What would an Adcom interviewer think if I did this?

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What I'm reading here is that there are in fact many states in which an applicant could legally do this. This would give the applicant an opportunity to file charges against the school. Am I wrong.

As to your second question, why not both?

As to your third question, I'm always having fun.


^I get it. People need a break from all that studying. 😉


Also, burden of proof is tougher to apply than many think. Unless you suspect something really egregious is going on with interviewers at that school, eh, it'd be a waste of your time. Better to keep your mind on the task at hand, such as getting into medical school. But since you've got that down already.... Also, I wouldn't recommend this approach when interviewing for residency spots either. Just like I wouldn't recommend it when interviewing for any other job.

But again, I get that online is better than a dartboard for many. 😉
 
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Yes it's a slightly misunderstood point, but there really aren't any "illegal" questions for an interviewer to ask. Asking the questions themselves is not breaking any laws. Discriminating against a federally protected group based on your answers to those questions would be. Most corporations and major institutions avoid this by making any such questions completely off limits so nobody can use them against them in a discrimination suit. That said, if they ask one of those questions and you are in a protected class, you would still have to prove that your answer directly resulted in your not being accepted in order to have any case whatsoever. My guess is that schools could easily make a case about how competitive the applicant pool is and that you were rejected for other reasons.
 
I disagree completely. I think that having a recorder would really benefit the applicant. The applicant is the one recording the conversation, and the ADCOM doesn't know. Thats a form of power. Whats nerve wracking about interviews is the one sided arbitrariness and powerlessness involved. Anything that lets you step up and feel you're exercising power over someone else will make you feel more comfortable, calm, and at ease.

You have chosen to enter this social dynamic of your own free will, presumably. If you feel uncomfortable by the position, there is no need to be in the dynamic. Additionally, since your status at an interview is "not a medical student," you can only can go up in status; you can never go down as you are already "not a medical student."
 
You have chosen to enter this social dynamic of your own free will, presumably. If you feel uncomfortable by the position, there is no need to be in the dynamic. Additionally, since your status at an interview is "not a medical student," you can only can go up in status; you can never go down as you are already "not a medical student."

That's a very interesting and mature perspective. :happy:Thank you for your insight! I feel so much better now! 🙂

I really feel this should be told to everyone at an interview, I'm sure it would alleviate their concerns. 🙈

I really hope one day I can demonstrate the level of empathy and understanding you've shown here. :clap:
 
That's a very interesting and mature perspective. :happy:Thank you for your insight! I feel so much better now! 🙂

I really feel this should be told to everyone at an interview, I'm sure it would alleviate their concerns. 🙈

I really hope one day I can demonstrate the level of empathy and understanding you've shown here. :clap:

I tell it to applicants I interview now. Those who get so caught up on hopes of what might be, instead of focusing on the moment that they are in, especially at an interview, lose the perspective
 
I tell it to applicants I interview now

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, that's definitely a pro in my book. But be careful! I think some of those statements could easily be misinterpreted! :playful:

Some might interpret "you can never go down" poorly , almost as if you're saying they're worthless:cold:!!

And "if you feel uncomfortable in the dynamic, there's no need to be in the dynamic." as something along the lines of "if you don't like it, you can **** right off" :bookworm:.

Obviously the difference is very tone dependant, but some negative nancies might even say that when you strip them of rhetoric and emotional context, they're actually the same!! :borg::bag:
 
Well, etiquette aside, it's still true. This is how it is. If you are going to be weird and suspicious and insecure about or during an interview, at any professional job interview, you will be nicely told to 'Go pound sand.' That's RL. Why would interviewing for MS be different? It's not a right anyone owes to anyone else.


In job interviews, I steer clear from anything that could possibly smell of EEOC-like violations--and b/c I believe there are hosts of other things to focus on in the process, I feel these areas are impertinent. So, such questions are unnecessary, even if they are meant to make an applicant sweat a bit. No one is perfect, and everyone has something that could be shaken a little w/o going down such roads.

