Where NOT to apply? (danger programs)

[fgh123]

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I'm applying in psych beginning this fall. I am couples matching with my husband who is doing something ridiculously competitive. Basically he was advised to apply everywhere, but we're trying to trim down that list a little so we aren't spending tons of money to apply to places we would never want to go anyway (we're more concerned with quality of programs than cities). I have a good feel of where I want to apply in the bigger cities, but for many smaller cities I know nothing about the programs. Could anyone please tell me which of these programs you wouldn't recommend applying to based on the quality of the programs? Please feel free to speak up if any of these programs are particularly good, also. If it helps I am interested in academics and fellowship (though not sure in what, yet).

You can PM me as well, if you're more comfortable doing that.

Alabama
Arizona
Georgetown
George Washington
U of Florida
Jackson (Miami)
U of S Florida
U of Iowa
Kansas
U of Louisville
U of Kentucky
Wash U
Mississippi
Nebraska
SUNY Upstate
U at Buffalo
Cincinnati
Ohio State
Oklahoma
UTMB Galveston
Baylor
UT San Antonio
Med College of Wisconsin

I appreciate any help!

 

[Chimed]

If you can, I might advice just applying to as many programs as possible and then seeing what interviews you get. I know that doesn't answer your question; but if your spouse is applying to that competitive of a speciality, you might want to apply as broadly as possible and narrow your list then.

My spouse and I couple's matched and we applied to a crap load of programs. Granted my spouses's speciality was in the "upper mid range" for competitiveness, but we didn't get several interviews because my spouse's speciality was more competitive.

 

[peppy]

None of the programs you mentioned strike me as being particularly malignant or terrible places. I really think the "good" vs "bad" is often subjective in programs though. No program is perfect, and people value different things in a program. Not everyone would be happy even at Harvard. And I would encourage you to weigh the location question as well, because it's not like you'll be working ALL the time. It also makes things easier after graduation if you train in a location where you can see yourself settling down. Particularly since psychiatry laws can vary from one county/state to the next, so you have to relearn the system when you move elsewhere.

My thoughts on a few of those progs:
WashU - great if you are interested in a biological/evidence based approach. Not good if you're very interested in long-term touchy/feely psychotherapy stuff. My perception is that it's not a particularly "warm and fuzzy" environment.
SUNY Upstate - great psychotherapy training, nice location for families. Even though you said you don't care about the geography, I think that the consensus on this site was that the geographic location of Syracuse is the program's one major downside.
Cincy - a very well-respected program with their own psych ER. The main downside is that it seemed like they had more call than most other psych programs (though I don't know how they will change things for the duty hour changes). Again, I think the city leaves a lot to be desired, though Graeter's ice cream is amazing.
MCW - a good program with their own psychotherapy center and psych ER. Yet again, I think the main issue is that not everyone likes the long winters or the rust belt feel of the city.
Baylor - Certainly a "name" program, but they have a reputation of being quite intense and making residents work hard. Some people might find that off-putting, while others may thrive on pressure.

 

[Cinnameg]

If you can, I might advice just applying to as many programs as possible and then seeing what interviews you get. I know that doesn't answer your question; but if your spouse is applying to that competitive of a speciality, you might want to apply as broadly as possible and narrow your list then.

My spouse and I couple's matched and we applied to a crap load of programs. Granted my spouses's speciality was in the "upper mid range" for competitiveness, but we didn't get several interviews because my spouse's speciality was more competitive.

I second this advice. You should apply via ERAS to as many places as you can afford -- and compared to flying out to interviews, an extra 10 ERAS applications are very cheap. So, make your "trimming down" decisions when you know where you've been invited and when the next step (an interview) is truly expensive. You will not be able to accurately predict where you'll get interview invitations.

 

[whopper]

Cincy - a very well-respected program with their own psych ER. The main downside is that it seemed like they had more call than most other psych programs (though I don't know how they will change things for the duty hour changes). Again, I think the city leaves a lot to be desired, though Graeter's ice cream is amazing.

I did my fellowship there but had little exposure to the program because the forensic fellowship had little contact with general psychiatry. I'm currently in the area.

