Where do you stand on the Public Option?

[xmsr3]

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So I made a poll in the pre-med forum and its been really active with lots of debate and with over 170 votes I have a good idea of where future med students stand on the issue but I am curious as to what high school students, (future pre-med students) think about it.

So where do you stand on the public option?

 

[c5212]

I just think that the health care reform is being rushed. Not a good thing to rush such a large financial commitment.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

There is nothing I would rather do with my hard earned money than go and pay for crackheads and alcoholics who can't hold jobs. I mean really, it makes me feel warm and tingly to see the fact that my pay is going to pay for failures. I oppose this "public option" I really don't care if others have coverage. There is no "right" to health care. Quite frankly I don't care if people die in the street, that isn't my problem. I know I sound horrible, but I really don't care. This bill isn't constitutional under the The Tenth Amendment "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." This is going to be turfed to SCOTUS. I hope that this god awful bill dies in the senate.

 

[El Nino]

I believe everyone should have the right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health.
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FurtureCTDoc, would you still oppose the public option if you did not have medical insurance? Have you every thought about the people who aren't insured? I mean It's easy to say you oppose something when you're benefiting.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

That's wonderful you believe that. However I don't. You don't even bother to make an argument to support your belief. Is it my fault that people elect not to get health care or are too poor to get it? No. Quite frankly I don't care about them. I worked hard got into a dual program with a med school. Is it wrong to want to be the beneficiary of my own work? No. I would still oppose "health care reform" even if I didn't have it. I believe in the free market and capitalism. Maybe you should look up what social darwinism.

 

[c5212]

There is nothing I would rather do with my hard earned money than go and pay for crackheads and alcoholics who can't hold jobs. I mean really, it makes me feel warm and tingly to see the fact that my pay is going to pay for failures. I oppose this "public option" I really don't care if others have coverage. There is no "right" to health care. Quite frankly I don't care if people die in the street, that isn't my problem. I know I sound horrible, but I really don't care. This bill isn't constitutional under the The Tenth Amendment "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." This is going to be turfed to SCOTUS. I hope that this god awful bill dies in the senate.

While I do oppose the current form of reform that is being debated, (with complete respect, not trying to start something) don't you think that you are being a little hard on those who are just less fortunate. Everyone who cannot afford health care is most certainly NOT a "failure," "crackhead," or "alcoholic." IMO, the federal and state government(s) should expand Medicaid instead of trying to completely socialize our entire health care system by driving out private insurance companies. Instead of forcing government insurance on everyone, those who are fortunate enough should be able to shop around for the private health insurance that fit themselves and their families best.

 

[bigwill11205]

I agree with El Nino.

 

[MilkmanAl]

How do you feel about people who work hard and are successful but still cannot afford insurance? Students (like, say, me) and young professionals come to mind.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

While I do oppose the current form of reform that is being debated, (with complete respect, not trying to start something) don't you think that you are being a little hard on those who are just less fortunate. Everyone who cannot afford health care is most certainly NOT a "failure," "crackhead," or "alcoholic." IMO, the federal and state government(s) should expand Medicaid instead of trying to completely socialize our entire health care system by driving out private insurance companies. Instead of forcing government insurance on everyone, those who are fortunate enough should be able to shop around for the private health insurance that fit themselves and their families best.

I'm certain some fascist are family men too, however most aren't. Most people who are so poor as too be unable to afford health care are failures or elect not to get healthcare insurance even if they can afford it, high school dropouts, in a dead end job, twenty-somethings who feel they are immortal etc. I'm certain we can all find sob stories, however look at the average. I really don't think that we need to take care of these individuals.

 

[rockaction]

That's wonderful you believe that. However I don't. You don't even bother to make an argument to support your belief. Is it my fault that people elect not to get health care or are too poor to get it? No. Quite frankly I don't care about them. I worked hard got into a dual program with a med school. Is it wrong to want to be the beneficiary of my own work? No. I would still oppose "health care reform" even if I didn't have it. I believe in the free market and capitalism. Maybe you should look up what social darwinism.

Good thing you didn't apply to Ohio State, they require that you write an essay on altruism

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Good thing you didn't apply to Ohio State, they require that you write an essay on altruism

Maybe you should read Ayn Rand then you would understand my position on "altruism".

 

[rockaction]

Maybe you should read Ayn Rand then you would understand my position on "altruism".

