When patients get out of hand/violent and adrenalin!?

[whopper]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I really dont think someone with such poor people skills combined with such outragous opionioned positions could make it through med school.

Oh its pretty easy IMHO. This forum's given this guy an outlet to show his true colors because he doesn't have to reveal who he really is. In real life he doesn't have the courage to show it. I've seen plenty of people with great scores get into medschool, and they weren't exactly the best of people.

While in residency, I've seen 2 residents get kicked out that made it through medschool--had good LORs. Both residents violated the rules to the point where if the rules were enforced to the maximum--they could've been put in prison (failed to show up to duty without informing the program--that could be considered a violation of duty, the other frequently falsely accused others of very heinous acts such as rape). These people made it through medschool.

There is a certain amount of ass-kissing, social navigations, and social niceities that allow people to progress from student to master.

Yeah, and there's a bunch of evil people willing to do butt kissing to get ahead. I'm sure you've seen that. The internet affords trolls anonymity. If this guy really believed in his ideology, he'd be willing to put his name on posts.

I've defended people that have questioned psychiatry so long as they didn't do any below the belt attacks. Several well meaning people do not understand our field, or have questions about it they'd like answered.

This guy don't do that. There's a difference between being Hawkeye from MASH & going against the grain because its the right thing. Its another thing to go against the grain because you got issues.

 

[GH253]

Trust me, there is nothing professors and supervisors hate worse than the guy who always wants his opnion to be known because he thinks it sooooo valuable. Alot of med school is just shutting up and doing what you're told (at least in the beggining), and I dont think this guy could do that. My opinion anyway.

This is the most valuable insight I've recieved on the subject yet. Yes, I think I could keep my mouth shut when circumstances call for silence. But this is a message board. The whole point of the internet is to debate. You just say I'm out of line because you dislike my opinions, which is pretty infantlie IMO.

 

[erg923]

Oh its pretty easy IMHO. This forum's given this guy an outlet to show his true colors because he doesn't have to reveal who he really is. In real life he doesn't have the courage to show it. I've seen plenty of people with great scores get into medschool, and they weren't exactly the best of people.

Well I was speaking more of geting out of med school and through a residencey. One has to "play nice" to a certain extent to get there. Like I said, professors and superviors hate the bloviating, overly opinionated types. Combine that with the fact that he openly admits that he has poor social/people skills, and im not sure who would give him a rec. At least in psychology, professors base alot of their rec letter not just on their opnion of you, but also your peers opinion of you. How you interact, how you cooperate, and how you work with your peers. I would think the teamwork element would be just as important in med school/residencey as in clinical psych, but maybe im wrong. I just think that would be a big obstacle for him. And you may be right, alot times these people can keep it togther in person, so long as they can vent ananomously on an internet message board.

All this talk makes me yearn for the golden era of personality research complete with big fancey circumplexes. Unfortunatley, it died in the 80s with the intro of the big five.

 

[erg923]

This is the most valuable insight I've recieved on the subject yet. You just say I'm out of line because you dislike my opinions, which is pretty infantlie IMO.

Umm..thanks?...I guess that is his version of a compliment?

Better get to work on those PC people skills buddy..its a start though I suppose. Good work!

 

[whopper]

. One has to "play nice" to a certain extent to get there.

Oh boy--all the idiot attendings I've seen. Yeah you are right--the medschool & residency process will get rid of some (and unfortunately some of those were good people), but I've seen my fair share of idiot attendings.

E.g. Person has Bipolar and the person is being treated with Topamax & Neurontin. Show me the data that suggests that these should be used as first line meds for Bipolar? No matter the field--you'll always find some good & bad.

so long as they can vent ananomously on an internet message board.

I know a guy who literally has Paranoid Personality Disorder, thinks people of certain races should be put in concentration camps, yada yada yada, but has a job as an aerospace engineer, and just keeps his mouth shut. Then while on the internet, he bloviates his opinions. Well, at least that guy was willing to give his name, though he never advocated anything illegal so I let it be. The fact that he gave his name out only showed his sincerity in his strange opinions.

Another guy I knew was a resident with Paranoid Personality DO, and he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut. I'm sure he'll make it through the program. He has enough self control, though I doubt he'll be able to find much happiness.

