Where will you be in 5 years? ...10 years?

[Jason K]

Ok, there's been a lot of talk on this forum about optometry, its future, and what that future entails for ODs given the current state of our profession and the changes that are taking place. It's always a good idea to have a future goal in mind when you start a journey so, OD students and pre-optometry students:

Where do you think you'll be professionally, 5 years after graduation?.....10 years after graduation?

How do you think the changes that are taking place now are going to affect your career and the profession long term?

Just trying to get people thinking......

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[Jason K]

Just trying to get people thinking......

Jeez, people....over 70 of you have read this and no one has been able to come up with an answer to the question? What are you guys afraid of? It's a simple question! 🙄

Maybe I'll ask it in a different way;

1) "What kind of optometry do you want to be practicing 5 years out?... 10 years out?

2) And given the changes that are going on right now in the profession, how do you think your goals will be impacted?

These are simple questions with no right/wrong answer. As someone who's interviewed about a billion OD candidates, I can tell you that at least some of you will have to answer these questions in your interviews - you might as well start now! 😀

 

[epalacios]

Well, I'm planning on getting my interview soon...so I'll take a stab at it.
Five years after graduation, I hope to be working with an established private practice, getting the experience I need to start my own practice. Ten years after graduation, I hope to have my own successful private practice.

From what I've read, most of changes coming affect scope of practice. Ophthalmologists are up in arms, thinking that OD's should not be performing "surgeries" (the recent events in Kentucky, for instance allowing optometrists to perform certain injections and laser procedures). I certainly will go for any certifications that my state allows, and will stay actively involved in pushing to maximize my scope of practice, but I won't let it discourage me from pursuing this degree. I wanted to be optometrist way back when I thought all they did was sell glasses and contacts!

 

[KHE]

Ok...that's great!

But that's the goal of just about everyone entering school, isn't it? Work in a nice private practice. Own a nice private practice.

The question then becomes....what steps have you taken and what steps are you going to take to ensure that that is the career path you end up on?

 

[Jason K]

I think it is impossible to say anything before the time.

Lame!😀

 

[Jason K]

Well, I'm planning on getting my interview soon...so I'll take a stab at it.
Five years after graduation, I hope to be working with an established private practice, getting the experience I need to start my own practice. Ten years after graduation, I hope to have my own successful private practice.

From what I've read, most of changes coming affect scope of practice. Ophthalmologists are up in arms, thinking that OD's should not be performing "surgeries" (the recent events in Kentucky, for instance allowing optometrists to perform certain injections and laser procedures). I certainly will go for any certifications that my state allows, and will stay actively involved in pushing to maximize my scope of practice, but I won't let it discourage me from pursuing this degree. I wanted to be optometrist way back when I thought all they did was sell glasses and contacts!

epalacios, thanks for being the only brave soul on this forum to actually take a swing at this! Actually, OD scope is a minor "side issue" affecting the profession right now. It gets a lot of press, but it's not something that practicing ODs worry about, except for the ones pushing the issue. The odds of ophthalmology ever retracting OD scope are extremely low. That doesn't mean that ODs can be complacent about it, but truthfully, scope will not have any serious effect on your future plans. The stuff that will stand in the way of your goals to own your own office or start your own practice are more related to other trends going on; excessive numbers of ODs with an ever-increasing quantities on the way, tuition costs that make it difficult for new grads to finance an office purchase, declining reimbursements for ODs, online glasses sales competing with private practice sales, and the ever-shrinking private practice : commercial practice ratio. That's the stuff you should be focusing on - don't worry about scope!

What I'm getting at is pretty much what KHE asked; what are you doing to move towards your goals? I'll add one more; will you be unhappy if you get through school and you discover that you won't be able to reach your goals? Will you be happy in the mode of practice that most new ODs are entering right now, commercial practice?

 

[Shnurek]

Keeping my loans minimal to nonexistent. Living with parents for first 2 years. I'd like to do an ocular disease residency in OK if I can get in just to be over-trained. Maybe I'll stay there if I really enjoy it. Then come back to work in New Jersey or another open-OD state or work for an accepting OMD. Who knows what the future will bring. My #1 goal is to keep my loans below ~30k when I graduate.

 

[Jason K]

Keeping my loans minimal to nonexistent. Living with parents for first 2 years. I'd like to do an ocular disease residency in OK if I can get in just to be over-trained. Maybe I'll stay there if I really enjoy it. Then come back to work in New Jersey or another open-OD state or work for an accepting OMD. Who knows what the future will bring. My #1 goal is to keep my loans below ~30k when I graduate.

