What to do? What to do?

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Gooble

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So, I took a few hard science courses 5 years ago as an undergrad, however, I was working full-time, and was a normal dumb college kid so the transition from liberal arts didn't go so well....

I ended up with a B- in BIO I, a D+ in BIO II, a C in CHEM I, and I withdrew from CHEM II.

I spoke with Georgetown, American, and a few other post bac programs who said I would still be eligible to apply. I have a handful of other random science/math courses that boost my math/scince gpa up to the required 3.0 mark, with an overall GPA of 3.4.

My question is, can I recover from the D+ and C? How, when looking at my transcripts, will medical school calculate my GPA? I have heard they average the classes for repeats, so what, a D+ and an A = a B-?

I'd hate to have basically 2 classes I took half a decade ago ruin my dream, but at the same time I don't want to spend $35k on a post-bac program for not?

Any insight or advice is appreciated.
 
So, I took a few hard science courses 5 years ago as an undergrad, however, I was working full-time, and was a normal dumb college kid so the transition from liberal arts didn't go so well....

I ended up with a B- in BIO I, a D+ in BIO II, a C in CHEM I, and I withdrew from CHEM II.

I spoke with Georgetown, American, and a few other post bac programs who said I would still be eligible to apply. I have a handful of other random science/math courses that boost my math/scince gpa up to the required 3.0 mark, with an overall GPA of 3.4.

My question is, can I recover from the D+ and C? How, when looking at my transcripts, will medical school calculate my GPA? I have heard they average the classes for repeats, so what, a D+ and an A = a B-?

I'd hate to have basically 2 classes I took half a decade ago ruin my dream, but at the same time I don't want to spend $35k on a post-bac program for not?

Any insight or advice is appreciated.
A few bad grades won't sink you. Take them over @ a post-bacc and get A's. Your overall GPA is pretty good and taking those classes again will increase your science GPA. Those 4 classes are definitely not a deal-breaker, just do well @ a post-bacc. The grade averaging isn't that big of a deal in the sense that and ADCOM isn't going to say, "I see your chemistry grade is averaged to a B-." It's just for computing AMCAS GPA.

FYI, DO schools take the highest of the two grades. So if you believe in the principles of osteopathic medicine, you'll get that added benefit.
 
Hopefully here I come Bryn Mawr, Georgetown, or American Post-Bac.....
 
So, I took a few hard science courses 5 years ago as an undergrad, however, I was working full-time, and was a normal dumb college kid so the transition from liberal arts didn't go so well....

I ended up with a B- in BIO I, a D+ in BIO II, a C in CHEM I, and I withdrew from CHEM II.

I agree with MaxPrime that a few bad grades isn't bad BUT, a D+ is pretty hard to do for ANY class, even when working full time. These initial trends are not good. Science classes get harder as you move up the academic ladder, and you will encounter more competition as you take more "pre-med" classes such as organic chemistry. Regardless of what your background (liberal arts, or a science major), and regardless of personal hardships, you are still expected to do well, and/or show significant improvement post-hardships.

Solid foundations in fundamental sciences helps with the first year of med school as well as on the MCAT, therefore your performance here is a good way to gauge your ability in the years to come, not to mention play a significant role in getting you into med school.

I spoke with Georgetown, American, and a few other post bac programs who said I would still be eligible to apply. I have a handful of other random science/math courses that boost my math/scince gpa up to the required 3.0 mark, with an overall GPA of 3.4.

That is good, your GPA should keep you in the game. The only concern that med schools will have will be your ability to handle challenging science courses. If you prove that you can handle pre-med courses (B or better), under FULL-TIME courseloads, then it should be good.

My question is, can I recover from the D+ and C? How, when looking at my transcripts, will medical school calculate my GPA? I have heard they average the classes for repeats, so what, a D+ and an A = a B-?