From what I've gathered, the pros are
1) Solid research-a bunch of notables are in the area such as Nasrallah and Keck, both are good teachers not just notables that hate being with students. Nasrallah in particular does actually spend time teaching with residents in small group manner after grand rounds.
2)Good academic rep (if you want to go into academia). U of C. certainly isn't a namebrand all-around in terms of every area of academia but the psychiatry dept is solid and worthy of respect. Kinda like U of San Diego is in forensic psychiatry. IF you're actually in the field, you know it's a top program, but people outside the field don't know this. (correction, the program I meant to write is UC Davis--not San Diego.)
3) Very good clinical exposure in all areas: psyche ER, inpatient, VA hospital, short term facility, long term facility, rural and city patients, mental health court, fellowships in several areas of psychiatry, a triple-board program.
4) Exceptional clinical oppurtunities: E.g. the Lindner Institute (a high ranked psychiatric facility) is in the area and it has TMS, a high end forensic facility also in the area, several community mental health centers actually give out DBT instead of just talking about it.

But yes, your other assertions are also correct. Cincinnati, while not being a bad city, certainly isn't a city you go to for the city if you have your pick of the entire country. Winters are grey and dreary though not terribly extended (about 2-3 months of grey weather).

The city does have some appeal. You can get a lot of nice things you'd expect in a city (culture, high-end restaurants) while avoiding some of the big city chaos. I don't have to be trapped in a 3 hr traffic jam, instead it's usually a 20 minute delay. Graeter's ice cream, Skyline chili, a smaller city appeal, people are more down to earth, etc. I don't remember the specifics of the call schedule but I remember a buddy of mine who went through it telling me and I was thinking "oh geez, thank god mine wasn't as tough as that!"

 

[myPsychAlt]

I'm applying in psych beginning this fall. I am couples matching with my husband who is doing something ridiculously competitive. Basically he was advised to apply everywhere, but we're trying to trim down that list a little so we aren't spending tons of money to apply to places we would never want to go anyway (we're more concerned with quality of programs than cities). I have a good feel of where I want to apply in the bigger cities, but for many smaller cities I know nothing about the programs. Could anyone please tell me which of these programs you wouldn't recommend applying to based on the quality of the programs? Please feel free to speak up if any of these programs are particularly good, also. If it helps I am interested in academics and fellowship (though not sure in what, yet).

You can PM me as well, if you're more comfortable doing that.

Alabama
Arizona
Georgetown
George Washington
U of Florida
Jackson (Miami)
U of S Florida
U of Iowa
Kansas
U of Louisville
U of Kentucky
Wash U
Mississippi
Nebraska
SUNY Upstate
U at Buffalo
Cincinnati
Ohio State
Oklahoma
UTMB Galveston
Baylor
UT San Antonio
Med College of Wisconsin

I appreciate any help!

Your list manages to have a lot of geographic overlap with mine, but not a single program I actually interviewed at.

 

[fgh123]

I really appreciate all of the input-especially the good comments about places that I might have overlooked.

While I agree that it's probably better to play it safe and apply more broadly, I'm hoping that we will be at a place by the fall where we can comfortably eliminate about 10 programs. We have a list of 80 programs for the husband and 60 for me. At $25 per program, eliminating 10 places would save us $750 (10 psych, 10 husband's categorical, and 10 prelim programs). If we can selectively eliminate places we wouldn't be happy anyway, even better.

 

[Red Beard]

I really appreciate all of the input-especially the good comments about places that I might have overlooked.

While I agree that it's probably better to play it safe and apply more broadly, I'm hoping that we will be at a place by the fall where we can comfortably eliminate about 10 programs. We have a list of 80 programs for the husband and 60 for me. At $25 per program, eliminating 10 places would save us $750 (10 psych, 10 husband's categorical, and 10 prelim programs). If we can selectively eliminate places we wouldn't be happy anyway, even better.

Not to judge you or anything, but if my wife and I were in your situation I wouldn't think twice about spending an extra $750 now vs. the potential $5-10k its going to cost to keep a 4 year long distance marriage together if you don't end up matching in the same place.