At least in psychology, professors base alot of their rec letter not just on their opnion of you, but also your peers opinion of you.

Medschool IMHO is focused 99% on grades, 1% everything else. IMHO, those with some of the less than stellar grades were actually more balanced people. Psychology is different. Psychologists are trained to monitor behavior, while the doctors interviewing pre-meds have hardly any psychological/psychiatric experience. However society believes that only good people end up going into medical school. If they only knew, and knew of the strange behaviors several doctors do.

student x has an MCAT 35, 3.9 GPA, and you got not indication that he's a good person is going to look 100x better than student y with an MCAT 29, 3.3 GPA who spends 10 hrs a week doing community service, got a purple heart, and donates 10% of his income to charity in the eyes of an admissions board,yet both people with such academic scores are competely capable of being good doctors in terms of passing the tests.

 

[mamablotto]

How do you keep calm and collected during those situations with patients? When is it more comfortable to handle these situations; a few weeks, a few months?

where do you usually give a Haldol injection? Do you have a site preference? Does the medication sting?




ps: I'm taking Nursing Pharmacology this semester and I'm totally excited. I really enjoyed it in MA school.

 

[erg923]

Oh boy--all the idiot attendings I've seen. Yeah you are right--the medschool & residency process will get rid of some (and unfortunately some of those were good people), but I've seen my fair share of idiot attendings.

Well yes, good point, but there are plentry of rude psychologists out there too. But I know that each and every one of them had to play the nice submissive agreebale puppy and engage in all the niceties during their graduate training or else they would have gotten any recs. But again, I think when your fellow med students and peers dont like you, that is big red flag as well. Mybe not for med school, but in my dicipiline it is.

 

[Regnvejr]

Well yes, good point, but there are plentry of rude psychologists out there too. But I know that each and every one of them had to play the nice submissive agreebale puppy and engage in all the niceties during their graduate training or else they would have gotten any recs.

But then, psychology graduate schools tend to be a lot more dysfunctional than medical school. I do feel that once someone graduated a Psychology doctorate program, they've been through a lot more hell than medical school ever dished out.

 

[whopper]

but there are plentry of rude psychologists out there too

True--good & bad in every field.

In fact, I'm being a bad husband right now by spending too much time on this forum, and not attending to my wife....

G'night y'all!

 

[GH253]

Oh its pretty easy IMHO. This forum's given this guy an outlet to show his true colors because he doesn't have to reveal who he really is. In real life he doesn't have the courage to show it. I've seen plenty of people with great scores get into medschool, and they weren't exactly the best of people.

While in residency, I've seen 2 residents get kicked out that made it through medschool--had good LORs. Both residents violated the rules to the point where if the rules were enforced to the maximum--they could've been put in prison (failed to show up to duty without informing the program--that could be considered a violation of duty, the other frequently falsely accused others of very heinous acts such as rape). These people made it through medschool.

There's another type of person who frequently makes it through med school: the type who should be mowing lawns and digging ditches instead. The type who has blind faith in his educators and, for all his years of schooling, still lacks the capacity to exercise independent, rational judgment. The DSM-IV says so, or the law says so, so he accepts it as correct and moral. By far the most dangerous type of physician.

If this guy really believed in his ideology, he'd be willing to put his name on posts.

I really have no problem putting my name on my posts, I just don't want to give you the satisfaction of getting a concession from me which you are not entitled to. It's a red herring and an ad hominem and I am not going to endorse your logical fallacies by giving you what you want. Put your name on your ******ed posts if identity is so important to you.

I've defended people that have questioned psychiatry so long as they didn't do any below the belt attacks. Several well meaning people do not understand our field, or have questions about it they'd like answered.

This guy don't do that. There's a difference between being Hawkeye from MASH & going against the grain because its the right thing. Its another thing to go against the grain because you got issues.

In other words, you are the supreme arbiter of which opinions are acceptable and which constitute bannable offenes to express. A mentality perfectly consistent with the authoritarian ideology common among psychiatrists. I despise people who argue for universal healthcare by saying that doctors don't need to make high incomes. I tear them to shreds in debate, expose them for the fools that they are, but never demand that they be banned. Your desire to censor competing philosophies betrays the weakness of your own position.

