What's more important: shadowing or publications?

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Greenvneck said:
What do Dental schools like more? If I were to apply to a DMD/PhD would that make publications more desirable for these schools?
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You need to do shadowing for the majority of dental schools, I never heard of any program where publications are required.
 
If you can publish, I would do it. Shadowing is always important, but publishing shows that you have ACADEMIC prowess in a specific area of focus. Can't hurt. But the majority of people of sdn will say otherwise. Just my 2 cents.
 
Predent25 said:
If you can publish, I would do it. Shadowing is always important, but publishing shows that you have ACADEMIC prowess in a specific area of focus. Can't hurt. But the majority of people of sdn will say otherwise. Just my 2 cents.
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Thats because Shadowing is MANDATORY while Publishing isnt 😀 There's an ADEA survey that explicitly points out which factors are important for admission. Research is extremely low on that list.
 
True. I shadowed my 100 or so hours and published 4 times. My entire interview(s) regarded my research. Of course shadowing is mandatory. I am biased to research because I am a researcher. Although it is not required, research will enhance your application. I believe my research experience earned me my seat more than my experiences watching a DDS drill teeth( which I was more than happy to do)
 
You need to shadow to figure out if dentistry is something you want to commit the rest of your life towards. Research publications are a bonus.
 
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Predent25 said:
True. I shadowed my 100 or so hours and published 4 times. My entire interview(s) regarded my research. Of course shadowing is mandatory. I am biased to research because I am a researcher. Although it is not required, research will enhance your application. I believe my research experience earned me my seat more than my experiences watching a DDS drill teeth( which I was more than happy to do)
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Majority of the time research will not enhance your application. See the ADEA file that I spoke about before. The only reason why you had a research happy interview was because the interviewer read your file and decided that he wanted to chit chat about research. Otherwise there is no correlation with doing research and gaining acceptance. Just want to clear up that misnomer.
 
Shadowing is always valuable. It will teach you simple terminology, the teeth numbers, etc. needed to prepare for a career in dentistry.
 
There is your answer OP. Go watch a DDS and you are golden.
 
Go for the publications! It's easy to shadow and anyone can shadow. I did some research in undergrad and 2 of my interviewers this cycle were researchers. Guess what came up? Not your average case of course, but still.
 
publicate. shadowing is something that you do a little bit of to make sure you like dentistry. publishing is what will set you apart in your post-doctoral endeavors.

life is like chess: those that think only 1 step ahead dont do so great.
 
UCLAzy said:
publicate. shadowing is something that you do a little bit of to make sure you like dentistry. publishing is what will set you apart in your post-doctoral endeavors.

life is like chess: those that think only 1 step ahead dont do so great.
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I agree. Shadow to see if dentistry is for you. Publish to set yourself apart. You can always put it on your resume' and it may additionally hel you if you choose to specialize. People who have research know it's importance, those who don't quickly dismiss it as unimportant. I am not talking about just getting accepted to dental school, but it may come in handy down the road. Good luck
 
UCLAzy said:
publicate. shadowing is something that you do a little bit of to make sure you like dentistry. publishing is what will set you apart in your post-doctoral endeavors.

life is like chess: those that think only 1 step ahead dont do so great.
Click to expand...

False statement is highlighted in bold. See page 34 of the following ADEA survey: http://www.ada.org/sections/professionalResources/pdfs/survey_ed_vol2.pdf

Publication/Research falls under Professional Experience which is just about as important as Community Service and Overcoming Personal Challenges. It wont set you apart and most schools think that its "Somewhat Important." Its not "Very Important" like your pre admission interview and LORs which matter significantly more. So doing research wont set you up to in a "better spot than everyone else."
 
Predent25 said:
I agree. Shadow to see if dentistry is for you. Publish to set yourself apart. You can always put it on your resume' and it may additionally hel you if you choose to specialize. People who have research know it's importance, those who don't quickly dismiss it as unimportant. I am not talking about just getting accepted to dental school, but it may come in handy down the road. Good luck
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False statement please see the link that I have included.
 