Still, the whole idea of recording interviews is and will continue to be considered bizarre. I can't imagine one person in charge of hiring at any firm or organization I know that would be, "Hey dude. That's cool. Slap it down on the table and let's roll." LOL. It just isn't going to happen. If you are like most of us, the very idea of it being on on the slide will make you uncomfortable, and this in turn could mess up the interview. It's not worth it. You really have to be focused on flowing through the interview and interacting well with those interviewing you. Now, maybe the same people that can fake out Lie Detector Machines can do this and be cool. But most of us can't. Like I said, it would feel so weird to me. I'd be more comfortable walking in with a big tail of toilet paper stuck to my shoe. You feel me here?

While you are still probably funning us all, you have to admit what is reality in RL. No guarantees. So many things are not fair. Life is not necessarily fair. I have no idea how old you are or what you have been through, but that is the reality, and we all must deal with it.


But I fail to see how this is relevant to you now that you have already successfully acquired a MS seat. Again, you are probably just messing/trolling around. Whatever. But I definitely would not even think of doing such a thing when you interview later on into residency programs. If you are like most people, you will just mess yourself up. Then again, maybe not. I don't know you from Adam. Now if the feds or someone puts you up to this, whatever, but most adcoms are going to conduct themselves carefully I would think. Why would they put a potential negative impact on the school?
 
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, that's definitely a pro in my book. But be careful! I think some of those statements could easily be misinterpreted! :playful:

Some might interpret "you can never go down" poorly , almost as if you're saying they're worthless:cold:!!

And "if you feel uncomfortable in the dynamic, there's no need to be in the dynamic." as something along the lines of "if you don't like it, you can **** right off" :bookworm:.

Obviously the difference is very tone dependant, but some negative nancies might even say that when you strip them of rhetoric and emotional context, they're actually the same!! :borg::bag:

I am from New York, believe me there is never any misinterpretation due to my tone.
 
Well, etiquette aside, it's still true. This is how it is. If you are going to be weird and suspicious and insecure about or during an interview, at any professional job interview, you will be nicely told to 'Go pound sand.' That's RL. Why would interviewing for MS be different? It's not a right anyone owes to anyone else.


In job interviews, I steer clear from anything that could possibly smell of EEOC-like violations--and b/c I believe there are hosts of other things to focus on in the process, I feel these areas are impertinent. So, such questions are unnecessary, even if they are meant to make an applicant sweat a bit. No one is perfect, and everyone has something that could be shaken a little w/o going down such roads.

Still, the whole idea of recording interviews is and will continue to be considered bizarre. I can't imagine one person in charge of hiring at any firm or organization I know that would be, "Hey dude. That's cool. Slap it down on the table and let's roll." LOL. It just isn't going to happen. If you are like most of us, the very idea of it being on on the slide will make you uncomfortable, and this in turn could mess up the interview. It's not worth it. You really have to be focused on flowing through the interview and interacting well with those interviewing you. Now, maybe the same people that can fake out Lie Detector Machines can do this and be cool. But most of us can't. Like I said, it would feel so weird to me. I'd be more comfortable walking in with a big tail of toilet paper stuck to my shoe. You feel me here?

While you are still probably funning us all, you have to admit what is reality in RL. No guarantees. So many things are not fair. Life is not necessarily fair. I have no idea how old you are or what you have been through, but that is the reality, and we all must deal with it.


But I fail to see how this is relevant to you now that you have already successfully acquired a MS seat. Again, you are probably just messing/trolling around. Whatever. But I definitely would not even think of doing such a thing when you interview later on into residency programs. If you are like most people, you will just mess yourself up. Then again, maybe not. I don't know you from Adam. Now if the feds or someone puts you up to this, whatever, but most adcoms are going to conduct themselves carefully I would think. Why would they put a potential negative impact on the school?

Okay, you want my honest opinion? Obviously I wouldn't do it. It would make the interviewer uncomfortable, so no. Would I do it secretly? No, because I have no interest.

But, do I think it's wrong? No. If it's legal to record them, I don't see the problem. I don't see it being unethical either.

Do I think it would make me more unfortable? No. I can always trash it and you can just practice recording yourself to inure yourself to it. My interviews were the opposite of real or being myself.

