What's competitive today for EM?

[Belleza156]

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It seems like the profile of a person matching for x residency 2 years ago, is not the same as those matching today.

For example my friend who matched last year for ophtha scored 236 on Step 1 and that was 99%.

I just got my results and I scored 231, and this is 83%.

I was aiming to stay above 220 because the NRMP data shows that that is about the average for those matching in EM. Anyone who matched last year have any insight as to whether or not the trends are the same? Seems like the 230 from 2 years ago is equivalent to a 250 today. Does that mean that for EM in order to be competitive I needed to get a 240?

I saw that last year the average # of "publications,abstracts & presentations" for those matched was 1.8. Is it really necessary to be published? And would I have enough time to produce something that can get published before September 2013?

I scored 231 in Step 1, grades are average, some honors. Pretty much a straight B student. I have no publications, Masters in Health Sector Management, and worked as an EMT before med school, and some volunteer work at a clinic for the homeless. I go to a low tier American medical school-M.D. What could I do between now and next year to be competitive for EM? Especially for Southern California 🙂 Any suggestions on what recent matchers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RafaTech]

The two digit score on your Step 1 score report is not your percentile. The actual 99th percentile for step 1 im guessing is somewhere closer to >265. I'm not exactly one to talk as far as match competitiveness goes because i'm applying this year for the match.

SoCal programs (and CA in general) are a bit more on the competitive side than most other regions. Its a highly desirable place to live with some great programs, so that makes it inherently more competitive. Just do well third year and kill your 4th year EM rotations and Step 2 and you'll be sitting pretty.

 

[dotcb]

I think you'll match well, but just do your best in clerkships, EM electives, and if you have any extra time, do things that will demonstrate your commitment to EM. I can't say these will have a lot of weight, but join EMRA, go to the ACEP or SAEM convention, get involved with your local EM dept somehow, etc.

 

[Bane]

It seems like the profile of a person matching for x residency 2 years ago, is not the same as those matching today.

For example my friend who matched last year for ophtha scored 236 on Step 1 and that was 99%.

I just got my results and I scored 231, and this is 83%.

I was aiming to stay above 220 because the NRMP data shows that that is about the average for those matching in EM. Anyone who matched last year have any insight as to whether or not the trends are the same? Seems like the 230 from 2 years ago is equivalent to a 250 today. Does that mean that for EM in order to be competitive I needed to get a 240?

I saw that last year the average # of "publications,abstracts & presentations" for those matched was 1.8. Is it really necessary to be published? And would I have enough time to produce something that can get published before September 2013?

I scored 231 in Step 1, grades are average, some honors. Pretty much a straight B student. I have no publications, Masters in Health Sector Management, and worked as an EMT before med school, and some volunteer work at a clinic for the homeless. I go to a low tier American medical school-M.D. What could I do between now and next year to be competitive for EM? Especially for Southern California 🙂 Any suggestions on what recent matchers would be greatly appreciated.

Btw, the steps scores didn't change. They just updated the 2 digit score last year (because too many people were going around saying they got a 99, which means nothing). I.e. a 236 2 years ago wasn't awesome with a 231 today being OK. Those scores are identical for matching purposes. The averages may sneak up a bit (5 points here or there), but nothing moved 10+ points (certainly not 20 points, like you're asking). Just add 5 points to what you see in the charting outcomes 2011 and that should be around the mean.

 

[Belleza156]

Are u sure? Because I saw my friends score from 2010 was 236, being 99%. But now I think 99% is about a 260. That is quite a jump in only 2 years. I don't know if that's a trend starting this year, because no one seems to be aware that scores are now higher than ever. It was unheard of to get 260 before but now lots of the gunners are scoring 260-275....crazy.

So is it not necessary to get published? An average of 2 publications/presentations seems like a high #. Maybe its more presentations, posters than actual publications?