 

[erg923]

But then, psychology graduate schools tend to be a lot more dysfunctional than medical school. I do feel that once someone graduated a Psychology doctorate program, they've been through a lot more hell than medical school ever dished out.

Interestring view. Although dissertation and dealing with the peer reviewers at journals is enough to drive a person mad, we still have it easier than you guys. I dont ever work 80+ hours/week, and its unusual to have a patient die on you.😉 My wife and i get to have dinner together eveynite and my sundays are for surfing in santa cruz.....😎

 

[Regnvejr]

Interestring view. Although dissertation and dealing with the peer reviewers at journals is enough to drive a person mad, we still have it easier than you guys. I dont ever work 80+ hours/week, and it unsual to have a patient die on you.😉 My wife and i get to have dinner together eveynite and my sundays are for surfing in santa cruz.....😎

Ah, but your thesis and dissertation chair/committee essentially holds your degree hostage. If they are not well-balanced persons, and took the academia job only because they failed real life, then........

Sorry, didn't mean to give you nightmares.

 

[Faebinder]

But then, psychology graduate schools tend to be a lot more dysfunctional than medical school. I do feel that once someone graduated a Psychology doctorate program, they've been through a lot more hell than medical school ever dished out.

I don't know which and when did you go to med school... but after being on Q2 24 hrs on/off for 1 month trauma in surgery... it's hard not to think the world is evil. I hope Psychology programs are not doing that, cause that's what it sounds like from here.

 

[whopper]

How do you keep calm and collected during those situations with patients? When is it more comfortable to handle these situations; a few weeks, a few months?

There's plenty of things that can be done.

First, avoid a situation that can get violent to begin with. If someone is upset, try to find out why, address their concerns (if possible & reasonable). If they are frustrated, though not yet agitated due to psychosis or mania, offer medication before it gets violent.

If things do get violent, there's several techniques--e.g. a code can be called, and all the staff approach the person. When one has 40 people surrounding him, it often times defuses the situation. Security can show up, medication offered etc.

Also you need to keep yourself from getting into a bad situation to begin with. Never see patients alone in a room with the door closed. Always try to have your body between the patient & the closest door.

All in all, things do get violent from time to time, but people rarely get physically hurt if you watch what you're doing and follow your training. Where I did residency, a violent act only occurred once every few months. Several of the would be violent acts were prevented because the staff had the right training. Of those violent acts that did occur, over 90% of the time no one got hurt because people followed the right procedures.

If you have not done your psych rotation yet, I hope you will get trained in several of these basic techniques to prevent a violent situation, and to avoid getting hurt if violence does occur.

Overall, I'd compare it to driving a car. You shouldn't be worried & fearful at every moment, but you do need to keep your eye on the road and follow the rules.

(Of course my experience in a forensic psychiatric institution has been different. There has been violence about every few days--but we got multiple units in this place-10 each holding 28 people, 6 of which are forensic units--and we got the most violent of the violent all stacked up under one roof. This is certainly something on the extreme vs the regular psychiatric inpatient population).

 

[Doc Samson]

There's another type of person who frequently makes it through med school: the type who should be mowing lawns and digging ditches instead. The type who has blind faith in his educators and, for all his years of schooling, still lacks the capacity to exercise independent, rational judgment. The DSM-IV says so, or the law says so, so he accepts it as correct and moral. By far the most dangerous type of physician.



I really have no problem putting my name on my posts, I just don't want to give you the satisfaction of getting a concession from me which you are not entitled to. It's a red herring and an ad hominem and I am not going to endorse your logical fallacies by giving you what you want. Put your name on your ******ed posts if identity is so important to you.



In other words, you are the supreme arbiter of which opinions are acceptable and which constitute bannable offenes to express. A mentality perfectly consistent with the authoritarian ideology common among psychiatrists. I despise people who argue for universal healthcare by saying that doctors don't need to make high incomes. I tear them to shreds in debate, expose them for the fools that they are, but never demand that they be banned. Your desire to censor competing philosophies betrays the weakness of your own position.

