Where do DO students rotate Yr. 3/4?

[sshashid87]

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Hey I was just hoping to find out where students rotate at different DO schools? I'm applying now and I'd like to apply to schools that rotate at large hospitals, just because you're more likely to see a wider range of patients/illness/etc. I only ask because I know a certain DO school near me rotates at small community hospitals, and I just think you could learn more at larger hospitals. I am applying MD/DO/SGU (rotates in NYC hospitals) but I'd prefer the first 2 of course. The only concern I have is with the 3/4 yr rotations (I'm sort of assuming bigger hospitals give better chance to network for future residency positions, etc...I know this is way in the future but yeah...)

Anyways, if anyone has any info on different DO schools I'd really appreciate it, thanks!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

You can probably see more at larger hospitals, but learn more? I don't know.

Where I'm doing research this summer, it is one of the nation's busiest Level I trauma centers. It is a core site for two schools, and it is very high-volume and high-acuity. Plenty of sick patients, plenty of trauma. The faculty is also outstanding, and they love to teach.

On the other hand, there are a million people from each service down there at all times. Med students, PA students, residents, attendings, nurses, techs, security, etc.. So far, I have yet to see a student do anything but stand off to the side and watch, with the exception of the occasional neuro exam or something.

At a smaller community hospital, its probably going to be you and the attending handling the patients by yourselves, and in the case of a service like EM, the attending gets paid by how many patients he/she can see, and will be looking to tear through them as quickly as possible. That means you're getting put to work. You'll likely be the only med student on the service, and there may not even be a resident.

There are benefits to both.

 

[Octagonecology]

You can probably see more at larger hospitals, but learn more? I don't know.

Where I'm doing research this summer, it is one of the nation's busiest Level I trauma centers. It is a core site for two schools, and it is very high-volume and high-acuity. Plenty of sick patients, plenty of trauma. The faculty is also outstanding, and they love to teach.

On the other hand, there are a million people from each service down there at all times. Med students, PA students, residents, attendings, nurses, techs, security, etc.. So far, I have yet to see a student do anything but stand off to the side and watch, with the exception of the occasional neuro exam or something.

At a smaller community hospital, its probably going to be you and the attending handling the patients by yourselves, and in the case of a service like EM, the attending gets paid by how many patients he/she can see, and will be looking to tear through them as quickly as possible. That means you're getting put to work. You'll likely be the only med student on the service, and there may not even be a resident.

There are benefits to both.

TT makes an excellent point that has been postulated many times on SDN before. While a large tertiary academic institution such as....oh I don't know, lets say Grady in Atlanta may be sent all the "big sexy cases" you will be last in line to do anything good. As he says...behind the residents, other MD students, PA students, NP, janitors and possibly the food staff there you will be competing to put in an IV.

On the other hand, at some of the smaller community institutions you may be the MD preceptor's right hand man doing all kinds of things you would not normally be able to do.

Sick people get sick and some get real sick....be it at Beth Israel or Beckley, WV community hospital. I personally would want to go where I could have one on one with the attending and be able to do the most procedures and as often as possible. But that's just me, Im a fussy prick.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Don't get me wrong, I love Grady, and would be thrilled to train at a place like this. I plan to rotate here for an elective, and a couple places like it as well. But I'm also looking forward to some of my rotations at smaller places, so I can get a lot of hands-on experience.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=407104

It's got a lot of info like you're seeking, OP.

 

[sshashid87]

Hey thanks for all the input...I didn't mean to come off as condescending towards smaller hospitals, of course their work is on the same level as the bigger hospitals I was just referring to seeing more a more diverse case load, but I can def. see the benefit of training at smaller hospitals as well...I hadn't really thought of it in that light before...

TT, do you know any DOs that work at Grady full time? This is just a side question, wanted to see if these big hospital systems care about the letters behind the name or not...either way I'm applying ostepathic/allopathic, but this is just a little concerning...i know in practice (minus omm), both types practice very similar forms of medicine, but are medical directors able to realize that or are they still very MD biased?

Also, thanks Octagonecology and ChocolateBear, I appreciate the advice and the link, it pretty much has everything i'm looking for

 

[TexasTriathlete]

there are many DO's at Grady

 

[countthestars]

Here's a shocker, there are DO's at Harvard and at Hopkins (GASP! 😱). Now study hard in school, get good grades, do well on the boards, Kick Arse during your rotations, do some research, get good LORs and you too might be able to work at larger hosptials.

Also, at NYCOM, during 3rd and 4th years, we share rotations at larger hosptials with Stony Brook, Downstate, NYU, Albert Einstein and UMDNJ-NJMS.

 

[sshashid87]

lol alright sorry for the dumb questions, i appreciate all the advice and such...hopefully i'll be finishing my applications this week (yeah im behind) but hope to be complete by august sometime, really depends on my committee letter...

 

[TexasTriathlete]

So here's a follow-up to my statement...

We've now got a 4th-year girl from school doing her EM elective at Grady. She is an absolute beast, and I mean that in the best possible way. As far as knowledge, I have no idea, but all the students seem to be on about the same level. But as far as being comfortable in the environment, and talking to patients, taking initiative, doing procedures, etc., she is just about the best student I've seen in the department. I haven't seen them all, obviously, but she really does stand out.

It doesn't hurt that she worked there before med school, but there are Emory students on the service too, and its not like they've never been there before.

I also think that this is a quality that will stand out in EM more than on other services. But regardless of why she is as good as she is, it is nice to see, and it gives me someone to try and emulate when I start my rotations in a little less than a year.