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[Docuronium]

Are u sure? Because I saw my friends score from 2010 was 236, being 99%. But now I think 99% is about a 260. That is quite a jump in only 2 years. I don't know if that's a trend starting this year, because no one seems to be aware that scores are now higher than ever. It was unheard of to get 260 before but now lots of the gunners are scoring 260-275....crazy.

I thought the test was standardized, and therefore, there shouldn't be a significant variation from year to year on proportions of people with certain scores

 

[TheBlueBlazer]

Are u sure? Because I saw my friends score from 2010 was 236, being 99%. But now I think 99% is about a 260. That is quite a jump in only 2 years. I don't know if that's a trend starting this year, because no one seems to be aware that scores are now higher than ever. It was unheard of to get 260 before but now lots of the gunners are scoring 260-275....crazy.

So is it not necessary to get published? An average of 2 publications/presentations seems like a high #. Maybe its more presentations, posters than actual publications?

Dude/Dudette, READ people's responses and get it OUT of your head that the 2-digit score=percentile. IT IS NOT A PERCENTILE, they say this all over the place but nobody ever listens. They recalibrated the 2-digit scoring system this year, and 2-digit scores are lower across the board, but your 3-digit scores mean roughly the same as they did a few years ago. Score above the mean, and you're fine. EM isn't a numbers-based specialty.

 

[manny99]

Dude/Dudette, READ people's responses and get it OUT of your head that the 2-digit score=percentile. IT IS NOT A PERCENTILE, they say this all over the place but nobody ever listens. They recalibrated the 2-digit scoring system this year, and 2-digit scores are lower across the board, but your 3-digit scores mean roughly the same as they did a few years ago. Score above the mean, and you're fine. EM isn't a numbers-based specialty.

Amen

 

[Belleza156]

Dude/Dudette, READ people's responses and get it OUT of your head that the 2-digit score=percentile. IT IS NOT A PERCENTILE, they say this all over the place but nobody ever listens. They recalibrated the 2-digit scoring system this year, and 2-digit scores are lower across the board, but your 3-digit scores mean roughly the same as they did a few years ago. Score above the mean, and you're fine. EM isn't a numbers-based specialty.

I know its not a percentile, I even wrote a hella long post on the step 1 experience thread delineating what it is....a number created by the usmle ppl because some states require a % in order to grant licensing. Hence I wrote "%" not percentile. Nonetheless it still matters, not sure why. I was talking to a chief resident of an internal med program today and he said that they do look at the two digit score as well when granting interviews. But once ur in the door sitting for an interview your 220 is no better nor worse than a 250.

So if EM isn't a numbers residency, what is it? If its not about numbers, what else is there in med school. It's not like there's time to go be a volunteer medic. Not many ppl in my school are interested in EM so there's no one to really ask about this stuff..I think I'm one of two from my class.

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[RafaTech]

I know its not a percentile, I even wrote a hella long post on the step 1 experience thread delineating what it is....a number created by the usmle ppl because some states require a % in order to grant licensing. Hence I wrote "%" not percentile. Nonetheless it still matters, not sure why. I was talking to a chief resident of an internal med program today and he said that they do look at the two digit score as well when granting interviews. But once ur in the door sitting for an interview your 220 is no better nor worse than a 250.

So if EM isn't a numbers residency, what is it? If its not about numbers, what else is there in med school. It's not like there's time to go be a volunteer medic. Not many ppl in my school are interested in EM so there's no one to really ask about this stuff..I think I'm one of two from my class.

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No one looks at the two number score. I've spoken with EM program directors and no one ever mentions that number.

The other things in med school that really matter are your M3 grades, your EM grades and your letters. Those three things mostly take into account your clinical abilities, work ethic and personality, not your numbers (granted some exams are part of the overall grade). EM is more of a "whole package" type of thing. Program directors want someone that is a pleasure to teach and work with for 3-4 years. They are looking for people that will make good clinicians, not those that will score the highest score on their inservice exam. There is no point in obsessing over the numbers right now. You'll get a better idea of where you stand once the new NMRP data comes out after this year's match. Until then all you can do is work hard the rest of your M3 year. Seems like you've done just fine so far based on your Step 1 score, keep it up.