Blah, blah, blah. Here's where the rubber meets the road:

You are apparently planning on going to medical school. You feel involuntary psychiatric commitment is a crime against humanity. To graduate from medical school you must do a minimum of 6 weeks of psychiatry. You will likely do this on an inpatient unit. Patients there will be there involuntarily. So, you're either going to participate in an act that you (IMO wrongly) perceive as a crime against humanity, or you will not make it past 3rd year of medical school.

Even if you find a way to avoid inpatient psychiatry, the chance of avoiding an involunatry patient in any university psychiatric setting over 6 weeks approaches zero. So what's the plan?

 

[GH253]

Blah, blah, blah. Here's where the rubber meets the road:

You are apparently planning on going to medical school. You feel involuntary psychiatric commitment is a crime against humanity. To graduate from medical school you must do a minimum of 6 weeks of psychiatry. You will likely do this on an inpatient unit. Patients there will be there involuntarily. So, you're either going to participate in an act that you (IMO wrongly) perceive as a crime against humanity, or you will not make it past 3rd year of medical school.

Even if you find a way to avoid inpatient psychiatry, the chance of avoiding an involunatry patient in any university psychiatric setting over 6 weeks approaches zero. So what's the plan?

I've thought about that a lot. It's going to be a terrible, but I intend to go through with it, with the understanding that I freely assume the risks involved. It's not innately immoral to participate in such a program if one is opposed to it and doesn't have the option of avoiding it. The patients will be better off under the care of a doctor who is sympathetic to their rights than a doctor who isn't. If someone attacks me, I will know that I have no right to complain, and will not come running to SDN for tips on restraining patients. But the blame for the incident will not be on me, it will be on the people who support abusive practices in psychiatry.

 

[Doc Samson]

I've thought about that a lot. It's going to be a terrible, but I intend to go through with it, with the understanding that I assume responsibility for the moral and physical hazards involved. It's not innately immoral to participate in such a program if one is opposed to it and doesn't have the option of avoiding it. The patients are better off under someone who is sympathetic to their rights than under someone who assumes the right to control them. But, if someone attacks me, I will know that I have no right to complain, and will not come running to SDN for tips on restraining patients.

Where's the courage of your convictions? I've known plenty of Catholic medical students who have refused to participate in abortions - why not raise your conscientious objector status with your dean?

Forecasting a little further into the future - no matter what specialty you end up in, you're likely to run into a patient reporting suicidal ideation at some point. If a patient is set on committing suicide they'll likely refuse voluntary inpatient psychiatric admission. Now, based on your beliefs, you're going to let them run off and kill themselves since you wouldn't want to interfere with their rights. Their family subsequently sues you for not following standard of practice. Your defense is "I don't believe in involuntary admission." You, of course, lose the malpractice case because you did not follow the standard of care resulting in clearly demonstrable harm. You now cannot find malpractice insurance because your beliefs conflict directly with standard of care.
Plan?

 

[billypilgrim37]

Could you help us understand your personal development of these feelings? You obviously have a very strong opinion on this matter, much stronger than most people would have bothered with. And you probably weren't born with these opinions.

Are there particular experiences, readings, media that helped shaped your views on the subject?

You're not going to find much sympathy for your viewpoint here. At the same time, I'd like to know how someone eventually comes to the conclusions that you've come to.

 

[GH253]

Where's the courage of your convictions? I've known plenty of Catholic medical students who have refused to participate in abortions - why not raise your conscientious objector status with your dean?

Forecasting a little further into the future - no matter what specialty you end up in, you're likely to run into a patient reporting suicidal ideation at some point. If a patient is set on committing suicide they'll likely refuse voluntary inpatient psychiatric admission. Now, based on your beliefs, you're going to let them run off and kill themselves since you wouldn't want to interfere with their rights. Their family subsequently sues you for not following standard of practice. Your defense is "I don't believe in involuntary admission." You, of course, lose the malpractice case because you did not follow the standard of care resulting in clearly demonstrable harm. You now cannot find malpractice insurance because your beliefs conflict directly with standard of care.
Plan?

The abortion analogy is a bad one because that is one of the most controversial issues in the world and also enjoys the protection of religious freedom, so medical students can refuse to participate in abortion without much fear of repercussion. No so with involuntary commitment. The choice is between participating and quitting med school, the latter of which is the greater evil. Therefore one should go through with it.

