What would you do if you don't get in?

[iamlost]

I am sort of in a confusion.

It seems it's damn hard to get into any medical school - this is what I conclude from all these messages posted by these,who to me seem like smart and hard working students asking about their chances of getting into med schools. I am going to be a sophomore at NU this coming year, and I haven't taken MCAT and bio and I completed only 1st quarter of orgo; so I don't know how difficult the MCAT is and how competitive it is to get into a med school(first handedly I mean, but as I told you I figured it's pretty hard) Plus, I am Asian, being which puts me at disadvantage; so I imagine it's going to be more difficult for me.

So I am doubting whether to even try to goto med school, and if I try and I don't get in, what can I do? What are you guys, those of you who are applying this year do if you guys don't get in?

I am not trying to start you guys to lose confidence; good luck to all of you, I mean it sincerely.

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[Dr JPH]

iamlost-

Apply. Believe in yourself and apply.
If you don't get it...apply again.

I am confident and truly believe that I am going to become a wonderful and capable physician.

The only thing standing in the way of that goal is myself.

Push yourself out of the way and go for it.

Good luck.

------------------
Joshua Paul Hazelton, CNA, EMT-B
[email protected]
University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (2002)
"D.O. Wannabe"

 

[tristate]

If you really want medicine (and being an MD or DO), keep applying.

Most of my friends who did not get into medical school applied to other types of health care schools while applying to allopathic schools (optometry, podiatry, veternary, allied health, dentistry, etc). To them, these schools were a safety net. After they got their degrees, they plan on pursuing an MD again. Many friends who already have MPH or DVM love their new careers that they are not going to apply for an MD again.

The moral of this story: if you want to be a part of medicine and the health care industry, go for it.

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And the blessings just keep coming!

 

[ChrisSteffen]

Being a person of Asian descent gives you an advantage because you are a member of a "protected class"

 

[2004guy]

Please elaborate, Chris.

 

[ChrisSteffen]

Whether or not people choose to accept it, there is an effort being made by schools to make their classes diverse. Therefore, those people of minority status are ofted given special consideration.

 

[arch]

True perhaps.
But asians are not a minority in the eyes of medical school admissions officers. In most cases they are subjected to more rigorous admissions factors because so many of them have 3.5+ gpas and 30+ mcats. In fact, the average GPA and MCAT of asians accepted to medical schools is higher than all other racial groups.

 

[moosiemichelle]

Iamlost,
It is hard to get into medical school. That is why it is important to try very hard and make yourself competitive. However, wonderful people with wonderful statistics and experiences get rejected. That is why back-up plans are important!

One plan can be to apply again the next year. During the year off, take advantage of opportunities that make you a better person and a better canidate.

Rejection from medical school is a good reason why one should select a major they are interested in. Therefore, you have something to go into that you are interested in and enjoy if you decide not to apply to med school again. I chose to major in biology as most pre-meds do, and if I don't get into medical school I will probably go into an environmental field or get a post-bac degree in a molecular bio/genetics related field.

The important things is to follow your dreams and work hard so they will come true. However, it is also important to be prepared for the possibility that they might not happen.

Erin J.

 

[ChrisSteffen]

That may seem to be the case arch, but I really doubt if they're significantly different statistically. If we had the data, I'll bet the mean of the composite GPA of all the asians in the world is less than .5 SD from the mean of the remainder of the population.

 

[arch]

you'd probably win your bet regarding the SD according to my recollection of the data. In addition, my asertion that asians are subjected to tougher standards is unproven.

However your claim that asians are a "protected class" is false.

 

[treq1]

Chris,
Are you and Youngjock related? roomates? twins?

 

[ChrisSteffen]

Treq, that was offsides. I am absolutely nothing like HIM!!!! I am merely insightful. I don't care who gets into med school, as long as they become competent doctors. I wish that I had an advantage, but I don't begrudge anyone else their advantage. Is begrudge a word? So, treq comparing me to one such as youngjock, who is just misguided, is not fair or nice. I forgive your infraction!

 

[tristate]

Chris and for others who are interested, here's the phrasing I think you are looking for.

Asians an Asian-Americans are considered the "overrepresented minority" meaning that next to the majority they consumed the highest percentage of matriculants compared to other minorities in most areas. I think the number is 22% of all matriculants, but don't quote me on that (I am not sure of the exact source).

African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Native Americans, and Pacific Islanders (sorry if I leave other groups out) are considered the "underrepresented minorities" because of lower matriculant numbers and low physician to patient (within the race) ratios.

Now, how certain groups are admitted is the affair of the admissions committees even though they are not to discriminate based on age, race, creed, nationality, religious affiliation, or handicap. Race and admission practices is a topic that needs to be saved for another post. Right now, we must help iamlost with the advice he needs concerning his questions about whether or not to proceed with medicine. Iamlost, race is secondary when deciding upon medicine, what you need to understand is whether or not you want to continue pursuing this profession and its demands and call it a career with which you will be happy.

No one here is trying to bluntantly say that you are wrong; that's why we are here to discuss and debate, not making silly assumptions about one's personality.

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And the blessings just keep coming!

[This message has been edited by tristate (edited 07-20-2000).]