If you can keep your loans below 30K, my hat will come off for you. What do you mean by "open-OD states?"

 

[Shnurek]

If you can keep your loans below 30K, my hat will come off for you. What do you mean by "open-OD states?"

I have a lot of savings from working many summers and I took a year off to work for an OMD pulling in almost $20 an hour 😀 Open-OD I meant as in less restrictive laws governing optometric practice. New Jersey is very lax, they have many orals and ability to rx future CL's with drugs in them as compared to New York where no orals are allowed and limited topicals, or Pennsylvania which is like in the middle with their limited orals. Also many other differences such as what a technician for an OMD or OD can do or other procedures an OD can do such as punctal plugs or types of glaucoma they can treat and for how long etc. etc.

 

[Shnurek]

I realize that I am nowhere near the norm. How competitive are ocular disease residencies? Do they value your didactic grades more or your clinicals when selecting for residencies?

 

[abjs1111]

I think that this is a legit question to pose for us pre-opt people, so I wanna answer but just keep in mind that I am also aware that I have ALOT to learn, about optometry, life and myself so obviously I know that I have no clue what will be best for me in 9 or 14 years from now.

1) 5 years after graduating, I hope I am just as pumped about optometry as I am right now. Hopefully I am still actively involved with public health organizations, making an impact via preventative medicine. I see myself living comfortably, starting a family and having a job that allows me to help people(especially kids) everyday. I want to specialize in pediatric vision therapy so I think I will be in an area where there is a demand for this and do regular eye exams as well. I have no desire to own a practice.

10 years after graduating, ditto to 5 years. I also plan on getting my MS in opt school so maybe if I feel the need for a change I will teach for a bit or maybe even research.

2) I think that the challenges in optometry will definitely impact my future, possibly making it difficult to find a private setting that will take in a newly graduated OD. However, personally I know that I am willing to work hard. Really, really hard and I honestly think that I will get where I want to and be very happy even along all the bumps in the road, it has worked for me so far at least(and i have definitely had my fair share of bumps in the road). I think that it would be hard to find a profession that isn't facing challenges anyways, so I might as well do something that I really love and take my chances on success.

 

[Jason K]

I think that this is a legit question to pose for us pre-opt people, so I wanna answer but just keep in mind that I am also aware that I have ALOT to learn, about optometry, life and myself so obviously I know that I have no clue what will be best for me in 9 or 14 years from now.

1) 5 years after graduating, I hope I am just as pumped about optometry as I am right now. Hopefully I am still actively involved with public health organizations, making an impact via preventative medicine. I see myself living comfortably, starting a family and having a job that allows me to help people(especially kids) everyday. I want to specialize in pediatric vision therapy so I think I will be in an area where there is a demand for this and do regular eye exams as well. I have no desire to own a practice.

10 years after graduating, ditto to 5 years. I also plan on getting my MS in opt school so maybe if I feel the need for a change I will teach for a bit or maybe even research.

2) I think that the challenges in optometry will definitely impact my future, possibly making it difficult to find a private setting that will take in a newly graduated OD. However, personally I know that I am willing to work hard. Really, really hard and I honestly think that I will get where I want to and be very happy even along all the bumps in the road, it has worked for me so far at least(and i have definitely had my fair share of bumps in the road). I think that it would be hard to find a profession that isn't facing challenges anyways, so I might as well do something that I really love and take my chances on success.

abjs1111, you sound a lot more level-headed and knowledgeable than most of the preoptometry students on this forum. If you do your own research and conclude that your goals are realistic and attainable given the state of optometry, then go for it. Figure out how much your OD will cost you, and how much you'll likely be making for the first 5-10 years out. Decide what living comfortably means to you. Most newer grads who took out student loans to pay for their ODs have monthly student loan payments in the 1000K to 1500K per month range. That comes off the top every month before anything else. If you're making 70K/year, you can quickly arrive at an income of about 50K/year once your student loans are accounted for. Most students, and this goes for any students who borrow for their education, don't give enough thought to how much the degree will cost after graduation and how much that cost will impact their finances. I should also tell you that if you came out of school right now and landed a full-time associateship for 70K/year in the region that WesternU is located, you'd be the envy of anyone else in your class.

