What's the proper way to say or pronounce "EMTALA"?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

metalgearHMN

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
481
Reaction score
2
Do you say it like a word "eem-talla," or do you say each letter like "E M T A L A."

I use that legislation a lot when discussing healthcare reform and was wondering if their was an official way to refer to it in speech.

Members don't see this ad.
 
M-talla'

like the letter M, then talla' like "I'm talla' than you"
 
Members don't see this ad :)
"The dumbest healthcare legislation ever passed"

What if you get hit by a car and your wallet (or purse) flies into a nearby river. Should the ER department wait until they can verify that you have insurance prior to delivering care?

EMTALA ensures that no one is denied life saving care due to lack of insurance, or lack of proof of insurance. Alternatively, people could just walk into an ER and die after being denied care, and I think many people would have an ethical problem with that. EMTALA not only prevents this from occurring, it also provides legislative rationale for Congress to provide funding to ER departments across the country who would otherwise have to pay for this themselves.

However, EMTALA was abused because the US didn't have universal healthcare coverage. People without insurance would utilize the ER as their primary care provider, or would neglect their health until they wound up in the ER. This was not a failing of EMTALA, but a failing of our healthcare "system."

The recent healthcare reform bill remedies this situation by requiring all individuals to have healthcare insurance. This will give greater access to actual primary care and prevention, so less people seek care in the ER, or wait until their condition is so bad that they are faced with an emergent care situation.

Did you ever wonder why the Congressional Budget Office (non-partisan btw) said the bill would SAVE the government money?! It's because even though we will spend a lot to get more people insured, the federal government will be decreasing funding to hosptials for EMTALA and other uncompensated care. Instead, since everyone will have insurance, the hospitals can bill the companies (or Medicaid/Medicare). There is a net savings because:

1. Uninsured people who are now required to buy insurance will no longer be getting a free ride from the government (instead they have to buy insurance)

2. Uninsured people who qualify for the Medicaid extension to 133% of the poverty level (something like $30,000) will still be getting the free ride. However, they will have insurance to go see a primary care physician and obtain preventative care as opposed to only getting care in the ER which is MUCH more expensive. Therefore the government is saving money by paying for preventative care, instead of emergent care. (I know you might be thinking about providing NO care, but that's ethically questionable, and I don't think docs and nurses would just let people die if they came into an ER)

Here's a scenario I heard from an ER doc on NPR:

Prior to reform:
Melinda is a single mother of two making $28,000 a year working full-time. She needs blood pressure medication which costs $100 a month but she cannot afford it and doesn't qualify for Medicaid. Instead, 4 years later, she suffers a heart attack and goes to the ER receiving $50,000 of care paid for by the government or the ER. She dies, and the $50,000 of EMTALA required care dwarfs the cost to have just provided her with the "preventative" blood-pressure medication(in fact we could have purchased 40 years worth) to keep her from getting a heart attack.

After reform:
Melinda is a single mother of two making $28,000 a year working full-time. She needs blood pressure medication which costs $100 a month and is paid for by Medicaid, which she qualifies for under the new law. Medicaid pays for 20 years of medication costing $24,000 dollars. Eventually she either works her way up so she's no longer on Medicaid (makes more than $28,000/yr), retires, or dies. Either way the, cost to society is less if we take the preventative route, instead of paying for her ER visit.

Basically, poor people are drain, and they cost us money. We can let them die, but that's ethically f***ed. Giving them health insurance means that their money-grubbing is kept to a minimum.

Obviously in this anecdote n = 1. However if we apply this situation to a broader demographic, it's been shown that primary care is less expensive.

Wow I really digressed from EMTALA.

TL;DR: EMTALA has a noble purpose, but was warped. Now we've sort of remedied the situation. We'll see how it goes. Poor people are going to drain our money but we can't let them die, so let's just do the cheapest alternative, which is preventative care!
 
What if you get hit by a car and your wallet (or purse) flies into a nearby river. Should the ER department wait until they can verify that you have insurance prior to delivering care?

