When is a letter of intent bad?

[Hzreio]

Does anyone know of examples of when a letter intent hurt an applicants chances?

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[GoPenguinsGo]

When you send it to the wrong school.

 

[candbgirl]

When you send one and the school doesn’t accept them.
When you send the LOI to several schools.😞

 

[mvsrocks]

When you send multiple to the point where it gets annoying.

 

[Hzreio]

The main reason I do not advise students to send one is they are poorly written
1) Many sound far too whiny and desperate under the general theme "oh please let me in"
2) There seems to be a lack of basic proof reading or getting someone else's opinion before you send under what seems to be "this is just a short letter."
3) Then there are those that are way, way too long rehashing their entire application.
4) Most do not contain any good reasons or argument as to why they should take you, specifically why you would be a good fit for the school or why the school would be a good fit for school. Something that has already been expressed in application and interview and therefore shows a consistent pattern.

So essentially, you believe most students turn it into a "Why us" secondary essay?

 

[ingobingo]

The main reason I do not advise students to send one is they are poorly written
1) Many sound far too whiny and desperate under the general theme "oh please let me in"
2) There seems to be a lack of basic proof reading or getting someone else's opinion before you send under what seems to be "this is just a short letter."
3) Then there are those that are way, way too long rehashing their entire application.
4) Most do not contain any good reasons or argument as to why they should take you, specifically why you would be a good fit for the school or why the school would be a good fit for school. Something that has already been expressed in application and interview and therefore shows a consistent pattern.

What about LOIs to schools that specifically ask for them? How does an exception LOI read?

 

[Hzreio]

No , I believe most student say vague platitudes while pleading and begging. Finding an LOI of reasonable substance is in the minority

Which is worse, no LOI or a bad LOI? To create an exceptional LOI, you must be prepared for it before you ever apply. Why do I say that? Most applicants do not present a consistent pattern or theme(s) across their EC, PS, Secondaries and LOI. You need to make sure to show why you fit this this particular school from the start, thru both a preponderance of evidence and direct narrative. This must be followed to LOI. Else you are just a student begging for an acceptance

Is it bad to be a student begging for an acceptance?

 

[Goro]

Is it bad to be a student begging for an acceptance?

0/10 for trolling.

But as your your OP, read these:
Here’s one Adcom member’s thoughts on the matter:

“We only invite amazing students to interview. It is quite unlikely that further good deeds or achievements will have an effect since only the students who have already wowed us are interviewed.”


See the following for classic examples of why most Admissions deans treat these as lies.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/loi-and-interviews.1252832/#post-18849958

I told a school I'd go if accepted, now not so sure

Hi All, So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both...

forums.studentdoctor.net

And if you still don’t believe me, read these:

HomeSkool's Guide to Letters of Intent

Second letter of intent? Help!

 

[r2med]

Are there examples of people who sent LOI and got rejected or are all these theories?

 

[candbgirl]

Are there examples of people who sent LOI and got rejected or are all these theories?

I’m sure that there are. If you read the school specific threads and probably threads right here, you’ll find people who said they wrote of LOI and it did no go or they never heard back or were outright rejected within a couple of days.. Just the same as you’ll find people who say “I sent a LOI and two days later I was accepted”. Whether any of these results were because of a LOI there is no way of knowing. But the futility of sending LOIs is pretty well documented across SDN.

 

[GoPenguinsGo]

Are there examples of people who sent LOI and got rejected or are all these theories?

Why dont you be our lab rat and send an LOI to the wrong school (mentioning the other school by name in the LOI) and report back to us and let us know how it goes for you?

 

[r2med]

I’m sure that there are. If you read the school specific threads and probably threads right here, you’ll find people who said they wrote of LOI and it did no go or they never heard back or were outright rejected within a couple of days.. Just the same as you’ll find people who say “I sent a LOI and two days later I was accepted”. Whether any of these results were because of a LOI there is no way of knowing. But the futility of sending LOIs is pretty well documented across SDN.

I believe the futility is documented as opinions rather than facts.

 

[r2med]

Why dont you be our lab rat and send an LOI to the wrong school (mentioning the other school by name in the LOI) and report back to us and let us know how it goes for you?

Right back at you!

 

[GoPenguinsGo]

Right back at you!

I’m not the one who asked if these are just conjectures.

 

[r2med]

I’m not the one who asked if these are just conjectures.

Not about sending wrong LOI to the wrong spot. Some of the posts referred on this post are talking about sending LOI itself is bad and futile.

 

[Goro]

I believe the futility is documented as opinions rather than facts.

The "opinions" you refer to are coming from Adcom members and even some Admissions Deans.

 

[r2med]

The "opinions" you refer to are coming from Adcom members and even some Admissions Deans.

I mean to show no disrespect to anyone, but am looking for some facts. I sincerely hope that is not disallowed or construed as disrespect. If it does, I will gladly remove my request.

 

[Goro]

I mean to show no disrespect to anyone, but am looking for some facts. I sincerely hope that is not disallowed or construed as disrespect. If it does, I will gladly remove my request.

This is not something that can be quantified. It's experiential.

You may be surprised to learn that a lot of Medicine is like this.

 

[r2med]

This is not something that can be quantified. It's experiential.