No further comment necessary

Enjoy rotting in your narcissistic worldview

 

[FutureCTDoc]

No further comment necessary

Enjoy rotting in your narcissistic worldview

I suppose it's horrible and god awful to have self-interest. Bad me, I actually care for how I do in life. By the way you don't even make grammatical sense. I suppose by not feeling guilty for the failures of the world this makes me horrible.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Hmmm...that's sort of a weird worldview for someone going into medicine to have.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Hmmm...that's sort of a weird worldview for someone going into medicine to have.

No it really isn't. I don't understand why I can't put myself first. I also don't understand why it is so bad to not feel bad for those who bring this upon themselves. This is the same as treating alcoholics, drug addicts and smokers, if they get cirrhosis, overdose or get lung CA, I won't care. These individuals bring this upon themselves.

 

[rockaction]

So you won't treat them?

 

[FutureCTDoc]

So you won't treat them?

If I thought I could get away with it, yes. Unfortunately that is impossible. I just won't care if they die. If a drug abuser dies and they are my patient, I wouldn't shed a tear. The same goes for those who elect to do anything along those lines.

 

[bigwill11205]

If I thought I could get away with it, yes. Unfortunately that is impossible. I just won't care if they die. If a drug abuser dies and they are my patient, I wouldn't shed a tear. The same goes for those who elect to do anything along those lines.

Wow. You seem very cold. Caring for people even when they've done wrong/have problems is not a bad thing, you know?

 

[c5212]

If I thought I could get away with it, yes. Unfortunately that is impossible. I just won't care if they die. If a drug abuser dies and they are my patient, I wouldn't shed a tear. The same goes for those who elect to do anything along those lines.

While the fact that they abuse drugs is their fault (along with the fact that the human brain is extremely susceptible to addiction), just because someone has an addiction DOES NOT mean that they are a horrible person and deserve to die. I believe that being a doctor (although I'm not one) requires you to set aside any prejudice you have and treat everyone equally.

Having a heart doesn't hurt either 😉

 

[smq123]

I'm certain some fascist are family men too, however most aren't. Most people who are so poor as too be unable to afford health care are failures or elect not to get healthcare insurance even if they can afford it, high school dropouts, in a dead end job, twenty-somethings who feel they are immortal etc. I'm certain we can all find sob stories, however look at the average. I really don't think that we need to take care of these individuals.

Hmm.

If I weren't a resident right now, I wouldn't be able to afford health insurance either, on this salary. The best thing about being a resident, in terms of daily living, is that hospitals tend to give you fairly good health insurance benefits - my program actually gives exceptionally good health insurance benefits. But, if I were working for another company that did NOT offer health insurance benefits, or only offered catastrophic insurance, there's no way I could buy anything better. Does that mean I'm lazy? That I'm a high school drop-out? That I feel that I'm "immortal"?

Is it my fault that people elect not to get health care or are too poor to get it? No. Quite frankly I don't care about them. I worked hard got into a dual program with a med school. Is it wrong to want to be the beneficiary of my own work? No. I would still oppose "health care reform" even if I didn't have it. I believe in the free market and capitalism. Maybe you should look up what social darwinism.

The problem with your arguments is that you simply don't understand how real life tends to work. Ever heard of the "working uninsured"? That term applies to about 14 million Americans. I see them in the hospital and the clinic everyday. Their employer was forced to make budget cuts, and health insurance is one of the first things to go. Or they were laid off (a very frequent thing in this economy) and the only jobs that they could find were part time. So they're working 3 part time jobs to make ends meet, but part time jobs rarely pay health insurance. Or they're trying to start their own business...but pouring all their money into just keeping their business afloat. Many of them don't have health insurance because their business would fail if they purchased it.

I think it's great that you've worked hard to get into a "dual" program (technically they're called combined programs - BS/MD, BS/DO, etc.)....so how about taking your nose out of a book once in a while and wake up to the reality of being an adult?

If I thought I could get away with it, yes. Unfortunately that is impossible. I just won't care if they die. If a drug abuser dies and they are my patient, I wouldn't shed a tear. The same goes for those who elect to do anything along those lines.

Do you know how many physicians and former physicians are substance abusers? The stress of the job and ready access to narcotics makes it easy. It's not just physicians - I've seen CEOs, high power attorneys, even deans of large universities seek treatment for addiction of some sort.

So until you are far enough along as an attending physician and can look back on yourself and think "I've never even been tempted by drugs or alcohol or cigarettes," and have never had any colleagues that have succumbed, then go right ahead and callously refuse to shed a tear while continuing to believe that all drug abusers are "bad people". And, yes, they ALL said, "Oh, that'd never happen to me."

