What should I do? What post bacc is recommended?

[knoxsilver]

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Hello all. Basically, I think I know what I need to do, but I just wanted some other people's input before I committed. I am a rising senior have a very low GPA (3.0, had a 2.58 freshman year) at a very competitive liberal arts college. My low GPA was due to the fact that I had a suicidal roommate/best friend and I could not have time to go to class because I had to watch and take care of my roommate (not an excuse, just a reason). Luckily during this past semester I have had time to actually sit down and study very hard for the MCAT and I believe I can score in the 90th percentile (although nothing is for certain). I was a very good student prior to attending college and had great stats (11 APs all 5's, 2320 SAT, 3rd in class w/ 3.933 unweighted GPA) which enabled me to attend my current college (I know the past doesn't matter, but I just wanted to point out that I can be academically successful). I have excellent LORs, a great committee letter, and extracurriculars (300+ volunteering at acclaimed cancer hospital and underserved minority free clinic, 80+ hours of shadowing with different physicians, NCAA All American, published for research 2x as 2nd and 4th author respectively, performed research for all my college summers at large well known research institutes, competitive classical pianist, coached inner city youth with my coach for years, raised tens of thousands of dollars for child disaster victims, etc.). I believe my essay will stand out because I had a very unique medical experience which motivated me to want to become a doctor.

I know GPA is everything to med schools. I want to take a post bacc program to enhance my GPA. My question is, if money is not an issue, should I pursue a formal post bacc, a post bacc with linkages to med schools (I just want to go to a medical school, I don't really mind which one), or a DIY post bacc? I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who has gone down any of these post bacc routes to give me their two cents.

Thank you.

 

[ayylmao]

So it sounds like you took your prereqs, right, if you're planning on taking the MCAT. Do you know your BCPM gpa (science GPA)/can you calculate it? One thing to consider/think about is that DO schools don't consider math grades in calculating your science GPA(I.e. It's just a BCP GPA), and will replace grades in calculating your GPA. So if you took classes at your state school as a non degree student you could increase your GPA pretty quickly by replacing C/D/F coursework with A's. That's just for DO schools, which are easier, but if you calculate your BCPM and its under 3.0, it's a good idea to get it above this).

I'd definitely put a lot of time, effort, blood and sweat into killing the MCAT, wouldn't take it unless you're consistently scoring where you want on practice tests.

Finally, to get into MD schools, I'd look at the SMP thread. They're risky but if you're confident in your ability to succeed (gpa>3.7), they'll get you where you want to go.

That's all assuming you took your prereqs. People here are jerks so if you have any more questions and don't want to be told to do your own research, feel free to ask!

 

[ayylmao]

Also, as a rising senior I would focus on ending strong with a 4.0 fall and spring semester... Choose classes (especially science ones) that would allow you to do this! I'd put off taking your MCAT till the end of the summer when you graduate. Don't mix studying for the MCAT with school or anything else for that matter

 

[knoxsilver]

Also, as a rising senior I would focus on ending strong with a 4.0 fall and spring semester... Choose classes (especially science ones) that would allow you to do this! I'd put off taking your MCAT till the end of the summer when you graduate. Don't mix studying for the MCAT with school or anything else for that matter

Hi ayylmao! Thanks for all that information. Yes, I've finished all my prereqs. My BCPM GPA is 2.93 because of 4 C's (2 Ochems, Calc II, and Cellular Biology). Those were in my freshman and sophomore years. Yes, I'm planning on taking 3 science courses this coming fall and really am getting better at separating myself from other issues to do better in school. My question is, do SMP's give me a greater chance at getting into a medical school compared to a post bacc with a linkage (like Temple's post bacc program) if I do equally well in both (GPA>3.7, strong EC's, LORs, etc.)? Also, if I had the support of my college's committee throughout my entire med school application process regardless if I'm an alum or still enrolled, would a DIY post bacc and taking classes at a community college be faster if I just fill my semesters with say 4 classes each? Would a DIY post bacc be seen as less "rigorous" or something? And lastly, if you do not mind me asking, what is your experience with SMPs, post baccs, etc.? How are you so knowledgeable about these things? You're really a great help =]

 

[ayylmao]

I'm certainly not an expert, and neither is anyone else on this forum (unless they're an adcom). Just a low GPA premed in a similar boat!