What annoys me for real is that I wouldn't be surprised if adcoms record MMIs or rest stations or even regular interviews and no one would bat an eyelid. It would be immediately accepted. There is no balance whatsoever in this process. It lacks justice. It lacks equanimity. And yes, in a cut throat businesslike sense, medical schools have the power and can do what they want. But when any other party on this forum does something lacking fairness to better their own position along similar lines, they're lambasted. This entire forums slogan is basically "it's okay when med schools do it!". And that's my pet peeve. If ADCOMS were just normal dick's and Jane's on here, that would be one thing. But they're basically treated like minor divinities and saints, when in reality they're just old men with too much power a bit too in love with themselves. It's hypocritical.
 
But they're basically treated like minor divinities and saints, when in reality they're just old men with too much power a bit too in love with themselves. It's hypocritical.

I'm not an adcom, but I'm addressing this since I sensed some of this bitterness in your reply to my earlier comment. ("Clinical experience doesn't make you Batman.") Spending time on these boards, I've seen a few posters --usually pre-meds and medical students-- express similar frustrations. And I remember feeling the exact same way when I was in your spot. The thing is, it's really difficult to understand how valuable experience is, until you have that experience. What you see as being treated like minor divinities, I see now as a rightful additional weight being given to the words of people who have actually seen the "inner workings" of this whole process. I'm not saying you have to like it, or agree with me at all (I wouldn't have agreed when I was a student), I just wanted to point out the other side of it.
 
walked into an interview, sat down, pulled out a tape recorder and asked if they minded if I recorded the interview?

firstly, I've read/heard of some very inappropriate questions, but if asked why the recorder, I would answer I want to evaluate my performance afterward for future reference.

thoughts? Would adcoms automatically reject me, think I had mad lady-balls, or just say, "I'd rather you not record this."

Are there policies on recording the interviews? And yes, I probably would want to dissect my performance. I used to do PR and marketing. presentation counts.

Or you can learn to deflect inappropriate questions, which isn't very hard...
 
I'm not an adcom, but I'm addressing this since I sensed some of this bitterness in your reply to my earlier comment. ("Clinical experience doesn't make you Batman.") Spending time on these boards, I've seen a few posters --usually pre-meds and medical students-- express similar frustrations. And I remember feeling the exact same way when I was in your spot. The thing is, it's really difficult to understand how valuable experience is, until you have that experience. What you see as being treated like minor divinities, I see now as a rightful additional weight being given to the words of people who have actually seen the "inner workings" of this whole process. I'm not saying you have to like it, or agree with me at all (I wouldn't have agreed when I was a student), I just wanted to point out the other side of it.

Nah, the allo board posters totally know everything already...
 
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WOS, I hear you to a point, but I think you didn't really "listen" to what I said earlier. It's about focusing on what we can do, our level of fairness. I can't stop unfairness in the world. If I could, I would be a god. I can only do what I can do--inside of me. There's a point in life when you really start to get that whole Aha moment about the Serenity Prayer. It becomes more than nice words and sentiments. I think acceptance is a process--accepting things good, bad, whatever, and then focusing on what I can change. I know one thing. I can't change others, and changing the social dynamics of within many settings is pretty tough. It's about influence, but that's really about the extent of power over others.

In my life, I have had a number of people be unfair to me, b/c they wanted to get ahead or they felt threatened or whatever. It's a weird thing when someone just up and decides they don't like someone, and they really don't haven't a clue why. And if they had to think about it fully, they'd realize it had nothing to do with the person they think they don't like. It has something to do with something going on inside them. But you know how many people give a genuine, true "I'm sorry" in life when they are unfair, unjust, trippin, or just being ruled by their own insecurity? No many. I can't change them. I can only strive to be the person that says, "Hey. I don't want to be someone that can't give an honest to goodness "I'm sorry" or "Forgive me."