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Hmm.

If I weren't a resident right now, I wouldn't be able to afford health insurance either, on this salary. The best thing about being a resident, in terms of daily living, is that hospitals tend to give you fairly good health insurance benefits - my program actually gives exceptionally good health insurance benefits. But, if I were working for another company that did NOT offer health insurance benefits, or only offered catastrophic insurance, there's no way I could buy anything better. Does that mean I'm lazy? That I'm a high school drop-out? That I feel that I'm "immortal"?



The problem with your arguments is that you simply don't understand how real life tends to work. Ever heard of the "working uninsured"? That term applies to about 14 million Americans. I see them in the hospital and the clinic everyday. Their employer was forced to make budget cuts, and health insurance is one of the first things to go. Or they were laid off (a very frequent thing in this economy) and the only jobs that they could find were part time. So they're working 3 part time jobs to make ends meet, but part time jobs rarely pay health insurance. Or they're trying to start their own business...but pouring all their money into just keeping their business afloat. Many of them don't have health insurance because their business would fail if they purchased it.

I think it's great that you've worked hard to get into a "dual" program (technically they're called combined programs - BS/MD, BS/DO, etc.)....so how about taking your nose out of a book once in a while and wake up to the reality of being an adult?





Do you know how many physicians and former physicians are substance abusers? The stress of the job and ready access to narcotics makes it easy. It's not just physicians - I've seen CEOs, high power attorneys, even deans of large universities seek treatment for addiction of some sort.

So until you are far enough along as an attending physician and can look back on yourself and think "I've never even been tempted by drugs or alcohol or cigarettes," and have never had any colleagues that have succumbed, then go right ahead and callously refuse to shed a tear while continuing to believe that all drug abusers are "bad people". And, yes, they ALL said, "Oh, that'd never happen to me."

It's really easy to elect not to abuse drugs. Say no out of the start. Quite frankly if a colleague "succumbs" to drugs, I would report them to whatever the impaired physician program in that state is. By the way I really don't care about there position in life, be it addict on the street or the halls of power, they are the same scum. For your information I don't touch alcohol or any other intoxicants.

 

[rockaction]

It's really easy to elect not to abuse drugs. Say no out of the start. Quite frankly if a colleague "succumbs" to drugs, I would report them to whatever the impaired physician program in that state is. By the way I really don't care about there position in life, be it addict on the street or the halls of power, they are the same scum. For your information I don't touch alcohol or any other intoxicants.

You're a heartless prohibitionist who wants to be a doctor. I'm so confused.

 

[MilkmanAl]

If I weren't a resident right now, I wouldn't be able to afford health insurance either, on this salary... Does that mean I'm lazy? That I'm a high school drop-out? That I feel that I'm "immortal"?

This issue has been sidestepped twice. It's something that deserves consideration and a big part of why health care is such a sticky problem.

For your information I don't touch alcohol or any other intoxicants.

Most people aren't drug abusers before they become drug abusers, as smq said.

 

[El Nino]

There is no point in arguing with CT doc. Honestly, It's like arguing with a member of the KKK about racism.

 

[smq123]

Maybe you should read Ayn Rand then you would understand my position on "altruism".

The problem with Ayn Rand's books is that they're fiction. They're books that are set in a world where, if you work hard, then you'll be rewarded accordingly. In her books, people are never laid off. Corporations pay for your health care. And when was the last time someone in her books actually got really sick? Never....despite the fact that all of her heroes and heroines are chain smokers.

Unfortunately, this is just not how the real world works. There are so many people out there who DO work hard, and try to live their lives as best they can. They just can't manage to make ends meet and buy health insurance. And you might look down your nose at them...but have YOU ever had to buy your own health insurance? Do you know how much decent coverage costs? Or are mommy and daddy still shielding you from the harsh financial realities of the world we live in?

El Nino - I agree, there may not be a point in arguing this. It's just disturbing to think that a medical school would agree to eventually teach someone who thinks that poorly written capitalist fairy tales are actually reflective of reality.

 

[loveoforganic]

I'm sure that world view was conveniently tucked away during interviews 😴

 

[avatarftw]

Maybe I read too much studentdoctor.net/pandabearmd, but if you say that health care is a right, where do you stop?

1. Is food a right? Do we have groceraid? Should we all buy food insurance and pay to a third party to mediate purchases at the local food store? How about cars? We need cars--shouldn't we provide all citizens with them?