Regarding your hypothetical scenario, the physician should deny that the patient admitted suicidality, and make no mention of it in his notes, so that the family has no way of learning the truth. To be sure, that is an awful situation for both the physician and the family, but it is necessary and proper for the physician to lie in order to protect himself from wrongful persecution.

 

[billypilgrim37]

Regarding your hypothetical scenario, the physician should deny that the patient admitted suicidality, and make no mention of it in his notes, so that the family has no way of learning the truth. To be sure, that is an awful situation for both the physician and the family, but it is necessary and proper for the physician to lie in order to protect himself from wrongful persecution.

Time for everybody's favorite game, "Analyze the Freudian Slip of the Cluster A Troll!"

 

[GH253]

Could you help us understand your personal development of these feelings? You obviously have a very strong opinion on this matter, much stronger than most people would have bothered with. And you probably weren't born with these opinions.

Are there particular experiences, readings, media that helped shaped your views on the subject?

You're not going to find much sympathy for your viewpoint here. At the same time, I'd like to know how someone eventually comes to the conclusions that you've come to.

I recieved treatment for depression during my teens and early twenties. That course of events culminated with a wrongful 14 day commitment based on the utter embellishments and distortions of facts produced by the mental health professionals who handled my case. When I attempted to clear things up, under the naive assumption that they even meant well, they simply noted that I lacked "insight" and dismissed everything I said as the irrelevant ramblings of a lunatic, and that pretty much set the tone for the entire time I was there. The ordeal was the single worst experience of my life, but at least it provided me with the opportunity to see what mental health is really about, at its core. After the dust settled, I permanently divorced myself from psychiatry and never looked back. It was the best decision I ever made. All of my previous mental health problems are totally resolved now, and I have more clarity than I ever had, or ever could have had, while I was on psych drugs. However, I have paid dearly, with permanent, life-altering consequences, for the mistakes I made during the years when my perception of reality was distorted by SSRIs. I consider it the noblest thing I can do to speak out against these practices, although, I admit that I probably chose the wrong battle ground my arguing about it in the SDN psych forum. The question of involuntary commitment just struck a chord I guess.

 

[erg923]

I recieved treatment for depression during my teens and early twenties. That course of events culminated with a wrongful 14 day commitment based on the utter embellishments and distortions of facts produced by the mental health professionals iwho handled my case. When I attempted to clear things up, under the naive assumption that they even meant well, they simply noted that I lacked "insight" and dismissed everything I said as the irrelevant ramblings of a lunatic. The commitment was the single worst experience of my life, but at least it provided me with the opportunity to see what mental health is really about, at its core. After the dust settled, I permanently divorced myself from psychiatry and never looked back. It was the best decision I ever made. All of my previous mental health problems are totally resolved now, and I have more clarity than I ever had, or ever could have had, while I was on psych drugs. However, I have paid dearly, with permanent, life-altering consequences, for the mistakes I made during the years when my perception of reality was distorted by SSRIs. I consider it the noblest thing I can do to speak out against these practices, although, I admit that I probably chose the wrong battle ground my arguing about it in the SDN psych forum. The question of involuntary commitment just struck a chord I guess.

Finally! There it is. I've been waiting for this self-disclosure for sometime now. Your jadded and feel wronged...we get it. Move along son.

 

[Doc Samson]

The abortion analogy is a bad one because that is one of the most controversial issues in the world and also enjoys the protection of religious freedom, so medical students can refuse to participate in abortion without much fear of repercussion. No so with involuntary commitment. The choice is between participating and quitting med school, the latter of which is the greater evil. Therefore one should go through with it.

Regarding your hypothetical scenario, the physician should deny that the patient admitted suicidality, and make no mention of it in his notes, so that the family has no way of learning the truth. To be sure, that is an awful situation for both the physician and the family, but it is necessary and proper for the physician to lie in order to protect himself from wrongful persecution.

So you'd allow a patient to end their life, falsify the medical record, and perjure yourself to CYA. Please, please rethink your decision to become a physician. Your wish to avoid any part of involuntary commitment seems to override all other medical ethics.

 

[GH253]

So you'd allow a patient to end their life, falsify the medical record, and perjure yourself to CYA. Please, please rethink your decision to become a physician. Your wish to avoid any part of involuntary commitment seems to override all other medical ethics.