The Temple post bac is what a lot of people would consider an SMP but I'm unsure if you actually take classes with the med students. But then again it doesn't quite matter because you'd have linkage if you get a certain GPA. But then again getting into Temple's program is 1/million so I wouldn't really put your eggs into that basket (no matter how great you perceive your story/ECs to be)

I'd really think that making sure your GPA is at a 3.0 by the time you graduate is of utmost importance.

A successful SMP program seems to pull a lot of weight with some schools (less with others) but the idea is generally that (some) schools will consider the grades you get in an SMP as more indicative of your ability to perform in med school than your undergrad grades.

a DIY post bac is cheaper and to apply to DO schools, easier (b/c of grade replacement). I'm uncertain about what kind of weight it will pull at MD schools though. From my understanding, it'll just pool with your undergraduate GPA and even with semester after semester of straight A's, your ability to bring it up .2 or even .1 will be difficult (because of all the previous credits of ~3.0 work). If you can pull your science GPA to a 3.0 by the time you graduate I'd definitely recommend an SMP. Plus, having an upward trend in your undergraduate career will great/feel great. If you're still below a 3.0 by the time you graduate, take whatever science courses as DIY, non degree student to get to a 3.0 and then apply SMP.

Sorry, I tried to answer everything but I got a little all over the place! Let me know if you need any clarification!

PS. You might consider spreading out a few of those difficult courses between your fall and spring semester if they're offered both terms...! Also I'd love to hear what your MCAT plans are. I'm personally taking 8 months to volunteer and study.

 

[knoxsilver]

I'm certainly not an expert, and neither is anyone else on this forum (unless they're an adcom). Just a low GPA premed in a similar boat!

The Temple post bac is what a lot of people would consider an SMP but I'm unsure if you actually take classes with the med students. But then again it doesn't quite matter because you'd have linkage if you get a certain GPA. But then again getting into Temple's program is 1/million so I wouldn't really put your eggs into that basket (no matter how great you perceive your story/ECs to be)

I'd really think that making sure your GPA is at a 3.0 by the time you graduate is of utmost importance.

A successful SMP program seems to pull a lot of weight with some schools (less with others) but the idea is generally that (some) schools will consider the grades you get in an SMP as more indicative of your ability to perform in med school than your undergrad grades.

a DIY post bac is cheaper and to apply to DO schools, easier (b/c of grade replacement). I'm uncertain about what kind of weight it will pull at MD schools though. From my understanding, it'll just pool with your undergraduate GPA and even with semester after semester of straight A's, your ability to bring it up .2 or even .1 will be difficult (because of all the previous credits of ~3.0 work). If you can pull your science GPA to a 3.0 by the time you graduate I'd definitely recommend an SMP. Plus, having an upward trend in your undergraduate career will great/feel great. If you're still below a 3.0 by the time you graduate, take whatever science courses as DIY, non degree student to get to a 3.0 and then apply SMP.

Sorry, I tried to answer everything but I got a little all over the place! Let me know if you need any clarification!

PS. You might consider spreading out a few of those difficult courses between your fall and spring semester if they're offered both terms...! Also I'd love to hear what your MCAT plans are. I'm personally taking 8 months to volunteer and study.

Dont worry about being all over the place. I love hearing different aspects and as always any tidbit of information is very helpful. Yes, I definitely will apply to a variety of post bacc programs. The problem with my school is because it's such a small liberal arts school I won't be able to get into many lower division classes and redo the classes I performed miserably at. Also, I need to finish my neuroscience major requirements which means I need to take several more neuropsych classes but because those count as behavioral science courses I am afraid they won't count as part of my BCPM GPA. Thus, I think at this point it's impossible to rescue my undergrad BCPM GPA because I won't be able to retake the core science classes and I still have to fulfill some major reqs. In that case, I probably won't be able to get into any SMP's or post baccs with linkages so perhaps I will retake my bad science classes as DIY and then apply to SMP as you suggested. I really do not know how competitive most post baccs are as I just recently started to consider this option. Also, I'm taking the MCAT in a few weeks. I've been preparing and studying for the past 6 months and so far feel very on track. I have no problem doing well on tests which I have the material for. Just for my bad classes I was unable to attend many lectures and lecture information wasn't often found in the texts (sometimes we didn't even have good textbooks imo) and thus my grades deteriorated. What are your plans?