Just have a clear idea in mind for what you will be "ok" with and what you will not be "ok" with regarding practice modes. Also get a clear picture of how comfortable you'll be given the income level that you're likely to get after you graduate. If you do that, you won't be surprised by what comes down the road.

 

[Jason K]

I realize that I am nowhere near the norm. How competitive are ocular disease residencies? Do they value your didactic grades more or your clinicals when selecting for residencies?

Ocular disease residencies are fairly competitive, but if you do reasonably well academically and you have solid clinical skills, you'll get one somewhere. You might not get the exact VA or Hospital that you have your heart set on, but you'll get something. As far as what's looked for more closely? Clinical skills and recommendations from your preceptors. If you're a solid B+ student with some occasional As and you have very strong recommendations backing your clinical decision-making and exam skills, you'll have no trouble edging out the guy who got a 740 on his boards, but can't hold a conversation with the admission committee. There's nothing more frightening to a residency committee than a person with stellar academics, incredible board scores, and vague clinical recommendations.....except maybe for the person with crappy academics, horrible board scores, and vague clinical recommendations. The latter usually don't apply for residencies, though.

 

[Judgment Dragon]

Ocular disease residencies are fairly competitive, but if you do reasonably well academically and you have solid clinical skills, you'll get one somewhere. You might not get the exact VA or Hospital that you have your heart set on, but you'll get something. As far as what's looked for more closely? Clinical skills and recommendations from your preceptors. If you're a solid B+ student with some occasional As and you have very strong recommendations backing your clinical decision-making and exam skills, you'll have no trouble edging out the guy who got a 740 on his boards, but can't hold a conversation with the admission committee. There's nothing more frightening to a residency committee than a person with stellar academics, incredible board scores, and vague clinical recommendations.....except maybe for the person with crappy academics, horrible board scores, and vague clinical recommendations. The latter usually don't apply for residencies, though.

How does competition for residencies actually work? My question applies to other health professions as well. Does it all lie in letters of recommendation, test scores, grades? 😕

 

[agreenawalt]

I think that Jason K is right - as pre-optometry students, we really have to be prepared to answer these questions. It is not an attack on our choice to pursue a career in optometry, but merely seeing how realistic and prepared we are. So I guess I will take a stab at it too, as I hope to be interviewing soon.

1) 5 years after graduation: I have shadowed with an optometrist who was 4-5 years out of school, and while he was working, he mentioned he has not yet been able to buy his way into a practice, since that takes time and money. Coming from a lower-income family, I have worked multiple jobs most of my life, so I can relate and understand the necessity of doing as he had to do, and working at 2-3 different offices on a part-time basis. While many students would find this discouraging, as I think most of us dream we will walk right into a private practice from graduating, I am used to this lifestyle, and do not find it discouraging.
In 10 years after graduation: hopefully by this time, I will be getting into, or preparing to join a group practice of some variety. Perhaps one of the offices where I have been working part-time. At this time, I hope I still love optometry, and am as excited about it as I currently am. I understand there will always be difficulties in any field, especially any healthcare profession at the moment, but I think if you are willing to work hard to obtain what you want (even if you can't get it right away) and love what you do, that can be counted as happiness 🙂

2) As far as the challenges facing the field, as I mentioned above, finding a full-time employment position will probably get more difficult. However, I think that I have the patience to accept that these things take time. Of course, I understand many doctor's frustration at the fact that not only do you have living expenses, but also all sorts of debt from school to pay. To me, this means that perhaps I won't have the "doctor's lifestyle" that most people envision. But if I can accept that and enjoy my work, I think that is OK. To be honest, this is an area I need to research more, and if anyone else has any other thoughts about the future challenges we will face, I would love to hear about them.

Jason K, I really want to get into school and give a good interview - any suggestions or critiques you have for me would be much appreciated, whether positive or constructive criticism 🙂

 

[Jason K]

Jason K, I really want to get into school and give a good interview - any suggestions or critiques you have for me would be much appreciated, whether positive or constructive criticism 🙂

I'd say the best asset to have in an interview is a solid reason for entering the profession. You will get that question in any OD interview. I can't tell you how many people have no real answer to that question when they are asked. "I just really love the human visual system and find it fascinating" is not an answer that will win anyone over. There's no right or wrong way to convince a committee of your sincerity, you just have to be sincere. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is "BSing" you.