Do you have a clue about how much political nonsense there can be in healthcare and medicine--in the various clinical settings and departments??? I don't want to put people off, and most of them won't believe me anyway until they are in the thick of it. So, I don't discuss it. I figure people trying to get in and through MS have enough on their plate. Get ready for the real unfairness and people playing games with others to get ahead when you step into the clinical realm. You can deal with it in business to a certain degree, b/c it's not as bad as prideful mistakes and games that are played that can put people's lives in jeopardy. Also, short of that, if you work in HC and inside political forces are against someone, that negativity can be wrongly interpreted as things like stupid, careless, incompetent. I haven't had that b/c I saw the workings of people behind the scenes and just wouldn't allow for that kind of injustice. I know the truth about me and my care and competence for patients and families and so do my patients and the people that have the good sense to step back and really see. But beyond keeping the patients safe, the families calm and satisfied, patients moving in and out in a timely fashion, dotting every "i" and crossing every "t," and trying to work and play well with others, you have to get eyes in the back of your head for the few people that will really try to cut your throat in HC. Personally, I think the priority should be on the patients and families, and making sure "i's and t's" are crossed, and actually giving a crap about the people for whom you are treating and about the excellence with which one should practice. But unfortunately there are times when your time has to be divided b/c of the unfair people antics. And you do what you can on that regard and focus on the other important stuff. It's about keeping your eyes open without getting too paranoid, bitter, and negative. So people that sit on adcoms are the least of anyone's problem once someone enters the HC arena.

I mean you got into MS and hopefully are doing fine. It's too early to get bitter and negative. As much as the clinical rotations can be interesting and even fun at times, that's when you will just begin to see some things, where, if you let it, it will pi$$ you off so badly, you'll want to curse the day of acceptance and the adcoms that gave you the thumbs up for letting you in to MS. No. I am not yet a MS. PM one day, and ask me how I know these things.

But you have to keep looking at your end goal, which often means forging ahead and even putting up with some political, unfair nonsense at times. Most people have to deal with these kinds of dynamics in most fields. It's just that when you are focusing on keeping people alive or getting to optimal outcomes for patients health and wellbeing, which really is the only thing over which any of us should worry, the inner political dynamics can push you over the edge. I mean, you are already being stretched to the max to make sure you do not kill, maim, or neglect a patient or family--and all indicators and documentation has to back that up. No sense crying or getting bitter though. I have to focus on things I can change and not get sucked into the negative vortex of others, or even the misunderstood (presupposed) negative vortex of others. And I don't always have time to play investigator over who is screwing over whom. And there is one more thing you have to keep in mind. You have or will have a license and major livelihood to protect.

tl;dr: So I am saying don't get caught up in the weeds of every perceived/supposed or actual injustice, b/c you will not have time or stamina for them and the negative draw of energy they produce--especially when it comes to things over which you have very limited control; it's low yield angst. There are already enough challenges.
 
I'm not an adcom, but I'm addressing this since I sensed some of this bitterness in your reply to my earlier comment. ("Clinical experience doesn't make you Batman.") Spending time on these boards, I've seen a few posters --usually pre-meds and medical students-- express similar frustrations. And I remember feeling the exact same way when I was in your spot. The thing is, it's really difficult to understand how valuable experience is, until you have that experience. What you see as being treated like minor divinities, I see now as a rightful additional weight being given to the words of people who have actually seen the "inner workings" of this whole process. I'm not saying you have to like it, or agree with me at all (I wouldn't have agreed when I was a student), I just wanted to point out the other side of it.

A pretty accurate representation. My time on SDN predates my use of this account by a LONG time and I'd probably cringe if I went back in time and read some of my opinions back then. While it's certainly true that hierarchy can be taken too far in academic medicine (for some reason the associate dean of academic affairs didn't take it well when I accused her of intellectual dishonesty to her face back when I was an MS3), if we're talking clinical interactions, the value of experience can NOT be overstated.

It's why the arguments that get made on the allo board are often so stupid. It's not that the points that get made there aren't necessarily correct, it's that because of the rather visible inexperience of the posters* there that they don't realize they're often attacking strawmen and arguing so poorly as to be cringe-worthy.

*also because of a couple prominent *****s who make everything a left vs right political issue.
 
It's not about what you want, it's about what med schools want, and a career in Medicine is a priveledge, not a right.

Okay, you want my honest opinion? Obviously I wouldn't do it. It would make the interviewer uncomfortable, so no. Would I do it secretly? No, because I have no interest.

But, do I think it's wrong? No. If it's legal to record them, I don't see the problem. I don't see it being unethical either.