You have a distorted concept of medical ethics. Like most people, you simply accept the status quo and never question what your educators told you. If you had lived 200 years ago, you would've accepted slavery too.

 

[whopper]

I'm going against my own advice since I asked to not feed the troll.

GH I wish you well, and if you were somehow wronged due to poor treatment that's a shame.

However if you want to make positive change, you can't do it by doing something illegal & unethical, then excuse it by making rationalizations that almost any doctor, judge or jury would not agree with such as falsifying records. You have a duty to try to change it through the proper channels which are available.

OK, now I'll stop posting. Just that you did mention some meaningful data that I felt I would like to respond to that may be helpful.

I also am of the same opinion that anyone advocating illegal activity in the name of proper practice needs to not be on this forum.

 

[erg923]

If you had lived 200 years ago, you would've accepted slavery too.

Thats a big leap, and an inappopriate and presumptous accusation. And its THINGS LIKE THAT that are going to impede your ability to get through med school and/or work effectively with peers and supervisors (and pts as well of course. Dont forget the pts. You know, the ones who you would rather die in the street cold and hungry and psychotic instead of getting help in a hospital). You are not gonna make it through internship and residencey with the habit of spouting off such off the wall accusations. Especially when your doing it to elders and peers both. It makes you look impulsive (who wants an impulsive doctor working on them?) and demonstrates poor judegment. Poor judgement. Big issue for the medical community, trust me.

In my not so humble opinion, its gonna be tough for you to keep that stuff inside. This is personal for you and your obviously feel cheated and jadded. When beliefs come for a personal vindetta mind set, it changes things. It disorts things. And its gonna make it hard for you to keep them inside the way other were guessing you could. Whooper had a good point about people people being able to control themselves and being satisfied by venting on message boards, but I simply find it hard to belive that this combo of issues does't shine through in your personality like a radioactive ball. 😀 This is gonna be your downfall son. Heed the advice of your peers and elders in this profession that you seem so desperate, yet so conflicted about being apart of. Work on this, for your sake.

 

[Regnvejr]

... the physician should deny that the patient admitted suicidality, and make no mention of it in his notes, so that the family has no way of learning the truth. To be sure, that is an awful situation for both the physician and the family, but it is necessary and proper for the physician to lie in order to protect himself from wrongful persecution.

That "ethics" pretty much settles it for me.

This person is poison to medicine and this forum. About the most disgusting creature I have ever heard of, seeking entry into medicine, willing to place themselves before their patients to the point of allowing them to die.

This is as disgusting as I have ever come across. I would favor actively stopping this person from becoming a physician.

 

[Faebinder]

The abortion analogy is a bad one because that is one of the most controversial issues in the world and also enjoys the protection of religious freedom, so medical students can refuse to participate in abortion without much fear of repercussion. No so with involuntary commitment. The choice is between participating and quitting med school, the latter of which is the greater evil. Therefore one should go through with it.

Regarding your hypothetical scenario, the physician should deny that the patient admitted suicidality, and make no mention of it in his notes, so that the family has no way of learning the truth. To be sure, that is an awful situation for both the physician and the family, but it is necessary and proper for the physician to lie in order to protect himself from wrongful persecution.

Minor problem with your scenario.... It's the nurses that call the doctors saying the patient is voicing suicidal gestures and scenarios. They ALL document EVERY SINGLE THING they call you about and your response. Your excuse in court that there is no such documentation will be met with an easy show that nurse so and so called you about it and you did nothing.

What now?

 

[Doc Samson]

You have a distorted concept of medical ethics. Like most people, you simply accept the status quo and never question what your educators told you. If you had lived 200 years ago, you would've accepted slavery too.

Status quo has less to do with this than my ethical responsibility to have the medical record accurately record my observations. Any physician willing to falsify the record has issues beyond the scope of this forum.

And, yes... the nurses render your plan unworkable. You cannot effectively practice medicine in the United States without providing the standard of care. Standard of care for the actively suicidal patient who refuses voluntary treatment is involuntary commitment. You need to choose between a career in medicine or your opposition to commitment - you cannot have both.

 

[whopper]

"Analyze the Freudian Slip of the Cluster A Troll!"

