Which job?

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NH2

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Which anesthesiologist job?

Job 1: $380k per year + $12k 401k match + $21k in medical/dental/vision/disability premiums.. Q5 home call, PC day off. 1000+ OB deliveries per year. No trauma. Working as employee for private practice. No partnership offer. 15 minutes from home

Job 2: $275k per year for 2 years, then partner. Partner averages around $400k per year, medical/dental/vision premiums fully paid by employer, employer maxes out 401k with $37k contribution. Everyone on track seems to make partner, including my previous co-resident who joined this group 4.5 years ago. Many surgery centers plus 1 big hospital and 1 small hospital. Big hospital 30 minutes away. In hospital call. 1500+ OB deliveries per year. Level 2 trauma. Call 3p-7a 5 weeknights per quarter (3 months). Weekend call split between 3 docs and 3 weekend calls per quarter.

I am 36 years old. 4.5 years out of residency
 
NH2 said:
Which anesthesiologist job?

Job 1: $380k per year + $12k 401k match + $21k in medical/dental/vision/disability premiums.. Q5 home call, PC day off. 1000+ OB deliveries per year. No trauma. Working as employee for private practice. No partnership offer. 15 minutes from home

Job 2: $275k per year for 2 years, then partner. Partner averages around $400k per year, medical/dental/vision premiums fully paid by employer, employer maxes out 401k with $37k contribution. Everyone on track seems to make partner, including my previous co-resident who joined this group 4.5 years ago. Many surgery centers plus 1 big hospital and 1 small hospital. Big hospital 30 minutes away. In hospital call. 1500+ OB deliveries per year. Level 2 trauma. Call 3p-7a 5 weeknights per quarter (3 months). Weekend call split between 3 docs and 3 weekend calls per quarter.

I am 36 years old. 4.5 years out of residency
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#2
 
May be a stupid question but are those bennies applied for those two years before you make partner or is that only after you make partner?
 
MirrorTodd said:
May be a stupid question but are those bennies applied for those two years before you make partner or is that only after you make partner?
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Full medical/dental/vision premiums covered by employer from the start. Maxing of 401k only for partner. Good question. I should’ve clarified
 
it all depends on your long term goals. do you want to own something? or do you want some other ***hole with an mba telling you that you need to do this-or-that **** all the time?

mine is the former, not the latter.

being a physician-employee sucks. you have zero control over your day to day and ultimately your career. it is for lazy-asses and mommy-trackers.
 
Agree #2.

And you have to adjust your thinking a little bit: in job #2 YOU are the “employer” (once partner of course).

Oh, and great to see you @VolatileAgent. Stick around.
 
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What’s your concern about #2?

I did sort of analysis for my other jobs. March out, 5, 10 years.

Seems like the call burden is much less with #2, no?
 
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#2

As SaltyDog and VolitaleAgent said with the second one you are the employer and, therefore, have control of your career. That in itself is worth a ton. When you are an employee someone else controls your job.
 
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IMGASMD said:
What’s your concern about #2?

I did sort of analysis for my other jobs. March out, 5, 10 years.

Seems like the call burden is much less with #2, no?
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Financially with benefits considered, #2 passes #1 after about 8 years. Yes, #2 has less call, but also fewer post call days....# 1 has the shorter commute. I’d say the biggest benefit of #1 is that if I leave at any point for greener pastures, I won’t feel as though I lost a lot by working for 2 years at a reduced salary of 275.
 
NH2 said:
Financially with benefits considered, #2 passes #1 after about 8 years. Yes, #2 has less call, but also fewer post call days....# 1 has the shorter commute. I’d say the biggest benefit of #1 is that if I leave at any point for greener pastures, I won’t feel as though I lost a lot by working for 2 years at a reduced salary of 275.
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Any kids? Family obligations? For #2, can you take more calls?

Asking if it’s a job that you can “grow” into as well. As I am sure you’re also aware, when you’re in your 50s or early 60s, you may not want calls.

Or as your kids growing up, you may want to attend a few soccers games, rather than q5 and can only make 1/3 recitals.

But in general, I agree with the rest, #2 is better for me. Don’t like the idea being an employee forever. But I’ve met a few people really like being employees too. No drama... show up and work, no worries.
 
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Number 2 seems like the best choice. As far as 401k both would most likely be the same. 2 years safe harbor contribution of $12,000 and then after 2 years it appears you arrive at the match. I am not an expert on the matter but you may want to ask what happens after 2 years in option 1. Legally I think you have to be on the same matching schedule as others in the group.

I do know that legally option 2 would have to give you a safe harbor contribution your first two years, which is typically I believe 3% of your total income.
 
You all have made some great points. I’ll go with 2.
 
#2 far and away. I'm 3 years into an AMC job and want nothing more than to at least have some say in my future.

That is VERY low call burden. I'd imagine you'll have opportunity to pick up extra or come in early on call days for $$$.

Also, no group is perfect, and there are things you can't see from the outside. The fact you have someone you know and (hopefully) trust already there makes it that much better.
 
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What's the vacation like?

