When do adcom read secondaries & does GPA matter much after cutoff?

[psswrd]

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[jeghaber]

Trying to figure out the process a little bit here....

I've been following the forums and someone once said that adcom members don't read the secondaries until after the interview. Is this true?

Also, how much does GPA matter after you get through the initial cut off? If you had an interview, would adcom ever say "good interview, but their GPA is lower than school average..." ?

Cheers!

Though the process differs between schools, most schools, I believe, read secondaries before IIs. Some schools, however, will only read your LORs after your interview (anyone remember which school(s) this was?).

GPAs still matter to a certain extent (Two applicants with equally "qualified" and with equally excellent interviews and one has a significantly higher GPA. What would you do as an Adcom?), but keep in mind HALF the matriculating students will have GPAs below the school's average, meaning it doesn't make sense for schools to reject you simply because it's below their average.

 

[ThunderBear]

Pretty sure the adcoms read your secondaries before they invite you to the interviews. I'd like to think your entire application (grades, MCAT, essays, LORs) are used to determine whether you get an interview invite or not.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I think for the most part, everything is on the table at all times.

 

[psswrd]

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[Lucky Louie]

Of course the schools will read your secondaries before you interview. Whether they read that before they offer an option to interview, I don't know. It's clearly school-dependent.

 

[Radon XP]

Thanks, that was helpful.

I'm a waaaay better applicant when considered as a whole, beyond numbers. I worry because schools get tons of applications and reviewers are super busy, sometimes too busy to look past the numbers.

It depends on how low of a GPA you're talking about.

By the by, would trying to explain (in secondaries) low GPA in certain semesters look bad?

If it's a medical or family emergency, or something along those lines, then no, it won't look bad if you explain the situation (especially if you did well otherwise).

 

[pachewisc]

When schools read secondaries: most every adcom reads them before offering an interview, once you've passed through screening. They may be read by your interviewers beforehand, and they will be reread by the adcom before they make a post-interview decision.

GPA mattering after cutoff: DEFINITELY! Let's say a school's cutoff is 3.2 and >8s on subsections. Just because applicants pass the screening doesn't mean they'll all be viewed equally moving forth. A 3.3/27 applicant is certainly going to be viewed differently than a 3.9/40 applicant. Cutoffs are typically much lower (less than the bottom 10th percentile) than school matriculant averages.

By the by, would trying to explain (in secondaries) low GPA in certain semesters look bad?

Pretty much every secondary will have an "additional comments" section. If they haven't already asked you about grades (some secondaries do), you can take this space to discuss a bad semester. I'd really only advise this if it (A) was after freshman year (lower grades freshman year are typically overlooked) and (B) you had an extenuating circumstance that caused the grade drop (not simply that you were busy with other things, too hard/many classes, etc.).

 

[psswrd]

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[Espadaleader]

Duke doesn't look at letters until after interview invite.

 

[Plue00]

Though the process differs between schools, most schools, I believe, read secondaries before IIs. Some schools, however, will only read your LORs after your interview (anyone remember which school(s) this was?).

GPAs still matter to a certain extent (Two applicants with equally "qualified" and with equally excellent interviews and one has a significantly higher GPA. What would you do as an Adcom?), but keep in mind HALF the matriculating students will have GPAs below the school's average, meaning it doesn't make sense for schools to reject you simply because it's below their average.

I think you mean median

 

[talinnlove]

Just wanted to add this in case anyone is interested: https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data

The green-shaded chart on the second page gives a general idea of how important each part of the application is at the pre- and post-interview stage. Looks like GPA, MCAT, and LORs are most important at the pre-interview stage, in that order, but LORs become more important than GPA post-interview.

The data is super general and not broken down by school, but it's something else to think about at least!

 

[psswrd]

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[TheShaker]

Just wanted to add this in case anyone is interested: https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data

The green-shaded chart on the second page gives a general idea of how important each part of the application is at the pre- and post-interview stage. Looks like GPA, MCAT, and LORs are most important at the pre-interview stage, in that order, but LORs become more important than GPA post-interview.

The data is super general and not broken down by school, but it's something else to think about at least!

Interesting that experience with the underserved is the lowest even though many secondaries and interviews ask about it at some point.

 

[inycepoo]

Though the process differs between schools, most schools, I believe, read secondaries before IIs. Some schools, however, will only read your LORs after your interview (anyone remember which school(s) this was?).

GPAs still matter to a certain extent (Two applicants with equally "qualified" and with equally excellent interviews and one has a significantly higher GPA. What would you do as an Adcom?), but keep in mind HALF the matriculating students will have GPAs below the school's average, meaning it doesn't make sense for schools to reject you simply because it's below their average.

No, that is not how averages work. You are thinking of medians. You have zero clue of the sample size's skewness without the median.

 

[jeghaber]

No, that is not how averages work. You are thinking of medians. You have zero clue of the sample size's skewness without the median.

👍 Definitely true; I was assuming a normal distribution of GPA. But you're right, if I had to take a guess as to what the GPA distribution would look like, I'd predict a negative skew, which would mean the median was higher than the mean, and thus implying more than half of matriculants have GPAs lower than the average. Of course, if the distribution was positively skewed (I don't imagine it being that way, but someone can and should definitely correct me if they have data 😛), it would be the opposite.

 

[inycepoo]

👍 Definitely true; I was assuming a normal distribution of GPA. But you're right, if I had to take a guess as to what the GPA distribution would look like, I'd predict a negative skew, which would mean the median was higher than the mean, and thus implying more than half of matriculants have GPAs lower than the average. Of course, if the distribution was positively skewed (I don't imagine it being that way, but someone can and should definitely correct me if they have data 😛), it would be the opposite.

But d00d. If it's a negative skew (and that's the case more often than not), suppose the mean is 3.8 and median 3.9, then that means 50% are below 3.9, 50% above 3.9. How's it possible then that more than 50% are below 3.8, the mean?

(3.8/3.9 is typical of top 10 schools)

 

[jeghaber]

But d00d. If it's a negative skew (and that's the case more often than not), suppose the mean is 3.8 and median 3.9, then that means 50% are below 3.9, 50% above 3.9. How's it possible then that more than 50% are below 3.8, the mean?

(3.8/3.9 is typical of top 10 schools)

Oh the heat has melted my brainz. How embarrassing. I'll have to get into some A/C before I send any of these secondaries off 😛

 

[inycepoo]

Oh the heat has melted my brainz. How embarrassing. I'll have to get into some A/C before I send any of these secondaries off 😛

Iz ok brohan. Public libraryz r realz comfy.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Also, how much does GPA matter after you get through the initial cut off? If you had an interview, would adcom ever say "good interview, but their GPA is lower than school average..." ?

Yes, the person that selected you for an interview and the person that interviewed you, even though they both may really like you, they may not be the same person who has the final say on acceptance. This person could very well be like, "why did we even interview this person? rejected."

 

[circulus vitios]

Yes, the person that selected you for an interview and the person that interviewed you, even though they both may really like you, they may not be the same person who has the final say on acceptance. This person could very well be like, "why did we even interview this person? rejected."

I hope those people lose their jobs for causing an applicant to spend hundreds of dollars on plane tickets and hotels for a hopeless interview.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

I hope those people lose their jobs for causing an applicant to spend hundreds of dollars on plane tickets and hotels for a hopeless interview.

I know it sucks but it happens. the final committee for acceptance could have one person who doesn't like your app even after your awesome interview