You may be surprised to learn that a lot of Medicine is like this.

In the interest of not hijcaking this thread any longer, I will stop, but when we claim LOI is bad - even if it is experiential, there still should be numbers. X number LOIs were sent of which Y had good content of which Z led to good outcomes. As always, this admissions process - UG and Med - is a blackhole - and so it shall be!

 

[Hzreio]

0/10 for trolling.

But as your your OP, read these:
Here’s one Adcom member’s thoughts on the matter:

“We only invite amazing students to interview. It is quite unlikely that further good deeds or achievements will have an effect since only the students who have already wowed us are interviewed.”


See the following for classic examples of why most Admissions deans treat these as lies.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/loi-and-interviews.1252832/#post-18849958

I told a school I'd go if accepted, now not so sure

Hi All, So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both...

forums.studentdoctor.net

And if you still don’t believe me, read these:

HomeSkool's Guide to Letters of Intent

Second letter of intent? Help!

I’m not trolling lol

I asked “when are LOI’s bad” the answer I got was “people writing LOI’s are will be seen as people begging for acceptances”. Your answer was “adcoms don’t trust LOI’s.”

That doesn’t really answer my initial question asking when/how LOI’s can actively reduce your chances barring some of the obvious things like submitting to more than one school, etc.

 

[Goro]

I’m not trolling lol

I asked “when are LOI’s bad” the answer I got was “people writing LOI’s are will be seen as people begging for acceptances”. Your answer was “adcoms don’t trust LOI’s.”

That doesn’t really answer my initial question asking when/how LOI’s can actively reduce your chances barring some of the obvious things like submitting to more than one school, etc.

I'm really worried about you Hz. If you cannot understand what we're telling, which you yourself have summarized above, then there's nothing more to discuss.

 

[Hzreio]

I'm really worried about you Hz. If you cannot understand what we're telling, which you yourself have summarized above, then there's nothing more to discuss.

What are you worried about?

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but perhaps I was a little too overly optimistic that you might express a more moderate opinion on sending LOIs. What Im gathering from you, to answer my question, is that all LOI's are bad and will irregardlessly hurt your chances if you send one. But this is somewhat confusing to me since schools are known to accept or even encourage them.

 

[Goro]

What are you worried about?

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but perhaps I was a little too overly optimistic that you might express a more moderate opinion on sending LOIs. What Im gathering from you, to answer my question, is that all LOI's are bad and will irregardlessly hurt your chances if you send one. But this is somewhat confusing to me since schools are known to accept or even encourage them.

There are a handful of needy schools, and/or those that like seeing people grovel. They're outliers, and so when a school specifically states that they welcome LOIs, then send them. But if they don't say anything about it, don't bother.

 

[KnightDoc]

In the interest of not hijcaking this thread any longer, I will stop, but when we claim LOI is bad - even if it is experiential, there still should be numbers. X number LOIs were sent of which Y had good content of which Z led to good outcomes. As always, this admissions process - UG and Med - is a blackhole - and so it shall be!

As you have correctly noted, a lot of admissions is a black hole. This is why SDN participation by actual adcom members is so valuable and so welcome. Unfortunately, while your points are great, the precision you seek doesn't exist.

What we know, however, from extensive reporting over many years on SDN, is that many people send LOIs every year while many other people don't. We also know that many people receive a positive admission result after sending such letters while many others don't. Moreover, we know that many people who don't send LOIs also ultimately receive As while others don't.

Cause and effect? Maybe in some cases, but no one can clearly document that, so absolutely nobody can knowledgeably tell you that a letter led to a good outcome. They can only tell you that they sent a letter and later achieved a good outcome. Lots of people who didn't send a letter can say the same.

Finally, people in a position to know (adcoms) say they are worthless because they are not binding and are often insincere, so they carry no weight in most cases, except at a few schools where they are actually encouraged. As to the OP's question about them actually hurting, that's probably pretty rare, but anyone would acknowledge that a poorly written letter can hurt, as can one with typos, referencing the wrong school, etc.

So, the question then becomes, is it smart to create a point of contact that we are told carries little to no weight but comes with the risk of hurting if it's not well written? When put like that, most people would think the answer is obvious, and yet, they send them every year because they become anxious, feel like they have to do something, and think even if it doesn't help, it can't hurt. And the resounding answer from the adcoms has consistently been that this is just not necessarily true.

So, the better answer is probably not that they are bad, but that they can potentially hurt and are, for the most part with a few exceptions, unlikely to help. Beyond that, there is no precise, empirical answer, so YMMV! 😎

 

[RJ McReady]

My opinion only, but based on facts and personal experience. An LOI will never hurt you. It will either help, or be ignored.
so if you feel like sending one and you can craft it well, by all means I would do so.

 

[tunaktunak]

My opinion only, but based on facts and personal experience. An LOI will never hurt you. It will either help, or be ignored.
so if you feel like sending one and you can craft it well, by all means I would do so.

I know a lot of people on here will disagree with this, but I think this is accurate. If the LOI is professional and well-written it can only boost your chances (or have no effect). The only time there would be a bad outcome if the school specifically asks that applicants do NOT send any updates whatsoever (I think Penn State is one example of this).