What residencies are the easiest matches?

[canadian1234]

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What cities, hospitals and specialties are the easiest to get into currently?

I have many strong points (maturity, loyalty, wisdom, experience, high level computer skills, government lobbying successes etc.) and some points that some would consider weak (old, Canadian medical school graduate, out of ordinary practice for over 10 years, alt medicine advocate etc.)

Am I correct in assuming that I should apply to the less popular programs?

Is there are disadvantage in applying to a large number of programs, popular and unpopular?

 

[Winged Scapula]

What cities, hospitals and specialties are the easiest to get into currently?

Cities: any place people don't gravitate toward - central Texas, Inland Empire, UP Michigan, middle South, or downtown urban areas

Hospitals: you apply to programs, not hospitals and it greatly depends on what specialty you choose. A hospital may be competitive, "the place to be" for one specialty, and not another.

Specialties: all specialties have some competitive locations and others that are less competitive. There are tons on threads on this very topic. But IN GENERAL (and please, don't everyone post how their Specialty X is actually very hard to get into) the following are relatively less competitive:

FM
IM
Psych
Nuc Med
Peds
Medical Genetics

I have many strong points (maturity, loyalty, wisdom, experience, high level computer skills, government lobbying successes etc.) and some points that some would consider weak (old, Canadian medical school graduate, out of ordinary practice for over 10 years, alt medicine advocate etc.)

Am I correct in assuming that I should apply to the less popular programs?

You would probably be more successful, but you should do what interests you. At least try once to get into whatever that might be.

Is there are disadvantage in applying to a large number of programs, popular and unpopular?

Two that I can see:

1) expenses
2) looking like a dilettante

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

FYI: I would be hesitant to call Central Texas a non-competitive place to be.

Texas wise, its up there. West Texas, deep southern Texas and east Texas are the less likely places.

Central Texas has Austin, DFW borders Central vs Northern, San Antonio (although some people would call it south), Houston borders central vs Gulf... Scott and White is in there too....which by many standards outside of TX sucks, but its still a popular choice for residency.

Hopefully this does not start some big discussion but I though perhaps you are not intuned with TX and I would clear things up...your spot on with the other places.

EDIT: I went back and read what you had wrote, I am going to have to hit google to even see what the Inland Empire is. And UP Michigan (the Uppers) I only learned about from interviewing in the Hand State (gotta have been in MI to get that one)...

 

[Winged Scapula]

FYI: I would be hesitant to call Central Texas a non-competitive place to be.

Texas wise, its up there. West Texas, deep southern Texas and east Texas are the less likely places.

Central Texas has Austin, DFW borders Central vs Northern, San Antonio (although some people would call it south), Houston borders central vs Gulf... Scott and White is in there too....which by many standards outside of TX sucks, but its still a popular choice for residency.

Hopefully this does not start some big discussion but I though perhaps you are not intuned with TX and I would clear things up...your spot on with the other places.

EDIT: I went back and read what you had wrote, I am going to have to hit google to even see what the Inland Empire is. And UP Michigan (the Uppers) I only learned about from interviewing in the Hand State (gotta have been in MI to get that one)...

Thanks...I was referring to places like Tyler, Temple, etc. At least from my experience, there a LOT of jobs out there for surgeons. And yes, for those of us outside of Texas (although I did live in Corpus Christi as a toddler), the location of Scott and White is less than desirable, although in residency terms I understand it to be fairly competitive. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

Sorry, I forget that "Inland Empire" may be lingo for non-Californians:

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I always thought Scott and White was a good place. It seemed like a nice hospital when I interviewed. Location wise I thought it was pretty good. Nice cost of living, close to Austin, recreational lakes, etc.


Not trying to convince anyone of anything, just random thoughts 🙂

 

[Winged Scapula]

I always thought Scott and White was a good place. It seemed like a nice hospital when I interviewed. Location wise I thought it was pretty good. Nice cost of living, close to Austin, recreational lakes, etc.


Not trying to convince anyone of anything, just random thoughts 🙂

Being close to Austin is a plus and I have lived in worse places, but again, for many people, its not at the top of their list (unless they are a Texan...in which case, you cannot convince them otherwise of the superiority of any other place) of places to live.

I'm not much interested in lakes anyway. Or anything that has to do with fishing, hunting, rowing canoes.

 

[mlw03]

to the original poster: what precisely are you career goals? by stating those you'll be able to get more specific advice. most people would agree that internal med at a community hospital is the deep South probably wouldn't be that competitive, but if you want to be a psychiatrist it doesn't do you much good. your actions should be directed towards achieving a specific goal.

 

[Blade28]

Sorry, I forget that "Inland Empire" may be lingo for non-Californians:

True Californians (i.e. those from either NorCal or SoCal, not Fresno 😉 ) call it the "IE."