Greenvneck said:
Thanks for your information, but maybe i should be a little more specific now that I have seen answers. I am contemplating applying for a dmd/phd at some schools. So if publications for just a dmd are comparable to community service, I assume they are extremely important for a dmd/phd? I have done both, but lack a large amount of time shadowing (maybe 50 hours), but am not applying until August.
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You should msg other students that have interviewed at DDS/PHD programs and see what their interviews were focused on. Im sure some people were grilled on their publications but others probably didnt address it. Listen obv research isn't going to hurt, but the question is how much will it help?

Shadowing is vital and I would get your hours up to 100 (with a letter from the dentist to use as an LOR.) I'm sure your stats i.e. GPA and DAT will carry more weight against any publications so as long as your stats are high and you've done some sort of research you'll be fine.
 
UCLAzy said:
publicate. shadowing is something that you do a little bit of to make sure you like dentistry. publishing is what will set you apart in your post-doctoral endeavors.

life is like chess: those that think only 1 step ahead dont do so great.
Click to expand...

100% correct.
Wired obviously lacks research experience :laugh:
 
In my opinion, research ISNT required right. BUT the fact that you do it anyway and are successful enough in your endeavour to be named as an author on a publication says alot about you. It proves that you realize what is expected of you and choose to do more because you have the capacity to do so. Furthermore, the LOR from that professor kind enough to place you on his/her publication, or in a better scenario the professor for whom you busted your ass to publish a first author paper, will be better than gold. All that being said, its not a "what matters more question", it all matters. Shadowing is a neccessary evil in order to be SURE dentistry is what you want. Shadowing will get you into Dschool. Research, on the other hand, is where you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that you acheive your goals and even strive to exceed them. That said, research gets you into the TOP programs. Of course this is based on my experience and POV but if you think in terms of what is required, what you have proven to people on the way, and the commitment... It says alot

And the statistical argument is weak. Obviously it will support research not being important bc the top schools are just that... A fraction of the whole.
 
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MrLowKey said:
In my opinion, research ISNT required right. BUT the fact that you do it anyway and are successful enough in your endeavour to be named as an author on a publication says alot about you. It proves that you realize what is expected of you and choose to do more because you have the capacity to do so. Furthermore, the LOR from that professor kind enough to place you on his/her publication, or in a better scenario the professor for whom you busted your ass to publish a first author paper, will be better than gold. All that being said, its not a "what matters more question", it all matters. Shadowing is a neccessary evil in order to be SURE dentistry is what you want. Shadowing will get you into Dschool. Research, on the other hand, is where you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that you acheive your goals and even strive to exceed them. That said, research gets you into the TOP programs. Of course this is based on my experience and POV but if you think in terms of what is required, what you have proven to people on the way, and the commitment... It says alot

And the statistical argument is weak. Obviously it will support research not being important bc the top schools are just that... A fraction of the whole.
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Its ok to love research but apparently dental schools dont share such "appreciation"
 
I just have one thing to say...

Research is not a required/recommended component for admissions. Shadowing is a requirement for some schools and recommended by many 🙂. Objectivity people! Cmon guys. What could possibly be more important? One criteria is required and the other isn't. I still don't get why people can't look at the facts and just make a conclusion on that. I never include personal experiences or what I hear to back up a conclusion. As researchers, you should agree with me! Look at the evidence (not your personal experiences b/c you "believe" research put you over the top).

OK, I lied one more thing to say.

Correlation does not mean causation. People who do research tend to be more driven in general and thus obtain higher grades/DAT and thus are admitted into top programs. This does not mean research is the reason for your success.

To the people who say research gets you into top programs. There are people who don't do research and get into top programs. Can you honestly say there are people with really crappy grade/DAT with great publications that get into top programs? So with these observations, you should conclude that it's likely that your GPA/DAT got you in, not your research.

Oh BTW, everything I say is in regards to D-school admissions. Research is definitely important for overall development of society. Furthermore, I am not saying research holds no weight in admissions. I'm saying shadowing is more important and if you had to pick one or the other, you should definitely pick shadowing.
 
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wired202808 said:
Its ok to love research but apparently dental schools dont share such "appreciation"
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I just think research makes a statement about an applicant. There is something to be said about a person who uses the knowledge from pre-reqs, applies it, and maybe even finds something new.

Overall it seemed that there is a sort of gradient in sentiment towards research. Not so desirable/famous school X tends to have a different set of priorities than desirable/famous school Y. It all depends on what you want out of this whole thing, which makes each approach unique to the individual.
 
