you are well-connected, have a highly desired specialty, or you know there is little competition. All of those factors matter when considering how many sites to apply to.

 

[cara susanna]

Post doc felt less competitive than internship to me. And I applied to some pretty prestigious sites.

 

[depthpsych]

I somewhat agree with more generalist training, but vehemently disagree for specialized training.

Are you referring to anything besides neuropsychology?

 

[WisNeuro]

Are you referring to anything besides neuropsychology?

I'd throw rehab into that mix as well, at least.

 

[AlmostaPhD]

Is OP asking about clinical postdocs for the general purpose of licensure/specialization? I did a more research-oriented postdoc that was critical for me to develop my own research program and gain skills to be a PI (am a faculty member now). I was at an AMC and did some assessment, but was funded through an NIH fellowship for the express purpose of research. I doubt that I would have been able to transition well to a faculty position without this added training/research productivity and in fact when my current dept. (R1, but not top tier) has been hiring in clinical psych since my hire everyone brought in for interviews has been a postdoc. I suspect it's becoming pretty standard for TT jobs at research universities.