What type of psychologist makes the most bank?

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Mellitus said:
What type of psychologist makes the most bank?
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Well, someone was up late thinking about their future!

There have been some past threads about how much "bank" psychologists make. You could search for key words being "industrial," "organizational," or "clinical research" psychologist.

I personally think it would be a waste of time to start this conversation all over again. It's been discussed ad nauseum.
 
Bankers make the most "bank."

1. Academics with CVs the length of Stephen King novel (via RO1s and institutional support) and/or those who develop and publish their own tests.

2. Private practice owners who have multiple providers working in their group who all kick-up to the practice. Think mafia...
 
3. Forensic neuropsychologists who have made a name for themselves and land the big whales.
 
I/O psychologists who have good connections
 
Of course there are going to be salary caps to every job, but honestly as long as it isn't minimum wage and you can afford to pay back your debt and provide for yourself and family, does the job necessarily have to be the highest paying as long as you enjoy it? Personally I'd rather make less and work harder at something I enjoyed. 🙂
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
Of course there are going to be salary caps to every job, but honestly as long as it isn't minimum wage and you can afford to pay back your debt and provide for yourself and family, does the job necessarily have to be the highest paying as long as you enjoy it? Personally I'd rather make less and work harder at something I enjoyed. 🙂
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It attitudes like this that maintain the undermarket value of psychologists...
 
erg923 said:
It attitudes like this that maintain the undermarket value of psychologists...
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And its attitudes opposite of mine that increase mental health costs for patients/clients that truly need it. People over profit any day.
 
Not if they raised insurance reimbursement rates.
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
And its attitudes opposite of mine that increase mental health costs for patients/clients that truly need it. People over profit any day.
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I don't think you understand how healthcare works in this country.
 
erg923 said:
I don't think you understand how healthcare works in this country.
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I do understand, but I don't necessarily agree with it. I respect you and your posts and I don't mean to get into an argument with you or sound hostile. I'm just saying we need to find a middle ground as a profession so we can make money and keep at least some costs down. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
And its attitudes opposite of mine that increase mental health costs for patients/clients that truly need it. People over profit any day.
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Uhm...insurance companies, gov't interference, gov't/private red tape, and socioeconomic inequity have far more impact than the provider wanting to eek out a fair wage. I'd recommend working in the real world (as a provider) before making too many jabs at what providers actually prefer. 🙄
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
Uhm...insurance companies, gov't interference, gov't/private red tape, and socioeconomic inequity have far more impact than the provider wanting to eek out a fair wage. I'd recommend working in the real world (as a provider) before making too many jabs at what providers actually prefer. 🙄
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Point well taken. I understand their is a large amount of inequality from the professional level and below.
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
Of course there are going to be salary caps to every job, but honestly as long as it isn't minimum wage and you can afford to pay back your debt and provide for yourself and family, does the job necessarily have to be the highest paying as long as you enjoy it? Personally I'd rather make less and work harder at something I enjoyed. 🙂
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Keep in mind that therapists (whether MSW, PsyD or PhD level) are already the most underpaid professionals out of any professional with a graduate degree overall. Starting salaries are already as low as 30K for MSW and we get 25K or less on internship and only a bit higher as post-docs. Starting salary after you put in 8 years post-college can be as low as 40K if you are at a community mental health center/some counseling center jobs. How much lower can it go considering that the majority of our field carries high levels of debt (150-200K for PsyD is not uncommon, and i've seen a median of 80K for the clinical PhD)?

I suspect that your mindset will change once you finish grad school and have busted your ass for 7-8 years. It's always easier to say the above when you haven't even started graduate school.
 
Back to the op's question, it would appear to me (given my limited real world experience) that specialty doesn't matter nearly as much as being business savvy. And with that being said, I haven't seen too many psychologists who have fantastic business sense.
 