Doing your own cases or supervising?

How do you value the 2 locations as far as quality of life and access to amenities/airports etc?
 
abolt18 said:
What's the vacation like?

Doing your own cases or supervising?

How do you value the 2 locations as far as quality of life and access to amenities/airports etc?
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I didn’t mention the vacations because both are 7 weeks. Both are mostly supervising.
 
dabears505 said:
I'm glad you are 36 years old.

I'm 35 years old, I am divorced, and I live in a van down by the river!
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I am also divorced with 2 preschool kids. One of the pluses of #2 is less child support payments for 2 years
 
I'm glad you are 36 years old.

I'm 35 years old, I am divorced, and I live in a van down by the river!
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I am also divorced with 2 preschool kids. One of the pluses of #2 is less child support payments for 2 years





 
How is it that you aren't making a ton more if you are supervising? 400 as a partner in a supervision practice? Am I missing something? That is less than mgma average and less than md only practices with a crappy unit rate.
 
GassYous said:
How is it that you aren't making a ton more if you are supervising? 400 as a partner in a supervision practice? Am I missing something? That is less than mgma average and less than md only practices with a crappy unit rate.
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I asked myself the same question. I think part of it is that the hospital doesn’t have the best payor population and part of it is that basically everyone in this group is either partner or on partnership track (i.e few non partners to do the work to generate revenue for the partners). They have a bunch of surgery centers. Perhaps that pays less than hospitals (but that’s what allows the group to have such a low call burden). That’s my speculation. Also, we are in a major metropolitan area in the northeast that starts with P and ends with Go eagles!
 
NH2 said:
I asked myself the same question. I think part of it is that the hospital doesn’t have the best payor population and part of it is that basically everyone in this group is either partner or on partnership track (i.e few non partners to do the work to generate revenue for the partners). They have a bunch of surgery centers. Perhaps that pays less than hospitals (but that’s what allows the group to have such a low call burden). That’s my speculation. Also, we are in a major metropolitan area in the northeast that starts with P and ends with Go eagles!
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2. But if you're supervision you should be making more than that. Wonder if there's some sort of bonus structure among the partners? Benefits are good. Call isn't burdensome. Ever doing your own cases? Supervision is 2:1 or 3:1 sometimes or are you always 4:1? If the latter that's tough, gets to be a grind, and 400 isn't enough even with light call. That doesn't make 2 a worse job, just an observation.

I wouldn't take job 1 as an employee, under any circumstance, I guess unless that's the only job in town that I could get.
 
GassYous said:
How is it that you aren't making a ton more if you are supervising? 400 as a partner in a supervision practice? Am I missing something? That is less than mgma average and less than md only practices with a crappy unit rate.
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I'd classify a crappy unit rate as what, $35/unit? To get to 400 that'd be a little over 11k units a month. That isn't terribly difficult if there's consistent volume to support that, unless you take time off one month. But 400 1099 isn't equivalent to the 400 W2 he's talking about. You'd need 460 or so 1099 to equate to job 2 I think, and that works out to a little over 1300 units a month. IMO that's tough UNLESS you're cardiac heavy. I'd rather have job 2 than that.

But I completely agree with you that 400 isn't enough for supervision. Unless they're always like 1:2 all the time, which would be boring and pointless.
 
Southpaw said:
I'd classify a crappy unit rate as what, $35/unit? To get to 400 that'd be a little over 11k units a month. That isn't terribly difficult if there's consistent volume to support that, unless you take time off one month. But 400 1099 isn't equivalent to the 400 W2 he's talking about. You'd need 460 or so 1099 to equate to job 2 I think, and that works out to a little over 1300 units a month. IMO that's tough UNLESS you're cardiac heavy. I'd rather have job 2 than that.

But I completely agree with you that 400 isn't enough for supervision. Unless they're always like 1:2 all the time, which would be boring and pointless.
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Both are w2. I think it’s mostly supervision at the hospitals. Probably staffing 2-3 rooms. In some of surgery centers with 1 or 2 POS, I think they’ll often staff it with solo docs.
 
NH2 said:
I asked myself the same question. I think part of it is that the hospital doesn’t have the best payor population and part of it is that basically everyone in this group is either partner or on partnership track (i.e few non partners to do the work to generate revenue for the partners). They have a bunch of surgery centers. Perhaps that pays less than hospitals (but that’s what allows the group to have such a low call burden). That’s my speculation. Also, we are in a major metropolitan area in the northeast that starts with P and ends with Go eagles!
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Go Eagles!!!! Philly!!!
Just need to get that out of my system too.
 
I suspect the group in job 2 collects $35 per unit without a subsidy. That would explain the salaries. Also, do the CRNAs earn a base salary of $195K plus benefits? Overtime for CRNAs? That group may have high CRNA Costs as well.
 
BLADEMDA said:
I suspect the group in job 2 collects $35 per unit without a subsidy. That would explain the salaries. Also, do the CRNAs earn a base salary of $195K plus benefits? Overtime for CRNAs? That group may have high CRNA Costs as well.
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They have Srnas
 
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