Aside from that, try not to be overly nervous. A little is fine, a lot is alarming and sends up red flags. Make sure you look people in the eye when you answer their questions. Engage in conversation and don't just answer questions like you're in a lie detector test or on the stand or something. Just be yourself. A lot of people try to be someone they're not when in an interview and I've never understood that. Be prepared and you'll do fine. It's the ones who are not prepared that do poorly. Sounds like you're on the right track to a good interview already.

Lastly, ASK QUESTIONS! Make up a list of questions before you show up for the interview and ask them. You will be asked if you have any questions in any interview and it looks terrible when someone says "Well, I think you already answered all my questions."

 

[agreenawalt]

I'd say the best asset to have in an interview is a solid reason for entering the profession. You will get that question in any OD interview. I can't tell you how many people have no real answer to that question when they are asked. "I just really love the human visual system and find it fascinating" is not an answer that will win anyone over. There's no right or wrong way to convince a committee of your sincerity, 'you just have to be sincere. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is "BSing" you.

Aside from that, try not to be overly nervous. A little is fine, a lot is alarming and sends up red flags. Make sure you look people in the eye when you answer their questions. Engage in conversation and don't just answer questions like you're in a lie detector test or on the stand or something. Just be yourself. A lot of people try to be someone they're not when in an interview and I've never understood that. Be prepared and you'll do fine. It's the ones who are not prepared that do poorly. Sounds like you're on the right track to a good interview already.

Thank you for your advice! I appreciate it very much 🙂

 

[epalacios]

epalacios, thanks for being the only brave soul on this forum to actually take a swing at this! Actually, OD scope is a minor "side issue" affecting the profession right now. It gets a lot of press, but it's not something that practicing ODs worry about, except for the ones pushing the issue. The odds of ophthalmology ever retracting OD scope are extremely low. That doesn't mean that ODs can be complacent about it, but truthfully, scope will not have any serious effect on your future plans. The stuff that will stand in the way of your goals to own your own office or start your own practice are more related to other trends going on; excessive numbers of ODs with an ever-increasing quantities on the way, tuition costs that make it difficult for new grads to finance an office purchase, declining reimbursements for ODs, online glasses sales competing with private practice sales, and the ever-shrinking private practice : commercial practice ratio. That's the stuff you should be focusing on - don't worry about scope!

What I'm getting at is pretty much what KHE asked; what are you doing to move towards your goals? I'll add one more; will you be unhappy if you get through school and you discover that you won't be able to reach your goals? Will you be happy in the mode of practice that most new ODs are entering right now, commercial practice?

My only experience so far with OD's has been in the commercial setting, both as a patient and employment (I'm currently a licensed optician working for a large optical chain).

I understand that the view of big retail is largely negative, but my perspective has been positive. There are no start up costs, rent is fair, and the independent OD's have full control over their scope of practice. In addition to that, there is usually positive brand recognition, and reliable foot traffic.

While corporate retail may not be my first choice, I understand the benefits and would certainly consider it as a new grad if the numbers were right (good location, established patient base, etc.) I know of several OD's who are contracted with my company that are very successful, and have nothing but good things to say about their experience.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

Though I dont plan to enter optometry right away after undergrad, I will take a stab at this:

1) In the first 5 years, i envision myself working in academia, so research + clinic. I understand that starting is not that great, but i think working 4 days a week in such a place (i think this is standard from what i recently heard/ understand). Also spending a day or two in a private practice setting, whether it be with an omd or od. In 10 + years, As everyones long term goals probably are, ownership or part ownership in a private practice.

2) The state that I would like to practice in is probably not the best to practice optometry. However i hope atleast in the short term, some laws change (which would be a plus) that are standard in most other states. As far as over supply, definitely something to think about in terms of the extent of over supply. Of course, i dont really know what this really "means" beyond the obvious. I have never experienced the effects of over supply in this situation and wouldnt until it is time.

In terms of what steps i would take to ensure that this is the type of career path i would end up on...i would definitely do a residency if that helps (i would still do one if it didnt). For the "research" part of my career, i would try to find collaborators and come up with promising experiments/studies, especially ones that i would be able to get funding for. I think building this experience while I am in optometry school might make some types of difference when i graduate, and some ways i can do this is by presenting in vision expos, attending conferences and staying in the vision research loop.

I would try to often speak to different optometrists, especially those practicing in settings I find ideal for me. Hopefully this might open a few doors or atleast give me some good indication. I would try to establish connections, learn about insurance panels (ie how to get on medical ones and which ones to get) learn about the business aspects billing / coding etc...early on, things that would probably give me some edge as a "new" grad over others that graduate in my class.