CriminalPsych said:
Back to the op's question, it would appear to me (given my limited real world experience) that specialty doesn't matter nearly as much as being business savvy. And with that being said, I haven't seen too many psychologists who have fantastic business sense.
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I agree. I know one with great business sense and horrible skills as a psychologist. He also doesn't place a high value on ethics. It is a winning combo and he is worth millions.

It is a reality that makes me quite jaded. Early on, we all like to believe that working hard and being a good psychologist is directly proportional to financial rewards. Sadly, it isn't.

Dr. E
 
Millions???
 
Doctor Eliza said:
I agree. I know one with great business sense and horrible skills as a psychologist. He also doesn't place a high value on ethics. It is a winning combo and he is worth millions.

It is a reality that makes me quite jaded. Early on, we all like to believe that working hard and being a good psychologist is directly proportional to financial rewards. Sadly, it isn't.

Dr. E
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Hmm,

Knowing you as I do Dr.E, I am pretty sure I know of whom you are speaking. 😉


As for the OP,

The answer to your question is Dr. Phil.
 
erg923 said:
Millions???
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I'm at an R1 institution with several grant-funded neuropsychologists who double as forensic neuropsychologists. Millions are possible.

But yeah, most of us won't be those guys.
 
Member6523 said:
I'm at an R1 institution with several grant-funded neuropsychologists who double as forensic neuropsychologists. Millions are possible.

But yeah, most of us won't be those guys.
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But you have to be optimistic. Unlike most on SDN.😛
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
But you have to be optimistic. Unlike most on SDN.😛
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There is a fair amount of whining here because we're not just handed six figure salaries out the gate like physicians. There's money to be made if you look for it. Granted, I'm not one of the high-earners but I'm working my way towards it. Nothing wrong with aiming big while providing a service.
 
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Mellitus said:
Dr. Phil?
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You wanted to know what kind of psychologist makes the most bank. My answer is Dr. Phil or those like him. Get a tv show, wrote a book, do a guest spot on the today show. Those guys make the most bank.
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
But you have to be optimistic. Unlike most on SDN.😛
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Maybe you have to be overly optimistic because you are still applying to graduate school and have a long road ahead so you need some momentum. The rest of us that already went through our training and are doing better than most in our field (most people who post on here went to funded programs, apa internships and formal postdocs) so we don't need to hold some rosy view of the field to sustain us.

I have yet to meet anyone in this field, and I know plenty of "stars", who make millions per year or even 1 million. The people that I know who are presidents of division organizations, wrote multiple books that are required reading in graduate school/with patients, and have busy group practices are not making millions per year (they make more than enough money but not that much).
 
PHD12 said:
Maybe you have to be overly optimistic because you are still applying to graduate school and have a long road ahead so you need some momentum. The rest of us that already went through our training and are doing better than most in our field (most people who post on here went to funded programs, apa internships and formal postdocs) so we don't need to hold some rosy view of the field to sustain us.

I have yet to meet anyone in this field, and I know plenty of "stars", who make millions per year or even 1 million. The people that I know who are presidents of division organizations, wrote multiple books that are required reading in graduate school/with patients, and have busy group practices are not making millions per year (they make more than enough money but not that much).
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Agreed, although to be fair, I don't think I know anyone, regardless of their occupation, making $1 million+ annually, so psychologists certainly aren't alone in that respect (not that you were saying as much, of course).
 
AcronymAllergy said:
Agreed, although to be fair, I don't think I know anyone, regardless of their occupation, making $1 million+ annually, so psychologists certainly aren't alone in that respect (not that you were saying as much, of course).
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I know a few. However, I grew up in NY and have friends in finance.
 
Sanman said:
I know a few. However, I grew up in NY and have friends in finance.
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It depends on location. I know many people on east and west coast cities who make that kind of money, which is why the housing market near my location is insane ($2 million for a small & old 2/3 bedroom house with bidding wars to boot). Usually they are in finance, partners in big consulting firms, law firm partners in big firms, surgeons who own their own practices, tech executives and business owners. They tend to make more money in equity/bonus as opposed to salary. There is nothing special about these people. Usually they have an MBA from a good school and work very long hours.