EMTALA ensures that no one is denied life saving care due to lack of insurance, or lack of proof of insurance. Alternatively, people could just walk into an ER and die after being denied care, and I think many people would have an ethical problem with that. EMTALA not only prevents this from occurring, it also provides legislative rationale for Congress to provide funding to ER departments across the country who would otherwise have to pay for this themselves.

However, EMTALA was abused because the US didn't have universal healthcare coverage. People without insurance would utilize the ER as their primary care provider, or would neglect their health until they wound up in the ER. This was not a failing of EMTALA, but a failing of our healthcare "system."

The recent healthcare reform bill remedies this situation by requiring all individuals to have healthcare insurance. This will give greater access to actual primary care and prevention, so less people seek care in the ER, or wait until their condition is so bad that they are faced with an emergent care situation.

Did you ever wonder why the Congressional Budget Office (non-partisan btw) said the bill would SAVE the government money?! It's because even though we will spend a lot to get more people insured, the federal government will be decreasing funding to hosptials for EMTALA and other uncompensated care. Instead, since everyone will have insurance, the hospitals can bill the companies (or Medicaid/Medicare). There is a net savings because:

1. Uninsured people who are now required to buy insurance will no longer be getting a free ride from the government (instead they have to buy insurance)

2. Uninsured people who qualify for the Medicaid extension to 133% of the poverty level (something like $30,000) will still be getting the free ride. However, they will have insurance to go see a primary care physician and obtain preventative care as opposed to only getting care in the ER which is MUCH more expensive. Therefore the government is saving money by paying for preventative care, instead of emergent care. (I know you might be thinking about providing NO care, but that's ethically questionable, and I don't think docs and nurses would just let people die if they came into an ER)

Here's a scenario I heard from an ER doc on NPR:

Prior to reform:
Melinda is a single mother of two making $28,000 a year working full-time. She needs blood pressure medication which costs $100 a month but she cannot afford it and doesn't qualify for Medicaid. Instead, 4 years later, she suffers a heart attack and goes to the ER receiving $50,000 of care paid for by the government or the ER. She dies, and the $50,000 of EMTALA required care dwarfs the cost to have just provided her with the "preventative" blood-pressure medication(in fact we could have purchased 40 years worth) to keep her from getting a heart attack.

After reform:
Melinda is a single mother of two making $28,000 a year working full-time. She needs blood pressure medication which costs $100 a month and is paid for by Medicaid, which she qualifies for under the new law. Medicaid pays for 20 years of medication costing $24,000 dollars. Eventually she either works her way up so she's no longer on Medicaid (makes more than $28,000/yr), retires, or dies. Either way the, cost to society is less if we take the preventative route, instead of paying for her ER visit.

Basically, poor people are drain, and they cost us money. We can let them die, but that's ethically f***ed. Giving them health insurance means that their money-grubbing is kept to a minimum.

Obviously in this anecdote n = 1. However if we apply this situation to a broader demographic, it's been shown that primary care is less expensive.

Wow I really digressed from EMTALA.

TL;DR: EMTALA has a noble purpose, but was warped. Now we've sort of remedied the situation. We'll see how it goes. Poor people are going to drain our money but we can't let them die, so let's just do the cheapest alternative, which is preventative care!
EMTALA was a horrible idea in the past....well sure how things go in the future now that healthcare reform has been passed. That still doesnt do away with the whole "need to be stabilized before transfer" part of EMTALA which still is causing issues.
 
EMTALA was a horrible idea in the past....well sure how things go in the future now that healthcare reform has been passed. That still doesnt do away with the whole "need to be stabilized before transfer" part of EMTALA which still is causing issues.

Yea you're right about the past, I just started righting about a bunch of other topics. Could you elaborate on how exactly the stabilization requirement causes issues? What problems do hospitals (public or private) face because of the requirement? Shouldn't we stabilize patients prior to transferring them? I'd just like some clarification.
 
Yea you're right about the past, I just started righting about a bunch of other topics. Could you elaborate on how exactly the stabilization requirement causes issues? What problems do hospitals (public or private) face because of the requirement? Shouldn't we stabilize patients prior to transferring them? I'd just like some clarification.

It basically stats that all patients should get proper stabilizing treatment before transfer to another facility. It also states that women in active labor cannot be transferred while in active labor.