2. Based on talks with doctors, a central complaint is that there is strikingly little personal responsibility. People need to take responsibility for their own health. Eat health food, exercise, don't smoke nor drink.

3. Every day, I see people eschew fruits and vegetables and opt for unhealthy burgers and fatty foods. Yes, healthy food is more expensive relative to the prices in the past (and unhealthy food is relatively less inexpensive) but if you buy on sale you can easily find cheap, nutritious food. Why, I just found a sale for apples--33 cents a pound. (normal price is 99 cents a pound)

4. Why not use the stairs instead of the elevator. The choice is simple--move your body or not.

5. There are circumstances in which people cannot buy health food. For example, in Detroit, MI, there is not even a Meijer (massive food store, kind of like Kroger and Safeway). However, I contend that the vast majority of people don't fall into these special circumstances. Man up.

6. I do, however, believe that we should subsidize fruits and vegetables and foment a healthy, active lifestyle. Better, more numerous parks, for example. However, I do not believe that health care is a right--if you force people (health care providers) to do it without reimbursement, that should be construed as slavery.

6a. As per EMTALA, the emergency room has to see everbody, regardless of their ability to pay. Thus, EM doctors lose money on patients that don't pay.

7. Studies (sadly, I don't have the citation here) have shown that health care is not close to being the primary determinant of good health. What is? Why, its diet and exercise. Lifestyle.

I believe everyone should have the right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FurtureCTDoc, would you still oppose the public option if you did not have medical insurance? Have you every thought about the people who aren't insured? I mean It's easy to say you oppose something when you're benefiting.

 

[loveoforganic]

Maybe I read too much studentdoctor.net/pandabearmd, but if you say that health care is a right, where do you stop?

1. Is food a right? Do we have groceraid? Should we all buy food insurance and pay to a third party to mediate purchases at the local food store? How about cars? We need cars--shouldn't we provide all citizens with them?

2. Based on talks with doctors, a central complaint is that there is strikingly little personal responsibility. People need to take responsibility for their own health. Eat health food, exercise, don't smoke nor drink.

3. Every day, I see people eschew fruits and vegetables and opt for unhealthy burgers and fatty foods. Yes, healthy food is more expensive relative to the prices in the past (and unhealthy food is relatively less inexpensive) but if you buy on sale you can easily find cheap, nutritious food. Why, I just found a sale for apples--33 cents a pound. (normal price is 99 cents a pound)

4. Why not use the stairs instead of the elevator. The choice is simple--move your body or not.

5. There are circumstances in which people cannot buy health food. For example, in Detroit, MI, there is not even a Meijer (massive food store, kind of like Kroger and Safeway). However, I contend that the vast majority of people don't fall into these special circumstances. Man up.

6. I do, however, believe that we should subsidize fruits and vegetables and foment a healthy, active lifestyle. Better, more numerous parks, for example. However, I do not believe that health care is a right--if you force people (health care providers) to do it without reimbursement, that should be construed as slavery.

6a. As per EMTALA, the emergency room has to see everbody, regardless of their ability to pay. Thus, EM doctors lose money on patients that don't pay.

7. Studies (sadly, I don't have the citation here) have shown that health care is not close to being the primary determinant of good health. What is? Why, its diet and exercise. Lifestyle.

1) Um, food stamps?

2) What does that have to do with a public option?

3) Same as 2

4) Same as 2

5) Then we're already slaves in your opinion

6) Isn't this part of the benefit of a public option?

7) Same as 2. Also, there's a genetic component to disease.

8, 9, 10, and 11) Why didn't you combine your points? lol

 

[avatarftw]

I don't mean to sound heartless.

1. In fact, I think that there should be some safety net for unfortunate souls that are facing difficult circumstances and for whatever reason cannot afford to see the doctor.

2. However, I think the best health care system would promote personal responsibility for their health (skin in the game), competition to provide the best health care, price transparency, and a free market to determine price.

3. The way it is currently done, with CMS determining one's pay based on RVU doesn't seem to be effective. I don't know many cases in which price fixing has been effective. Maybe I"ve been reading too much "happy hospitalist", too!

I don't mean to be offensive so sorry if it came across that way!

 

[avatarftw]

Yeah, I was actually thinking about food stamps, but maybe a more pervasive food stamp system would be the answer. 🙂

The personal responsibility doesn't have to do with the public option, just the idea of health care as a right.