 

[youngjock]

that is exactly my point. so many of you want to get in, but there are only these many seats.

everyone who wants to be a doctor has to pass several big exams. therefore, one can not really judge a person's doctorness simply by judging his/her gpa, mcat.

it should be like that, it should be "where can i find a job after i graduate from med. school?"

is there any other country in the world that has physician assitsant? i don't know myself. but there should be a huge salary difference between a physician and a physician assistant.

money, money.

 

[ChrisSteffen]

I don't think I ever used the phrase "underrepresented minority". What I said was "protected classes" There is a difference. Those who aren't caucasians are given special considerations.

 

[tristate]

Chris, in one of your post, you said that asians were part of a "protected class" in which they were given special consideration. It also sounds as if the "protected class" given "special consideration" was rather given certain "privileges". Of course this would only be considered an assumption.

I am saying that you cannot treat all minorities the same in this debate.

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And the blessings just keep coming!

 

[ChrisSteffen]

ADCOMS will vary in their policy, but I still stand by my assertion that minority applicants are given special consideration.

 

[DocHolliday]

es

 

[Arti]

Chris:

It is very difficult for many qualified Asian Americans to get accepted into medical school. They may consitute 20% of the medical school class yet their acceptance rate is far lower than for other candidates, even caucasians. They are a minority but I have never heard anybody refering to the Asian American Population as being given any special consideration. Fact is, the Asian American students have it harder than any body else when it comes to medical school admissions. And I would very much like to see the source which states that their GPA's/MCATs are lower than that of the remainder of the population. I would guess their grades are either equal of even greater than those of the remainder of population.
As tristate said this population is considered to be overrepresented, which
is unfair for a good number of very well qualified Asian American applicants.

Arti

 

[mummyx]

...However, Burmese students should get special attention from Med-School admissions. They don't deserve of putting into an Asian-Americans category. It's really don't fair.

 

[Arti]

There are distinctions between different types of Asians. But overall for Asian Americans - specifically for Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese descents it is more difficult than for any one else when it comes to medical school process.


Arti

 

[ChrisSteffen]

My point exactly! If a group of people comprises roughly 10 percent of the population, and persons from that group comprises 20% of the med school class, how do you think that happens. Are Asian Americans that much better statistically than the rest of the population? I would doubt it, and statistics as a discipline would also doubt it. That is unless you actually BELIEVED The crap that those guys wrote in the book, "The Bell Curve". The point is, the discrepancy between the pop. % and the Med school % is something that should be reconciled.

 

[Arti]

Chris:

You are missing my point. Less asians get accepted per number who apply when compared to the caucasian applicants. This is not fair, statisticly Asian Americans are right on the par with the caucasians in terms of grades and MCATs, so why the hell less of them get accepted per number applied. It is reverse discrimination any way you cut it.

Arti

 

[youngjock]

Keep arguing, do something positive.

med. schools should open more slots for more applicants. That is so simple. In this so-called richest country, why should qualified applicants be rejected outside med. schools?

Evenone is created equal, then why people are having hard time to gain an equal medical education?

 

[mummyx]

That's right, youngjock!!

 

[raindodger]

Arti, i think you answered "why the hell less of them get accepted per number applied." <grin>

but if you look at the statistics, in 1998, 23,551 whites and 7,622 asians applied.
Of those who applied, only 11,030 whites and 3,442 asians were accepted.
(source: www.aamc.org)

if you do the math: 11,030/23,551 = 46.8% of whites matriculate

3,442/7,622 = 45.2 % of asians matriculate

That is a miniscule difference if you ask me, especially considering that the ratio of asian american med school applicants, to the population of asian american citizens in the United States, is pretty high, compared to the ratio of white med school applicants, to the population of white citizens in the U.S.

The numbers don't lie.

-raindodger

 

[jawurheemd]

raindogger makes a good point. asians don't necessarily fall into a "protected class" The reason that they are overrepresented in medical schools is because proportionately more asians apply to medical school. At the same time asians aren't really discriminated against.

 

[ChrisSteffen]

Arti, I see what your'e saying, but if you look at the big picture, asian-amer. have an advantage overall based on: # in School/% of population. Any way you cut it, they will have a higher ratio with the same stats. That is classified as an advantage!

 

[deziballer]

Chris, the reason that there are so many Asians in medical school compared to their overall population (and by this, I am excluding underrepresented Asian groups like Cambodians, etc) is that such a high percentage of Asians apply to medical school-some reasons for this include family expectations (sociologists use the term "cultural capital") and an inclination of a large proportion of Asians towards the sciences. There may be other reasons as well which I'm not gonna try to figure out.
Anyway, now lets go back to your statistical theory with a hypothetical example:
If there are 1000 Asians in America and 500 apply to med school, 100 of whom are accepted, their acceptance rate is 20%.
If there are 10,000 caucasians in the US and 500 of them apply to medical school, 200 of whom are accepted, their acceptance rate is 40%.
Thus, even though 10% of Asians are in med school while only 2% of caucasians are in med school, it is still statistically harder for Asians.
The numbers are I made up, but I hope you finally get the point. Asians are not a "protected minority" group. More power to underrepresented minority groups, but fortunately or unfortunately, Asians dont fall in that category

 

[Arti]

Raindodger:

I did not really have the numbers to back up what I was saying, but I had this conversation with a friend several years ago and she convinced me that it was more difficult for asian americans to get accepted when compared to the rest of population (1 in 3 as opposed to 1 in 2.)I take back what I said about asian americans having a harder time but I still believe that there is no way that they are given any priveledged status.

Arti