MD schools consider ALL grades. Therefore if you got a D+ the first time, and retook a class 2 more times getting C and an A, then they would count the D+, C and A grades. Calculating the GPA is the same as usual. The retakes are considered as seperate classes. For your example, assuming each class was worth 5 units, a D+ would be worth 1.3 points, an A would be worth 4.0 points. Therefore the grade points for the D+ would be 5 x 1.3 = 6.5 and the A would be 5 x 4.0 = 20. Total units is 5 + 5 = 10, so the GPA for those two classes would be the sum of grade points divided by the total units ((6.5+20)/10) which is a 2.65 GPA. Essentially a C+. Pretty much for AMCAS:

A = 4.0
A- = 3.7
B+ = 3.3
B = 3.0
B- = 2.7
C+ = 2.3
C = 2.0
C- = 1.7
D+ = 1.3
..etc.

As you can see, retaking classes for MD schools provides limited yield. This is why it is recommended that you should only retake classes which are grades D or below. Additionally retaking classes doesn't say too much about your ability beyond that of requiring at least two tries to actually get a decent grade in a class. In med school, you rarely get a second chance. Therefore it behooves everyone to do well the first time, otherwise adcoms may believe you are at risk to not perform well during the first two years of med school, not to mention not pass USMLE Step I after your second year. For science majors, and those that have a good foundation in science courses, they recommend taking more advanced classes. For instance those that didn't do too well in general chemistry could seek to redeem themselves by taking physical chemistry (general chemistry combined with calculus). This is merely an example, and I wouldn't recommend that for you until you have a solid science background. Therefore a combination of retaking courses, taking intro courses, etc may be the best way for now. However in the long run, you may want to consider upper division classes such as biochemistry and genetics, which both require a solid, yet basic understanding of biology/organic chemistry/general chemistry.


I'd hate to have basically 2 classes I took half a decade ago ruin my dream, but at the same time I don't want to spend $35k on a post-bac program for not?

Half a decade ago is not a lot in terms of med school. You will find some non-trads having taken any classes for over a decade. Half a decade is merely the average amount of time it takes for an undergrad to finish their bachelors anyway. To put things into perspective, by the time I apply to med school, my pre-med classes would be a decade old.

You will need to do well in post-bacc, and acheive a 3.5 GPA or more in ALL these classes. You should focus on upper division science classes. More importantly, you should address the issue about doing well in science classes. Before diving deeper into completing your pre-reqs. Its great that one wants to go to med school, but one also have to be above average in performance too....above average meaning getting at least a B or better in coursework. Given the amount of time that has gone by since the last time you took your science classes, it may take more effort into doing well. I'm sure many non-trads can vouch for this, going back to school isn't neccessarily like remembering how to ride a bicycle. Heck, summer vacation can "dull the blade" too.

Therefore in conclusion, figure out why you got sub-par grades in lower division science courses. Next develop new ways to do well in future science courses (e.g., B+ or better grades). In terms of resources, it will always be a costly endeavor (time and money) change careers or rehabilitate GPA, so you will have to ask youself how much med school is worth to you. GOod luck!
 
I think you are a bit harsh with the attitude. What I did in BIO II as a 21 year old college kid hardly reflects my ability as an individual. Last I checked I am a law student at one of the top law schools in the country.

Sure, maybe in terms of medical schools 5 years isn't a long time, but in terms of ages 21 and 26, they are a HUGE difference in academic maturity.

Bottom line is I didn't do well in TWO classes back when because I didn't put forth the effort like many college kids. Don't preach to me as I don't need it.

I came on here to get some informed opinions, you just stated that you are not in medical school and are still working on getting there. I hardly think it makes you qualified to make judgments on my academic abilities.


Just found this:
"Quick question for you fine folks on SDN. How is it viewed when someone (ie: myself) had a low cumulative GPA (2.7) because of supporting themselves and their family through their undergraduate life vs. a 3.7 GPA of post-bacc work (~40 quarter units worth)"

YOU are being snooty about a D+ when I was helping run a family restaurant while working full-time and being a dumb college kid, meanwhile your cumulative GPA was a 2.7. Go figure.
 