 

[ayylmao]

I'm not sure about neuropsych but I believe most neuro classes are BCPM! (Neuro major here too!). I'd try to find some easy upper level neuro classes that might count for both and calculate what you'd get with A- science grades (aim for an a obviously but I'd use an a- in your calculations just as a safety net).

Have you take an MCAT all the way through (6 hours) and scored it? The reason I ask is because I'd be hesitant to take the exam without being super sure of your ability to do well (especially with a lower GPA).

My plans currently are to study over 8 months for the MCAT while doing some shadowing, some research, and retaking gen chem (my worst enemy) at a state school. I'm still considering whether or not to pursue an SMP or whether to apply DO and low level MD (expecting to probably only get DO).

SMP is still up in the air for me

 

[ayylmao]

also feel free to PM me if you want to chat more in depth about all this stuff. If you look at threads similar to yours you'll see that most of the time posting open ended questions on this forum gets the "sack up and research it yourself, I'm not your babysitter, we've answered all these questions already, blah blah blah" response.

Somehow these people are on their way to becoming physicians but so are we, so don't be discouraged like I was!

 

[ZedsDed]

To mirror what the previous poster said, SMPs with linkage are pretty difficult to get into. They generally look for >3.5+ GPAs. I would focus on the postbacc at the moment, really any postbacc will do (even DIY.) But most reputable SMPs want to see at least a year of strong academic performance before they consider you. When the time comes to look at SMPs I recommend going through the various SMP threads (i.e. Georgetown SMP 2015-2016.) Keep in mind SMPs that historically get most of their graduates into medical school may not have that ability in the near future.

As for what is BCPM, generally the easiest way to tell is by looking at what department it is under (Biology, chemistry, math, and physics.) Outside of that it get's mirky, and AMCAS tends to say "not BCPM" more often than yes.

Edit: Crushing the MCAT is a must, of course.

 

[ayylmao]

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/181694/data/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf

 

[ZedsDed]

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/181694/data/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf

And there you have it

 

[knoxsilver]

To mirror what the previous poster said, SMPs with linkage are pretty difficult to get into. They generally look for >3.5+ GPAs. I would focus on the postbacc at the moment, really any postbacc will do (even DIY.) But most reputable SMPs want to see at least a year of strong academic performance before they consider you. When the time comes to look at SMPs I recommend going through the various SMP threads (i.e. Georgetown SMP 2015-2016.) Keep in mind SMPs that historically get most of their graduates into medical school may not have that ability in the near future.

As for what is BCPM, generally the easiest way to tell is by looking at what department it is under (Biology, chemistry, math, and physics.) Outside of that it get's mirky, and AMCAS tends to say "not BCPM" more often than yes.

Edit: Crushing the MCAT is a must, of course.

Thanks for the info! Yes, I think what I'll do is probably do a formal post bacc which should help me with advising and such and then apply to both SMP's with linkages and med schools.

 

[ZedsDed]

Thanks for the info! Yes, I think what I'll do is probably do a formal post bacc which should help me with advising and such and then apply to both SMP's with linkages and med schools.

I think you may need to do an SMP (not just the ones with linkages) before matriculating into an MD school, even after doing a postbacc. That is, unless you have a killer MCAT. Just be aware this is a possibility.

 

[knoxsilver]

I think you may need to do an SMP (not just the ones with linkages) before matriculating into an MD school, even after doing a postbacc. That is, unless you have a killer MCAT. Just be aware this is a possibility.

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. The first step will be a good post bacc program. Thanks for advising =]