 

[Winged Scapula]

True Californians (i.e. those from either NorCal or SoCal, not Fresno 😉 ) call it the "IE."

No where in between eh? Yeah, I know...Fresno, Bako and Sacto don't really count (although I HAVE lived other places in California for just as long as I lived in the SJV).

Besides, I thought YOU were from Hawaii?😕

 

[canadian1234]

to the original poster: what precisely are you career goals? by stating those you'll be able to get more specific advice. most people would agree that internal med at a community hospital is the deep South probably wouldn't be that competitive, but if you want to be a psychiatrist it doesn't do you much good. your actions should be directed towards achieving a specific goal.

Thanks so much for this and the other replies.

I am interested in psychiatry, public health or family medicine.

Is there a way of telling the popularity of a program online? e.g. the number of interviews done last year on Freida?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks so much for this and the other replies.

I am interested in psychiatry, public health or family medicine.

Is there a way of telling the popularity of a program online? e.g. the number of interviews done last year on Freida?

Its tough. You can look at at FREIDA, but know this:

- its self-report
- data may not be updated, changed or even accurate
- most places will list the number of categorical positions and the number of interviews, but they don't list the number of applications they got. So it might be sort of helpful once you got an interview to know they interview 100 people for 4 positions, but without knowing whether they received 120 or 1200 applications, its hard to see how this data would truly be helpful.

The NRMP has tables from last year's match in which you can see which programs filled, how many positions they filled, etc. This is helpful again with the caveat that you don't know why programs didn't fill or if they filled the other spots with outside of the match applicants.

I think your case is so outside of the norm of what program directors see, that to tell you which programs would be amenable to your application would be difficult at best, impossible at worst.

You can start by reading the psychiatry and FM forums here and see what programs are being talked about as being "the best" or most competitive; take that info with a grain of salt, but it will give you a good idea of programs that might not be receptive to you.

Secondly, start by going to http://www.fsmb.org and seeing which states you might not be a candidate for a license. It will be a waste of moneyto apply for residencies if you cannot get a medical license in a particular state.

Consider talking to some PDs in these fields at places you might be interested in and see what their response is. Most of the time it will be something vague, "we give all our applicants equal evaluation" so that won't be helpful but there may be some who will be honest and tell you not to waste your time applying.

Then finally, you take your chances like everyone else. No one really knows how competitive they are or how their application will be received.

 

[DiveMD]

I am interested in psychiatry, public health or family medicine.

Is there a way of telling the popularity of a program online?

Post the same question(S) @ the SDN psych, public health and FM forums.

 

[Blade28]

No where in between eh? Yeah, I know...Fresno, Bako and Sacto don't really count (although I HAVE lived other places in California for just as long as I lived in the SJV).

Besides, I thought YOU were from Hawaii?😕

Now, yes.

But born in Oakland, raised in San Francisco. 🙂

 

[raspberry009]

Thanks so much for this and the other replies.

I am interested in psychiatry, public health or family medicine.

Is there a way of telling the popularity of a program online? e.g. the number of interviews done last year on Freida?

Why not just apply to programs you would like to go to and see what happens from there? applications to residency were a lot cheaper than med school apps. You may surprise yourself, who knows! Don't limit yourself (but it does help to be realistic), that part is up to the PDs. Aim for optimism! Your stats look fine to me but my opinion really doesn't matter, the PDs opinion does matter.

 

[raspberry009]

addendum to last post: I also think that it is always good to have back up plan. personally I would apply to both.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Why not just apply to programs you would like to go to and see what happens from there? applications to residency were a lot cheaper than med school apps. You may surprise yourself, who knows! Don't limit yourself (but it does help to be realistic), that part is up to the PDs. Aim for optimism! Your stats look fine to me but my opinion really doesn't matter, the PDs opinion does matter.

You may be right, but the OP admitted in another thread that his Canadian medical license has been revoked. That is a SERIOUS problem which may make it incredibly difficult to obtain another medical license.

But as you note, its best to talk with state medical boards and PDs to get a sense of what his chances are.

 

[canadian1234]

It will be a waste of moneyto apply for residencies if you cannot get a medical license in a particular state.

.

Do you mean an educational or independant practice license or both?

I was under the impression that if you are accepted into a residency program with full disclosure of previous problems etc, it is almost automatic that the state medical board will give you an educational license in order to do the residency. Am I mistaken?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Do you mean an educational or independant practice license or both?

I was under the impression that if you are accepted into a residency program with full disclosure of previous problems etc, it is almost automatic that the state medical board will give you an educational license in order to do the residency. Am I mistaken?

You are mistaken.

One of the foremost requirements of the match contract or any contract you will sign for residency will be the ability to get a state license. If you are unable to get a license, your contract is null and void. This is true for a "training" medical license. Many programs will also require you to have obtained a full and unrestricted license to practice medicine by a certain point in your residency (usually before year 3).