I do think that a top organizational psychologist who opens her own consulting firm and employ other consults can make a ton of money, assuming the company has a good reputation with the private sector.
 
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PHD12 said:
I do think that a top organizational psychologist who opens her own consulting firm and employ other consults can make a ton of money, assuming the company has a good reputation with the private sector.
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Absolutely, for those that do not know, look at how Dr. Phil met Oprah. He had a jury consulting firm in Texas. He may not be the best clinician, but the guy knows how to make money.
 
PHD12 said:
It depends on location. I know many people on east and west coast cities who make that kind of money, which is why the housing market near my location is insane ($2 million for a small & old 2/3 bedroom house with bidding wars to boot). Usually they are in finance, partners in big consulting firms, law firm partners in big firms, surgeons who own their own practices, tech executives and business owners. They tend to make more money in equity/bonus as opposed to salary. There is nothing special about these people. Usually they have an MBA from a good school and work very long hours.

I do think that a top organizational psychologist who opens her own consulting firm and employ other consults can make a ton of money, assuming the company has a good reputation with the private sector.
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I'd actually say that the bolded does make them special in the sense that A) not many people (relatively speaking) are necessarily willing and/or able to do that, and B) just by virtue of their income, they're in a unique subset of the population.

In all honesty, if a psychologist got an MBA and/or developed a strong business sense, looked for multiple traditional and non-traditional income streams and methods of building their business(es), and was willing to put in very long hours, they'd likely be just as able (if not more so) to earn a very high income. Likely not strictly via clinical service delivery, but then again, a psychologist is more than "just" a therapist.

Mind you, I'm not saying that the current typical reimbursement rates for our services aren't shamefully low. Nor am I saying that it's necessarily "fair" that folks can complete programs while "doing all the right things" and end up in a $40k/year position. Just that because of all this, we're much more in need of branching out than, say, physicians.
 
Sanman said:
He may not be the best clinician, but the guy knows how to make money.
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Would rather make money in ethical ways. He's been sued so many times and had complaints against him by the board of psychology. Totally not worth all his money.
 
Doctor Eliza said:
I agree. I know one with great business sense and horrible skills as a psychologist. He also doesn't place a high value on ethics. It is a winning combo and he is worth millions.

It is a reality that makes me quite jaded. Early on, we all like to believe that working hard and being a good psychologist is directly proportional to financial rewards. Sadly, it isn't.

Dr. E
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Maybe this is wishful thinking, but I believe that these individuals ultimately pay a much higher price than anyone else does, especially when they get older and reflect back on their lives.
 
Member6523 said:
There is a fair amount of whining here because we're not just handed six figure salaries out the gate like physicians. There's money to be made if you look for it. Granted, I'm not one of the high-earners but I'm working my way towards it. Nothing wrong with aiming big while providing a service.
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This is exactly what I was going for. I'm glad someone agrees.
 
PHD12 said:
Maybe you have to be overly optimistic because you are still applying to graduate school and have a long road ahead so you need some momentum. The rest of us that already went through our training and are doing better than most in our field (most people who post on here went to funded programs, apa internships and formal postdocs) so we don't need to hold some rosy view of the field to sustain us.

I have yet to meet anyone in this field, and I know plenty of "stars", who make millions per year or even 1 million. The people that I know who are presidents of division organizations, wrote multiple books that are required reading in graduate school/with patients, and have busy group practices are not making millions per year (they make more than enough money but not that much).
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So you have to work to make money? That statement blew me away. 😱 But in all seriousness, if its not something you enjoy, then get out of it, if it is and you are ok with the pay, then stay in. That's any job especially ones that feel they aren't getting paid fairly.

EDIT: Let me make an addendum to this. There definitely needs to be more lobbying for psychologists. And I don't mean to come off as rude, sorry in advance.
 
