What was your Best, and Worst, ELECTIVE Rotation's...and why?

[Me_Gusta_Drugs]

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What was your BEST, and your WORST, ELECTIVE rotations, and why? Comment on nonelective's too if you want
When I say Best I mean it was an invaluable piece to your education

Im going to choose elective rotations soon and thought this thread may help students in my position. There are so many choices! Not only that, but if I put in some time and energy of my own, I can possibly set up my own rotation somewhere.


Here are some ideas to jog your noggin...

Drug information (I hear they are good)
Management rotation at the corporate level, or the district level
Elective - Critical Care
Elective - Infectious Disease
Elective - Pediatrics
Elective - Ambulatory Care-HIV/AIDS
Elective - Ambulatory Care-Oncology
Elective - Ambulatory Care-Adult Primary Care
Compounding elective
Toxicology elective
Managed Care Rotation...or a PBM rotation

On a side note....If anyone has done a cool/unique rotation, Id like to hear about it.
For example a rotation with the FDA.....or a big Pharma company (Pfizer)....or a PBM

 

[rxforlife2004]

What was your BEST, and your WORST, ELECTIVE rotations, and why? Comment on nonelective's too if you want
When I say Best I mean it was an invaluable piece to your education

Im going to choose elective rotations soon and thought this thread may help students in my position. There are so many choices! Not only that, but if I put in some time and energy of my own, I can possibly set up my own rotation somewhere.


Here are some ideas to jog your noggin...

Drug information (I hear they are good)
Management rotation at the corporate level, or the district level
Elective - Critical Care
Elective - Infectious Disease
Elective - Pediatrics
Elective - Ambulatory Care-HIV/AIDS
Elective - Ambulatory Care-Oncology
Elective - Ambulatory Care-Adult Primary Care
Compounding elective
Toxicology elective

On a side note....If anyone has done a cool/unique rotation, Id like to hear about it.
For example a rotation with the FDA.....or a big Pharma company (Pfizer)

Do infectiuous disease...Amb Care, Critical Care. Stay away from pediatric......

 

[njac]

Do infectiuous disease...Amb Care, Critical Care. Stay away from pediatric......

I think peds is very dependent upon the preceptor and the location. We have a fab peds rotation at my hospital, but a lot of that comes with who you're working with.

That set up looks pretty much like mine. I've done my internal med (inpt) and my drug info so far. Next month is an ICU/ID combo.

my internal med sucked but I did it at a local hospital, not the university hospital. I think would've learned much more if I'd done it at the university hospital.

 

[Allure]

I think it has a lot to do with who your preceptors are, that's why you should do a lot of asking around to see which sites might have good preceptors. I'm also having a really hard time picking my electives. But I think I will do at least one at a VA hospital for my required rotation. As for electives, I'm thinking between ID, DI, Oncology, Nuclear and maybe management. I want to do my required rotations first and then elective ones at the end, but that would be a bad thing in terms of applying for residency programs. I wouldn't know which program would be a better fit for me.

 

[Me_Gusta_Drugs]

Yea I agree....Preceptor makes a huge difference. Ive found the younger the preceptor...the fresher they are and more willing to teach (in general)

 

[rx28]

I do agree... its all about how good the preceptor. My best was Internal Med. I got to do IM rounds and Geriatric rounds which was fun. The second best was Critical care. Then i also liked my ambulatory clinic one cuz i actually got to go in with the residents to see patients and the residents were pretty much dependent on me for drug info..felt valued. 👍

 

[stevephhs016]

I do agree... its all about how good the preceptor. My best was Internal Med. I got to do IM rounds and Geriatric rounds which was fun. The second best was Critical care. Then i also liked my ambulatory clinic one cuz i actually got to go in with the residents to see patients and the residents were pretty much dependent on me for drug info..felt valued. 👍

Kinda going off-topic here but my question is this. I finished my first rotation a couple months ago and that was the CCU. The residents/interns there were amazing. Probably knew more about the cardiac drugs than us pharmacy students. As a result, we ended up just standing around during rounds pretty much "useless" up until the 4th-5th week (our rotations were 5 weeks long) when we actually knew what to do and how to contribute to the team.

My question is this, if the residents are dependent on you for drug info, it is info that you had to get back to them right on the "spot" or did you get back to them after you looked up the info? A lot of times, my preceptor/interns would ask me about a drug info and I would not be able to answer them on the spot. Is it through experience that we can actually do that?

To get back on topic, as I mentioned, CCU was my first rotation so it was my best yet my worst rotation so far. It was amazing because I actually learned A LOT more information compared to my P3 year. You pretty much have the same type of patients each day so over time, you knew what to look for i.e what type of medications an NSTEMI/STEMI patient needs etc..
It was also my worst because of the workload. My 5 weeks was pretty much the hospital and my room to work on projects/DI questions etc. It was pretty sad.