I don't know--people are always saying that a public option won't work because of previous government failures--social security is not looking too promising, medicare is being dropped by many health care providers, medicaid isn't embraced by many doctors, the VA system....I need to do more research but I do not support price fixing.

 

[jvanewportnews]

If I thought I could get away with it, yes. Unfortunately that is impossible. I just won't care if they die. If a drug abuser dies and they are my patient, I wouldn't shed a tear. The same goes for those who elect to do anything along those lines.

So when (IF) you become a doctor (I pray you won't), won't you actually be a walking contradiction? Doctors are supposed to care for the sick, and if you aren't in it for the wellness of the patients, then why do it? Yes, you may put effort into your work, but your attitude ultimately will affect how well you perform that job. It seems to me like there is too much stress involved in becoming a doctor just for the money. Why not get your own little computer job in a small cubicle away from civilization so that none of the people who made mistakes can bother/be bothered by you? You made and will make mistakes too. The only difference between you and the sick ones is that YOUR mistake wasn't drugs.

 

[El Nino]

Maybe I read too much studentdoctor.net/pandabearmd, but if you say that health care is a right, where do you stop?

1. Is food a right? Do we have groceraid? Should we all buy food insurance and pay to a third party to mediate purchases at the local food store? How about cars? We need cars--shouldn't we provide all citizens with them?

2. Based on talks with doctors, a central complaint is that there is strikingly little personal responsibility. People need to take responsibility for their own health. Eat health food, exercise, don't smoke nor drink.

3. Every day, I see people eschew fruits and vegetables and opt for unhealthy burgers and fatty foods. Yes, healthy food is more expensive relative to the prices in the past (and unhealthy food is relatively less inexpensive) but if you buy on sale you can easily find cheap, nutritious food. Why, I just found a sale for apples--33 cents a pound. (normal price is 99 cents a pound)

4. Why not use the stairs instead of the elevator. The choice is simple--move your body or not.

5. There are circumstances in which people cannot buy health food. For example, in Detroit, MI, there is not even a Meijer (massive food store, kind of like Kroger and Safeway). However, I contend that the vast majority of people don't fall into these special circumstances. Man up.

6. I do, however, believe that we should subsidize fruits and vegetables and foment a healthy, active lifestyle. Better, more numerous parks, for example. However, I do not believe that health care is a right--if you force people (health care providers) to do it without reimbursement, that should be construed as slavery.

6a. As per EMTALA, the emergency room has to see everbody, regardless of their ability to pay. Thus, EM doctors lose money on patients that don't pay.

7. Studies (sadly, I don't have the citation here) have shown that health care is not close to being the primary determinant of good health. What is? Why, its diet and exercise. Lifestyle.

Would you agree with this http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/globalrights/econrights/fdr-econbill.html ?

 

[avatarftw]

Hmm, unfortunately I don't agree with the "Economic Bill of Rights" by FDR.

Maybe it's because I'll be about 180,000 in debt after medical school/residency. I calculated the amount using the current 6.8% stafford loan rate and assumed that I would be extremely frugal during med school/residency and would pay back as much during that time.

I don't want people to take my hard-earned money. Maybe it's idealism, but I think that doctors would tend to give charitable care. I don't think it should be forcibly taken away, however.

I don't trust that the government run option will be fair--talking to doctors in my family it could be the only game in town and would have no incentive to give a fair salary. Thus the price fixing would be pretty low and would make the med school investment a pretty poor choice. (7-11 years of making little money after college and heavy debt is a big deal)

Would you agree with this http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/globalrights/econrights/fdr-econbill.html ?

 

[loveoforganic]

Yeah, I was actually thinking about food stamps, but maybe a more pervasive food stamp system would be the answer. 🙂

Could you clarify what you mean by pervasive?

 

[avatarftw]

By "pervasive" I just meant a system in which you could not negotiate directly with the grocery store. You would have to buy food insurance to buy goods at the local meijers, kroger, safeway, etc.

Could you clarify what you mean by pervasive?

 

[FutureCTDoc]

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."
Pastor Martin Niemoller's poem is as true today as it was when he wrote it over 50 years ago. When will we speak out over a government that wants to silence physicians, insurers and the US Chamber of Commerce? Will it be after these "reforms" effect you? Or will you choose not to be a slave to big government? Americans can no longer stand the increased intervention of the government in our daily affairs, now is the time to let the government know that we are tired of this. We have a choice do we want to be Boxer from Animal Farm or Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged. The choice is ours.