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xXIDaShizIXx said:
So you have to work to make money? That statement blew me away. 😱 But in all seriousness, if its not something you enjoy, then get out of it, if it is and you are ok with the pay, then stay in. That's any job especially ones that feel they aren't getting paid fairly.

EDIT: Let me make an addendum to this. There definitely needs to be more lobbying for psychologists. And I don't mean to come off as rude, sorry in advance.
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Which statement? Did I say you have to work to make money as if I was surprised?
 
PHD12 said:
Which statement? Did I say you have to work to make money as if I was surprised?
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No I was just being facetious and shouldn't have, which is why I added the edit. I do realize psychologists do not get paid nearly enough for what they do. I'm sorry if I have offended you or anyone else, now lets get this thread back on track.
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
now lets get this thread back on track.
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Yeah it's tough to tell when someone is being facetious online.

Well, I think posts from yesterday summed it up pretty well and we have previous threads with links to salaries and the APA salary survey from 2009. It always seems to come down to being strategic and having good business sense. There is also general consensus that some specialties can be more lucrative, particularly forensic neuropsychology and I/O psychology. You are probably better off getting a PhD in I/O Psychology vs. clinical if you want to primarily consult to organizations (e.g., organizational behavior, restructuring, leadership development).
 
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PHD12 said:
Yeah it's tough to tell when someone is being facetious online.

Well, I think posts from yesterday summed it up pretty well and we have previous threads with links to salaries and the APA salary survey from 2009. It always seems to come down to being strategic and having good business sense. There is also general consensus that some specialties can be more lucrative, particularly forensic neuropsychology and I/O psychology. You are probably better off getting a PhD in I/O Psychology vs. clinical if you want to primarily consult to organizations.
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Even if you want to consult for law enforcement agencies (just wondering)?
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
Consult....how?

The Devil is in the details. How, what, where, etc. You need to offer something that they cannot get from someone else.
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So basically pay is based on how lucky you are with what you get? Or are their specific things you should go after?
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
Even if you want to consult for law enforcement agencies (just wondering)?
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That's a good question. I think I/O psychology is a better fit if you want to do a specific type of consulting to private/public sector companies. Some of the people i've met on the I/O side do executive coaching, CEO selection, 360 degree feedback, organizational restructuring and team development.

I think you can consult to law enforcement agencies with a doctorate in clinical psychology, but you would need to have some established credibility (e.g., established work history in forensic setting, testing expertise, publications related to forensic psychology). It would probably help to be board certified as well.
 
xXIDaShizIXx said:
So basically pay is based on how lucky you are with what you get?
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It isn't about luck at all. Short of someone being handed a practice or company, it takes a lot of hard work and often ingenuity on the part of the clinician. You need to have skills to be competitive and then you need to have the opportunity. People can make a pile of money selling igloos, raising cattle, painting houses....etc. There is no shortcut or trick to it. There are few jobs (or careers) where a person can make $100k+/yr and even fewer jobs where they can make $1m+/yr. There is no shortcut to making $$$$ as a psychologist...if there was, then everyone would do it.

ps. In regard to LEO consulting...that is a very niche market. Most officers and higher-ups will NOT trust an outsider, especially if you have a fancy degree and zero experience in an LEO related area. The most successful consultants understand LEO culture and thinking, and they typically have the experience or at least support of someone within.
 
Like I've said before, I know psychologists who do child custody evaluations and they make bank. However, it's a very stressful job.
 
Working with sex offenders often pays pretty well just given the public risks of making a wrong clinical decision.
 
PHD12 said:
I have yet to meet anyone in this field, and I know plenty of "stars", who make millions per year or even 1 million. The people that I know who are presidents of division organizations, wrote multiple books that are required reading in graduate school/with patients, and have busy group practices are not making millions per year (they make more than enough money but not that much).
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I personally know two who clear a million a year - granted I live in a major city and of the hundreds of professionals I've met, there are two. I'm not aspiring to be like them and they obviously provide more of a service than just clinical delivery. One of them basically is I/O even though his training was in clinical...
 
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