Programs also have no interest in training someone who may be ineligible for a full and unrestricted license. Therefore, there is no reason why they would match someone who they know will not qualify for one...the temporary license is fine while you are in training, but I think most would agree that if you are ineligible for an unrestricted state license, they will not train you.

Programs may try and help you, but in the end, it is up to the state medical licensing board as to whether or not to give you a license. Whether or not you have matched into a residency program, is of no concern to them. Every year people are unable to start residency because they are unable to get a medical license...for most it is a temporary problem, but for others it can be a final decision by that state.

 

[gida]

FYI: I would be hesitant to call Central Texas a non-competitive place to be.

EDIT: I went back and read what you had wrote, I am going to have to hit google to even see what the Inland Empire is. And UP Michigan (the Uppers) I only learned about from interviewing in the Hand State (gotta have been in MI to get that one)...

People, an upper is a drug.

A Yooper is someone from Michigan's Upper Peninsula!!

And the only residency in the whole U.P. is a crappy FP one.

 

[JackBauERfan]

i would say family medicine or psychiatry in the midwest... not to say any of these specialties are bad, just that there are tons of programs and not enough people wanting to go into it, then add in not many folks wanting to go to midwest and you have it.

 

[buckley]

Ok, clueless foreigner, 1st-timer to the USA...why do people not want to go to the midwest? I attended iv's in Chicago and I loved the city--I mean it's different than NY but I think it's a very good city to live in to. Cleveland wasn't bad either. A lot quieter. But then again, I like quiet.

 

[Blade28]

Weather, maybe? 😕

 

[gida]

3 reasons to move to the Midwest...

1) higher reimbursement
2) lower cost of living
3) farmers' daughters


My fave 3 Midwestern cities:
1) Minneapolis
2) Milwaukee
3) Chicago

 

[Geri_Gal]

People, an upper is a drug.

A Yooper is someone from Michigan's Upper Peninsula!!

And the only residency in the whole U.P. is a crappy FP one.

Wow. A U.P. reference on SDN! By Kimberli Cox no less! 😍

Post call -- going to sleep. 😴

 

[Winged Scapula]

Wow. A U.P. reference on SDN! By Kimberli Cox no less! 😍

I have relatives in Grand Rapids, Grosse Pointe and we used to have a cottage on Crystal Lake. I've been to the UP many times.

When I interviewed at Ohio State my Michigan relatives threatened never to allow me to cross the border back into their state!

 

[Blade28]

I have relatives in Grand Rapids, Grosse Pointe and we used to have a cottage on Crystal Lake. I've been to the UP many times.

When I interviewed at Ohio State my Michigan relatives threatened never to allow me to cross the border back into their state!

So wait, you knew about the UP but not the IE?

🙂

 

[Winged Scapula]

So wait, you knew about the UP but not the IE?

🙂

I've spent a lot more time in Michigan than I have in the IE. And I would venture that the term "UP" is more commonly known around the country than IE. At least I knew what/where the Inland Empire is, just didn't realize it was referred to as IE...mostly because I never refer to it!

For me, IE is drive through country...no reason to stop except to gas up and maybe get some chow.

 

[Blade28]

For me, IE is drive through country...no reason to stop except to gas up and maybe get some chow.

Touche.

(Then again, a "drive through country" describes my drive from Oakland to Freshno. 🙂 )

 

[Winged Scapula]

Touche.

(Then again, a "drive through country" describes my drive from Oakland to Freshno. 🙂 )

What? You don't enjoy the lovely scenery along I-5 or 99?😀

 

[Blade28]

What? You don't enjoy the lovely scenery along I-5 or 99?😀

Tough to tell with all the fog emanating off the patches of crops!

 

[howelljolly]

And this is precisely why many Caribbean grads who do clinicals in the US can not get residency... In case anyone was wondering

You are mistaken.

One of the foremost requirements of the match contract or any contract you will sign for residency will be the ability to get a state license. If you are unable to get a license, your contract is null and void. This is true for a "training" medical license. Many programs will also require you to have obtained a full and unrestricted license to practice medicine by a certain point in your residency (usually before year 3).

Programs also have no interest in training someone who may be ineligible for a full and unrestricted license. Therefore, there is no reason why they would match someone who they know will not qualify for one...the temporary license is fine while you are in training, but I think most would agree that if you are ineligible for an unrestricted state license, they will not train you.