 

[Belleza156]

No one looks at the two number score. I've spoken with EM program directors and no one ever mentions that number.

The other things in med school that really matter are your M3 grades, your EM grades and your letters. Those three things mostly take into account your clinical abilities, work ethic and personality, not your numbers (granted some exams are part of the overall grade). EM is more of a "whole package" type of thing. Program directors want someone that is a pleasure to teach and work with for 3-4 years. They are looking for people that will make good clinicians, not those that will score the highest score on their inservice exam. There is no point in obsessing over the numbers right now. You'll get a better idea of where you stand once the new NMRP data comes out after this year's match. Until then all you can do is work hard the rest of your M3 year. Seems like you've done just fine so far based on your Step 1 score, keep it up.

Thanks that was really helpful!

 

[Bane]

Are u sure? Because I saw my friends score from 2010 was 236, being 99%. But now I think 99% is about a 260. That is quite a jump in only 2 years. I don't know if that's a trend starting this year, because no one seems to be aware that scores are now higher than ever. It was unheard of to get 260 before but now lots of the gunners are scoring 260-275....crazy.

So is it not necessary to get published? An average of 2 publications/presentations seems like a high #. Maybe its more presentations, posters than actual publications?




Sent from my PC36100 using SDN Mobile

Stop freaking out and being a typical med student. Do your best and put your best application together and you will be able to work in this field AND many others (even if your - *gasp* 10 points below the mean or whatever range off the meaningless 2 digit score).

There are so many "OH **** the sky is falling" people in med school, I think the medical school selection process selects for these people (i.e. this attitude helps put together a complete application in undergrad and helps people overstudy for stuff and do well). It's really quite annoying of an attitude... "Oh **** I'm only at the mean, does this mean I won't be a doctor?" "Oh ****, I'm in the bottom 3rd of my Top 5 medical school with only a 250 on Step 1, can I match Anesthesia?! - these are actual posts from SDN).

Dude/Dudette, READ people's responses and get it OUT of your head that the 2-digit score=percentile. IT IS NOT A PERCENTILE, they say this all over the place but nobody ever listens. They recalibrated the 2-digit scoring system this year, and 2-digit scores are lower across the board, but your 3-digit scores mean roughly the same as they did a few years ago. Score above the mean, and you're fine. EM isn't a numbers-based specialty.

Yeah, I told the poster they rescaled it but I guess if you want to freak out, you can always find a way to do it. It must serve a purpose because these people tend to do well on stuff, but I would hate to live day to day with the amount of second-guessing and anxiety that comes alongside.

I know its not a percentile, I even wrote a hella long post on the step 1 experience thread delineating what it is....a number created by the usmle ppl because some states require a % in order to grant licensing. Hence I wrote "%" not percentile. Nonetheless it still matters, not sure why. I was talking to a chief resident of an internal med program today and he said that they do look at the two digit score as well when granting interviews. But once ur in the door sitting for an interview your 220 is no better nor worse than a 250.

The bolded statement actual is so general that it's useless. "we look at the 2 digit score" meaning what? They could also say, "we look at the person's general appear when granting interviews". Saying someone looks at something doesn't mean anything but give you another reason to worry. Is it rank #23 on a list of 25, or is it #2? People look at your AOA status too, does this mean people without AOA don't become doctors!?

Let's be honest, you are just a worrier and you have found a new thing to worry about.

[/tough love]

 

[Belleza156]

Stop freaking out and being a typical med student. Do your best and put your best application together and you will be able to work in this field AND many others (even if your - *gasp* 10 points below the mean or whatever range off the meaningless 2 digit score).