 

[sshashid87]

That's great, I'm glad to hear stuff like that...I've almost completed both applications now, just trying to cut down PS by a little bit and fill in ECs in a creative manner so I don't bore people to death...thanks for all the advice, the only real thing I'm worried about would be having to take both COMLEX and USMLE...both are pretty terrible from what I've heard so yeah...but first step is still getting in, so back to that...thanks again for your help

 

[FutureCTDoc]

I'm in the BS/DO at NSU-COM the third/fourth year rotations at NSU are Broward Health, Memorial Regional
Dade County
Aventura Hospital
Kendall Regional Medical Center
Larkin Community Hospital
Mount Sinai
Palmetto
Jackson North Medical Center
Orlando
Florida Hospital - East Orlando
Palm Beach County
Bethesda Memorial Medical Center
Columbia Hospital - WPB
Palms West
West Palm VA Medical Center
West Coast of Florida
Largo Medical Center
Naples Community Hospital
Lee Memorial Health System
Alabama
Alabama Medical Education Consortium
Georgia
Osteopathic Institute of the South
http://medicine.nova.edu/do/clinical_rotation.html this links to all of the hospitals sites.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

That's great, I'm glad to hear stuff like that...I've almost completed both applications now, just trying to cut down PS by a little bit and fill in ECs in a creative manner so I don't bore people to death...thanks for all the advice, the only real thing I'm worried about would be having to take both COMLEX and USMLE...both are pretty terrible from what I've heard so yeah...but first step is still getting in, so back to that...thanks again for your help

I was talking to an EM resident from Emory the other day (in a non-official setting... happy hour), and she told me that I should take not only USMLE Step I, but Step II as well. She is a DO, by the way.

 

[scpod]

....The only concern I have is with the 3/4 yr rotations (I'm sort of assuming bigger hospitals give better chance to network for future residency positions, etc...I know this is way in the future but yeah...)

Anyways, if anyone has any info on different DO schools I'd really appreciate it, thanks!

If you want to get to know attending docs for LORs or networking... whatever.... then the large teaching hospitals can really suck sometimes. You may know the interns and residents you work with, but you won't even see the attendings all that often. They won't even know your name a week after you are gone. You likely won't be allowed in the doctor's lounge, or even in the resident's lounge, unless you are invited on some special occasion.

At smaller places, though, it is often you and the attending. and they will be more than happy to provide you with a LOR or call a colleague of theirs they trained with if you perform well. Often, you'll eat in the lounge with the attendings and you'll get to know the guys from other services too.

BTW, the way you learn medicine is not in the number of diverse cases you see. You learn medicine by doing it. The more involved you get, the easier it is to remember it. My second ER rotation was with an ER group of about 80 or 90 physicians who provide services to 4 different hospitals in Jacksonville. I worked in 3 of them. I loved the two smaller ones because I got to do so much more there on my own. My attending at the two smaller ones watched me on the first day while I did a pelvic, sutired up a guy in a motorcycle crash, etc.... and from then on let me pick up the charts I wanted and told me to come get him if I thought he needed to see them. That just doesn't happen when you have residents fighting for the cases. If you get to "watch" sutures being put in you might be lucky.

That said, I'm not telling you that the education you would get at a large teaching hospital is inferior.... I'm just saying it might be a lot different from what you are thinking. There are some good and bad things about both, IMHO, and you should try to get some experience at both. In any rotation, no matter where it is, your experience is shaped by the person you report to-- no kmatter what their title may be. Talk to your upper classmen about their experiences and taake their advice.

 

[danimjo]

Thank you all for posting on this, I too had been weighing the rotation options and trying to use the information as part of the decision of where to apply and if it comes down to it, where to accept. It's nice to know small facilities can be great learning environments!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

danimjo: have you done anything at Brack in Austin? I used to work there, and while it is a pretty busy facility, it kind of feels like a smaller one, because they don't have a million students and residents running around. Lots of opportunities for students there.

 

[danimjo]

I haven't done anything at Brack, but would love to! Do you have a great contact to volunteer with or that I could shadow as a pre-med? If so do you mind sending me that information via PM? It's been a while since I did any volunteering and shadowing and would love to keep my feet wet while going through the interview process!

 

[jkmph]

I was talking to an EM resident from Emory the other day (in a non-official setting... happy hour), and she told me that I should take not only USMLE Step I, but Step II as well. She is a DO, by the way.

TT, what was the driving motive behind this suggestion? I'm aware of a DO in Emory EM who only took COMLEX and seems to have done well for himself in Atlanta.

 

[Octagonecology]

TT, what was the driving motive behind this suggestion? I'm aware of a DO in Emory EM who only took COMLEX and seems to have done well for himself in Atlanta.

Lots of controversy (sp) whether a DO actually needs to take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX.....for every person I ask I get a different answer.

 

[TeamZissou]

Here's a list for CCOM.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

TT, what was the driving motive behind this suggestion? I'm aware of a DO in Emory EM who only took COMLEX and seems to have done well for himself in Atlanta.

You should look around....many many many DO 4th-years and residents will advise you to take the USMLE I at least. Sure, there are plenty of DO students who "do well for themselves" without it, but there are tons that will say that certain opportunities were only granted to them because they had a USMLE score on their application.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

TT, what was the driving motive behind this suggestion? I'm aware of a DO in Emory EM who only took COMLEX and seems to have done well for himself in Atlanta.

I don't know, but it seems to be the case these days.

I should add that I confirmed this with the EM program director. Said it is not required, but that all programs would prefer to see it.

And I'm talking USMLE Step II. It is pretty much a given that you should take Step I. Maybe you can do fine without it, but why risk it?