I'd say Cluster B.

This ain't weird behavior (aliens, UFO's, Boo Radley), this is drama/antisocial/bend the rules to whatever gets you out of trouble type stuff.

 

[VMSmith]

Regarding your hypothetical scenario, the physician should deny that the patient admitted suicidality, and make no mention of it in his notes, so that the family has no way of learning the truth. To be sure, that is an awful situation for both the physician and the family, but it is necessary and proper for the physician to lie in order to protect himself from wrongful persecution.

Oh wow. Wow. Um. Wow.

My friend, you are on the road to some serious problems in the future, the least of which includes losing your medical license (if you ever obtain one).

 

[erg923]

Well of course that the right things to do. I mean death is always the better than alernative for peope, right..... Or perhaps "the lesser of 2 evils" as he says. Trust me, he could never make it through anyway, so I woudlnt worry about it. He'd be outed by classmates before internship year in my opinion.

 

[VMSmith]

GH: I would like to give you some advice - it's up to you whether you wish to accept it.

There are many ways to stand up for your beliefs, and many ways to try to effect change in the world. Falsifying medical records and anonymously encouraging others to participate in unethical and/or illegal behavior will not get you very far professionally, nor will they advance your stated goals. They will instead either land you in jail or cause you to lose your ability to practice medicine.

While I strongly, strongly disagree with your stated opinions about involuntary commitment, I certainly don't wish anything bad to happen to you. I would first advise you to keep an open mind when you do your psychiatry rotation, as approaching this issue from a treater's standpoint may give you a different perspective. If it does not, then I certainly recommend you consider more ethical and legal ways of expressing your feelings about involuntary hospitalization.

 

[Doc Samson]

Having now had some time to peruse some of your other posts and discover that your issue is not just with involuntary commitment but with the DSM and the entire field of psychiatry, here's something you should know:

Psychiatrists are EVERYWHERE in medical education.

We get called on to be Deans (student affairs, admissions, what have you) because we are used to dealing with issues of stress and (rightly or wrongly) our colleagues believe we can foresee "problem" students. Learning theory is right in our professional wheelhouse, so lots of us are heavily involved in GME and CME. Just of the top of my head I can think of several psychiatrists that are presidents/CEOs of teaching hospitals. Your involvement with psychiatrists will continue for as long as you stay in medical education, and they will likely be in some sort of supervisory role. You sure you want to sign up for that?

 

[GH253]

Minor problem with your scenario.... It's the nurses that call the doctors saying the patient is voicing suicidal gestures and scenarios. They ALL document EVERY SINGLE THING they call you about and your response. Your excuse in court that there is no such documentation will be met with an easy show that nurse so and so called you about it and you did nothing.

What now?

In this scenario, the physician essentially has a gun pointed to his head, so he has no choice other than to go through with the commitment.

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

Four years ago I got arrested for growing marijuana. Basically the story is that my life used to revolve around running, and when injury ended my career in 2005, my entire universe collapsed and I went on a six month pot binge. The habit became expensive and I started growing my own $hit, although I was never into selling or anything along those lines. The story of how I got caught is so embarrassing I won't even go there. Anyway, the outcome of my case was that I got my charge downgraded to a misdomeanor and was sentenced to 30 days house arrest. I have disowned that entire period in my life and I am no longer involved with drugs of any kind (don't even drink). How do you think this will go over with respect to med school admissions?

I am certain the psychiatrists were just that misunderstanding sort of bunch, and it was SSRIs, not the pot, that impaired GH's perception of reality.

Whopper, Cluster B it is.

 

[billypilgrim37]

To be fair, the cluster A comment was before the burst of self-disclosure. Prior to that, just seemed like a nice conspiracy theorist who wandered onto the wrong board.

 

[GH253]

I am certain the psychiatrists were just that misunderstanding sort of bunch, and it was SSRIs, not the pot, that impaired GH's perception of reality.

Whopper, Cluster B it is.

pot was six months, SSRIs were seven years... pot makes you think a lame joke is funny, SSRIs make you think a lame life is fulfilling

 

[Anasazi23]

I think all relevant posts and counter-posts have been made, and that a compulsory conclusion has been agreed upon.

Closing.