There are so many "OH **** the sky is falling" people in med school, I think the medical school selection process selects for these people (i.e. this attitude helps put together a complete application in undergrad and helps people overstudy for stuff and do well). It's really quite annoying of an attitude... "Oh **** I'm only at the mean, does this mean I won't be a doctor?" "Oh ****, I'm in the bottom 3rd of my Top 5 medical school with only a 250 on Step 1, can I match Anesthesia?! - these are actual posts from SDN).



Yeah, I told the poster they rescaled it but I guess if you want to freak out, you can always find a way to do it. It must serve a purpose because these people tend to do well on stuff, but I would hate to live day to day with the amount of second-guessing and anxiety that comes alongside.




The bolded statement actual is so general that it's useless. "we look at the 2 digit score" meaning what? They could also say, "we look at the person's general appear when granting interviews". Saying someone looks at something doesn't mean anything but give you another reason to worry. Is it rank #23 on a list of 25, or is it #2? People look at your AOA status too, does this mean people without AOA don't become doctors!?

Let's be honest, you are just a worrier and you have found a new thing to worry about.

[/tough love]

Yea, thanks for the tough love. I was under the impression that EM wasn't all that competitive and I could just cruise through med school as I have been. I'm not really a worrier, I'm more of a slacker (in comparison to the gunners in med school, not to normal people outside of med school), who tends to do well with putting in adequate effort. But last Friday I had a meeting with the Dean of Student Affairs and he gave me a huge list of stuff I need to get done and added to my CV in order to be competitive for the residency I want (which I have no idea what program I want, too early in MSIII to tell). And it was a bucketload of things. He went through all the break downs of grades that are looked at, left my head spinning. To the point I turned into full gunner mode in my surgery rotation, which is so unlike me. But I may as well try to honor surgery since I started out strong.

Then on Weds when I was working at the volunteer clinic I go to, the chief resident who oversees us (really just signs our SOAP notes and the rest of the time gives internal medicine board study advice). And when I thought no one looks at the two digit score, all of a sudden he tells me it is looked at when granting interviews, he's chief resident at a VA program not sure if that bears any weight on the use of the 2 digit score. Then another friend of mine talked to program director of Yale internal medicine program this week and the PD told him they had a minimum cutoff of 85, so they did use the score....then again it is Yale. So, now all of a sudden when I thought the 2 digit score has no weight I start hearing ppl say that they do use it. So, which is it? I dunno, probably depends on the program and I'll just have to ask the PD directly.

But when I wrote the post originally, what I really wanted to know is if EM applicant always have lots of research. Because if its a necessity like it is for certain other specialties, then I need to get the ball rolling on that now since I would only have 1 year to produce something. But if it's not then I prefer to NOT do any of it because it'll just be a time stealer, and there's so many better (fun) things to do than research.

 

[RafaTech]

But when I wrote the post originally, what I really wanted to know is if EM applicant always have lots of research. Because if its a necessity like it is for certain other specialties, then I need to get the ball rolling on that now since I would only have 1 year to produce something. But if it's not then I prefer to NOT do any of it because it'll just be a time stealer, and there's so many better (fun) things to do than research.

Early in 3rd year when I asked my PD about doing research he said it wasnt necessary for EM. He told me if I have a particular interest in a certain EM topic then I'm more than happy to pursue it, but its not something that is going to make or break your application. If you have it, its always a plus, but you dont, I dont think they'll hold it against you.

 

[dally1025]

But when I wrote the post originally, what I really wanted to know is if EM applicant always have lots of research. Because if its a necessity like it is for certain other specialties, then I need to get the ball rolling on that now since I would only have 1 year to produce something. But if it's not then I prefer to NOT do any of it because it'll just be a time stealer, and there's so many better (fun) things to do than research.

Of the 5 or 6 people applying from my school this year I'm the only one with research experience. I only have experience because I needed a job after undergrad and research is about all you can do with a degree in biology. If you like research do it, if not, spend your time doing other things. It will help your application but not having it won't hurt you. Some programs are more research focused and might expect it but if you're not interested in doing it now why would you want to go to a residency program that has a larger emphasis on research. Clinical research is a bit easier and faster to do than bench science stuff as it's mostly data analysis so you could likely get at least a paper in progress by next year if you did that.