 

[El Nino]

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."
Pastor Martin Niemoller's poem is as true today as it was when he wrote it over 50 years ago. When will we speak out over a government that wants to silence physicians, insurers and the US Chamber of Commerce? Will it be after these "reforms" effect you? Or will you choose not to be a slave to big government? Americans can no longer stand the increased intervention of the government in our daily affairs, now is the time to let the government know that we are tired of this. We have a choice do we want to be Boxer from Animal Farm or Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged. The choice is ours.

I can't find the quote's website, but you remind me of this man, "Keep your goddamn government hands off of my medicare."

I think the government needs to revamp our education system. Seriously, our textbooks (well, economics and american government texts etc) depict capitalism as "GOOD" and socialism "EVIL".

 

[loveoforganic]

By "pervasive" I just meant a system in which you could not negotiate directly with the grocery store. You would have to buy food insurance to buy goods at the local meijers, kroger, safeway, etc.

So a system similar to healthcare insurance where you pay in advance in case your luck runs sour?

 

[loveoforganic]

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."
Pastor Martin Niemoller's poem is as true today as it was when he wrote it over 50 years ago. When will we speak out over a government that wants to silence physicians, insurers and the US Chamber of Commerce? Will it be after these "reforms" effect you? Or will you choose not to be a slave to big government? Americans can no longer stand the increased intervention of the government in our daily affairs, now is the time to let the government know that we are tired of this. We have a choice do we want to be Boxer from Animal Farm or Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged. The choice is ours.

Why do you expect others to stand up for your views when you clearly don't believe it's worth standing up for theirs? I don't understand where this spiel came from, unless it was just desire to quote something and mention some literature.

"Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."

You are that person

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Hey, maybe it's the fact that the government is increasing its intervention into every facet of our life?

 

[avatarftw]

I just don't want to deal with insurance hassles...one of the doctors in my family tells me how it really is....insurance companies deny about 15-30% of claims the first time (they just deny a certain percentage regardless of if the coding is done right) then deny less if you submit claims a second time. Finally, the third time is the charm. 🙂

Heck, the doctor has to hire a company to do the medical billing; he loses 8-10% of revenue just for billing!

I just think that insurance should only be used for serious, extremely expensive procedures, not office visits. If you really save your money you (most people) can afford a simple visit to the PCP. (although some waste money on cigarettes, alcohol, really nice phones, etc)

So a system similar to healthcare insurance where you pay in advance in case your luck runs sour?

 

[Depakote]

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."
Pastor Martin Niemoller's poem is as true today as it was when he wrote it over 50 years ago. When will we speak out over a government that wants to silence physicians, insurers and the US Chamber of Commerce? Will it be after these "reforms" effect you? Or will you choose not to be a slave to big government? Americans can no longer stand the increased intervention of the government in our daily affairs, now is the time to let the government know that we are tired of this. We have a choice do we want to be Boxer from Animal Farm or Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged. The choice is ours.

did you just compare healthcare reform to the holocaust?

 

[loveoforganic]

Hey, maybe it's the fact that the government is increasing its intervention into every facet of our life?

The government, which consists of citizens the populace put in the position of power. Out of curiosity, which services do you feel should be provided by the government?

did you just compare healthcare reform to the holocaust?

Indirectly 👍

 

[xmsr3]

good god people, PLEASE VOTE! We have 43 replies but only 19 votes! 420 views but only 19 votes! The greater the sample size the better we can compare people's opinion of the public option between different demographics on SDN, but we need people to vote!

To anyone who reads this thread, PLEASE VOTE! Let your voice be heard and your opinion be counted!

 

[FutureCTDoc]

The government, which consists of citizens the populace put in the position of power. Out of curiosity, which services do you feel should be provided by the government?



Indirectly 👍

Which services? How about the administration of justice and of protection (i.e. police and military) I'm a big fan of Robert Nozick's work Anarchy, State and Utopia. Perhaps you should read it.

 

[loveoforganic]

So no interstates?

 

[FutureCTDoc]

No. In fact prior to the US interstate system people used privately held railroads and in other places privately held toll road have succeeded.

 

[loveoforganic]

And navigation/travel was a whole lot easier/more efficient 🙄

 

[FutureCTDoc]

The fastest way to get from coast to coast is the airlines, which are private.

 

[PetitAllegro]

The fastest way to get from coast to coast is the airlines, which are private.

I'm pretty sure that's because airplanes are faster than cars.