 

[Sevarious]

Rotations are really preceptor and location specific. You need to ask around your school and see what the senior students have to say. Honestly, on average rotations my rotations weren't that great. Some people liked me a lot, some people didn't. Some preceptors didn't care if I left early, most worked me a normal 40 hour week, and one guy wanted to make sure I put in at least 10 hour days. Instructions and goals ranged from specific to non-existent. 90%+ of the medical staff I interacted with had no idea what to do with a pharmacy student. Here's a quick rundown of my rotations.

I had a few great rotations (independent retail and a research rotation). I got along great with the preceptors and staff. I enjoyed showing up, loved working there and actually missed the people when I was gone. I even got a going away present from my independent pharmacy preceptor. I didn't learn that much on these, but they were fun.

I had some rotations like family medicine and emergency medicine, which while descent suffered from a complete and total lack of discernible instructions or objectives. I did a lot of standing around going 'duh, so what exactly am I supposed to do?' No instructions were provided. I had no idea what I was supposed to do. The medical staff didn't have any idea what to do with me. Usually no one even bothered to tell them I was coming. I did a lot of standing around being the useless 5th wheel. I mastered the art of doing water fountain rounds. I also did a lot of skipping out early on these rotations. Overall as a learning experience these were decent. Not super phenomenal, but I picked up a bunch of useful stuff.

I had two rotations (drug information and internal medicine) that probably could have been better than they were. If both the preceptor and I put more effort in, they could have been phenomenal. I consider these lost opportunities. Internal medicine was the single rotation where I learned the most. The preceptor worked me hard and grilled me daily. Painful at the time, but in the end a good experience.

My hospital rotation was terrible. I got bounced around through over a half dozen different preceptors. They claimed that I was getting a good sampling of hospital practice areas. Sometimes I got used as cheap labor. 'Fill this med cart slave boy!' Sometimes I got treated like a professional. 'Go check these IV orders.' I spent one day doing nothing but sitting in a chair asking the preceptor if I could possibly do something, only to be told there wasn't anything to do. But I had to sit there and apparently I had a bad attitude. And I spent one week with a flu so vicious that I don't even remember what was going on. Learning wise, I got pretty much nothing out of it.

My absolute worst rotation was an outpatient pharmacy setting because the guy running it decided that he hated me and would do everything in his power to make sure I was treated like absolute crap. You know its bad when even the bitchy staff pharmacist who hates everyone starts feeling sorry for you. I learned nothing except how to count down the days until it was over.

In retrospect, I would have loved an industry rotation. We also had Indian health service rotations in rather remote areas of the country that perhaps I should have asked for, but didn't. Looking back, I would have spoken to my rotation coordinator and gotten as many unusual rotations as possible. Asked for industry and government specifically. Gone to the FDA or the CDC if possible. I should have done the Indian health service too.

By now you probably already know about retail and hospital pharmacy. Do you really need to do still more retail and hospital rotations? Go for the weird and unusual.

 

[Knipps]

Go for the weird and unusual.

I plan to make the majority of mine the more obscure ones 😀

 

[Me_Gusta_Drugs]

I have heard about some of the hospital rotations where you are treated like cheap labor (putting away orders, checking expired meds etc.). What really gets me heated about that is, knowing we are paying our very expensive tuition...and not only do you not learn anything, but you waste your own time and energy doing their dirty work. Essentially paying to do someone elses work, and not learn anything.

I mean I can see that doing their dirty work is fine....SOME of the time....its give and take. But I feel if I were put on a rotation where you do alot of bitch work like that....I would want to speak up about it. Maybe talk to the director at your school? Talk to your preceptor?
Basically tell them (in a reasonable way) look...Im not only working for free....Im paying money to work for free....I want to get something out of it.

 

[xml2]

A few of my friends are being treated as techs for hospital rotations.
What a waste. The money you pay for tuition...you are being used for cheap labor. I know some retail do that, making you stand at the register for an 8 hour shift, but hospitals too!

I have heard about some of the hospital rotations where you are treated like cheap labor (putting away orders, checking expired meds etc.). What really gets me heated about that is, knowing we are paying our very expensive tuition...and not only do you not learn anything, but you waste your own time and energy doing their dirty work. Essentially paying to do someone elses work, and not learn anything.

I mean I can see that doing their dirty work is fine....SOME of the time....its give and take. But I feel if I were put on a rotation where you do alot of bitch work like that....I would want to speak up about it. Maybe talk to the director at your school? Talk to your preceptor?
Basically tell them (in a reasonable way) look...Im not only working for free....Im paying money to work for free....I want to get something out of it.

 

[Allure]

I hate retail rotation. They send their techs to a different store if someone calls off and make you work as if you're on payroll, which happened to me like every other day.

 

[Sevarious]

I mean I can see that doing their dirty work is fine....SOME of the time....its give and take. But I feel if I were put on a rotation where you do alot of bitch work like that....I would want to speak up about it. Maybe talk to the director at your school? Talk to your preceptor?
Basically tell them (in a reasonable way) look...Im not only working for free....Im paying money to work for free....I want to get something out of it.

I agree, paying for substandard rotations is pretty much a bum deal. As an aside, before we get caught up in too much self pity, its worth noting that there are other bum deals out there too. Grad school is pretty much a scam where many students get used as cheap labor sans any kind of real scientific training. And other health profession students get substandard rotations as well.