 

[Belleza156]

Rafatech and Daily1025 thanks for the responses!

 

[Bane]

Yea, thanks for the tough love. I was under the impression that EM wasn't all that competitive and I could just cruise through med school as I have been. I'm not really a worrier, I'm more of a slacker (in comparison to the gunners in med school, not to normal people outside of med school), who tends to do well with putting in adequate effort. But last Friday I had a meeting with the Dean of Student Affairs and he gave me a huge list of stuff I need to get done and added to my CV in order to be competitive for the residency I want (which I have no idea what program I want, too early in MSIII to tell). And it was a bucketload of things. He went through all the break downs of grades that are looked at, left my head spinning. To the point I turned into full gunner mode in my surgery rotation, which is so unlike me. But I may as well try to honor surgery since I started out strong.

Then on Weds when I was working at the volunteer clinic I go to, the chief resident who oversees us (really just signs our SOAP notes and the rest of the time gives internal medicine board study advice). And when I thought no one looks at the two digit score, all of a sudden he tells me it is looked at when granting interviews, he's chief resident at a VA program not sure if that bears any weight on the use of the 2 digit score. Then another friend of mine talked to program director of Yale internal medicine program this week and the PD told him they had a minimum cutoff of 85, so they did use the score....then again it is Yale. So, now all of a sudden when I thought the 2 digit score has no weight I start hearing ppl say that they do use it. So, which is it? I dunno, probably depends on the program and I'll just have to ask the PD directly.

But when I wrote the post originally, what I really wanted to know is if EM applicant always have lots of research. Because if its a necessity like it is for certain other specialties, then I need to get the ball rolling on that now since I would only have 1 year to produce something. But if it's not then I prefer to NOT do any of it because it'll just be a time stealer, and there's so many better (fun) things to do than research.

One PD @ Yale saying he using the 2 digit score should have no bearing on your attitude or application... lol, I mean what are you going to change your plan because of one PD?

You should try to honor all your rotations, you shouldn't be turning it up now that you are behind (that does scream slacker), just do your best always while staying in the balance that you need (stuff that makes you a person and not a robot). As for your dean, take all the advice they gave you and work hard to put your best application together... what more can you do?

Letting the whims and perspectives of a single person, regardless of their status, to throw you off kilter and get worried/panic is not good. Find a good mentor who you trust, ask some trusted people on SDN and develop a good plan, then work hard at it. No worrying necessary.

Everyone will always give you a bucketload of things to do, honestly, list out that bucketload right here and now or ask your mentor about the buckeload of things and get some honest perspective rather than running out to do all of it and getting worried. I bet a lot of that stuff isn't even necessary. I bet you're keeping everything in your mind which = stress. Write it all down on a simple list and see what is important and/or achievable or necessary.

EM is definitely not a research heavy field... (Radiology oncology - yes, neurosurg - yes, Gsurg - no, EM - no... ). Keep asking questions and talking to experience people and you'll get the idea pretty quick. Research obviously helps if you're into academics (or Yale... funny how everyone likes to drop Ivy league names always). There are plenty of great EM programs and probably has little to do with Ivy league IM programs.

 

[coralis]

FYI

1) the 2 digit score is no longer reported to programs for matching only to boards for licensing. Hence no one can "look" at any 2 digit for interview purposes.

2) it is not a % nor a percentile. It is an old, the first, scoring system used by the medical licensing boards and the only reason it has recently changed is because it has not been adjusted to the mean for a long time, and now it has. Medical boards will continue to use the 2 digit score and the only thing they care about is you being >75 (ie pass)

 

[Belleza156]

FYI

1) the 2 digit score is no longer reported to programs for matching only to boards for licensing. Hence no one can "look" at any 2 digit for interview purposes.