I think you are a bit harsh with the attitude. What I did in BIO II as a 21 year old college kid hardly reflects my ability as an individual. Last I checked I am a law student at one of the top law schools in the country.

I'm not sure how law school ties into this, but if i recall law school and med school are two different things. You have nothing to prove in these forums. Feel free to do a forum search, I have merely reiterated the same thing that has been said by both med school matriculants, and so forth.

Sure, maybe in terms of medical schools 5 years isn't a long time, but in terms of ages 21 and 26, they are a HUGE difference in academic maturity.

Bottom line is I didn't do well in TWO classes back when because I didn't put forth the effort like many college kids. Don't preach to me as I don't need it.

This isn't about academic maturity nor is it about effort. Your overall GPA of 3.4 implies that you put in a good amount of effort in your classes. However receiving a D+ in beginning biology implies that you need to reevaluate how you would study for science classes. Performance in science classes does not equal performance in non-science classes nor does it equal where you go to school.

I came on here to get some informed opinions, you just stated that you are not in medical school and are still working on getting there. I hardly think it makes you qualified to make judgments on my academic abilities.


Just found this:
"Quick question for you fine folks on SDN. How is it viewed when someone (ie: myself) had a low cumulative GPA (2.7) because of supporting themselves and their family through their undergraduate life vs. a 3.7 GPA of post-bacc work (~40 quarter units worth)"

YOU are being snooty about a D+ when I was helping run a family restaurant while working full-time and being a dumb college kid, meanwhile your cumulative GPA was a 2.7. Go figure.

Personally go ahead and post my threads, since it at least shows that you did forum searches. However you failed to realize that my overall GPA is actually a ~3.4 when combined with my graduate GPA. Of which I have maintained a 4.0 in graduate and medical school level classes over the past 2 years. You can focus on my 2.7 if you like, because in a year it'll be past 3.0 anyway. Feel free to post more of my old responses, as I have been in these forums for some time, and I'm sure you can dig up more old posts. I have nothing to hide, nor anything to defend. I'm doing fine in my classes thank you. Good luck!
 
I only brought them up after your attitude regarding my D+ under circumstances you don't know anything about. You were rude in your original comment.

Also, your graduate work means nothing. Those grades are inflated, so that is why I mentioned the 2.7. Personally, I could care less what your GPA is and I hope you succeed, but don't give me attitude about one poor grade when you have had a few in your day as well.

1,300 posts and a member for 5 years, yet still not in medical school. Maybe you should be doing something other than giving attitude on an internet discussion board all the time.
 
I only brought them up after your attitude regarding my D+ under circumstances you don't know anything about. You were rude in your original comment.

Also, your graduate work means nothing. Those grades are inflated, so that is why I mentioned the 2.7. Personally, I could care less what your GPA is and I hope you succeed, but don't give me attitude about one poor grade when you have had a few in your day as well.

1,300 posts and a member for 5 years, yet still not in medical school. Maybe you should be doing something other than giving attitude on an internet discussion board all the time.

I don't think anyone here including myself is giving you attitude, and as we all know its hard to even figure out what "attitude" one is giving on the internet given that everything is text-based.

But to address my 5 years on these forums, I'm actually working to do both MD/PhD degrees, so I am actually on schedule. Kinda hard to start medical school when you are working on a PhD...or any other degree for that matter. As for my graduate GPA being inflated, as I stated in my response to your PM, they were medical school classes with our 1st and 2nd year med students, in addition to graduate level electives. Its actually quite reversed for my graduate program, therefore inflation is non-existant unless you are implying med school also has inflated grades. This is due to the fact that my program was intended for Medical Scientists (MD/PhDs), hence my desire to be in this program.

Again, its up to you how you want to interpret my responses, and time in these forums. Just as we are entitled to interpret your responses and time on SDN as well.👍
 
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