Unfortunately, I'm not really sure how to go about fixing any of the problems with pharmacy rotations. Its not as simple as just complaining to the proper authorities. Our rotation coordinator was aware of most of the problems, but correcting them was out of her control. And believe me, she would have corrected them if she could. She was hardcore like that. She actually did intervene in a few areas where situations were bad. And woe be to those who crossed her.

One problem lies in the fact that there just aren't enough preceptors for the students. If we had to cut out all the mediocre rotations, there simply wouldn't be enough. Politics is another problem. If you're being mistreated at the main hospital your school works with, there isn't a lot the rotation coordinator can do unless the problems are egregious. The risk that the rotation site may just decide that students are too much of a problem and quit participating is too high.

Another problem lies in your position as a student vis a vis your preceptor. If you complain, you run the risk that your grade will get docked. Preceptors don't like students with "negative attitudes." The best you can do is to voice your complaints on the student evaluation forms they give you and hope that things get better for the next year. No matter how crappy your rotation is, you should just grin and bear it, lest your grade suffers. This is a lesson I learned the hard way.

Finally, there are institutional problems. A lot of clinical rotations stick you out in the field with hospital staff. But as I described above, frequently those hospital staff members often have no idea what to do with you. Most of the time they aren't even told you are coming or what to do with you when you show up. They aren't responsible for your education either. Furthermore, they are not getting compensated in any way for dealing with you.

Institutional problems continue in retail and hospital settings. If they are understaffed (as most are) they don't have the necessary time to teach you. The easiest thing to do in retail is stick you on register to free up their more skilled technicians to do the actual work. The easiest thing in hospitals is to dump you on some menial project like filling med carts.

 

[Allure]

All pharmacists went through rotations when they were students. Why is it that when it's their turn to become preceptors, they just forget everything they didn't like when they were on rotations. I just don't get it. They experienced everything themselves and they should try to be better for their students, but instead...they're doing to us what were done to them years ago.

Luckily for me, I haven't had any bad preceptors yet, but they weren't great either. I guess you just have to make the best of it and be proactive.

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

I completely agree with the "go for the weird and unusual". This is the time to do it. If something sounds even remotely interesting to you, try it out. Once you're licensed, you won't necessarily have a chance to do this.

And be sure to go into these rotations with an open mind. You're undoubtedly going to come across less-than-ideal settings/rotations; just make it your priority to find a way to make the most of it. If you're at a community pharmacy and you get stuck at the register (as someone pointed out), consider yourself at the "front lines" and look at it as an opportunity to talk to the patients. On one of my rotations, the hospital DOP was so flooded with work she'd tell me to just go to the library and read Facts & Comparisons. Seriously??? Instead I spent the time hanging out with the guy who took care of purchasing/inventory/wholesalers/IV fluid ordering, etc....talked to people in the radiology dept about the JC's MM 4.10 and how it would affect them (since nuclear medicine interested me), and began projects with them. It's all about making the most of the situation.

As far as my rotations...I had a really nice variety: Administration with the VA in DC; Advanced Hospital/ID in Brownsville, TX; American Soc. of Consultant Pharmacists in Alexandria, VA; then the standard Amb Care, Internal Med, etc. back home in Florida.

I'm a firm believer in "you get out what you put in". Rotations are no different!

 

[sonv3]

I completely agree with the "go for the weird and unusual". This is the time to do it. If something sounds even remotely interesting to you, try it out. Once you're licensed, you won't necessarily have a chance to do this.

And be sure to go into these rotations with an open mind. You're undoubtedly going to come across less-than-ideal settings/rotations; just make it your priority to find a way to make the most of it. If you're at a community pharmacy and you get stuck at the register (as someone pointed out), consider yourself at the "front lines" and look at it as an opportunity to talk to the patients. On one of my rotations, the hospital DOP was so flooded with work she'd tell me to just go to the library and read Facts & Comparisons. Seriously??? Instead I spent the time hanging out with the guy who took care of purchasing/inventory/wholesalers/IV fluid ordering, etc....talked to people in the radiology dept about the JC's MM 4.10 and how it would affect them (since nuclear medicine interested me), and began projects with them. It's all about making the most of the situation.

As far as my rotations...I had a really nice variety: Administration with the VA in DC; Advanced Hospital/ID in Brownsville, TX; American Soc. of Consultant Pharmacists in Alexandria, VA; then the standard Amb Care, Internal Med, etc. back home in Florida.

I'm a firm believer in "you get out what you put in". Rotations are no different!

does it bother anyone that the rotation sites are so far apart or is it just me? how do you deal with living arrangements/travel? please share

 

[xml2]

You go to MCP Boston...

Obscure ones wont happen. your choice of rotations is limited to what they provide.

I plan to make the majority of mine the more obscure ones 😀

 

[Knipps]

You go to MCP Boston...

Obscure ones wont happen. your choice of rotations is limited to what they provide.

*sigh* I'm going to try for the most diverse opportunities available then..