MrLowKey said:
I just think research makes a statement about an applicant. There is something to be said about a person who uses the knowledge from pre-reqs, applies it, and maybe even finds something new.

Overall it seemed that there is a sort of gradient in sentiment towards research. Not so desirable/famous school X tends to have a different set of priorities than desirable/famous school Y. It all depends on what you want out of this whole thing, which makes each approach unique to the individual.
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I think and I feel arguments aren't worth more than facts. Facts are facts: Shadowing is necessary (most of the time) and research is never necessary.
 
Greenvneck said:
What do Dental schools like more? If I were to apply to a DMD/PhD would that make publications more desirable for these schools?
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As for applying to DDS/PhD programs... These are quite competitive. Most schools have between 1-6 seats available for these grant-funded positions. Shadowing is important for the DDS portion as research exposure is important for the PhD portion. Experience matters in both instances. I myself have a PhD. It was no cake walk, and I encourage you to get research exposure to ensure the PhD portion of the joint degree is for you. It is competitive to obtain these seats so publications can help.
 
wired202808 said:
False statement is highlighted in bold. See page 34 of the following ADEA survey: http://www.ada.org/sections/professionalResources/pdfs/survey_ed_vol2.pdf

Publication/Research falls under Professional Experience which is just about as important as Community Service and Overcoming Personal Challenges. It wont set you apart and most schools think that its "Somewhat Important." Its not "Very Important" like your pre admission interview and LORs which matter significantly more. So doing research wont set you up to in a "better spot than everyone else."
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You still exist?

It doesn't matter what the ADA says. It's a generic statement. If your lab stumbled across the cure for oral cancer I doubt dental schools would refer to the ADA guide and say "Actually, as impressive as that is, I'm just going to have to ignore it".

Travel isn't a requirement nor looked upon as much of an application booster. It's what you get from the experience that changes you as a person. Travel and research were the main topics of discussion during my interviews and I got in. Have the basics down - good gpa, DAT, shadowing...then just be creative and do what you want. There are a million paths to take to dental school but none of them involve listening to this clown.
 
timwatley said:
You still exist?

It doesn't matter what the ADA says. It's a generic statement. If your lab stumbled across the cure for oral cancer I doubt dental schools would refer to the ADA guide and say "Actually, as impressive as that is, I'm just going to have to ignore it".

Travel isn't a requirement nor looked upon as much of an application booster. It's what you get from the experience that changes you as a person. Travel and research were the main topics of discussion during my interviews and I got in. Have the basics down - good gpa, DAT, shadowing...then just be creative and do what you want. There are a million paths to take to dental school but none of them involve listening to this clown.
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Just because your interview had questions regarding your background does not mean that one cannot get into school without research. That's what we're saying on here, its obvious that no one will reject you due to your research. But just because someone lacks it, it doesnt mean they wont get into dental school.
 
Shadowing is a must for every applicant. If anything, research and publications can only help your application... not hurt it. I would assume it would give a boost to applicants applying to the DDS/PhD route more than just the DDS route 🙂 If you have the option or opportunity to do both, then do both. Because if I'm not mistaken...

shadowing + research + publication > shadowing alone
 
if anyone wishes to pursue a DSD/PhD, research is an absolute must. However, it's not required to get into the "top" schools. Scores and GPA are probably a better indicator for the top tier schools, community service, and life experiences. Research is interesting, but that's subjective and depends if you like bench work or not. Research will make your app stand out, but it won't "make up" for things like a low GPA or DAT score.
 
timwatley said:
Go for the publications! It's easy to shadow and anyone can shadow. I did some research in undergrad and 2 of my interviewers this cycle were researchers. Guess what came up? Not your average case of course, but still.
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So, if during the interview, one ended up talking about the weather, it would be the interest in the weather that got one accepted.
 
To answer the OP's question; for dental school shadowing is much more important than research, although research is a nice plus to have. My friend who was accepted to Buffalo recently told me most of the schools she interviewed at were very interested in the research internship she had done at BNL.

For DMD/PHD programs, I THINK research would be much more important. I say this because at least as MD/PHD programs though, a few people were able to get in based on heavy research alone and some got in without any clinical volunteering or shadowing whatsoever. I don't believe you'd have a chance at a DMD/PHD without any research but I could very well be wrong.
 
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