Programs may try and help you, but in the end, it is up to the state medical licensing board as to whether or not to give you a license. Whether or not you have matched into a residency program, is of no concern to them. Every year people are unable to start residency because they are unable to get a medical license...for most it is a temporary problem, but for others it can be a final decision by that state.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

And this is precisely why many Caribbean grads who do clinicals in the US can not get residency... In case anyone was wondering

Most Carib grads qualify for a medical license, esp from the "big 4". Several states are more strict (Cali, Texas, others) but they all accept the top 4 schools in the carib (SGU, Ross, SABA, and AUC). So some carib grads may have some trouble getting a spot in the US, but I don't think this is the limiting factor.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Ditto (to the above post by aPD):

most who have trouble getting a state license do so not because of the medical school they attended, but rather for personal reasons (ie, felony convictions). I have heard of no probem with the "Big 4", although as noted, California and Texas are stricter with some of the lesser known Caribbean and other foreign schools.

 

[Blade28]

Agreed. It's the thorough background and credentials check by each state's medical licensing board that's the biggest obstacle.

 

[canadian1234]

You are mistaken.

One of the foremost requirements of the match contract or any contract you will sign for residency will be the ability to get a state license. If you are unable to get a license, your contract is null and void. This is true for a "training" medical license. Many programs will also require you to have obtained a full and unrestricted license to practice medicine by a certain point in your residency (usually before year 3).

Programs also have no interest in training someone who may be ineligible for a full and unrestricted license. Therefore, there is no reason why they would match someone who they know will not qualify for one...the temporary license is fine while you are in training, but I think most would agree that if you are ineligible for an unrestricted state license, they will not train you.

Programs may try and help you, but in the end, it is up to the state medical licensing board as to whether or not to give you a license. Whether or not you have matched into a residency program, is of no concern to them. Every year people are unable to start residency because they are unable to get a medical license...for most it is a temporary problem, but for others it can be a final decision by that state.

This does make sense. Can I solve this problem by contacting the state medical board after I am matched and before I start the residency?

I see that many programs now include training in alternative/complementary medicine curriculums as evidenced by a question on Freida online. My license was revoked many years ago for practicing alt med in a restrictive province. Even at the time, many saw this as my attempt to give patients the ability to know and choose alternatives to treatments they were facing. Has the attitude toward alt/complementary/integrative med in the USA changed over the years? What is the nature of the alt med curriculum?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

This does make sense. Can I solve this problem by contacting the state medical board after I am matched and before I start the residency?

I see that many programs now include training in alternative/complementary medicine curriculums as evidenced by a question on Freida online. My license was revoked many years ago for practicing alt med in a restrictive province. Even at the time, many saw this as my attempt to give patients the ability to know and choose alternatives to treatments they were facing. Has the attitude toward alt/complementary/integrative med in the USA changed over the years? What is the nature of the alt med curriculum?

Here's the scoop:

I think you'll find that most programs are "open" to alt med ideas -- accupuncture, chiro, etc -- for minor complaints and issues. However, anyone who accepts you into a training program is going to expect you to practice within the guidelines of their program. Since, in a training program, everything you do is technically the responsibility of your supervisors, you can't practice alt med like you're used to -- similarly, DO's can't do manipulations in allopathic programs.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Winged Scapula]

As aPD notes, your residency supervisors are responsible for your actions and would likely not be receptive to the practice of alternative medicine for the majority of medical problems.

I doubt there would be any problem with offering patients information about other treatment options, but, IMHO, you must tread lightly. I do not believe that the medical community has changed much in regards to its acceptance of these practices, although certain fields and practitioners might be more open.

Meditation, yoga, music therapy, etc. have all been fairly well accepted by mainstream medicine as useful adjuncts to traditional Western medicine. You'll find proponents of acupuncture and even chiropractic in some circles. If your practice and beliefs in alternative medicine extend outside these realms, I think you'll find a fair bit of resistance. Speaking from experience, two patients I've seen recently that have refused Western medicine to treat their breast cancer have received a great deal of derision (and sadness) from the medical community.

You can look at the requirements of various state medical boards from the links here: http://www.fsmb.org and can even contact the board anonymously to ask if your previous licensure problem in Canada would make you ineligible for a US medical license in that state.

Safest tactic would be the keep the alt medicine stuff on the down-low until you are sure it would be accepted and do not attempt to actually practice any of it instead of the usual practices of physicians in your community and your specialty.

 

[Blade28]

Agreed that you have to "play the game" until you're done with residency.

 

[Finally M3]

I have relatives in Grand Rapids, Grosse Pointe and we used to have a cottage on Crystal Lake. I've been to the UP many times.

When I interviewed at Ohio State my Michigan relatives threatened never to allow me to cross the border back into their state!

Meh. I have two degrees from Michigan and really liked tOSU for residency. My wife (girlfriend at the time) was horrified when I asked her "What do you think about living in Columbus?". She's a Michigan grad as well.

 

[canadian1234]

Thanks so much. I do plan on following all the rules. I am mainly interested in knowing which programs would see my past work as a principled stand and as an asset.