This sounds all well and good....until you throw money grubbing trashy ER patients looking to sue you into the mix.

I cant remember the details of every case but what happens when:

You are an ER doc at a small community hospital without a NICU and a patient is brought to your ER in active labor. The patients baby is in severe trouble and you dont have the necessary equipment to keep said baby alive. You decide to make the transfer to a larger facility with a NICU. Baby is born en rte....mother and baby survive. But then mother turns around and sues you for making that transfer.

A patient is admitted through the ER and has an extended stay in the hospital. After a few weeks said patient is going to be discharged to another facility more equipped to handle their long term needs. Before discharge the patient spikes a fever and becomes septic. The attending discharges the patient to the other facility. The patients adult mother turns around and sues the hospital for an EMTALA violation.

So was that pt already stabilized by the ER? Or does the patient require additional stabilization before transfer before each event in their illness?

EMTALA screws over a lot of docs and hospitals and throws a ton of unnecessary legislation into the mix.
 
EMTALA has a noble purpose, but was warped. Now we've sort of remedied the situation.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Right.

I'm going to guess you've never actually worked in an ED.

For intelligent, experienced talk of EMTALA, visit

http://docsontheweb.blogspot.com/2009/05/answer-to-hugh-hewitt.html

http://docsontheweb.blogspot.com/2010/08/specialist-wall.html

and browse around the site for more relevant entries. This site is humorous, yes, but almost always right on-target regarding policies and practices.
 
EMTALA ensures that no one is denied life saving care due to lack of insurance, or lack of proof of insurance. Alternatively, people could just walk into an ER and die after being denied care, and I think many people would have an ethical problem with that. EMTALA not only prevents this from occurring, it also provides legislative rationale for Congress to provide funding to ER departments across the country who would otherwise have to pay for this themselves.


I hate to break it to you, but your statements about the purpose and effect of EMTALA are incorrect. EMTALA is not funded, rather, the funding that Congress gave to hospitals before EMTALA went into effect was used as a lever to get hospitals to participate. The people who pay for EMTALA are the hospital, the ER physicians, and the patients that do have insurance.

The recent healthcare reform bill remedies this situation by requiring all individuals to have healthcare insurance. This will give greater access to actual primary care and prevention, so less people seek care in the ER, or wait until their condition is so bad that they are faced with an emergent care situation.

Did you ever wonder why the Congressional Budget Office (non-partisan btw) said the bill would SAVE the government money?! It's because even though we will spend a lot to get more people insured, the federal government will be decreasing funding to hosptials for EMTALA and other uncompensated care. Instead, since everyone will have insurance, the hospitals can bill the companies (or Medicaid/Medicare). There is a net savings because:

1. Uninsured people who are now required to buy insurance will no longer be getting a free ride from the government (instead they have to buy insurance)

2. Uninsured people who qualify for the Medicaid extension to 133% of the poverty level (something like $30,000) will still be getting the free ride. However, they will have insurance to go see a primary care physician and obtain preventative care as opposed to only getting care in the ER which is MUCH more expensive. Therefore the government is saving money by paying for preventative care, instead of emergent care. (I know you might be thinking about providing NO care, but that's ethically questionable, and I don't think docs and nurses would just let people die if they came into an ER)
Again, the government won't be decreasing reimbursements to hospitals under EMTALA now that the new health care bill has been passed, because the government currently pays them nothing for it. Although I agree with you in theory that more insured people means better access to health care, there is no guarantee that such is true. With the decreasing numbers of general practitioners in the country, there's a good chance that it will still be very difficult for people insured under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act to find primary care. Keep in mind, too, that even if the patient has insurance and finds a primary care doctor, the doctor might not want to take on that patient if they have multiple comorbidities.

The only way that the new health care system will lower costs to emergency departments is by (hopefully) virtually eliminating non-paying patients who previously were a major drag on the system. This will occur because those previously non-paying patients will now have insurance, and be able to pay. In theory, anyway.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Right.

I'm going to guess you've never actually worked in an ED.