2) it is not a % nor a percentile. It is an old, the first, scoring system used by the medical licensing boards and the only reason it has recently changed is because it has not been adjusted to the mean for a long time, and now it has. Medical boards will continue to use the 2 digit score and the only thing they care about is you being >75 (ie pass)

That's what I thought! But how can program directors say they currently use the 2 digit as a cutoff...they must be seeing it somehow. Maybe the 2 digit no longer being reported is taking into effect this year....Yep that's exactly it, anyone who took USMLE exam after October 11, 2011 wont have their 2 digit score reported. This years match will be the first match that wont have the 2 digit score available for the PDs to see. That explains why I've been getting all kinds of mixed responses regarding the issue.

http://www.usmle.org/announcements/?ContentId=81

So I finally got it. Scores are slightly higher than before but the 3 digit number is still the only one that matters, and what was good last year will be about the same this year. So thanks everyone who reiterated that a few times over, it finally clicked. At least now I know I can use NRMP data to gauge better what trend I should follow to be a candidate for the residencies I want. Stress levels are now decompressing. 👍👍👍

 

[Belleza156]

One PD @ Yale saying he using the 2 digit score should have no bearing on your attitude or application... lol, I mean what are you going to change your plan because of one PD?

You should try to honor all your rotations, you shouldn't be turning it up now that you are behind (that does scream slacker), just do your best always while staying in the balance that you need (stuff that makes you a person and not a robot). As for your dean, take all the advice they gave you and work hard to put your best application together... what more can you do?

Letting the whims and perspectives of a single person, regardless of their status, to throw you off kilter and get worried/panic is not good. Find a good mentor who you trust, ask some trusted people on SDN and develop a good plan, then work hard at it. No worrying necessary.

Everyone will always give you a bucketload of things to do, honestly, list out that bucketload right here and now or ask your mentor about the buckeload of things and get some honest perspective rather than running out to do all of it and getting worried. I bet a lot of that stuff isn't even necessary. I bet you're keeping everything in your mind which = stress. Write it all down on a simple list and see what is important and/or achievable or necessary.

EM is definitely not a research heavy field... (Radiology oncology - yes, neurosurg - yes, Gsurg - no, EM - no... ). Keep asking questions and talking to experience people and you'll get the idea pretty quick. Research obviously helps if you're into academics (or Yale... funny how everyone likes to drop Ivy league names always). There are plenty of great EM programs and probably has little to do with Ivy league IM programs.

Applied for a mentor at EMRA website ...check

Wrote out the bucketlist on my 7 ft whiteboard at home...check

Now I need to go study, I'll get back to the bucket list after labor day. I'm going to enjoy the weekend and not think about the bucketlist that fills up 2/3 of my whiteboard!🙂

 

[zinjanthropus]

your scores are fine, you are doing fine - rotate somewhere, continue to do well, be a person that we wouldn't dread working with at 0200 and you will match

 

[EMquest3]

The 2 digit score is no longer being reported on USMLE transcripts so talking about it is pointless.

 

[Bane]

Applied for a mentor at EMRA website ...check

Wrote out the bucketlist on my 7 ft whiteboard at home...check

Now I need to go study, I'll get back to the bucket list after labor day. I'm going to enjoy the weekend and not think about the bucketlist that fills up 2/3 of my whiteboard!🙂

👍👍 Good job.

I honestly would PM that list to people on this site (attendings) that you respect, you can get another perspective that way, then obviously your mentor.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

Just an anecdote on EM research. I'm helping with a project at the local EM residency and when I met the PD his reaction was along the lines of "ick, you're doing research? Do you realize all of the more fun and interesting things you could be doing right now instead?" 😳

 

[coralis]

Just an anecdote on EM research. I'm helping with a project at the local EM residency and when I met the PD his reaction was along the lines of "ick, you're doing research? Do you realize all of the more fun and interesting things you could be doing right now instead?" 😳

😛