Do I think it would make me more unfortable? No. I can always trash it and you can just practice recording yourself to inure yourself to it. My interviews were the opposite of real or being myself.

What annoys me for real is that I wouldn't be surprised if adcoms record MMIs or rest stations or even regular interviews and no one would bat an eyelid. It would be immediately accepted. There is no balance whatsoever in this process. It lacks justice. It lacks equanimity. And yes, in a cut throat businesslike sense, medical schools have the power and can do what they want. But when any other party on this forum does something lacking fairness to better their own position along similar lines, they're lambasted. This entire forums slogan is basically "it's okay when med schools do it!". And that's my pet peeve. If ADCOMS were just normal dick's and Jane's on here, that would be one thing. But they're basically treated like minor divinities and saints, when in reality they're just old men with too much power a bit too in love with themselves. It's hypocritical.
 
when in reality they're just old men with too much power a bit too in love with themselves.

You do realize the blatant sexism and ageism in that statement, right? You do realize the gravity of their jobs as adcoms, right? THEY are choosing WHO will be the humans, treating other humans. And in doing so, how that will be reflected for better or worse on their institution.

I want to be a physician but I never, ever want to be an adcom and have "that" responsibility.

Sincerely, the old, female crone
 
You do realize the blatant sexism and ageism in that statement, right? You do realize the gravity of their jobs as adcoms, right? THEY are choosing WHO will be the humans, treating other humans. And in doing so, how that will be reflected for better or worse on their institution.

I want to be a physician but I never, ever want to be an adcom and have "that" responsibility.

Sincerely, the old, female crone

Many years ago, I had the rare opportunity as an undergraduate to work for the med school admissions office when things were still done on paper and was in committee meetings as essentially a file clerk. Often when discussion of particular candidate was going back and forth, The ultimately deciding question that chair asked "do you want this applicant to be your doctor?" It was the the number of votes on this question that got an applicant in the accepted, waitlisted, held or rejected pile.
 
You do realize the gravity of their jobs as adcoms, right? THEY are choosing WHO will be the humans, treating other humans. And in doing so, how that will be reflected for better or worse on their institution.

I want to be a physician but I never, ever want to be an adcom and have "that" responsibility.

+pity+
 
I'll will say what first came to mind : How the F*CK did you become a med student? It does show adcoms make mistakes

Easy, I accepted that interviewers literally exist to keep me out and approached the entire process in that direction.

Smile and suck for an hour and you're in.
 
@gonnif - thank you... for saying what I wanted to but I do remember my place and station in life right now 🙂 :bow:
 
Easy, I accepted that interviewers literally exist to keep me out and approached the entire process in that direction.

Smile and suck for an hour and you're in.

I see you are going to the head medical student, you know the one with two dirty knees.
 
I see you are going to the head medical student, you know the one with two dirty knees.

I'm more impressed by the stamina of our all important interviewers. And to think, some do it 2 to 3 times a day! Impressive.
 
I wondered the same a few months ago ... and that didn't take long.

Thank you to the admins!!! 😍 :clap: :bow:
 
I wondered the same a few months ago ... and that didn't take long.

Thank you to the admins!!! 😍 :clap: :bow:

I knew someone would fall for it. :vamp:

By the way, gullible is written on the ceiling.
 
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Personally, I've seen enough family members and patients try to "secretly" record deliveries and conversations that I bet it would be more obvious to me than you think. That's all I meant.
It isn't super obvious if you just throw your phone into record mode in your pocket and carry on conversation as usual. Trust me, when you're negotiating contracts, it's a pretty great thing to do.

But then again, this is an interview, not a contract negotiation, so choose wisely. Even if something that upsets you was said, pursuing it legally might not be a great idea, as it'll pretty much burn your chances of attending med school to the ground.
 
Personally, I've seen enough family members and patients try to "secretly" record deliveries and conversations that I bet it would be more obvious to me than you think. That's all I meant.

To be fair, this could easily be done with any smartphone in someone's pocket with free apps. You would have no way of knowing. Voice takes little memory so they could start recording before they were called in. And they would be able to get every word if they are familiar with signal processing
 
It shows eccentricity, not confidence. Medical Bear does not approve.
 
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