For intelligent, experienced talk of EMTALA, visit

http://docsontheweb.blogspot.com/2009/05/answer-to-hugh-hewitt.html

http://docsontheweb.blogspot.com/2010/08/specialist-wall.html

and browse around the site for more relevant entries. This site is humorous, yes, but almost always right on-target regarding policies and practices.

I work in an ED and completely disagree with the above.
 
I work in an ED and completely disagree with the above.

As you posted elsewhere:
"For me specifically I mentioned my prior lack of clinical hours, but that I now was addressing this by making up for it this summer (I have a job in an ER now)."

So you've been working in an ED for...what? 4 weeks?

Message me in 4 years, and then I'd like to hear your educated, experienced opinion. But for now, don't act like you know better than the docs posting on that blog, who've been in the biz for 20+ years.
 
As you posted elsewhere:
"For me specifically I mentioned my prior lack of clinical hours, but that I now was addressing this by making up for it this summer (I have a job in an ER now)."

So you've been working in an ED for...what? 4 weeks?

Message me in 4 years, and then I'd like to hear your educated, experienced opinion. But for now, don't act like you know better than the docs posting on that blog, who've been in the biz for 20+ years.

Don't start with a cocky tone and then get all pissy when someone fires it back at you-- how you approach people, and yes, even the tone of your posts in internet forums, will impact how they come back at you 🙂

My post was intended to show that the one sided picture you paint of ER doc's opinions on this topic is a far cry from how many ER doc's view it in reality. I've worked in an ED for 3 months now and had many discussions with many of the more experienced as well as less experienced doctors and PA's. When asked about the topic, there are many who express views completely opposite to what your one slanted website professes. These aren't fresh outta school med students I'm talking about (which, without perusing your 1k+ posts, is where I'm assuming you are at, or perhaps just getting to), but veteran doc's with way more than the 20+ or whatever years your one website blogger has. There are two sides to the coin here, and if you're just going to act like there's one ultimately correct view, don't get taken aback when someone flips it to the other side.
 
As you posted elsewhere:
"For me specifically I mentioned my prior lack of clinical hours, but that I now was addressing this by making up for it this summer (I have a job in an ER now)."

So you've been working in an ED for...what? 4 weeks?

Message me in 4 years, and then I'd like to hear your educated, experienced opinion. But for now, don't act like you know better than the docs posting on that blog, who've been in the biz for 20+ years.

Yeah, I've been working in an ED for only two months, myself, and I can say that that blog has pretty good insight (though it's not like you have to be extraordinarily observant to see it yourself)... In my time in the ED, I've seen plenty of of the same stuff the writers on that blog discuss--perhaps not as frequently or with the same intensity, but definitely in more subtle ways that is easy to pick up on with just a little time in the ED. It's also incredibly easy to pick up on it when you have a host of sharply cynical docs who obviously didn't start that way...

Now, I am no expert, and I'm not even in medical school yet, so obviously my opinions are relatively ignorant and not overly educated, but I don't think it's that hard to see.
 
Prior to reform:
Melinda is a single mother of two making $28,000 a year working full-time. She needs blood pressure medication which costs $100 a month but she cannot afford it and doesn't qualify for Medicaid. Instead, 4 years later, she suffers a heart attack and goes to the ER receiving $50,000 of care paid for by the government or the ER. She dies, and the $50,000 of EMTALA required care dwarfs the cost to have just provided her with the "preventative" blood-pressure medication(in fact we could have purchased 40 years worth) to keep her from getting a heart attack.

After reform:
Melinda is a single mother of two making $28,000 a year working full-time. She needs blood pressure medication which costs $100 a month and is paid for by Medicaid, which she qualifies for under the new law. Medicaid pays for 20 years of medication costing $24,000 dollars. Eventually she either works her way up so she's no longer on Medicaid (makes more than $28,000/yr), retires, or dies. Either way the, cost to society is less if we take the preventative route, instead of paying for her ER visit.
Better idea: Melinda goes to Wal-mart and buys any one of a number of anti-hypertensives for $4/month (instead of cigarettes/soda/candy), and we all benefit. She's paying for her own treatment and has a sense of ownership in her care. It's proven that people who pay for things treat those things better than people who get them for free.

Plus, going 4 years without an anti-hypertensive will cause an MI? really?
 
Top